quote:

---

Originally posted by KevinL:
Amanda, no, but thank you for the link. I was specifically thinking of parishes that identify as English Use (so looking to Sarum more than the Tridentine form of the Mass) or as Prayerbook Catholic (prayerbook vs. missal and, well, I find this a bit harder to describe: the giveaway in my mind, though it isn't limited to prayerbook catholics and neither is it absolutely indicative, is cassocks and full anglican surplices on a celebrant).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KevinL:


LSK, that is a very interesting observation. Other than who has ordinary jurisdiction, is there significant differences between being Anglican Use under a diocesan bishop and being in the ordinariate?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Angloid:
I don't know what 'English Use' means in an American context.

---

Certain Anglican priests converting to Catholicism were given permission to celebrate mass using a rite based on the Book of Common Prayer with "Popish frills". See this MW report.

[ 23. January 2015, 17:13: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
 

---

Posted by Knopwood (# 11596) on :
 
"Prayer Book Catholic" in Canada tends to mean something different than in England. IME, it usually describes any Anglo-Catholic parish that uses the BCP as opposed to the BAS, which was something of a fault line in the movement here. I was once at the induction of a new priest who proclaimed his pleasure to be serving in a parish of the Prayer Book Catholic tradition. The next time I visited there, the prayer book introit psalm had been replaced with a Roman-style single verse and antiphon, and the Gospel procession with proclamation to the north.

For an American example, St John's in the Village in Baltimore has a substantial exposition of what English Use means to them. In Canada, the rector emeritus of St Thomas's Huron Street in Toronto stood in that tradition, but under his successor the rite is something of a house blend and incorporates a good deal more of Ritual Notes.

PD will no doubt have something to add. On an old computer I had saved an essay by him on "Anglican Use" (as he called it in an American context), but it seems not to have survived on my hard drive

[ 23. January 2015, 21:35: Message edited by: Knopwood ]
 

---

Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :
 
Does Christ Church, Bronxville, NY qualify?
 

---

Posted by KevinL (# 12481) on :
 
ldjjd, it seems to me that they would. all of this has been very interesting and edifying; my original question was for churches not in the ordinariate or under another Roman Catholic arrangement, but I have appreciated the breadth of the responses.
 

---

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Prayer Book Catholic here has much the same meaning as I gather in the US. Originally it meant 1662 BCP with very few, if any, changes or additions. It now means A Prayer Book for Australia (1995), and normally the Second Order for the Eucharist The only addition is to add the Agnus Dei, but then again almost everyone does that. For some reason, it was not included. Many A-C places will add an Angelus at the end.

There is a local variation. In a traditional low-church Sydney parish in the 50's, I grew up with a strict following of the 1662 BCP. That tradition has continued in many Sydney parishes, save that many would now use An Australian Prayer Book (1978). So we have Prayer Book Evangelicals.
 

---

Posted by sonata3 (# 13653) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by KevinL:
English Use or Prayerbook Catholic Parishes in the U.S. (hell, why don't we include Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand as well). Go!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KevinL:


LSK, that is a very interesting observation. Other than who has ordinary jurisdiction, is there significant differences between being Anglican Use under a diocesan bishop and being in the ordinariate?

---

Although I see that the topic here is not Anglican patrimony in the Roman Catholic Church, to answer KevinL's question, liturgically the remaining Anglican Use parishes operating under the Special Pastoral Provision for North America promulgated by the late Pope JPII use the Book of Divine Worship, which is essentially the 1979 BCP with the exception of the Eucharistic Prayers, which are all the EPs available in the Novus Ordo Missae.

By contrast, a more traditional and conservative liturgy has been developed for the national Ordinariates, closer to 1662 or 1928, but again with the Eucharistic Prayers coming from the Novus Ordo, though I assume the language of these has been conformed to the idiom of the traditional BCP lineage, i.e. Elizabethan style formal English. The Ordinariates are also allowed use of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass in Latin. I am not sure if they are authorised use of the Novus Ordo MIssae in its entirety, but I believe that in the (English) Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, the Ordinary stated an expectation that the Ordinariate liturgy was to be used for Sundays and principal feasts/solemnities, but that the Novus Ordo could be used for weekday ferial masses. It's a strange situation in England, where the Ordinariate clergy were largely using the Novus Ordo as C of E clergy before they swum, and now are having to use a far more BCP-based Eucharistic Rite that they never used when in the C of E. However, the rite was promulgated for all the Ordinariates worldwide, and elsewhere the former Anglican clergy were using more typically Anglican liturgies, and of course the laity were worshipping with these liturgies, in contrast to the Anglo-Papalist situation in England. Also, North American Anglican Use parishes that came into the Ordinariate had, of course, been using the BCP-derived Book of Divine Worship. The latter was, in fact, initially allowed in the various Ordinariates until their new common liturgy was completed. I don't know, but I suspect quite a few Ordinariate parishes may now be using the EF Latin Mass, though this largely defeats the notion of Anglican liturgical patrimony.
 

---

Posted by stonespring (# 15530) on :
 
The Ordinariate Parishes are still able to celebrate the Novus Ordo Missae rite in English as well as Latin, and they can celebrate the Extrordinary Form in Latin as well. The Ordinariate Use has all kinds of optional prayers, but the basic intention is to leave the door open either to a 1662-ish celebration though with a Roman Eucharistic Prayer and certain other Roman Mass texts missing from the 1662 prayer book added in their usual places; or an English Missal-esque type Mass that adds the Extraordinary form Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and Offertory Prayers in English to the Novus Ordo Mass. The rubrics in all cases are to be Novus Ordo but done in as Tridentine a style as possible (think Brompton Oratory, but with Anglican Patrimony ).
 

---

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :
 
Lietuvos writes:

quote:

---

I don't know, but I suspect quite a few Ordinariate parishes may now be using the EF Latin Mass, though this largely defeats the notion of Anglican liturgical patrimony.

---

© Ship of Fools 2016


UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0