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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Roman Catholic tourists in CofE church
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
The church I currently attend is near Victoria and we get tourists at most services. Quite often, when I am on welcoming duty, a tourist (usually Italian) will ask if they can receive Communion. On one level, this is easy: if they can receive in their own church, they can receive here. I feel, however, that it is not fair just to say that, without explaining that, from their church's point of view, they should not. The problem is that my Italian is non-existent and their English generally fairly basic.
Can shipmates come up with an easy way to get this across or am I being too nice? Should I assume that, if it was really important to them, they would have done their research beforehand?
(There is a Roman Catholic church nearby, but it is on a side road and not as obvious as ours, on a prominent corner.)
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
If they are bothering to ask if it's OK to receive, then they are probably aware that you are not a RC church so they are most likely concerned that they won't be breaking any of your rules.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Vetus Organorum
Apprentice
# 17990
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Posted
I agree with Spike. As a RC (convert) I know what my church teaches. I do, however, also believe that Communion is equally valid when the Eucharist is offered by another faith community. I do not think God discriminates. My answer to the gentleman would be "yes you may." I might add that on more than one occasion, I was offered the sacrament in a RC church where the priest knew I was not a RC.
Posts: 5 | From: St. Louis, MO | Registered: Jan 2014
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Yes, agree with Spike: they know all about the RC church's attitude towards other denominations.
Its another issue on which the laity of the RC church is light years ahead of its priesthood: RC friend says gap is only widening in Europe where, as majority laity get more liberal young men in seminaries become more old-fashioned and reactionary.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I would tend to agree - they are asking what your customs are, so that is what you should tell them. It is not up to you to enforce Roman Catholic rules on the matter!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
As an aside, well done to JoannaP for taking her welcoming duties so seriously!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
I would tend to agree - they are asking what your customs are, so that is what you should tell them. It is not up to you to enforce Roman Catholic rules on the matter!
Agreed. You can't be expected to enforce their rules, particularly when many RC priests in England regularly flout them.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
Seconded, Bishop's Finger.
I don't know whether Joanna's church is from the Catholic tradition in the CofE, but if not it might be worth saying something like, "We are Protestants, but yes, you're welcome." Italians all understand "Protestanti", even in English - in Italian, "Siamo protestanti, e siete invitati" (we are protestant and you are welcome to [receive]) would do the trick. It would remove any doubt about whether they knew the church wasn't RC whilst still making them seem welcome.
Even if the chuch in question doesn't self-describe as protestant don't read too much into using that word - Italians just think means not Roman Catholic.
As Catholics, they have a duty to know they shouldn't receive, but that doesn't equate to Anglicans having a duty to catechise them on the spot. I think your obligation ends with trying to make sure the visitors know the church isn't RC. After that, it's up to them.
Anyway, thank you for caring, Joanna!
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
As Chaplain of an Anglican school I was once berated by an RC parent for welcoming all Christians to Communion. He wanted me to add an explanation of RC teaching to my welcome; I declined as politely as I could.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
Thank you very much for all your replies. Our church is very much in the Catholic tradition and a couple of regular members of the congregation are Roman Catholics who prefer the liturgy to that of the RC church. Indeed I remember one French lady who was moved to tears by the beauty of the service. I do not regard Anglicans as Protestant (one thing Ken and I never saw eye to eye on), but I accept that we are according to Italians - the couple last Sunday just looked blank when I said "Anglican".
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
I do not regard Anglicans as Protestant (one thing Ken and I never saw eye to eye on), but I accept that we are according to Italians - the couple last Sunday just looked blank when I said "Anglican".
As an ex-RC, my family has always split the world into two groups - Catholics and Protestants. If you aren't a Catholic, then you are a Protestant, is the logic (the Orthodox may get this dichotomy confused). So whatever your self-description, I'm afraid you might have to call yourself 'Protestant' to explain yourself to visiting non-Anglophone Catholics.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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DangerousDeacon
Shipmate
# 10582
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Posted
Similar issues arise for us: we are in a fairly prominent position in a city with many tourists. Clearly the word "Anglican" means fairly little to the non-Anglophones.
If I think they are RC, then I give them directions to St Mary's - but a little to my surprise, a number who are RC are still quite happy to worship with us. It is not my job to explain the RC position (which to give my RC colleagues their due, they seem to find fairly dubious); I simply explain that all are welcome in the Cathedral, and that they are welcome to take part in the Eucharist.
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'All the same, it may be that I am wrong; what I take for gold and diamonds may be only a little copper and glass.'
Posts: 506 | From: Top End | Registered: Oct 2005
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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320
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Posted
Several years ago I worshipped frequently at a City of London church to which people came from many miles around. The most dedicated had to be a Frenchman who came once a month from Paris on the Eurostar! The parish priest explained the Church of England's open communion policy to him, but that his parish priest in Paris might object. He chose to receive with us, and he was made most welcome. That's about the best anyone can do. One of the things I always loved about the Church of England was that welcome to the Lord's Table. Many Catholics share that hope, even though they're forbidden to live it.
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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Utrecht Catholic
Shipmate
# 14285
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Posted
When attending the Pentecost High Mass at St.James's Paddington this year,I learned that Catholics from Poland,Germany and France were found among the worshippers.
Therefore, I was not so surprised to hear that the intercessions were done in several languages.
Some of them told me that there was not much difference between this mass and the one in their home parishes.
Dutch R.C friends of mine,have told me many times,when being in an Anglophone country, they often attend mass in an Anglican Church.
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Robert Kennedy
Posts: 220 | From: Dordrecht | Registered: Nov 2008
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Utrecht Catholic
Shipmate
# 14285
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Posted
When attending the Pentecost High Mass at St.James's Paddington this year,I learned that Catholics from Poland,Germany and France were found among the worshippers.
Therefore, I was not so surprised to hear that the intercessions were done in several languages.
Some of them told me that there was not much difference between this mass and the one in their home parishes.
Dutch R.C friends of mine,have told me many times,when being in an Anglophone country, they often attend mass in an Anglican Church.
They often found the sermons and music much better.
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Robert Kennedy
Posts: 220 | From: Dordrecht | Registered: Nov 2008
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
It not surprising that there is not much difference between a CofE eucharist and a Catholic Mass,since in some Anglican churches there is a deliberate attempt to replicate the Catholic Mass.
There is,however,one important difference.The Anglican community is not in 'regular' communion with the wider Catholic church.The celebrant does not owe canonical obedience to the local Catholic bishop.
Sometimes indeed the celebrant will not accept the canonical authority of the local Anglican bishop either.
There is,however,one vitally important similarity.
Just like the Catholic celebrant and parishioners,
the Anglican celebrant and parishioners will owe allegiance to Jesus Christ and in the liturgy will
try to make him present in both Word and Sacrament to those who come to the church.
The worldwide Roman Catholic church,probably like the Anglican church, is a very broad church.In countries where the dominant culture is/has been 'catholic' Catholic Christians do not always see the need to defend every item of the Catholic faith.That is left to churchmen.Just as Anglicans abroad are often genuinely interested to see how other Christians worship ,Catholic visitors,particularly from other countries,are often genuinely impressed by Anglican worship.
In some Anglo Catholic churches there is a more exuberant and colourful worship style such as might more easily be found in Central European Catholic worship or indeed in the Catholic communities of traditional mould in the Netherlands or France.
Italians in general,whether they are assiduous or regular Mass goers or not,love to visit churches,particularly those which have religious art,which most Italians would easily recognise.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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