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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Liturgy as a teaching tool.
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
I have been contemplating the effectiveness of liturgy as a teaching tool. Does a set liturgy, guided by a lectionary, provide the flexibility in dealing with issues that may arise? My initial response is no but I'm open to the possibility that I'm myopic in this regard.
I'll use an uncontroversial example. Suppose your congregation is being infiltrated by Sethain Gnosticism. I would imagine that the constant recitation of the creeds would help combat this false teaching It would seem that you are totally at the mercy of the lectionary when composing your homily and would be unable to bring to bear the appropriate Scripture to deal with any nonsense concerning demiurges and archons. Is the solution as simple as setting up a Bible study of some sort and hope that a critical mass of the congregation attend in order to stave off heresy?
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
While preaching on the readings/feast is certainly to be held up as the norm, I doubt that it's a hard and fast rule.
The combatting of a prevalent heresy seems the sort of thing tgat might legitimately call for a non-lectionary based sermon, although there's probably some link to be found.
If you feel that strongly about it you could always check the martyrology/synaxarion and see if there's a saint/observance on that day that isn't in the calendar but which might be a good way in for your intended sermon.
[ 19. January 2015, 07:33: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Adeodatus
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# 4992
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Posted
I'm very wary of the liturgy being "used" for anything, in the same way that I'm suspicious of any overtly didactic art. However, Aidan Kavanagh said something to the effect that while the liturgy didn't teach, it did offer a space in which to learn, and I'd agree with that.
The Church is a culture, and the liturgy is one of the most significant places (perhaps the most significant) in which we learn that culture. If we use the analogy of table manners, then the liturgy is the place in which we learn that Sethian Gnosticism is a slightly more serious matter than using the wrong fork.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
I think you've missed out a significant factor: in addition to a set liturgy and lectionary, there is also the liturgical year, which normally goes hand-in-hand with the other two. The liturgical year is a telling of the great mystery of salvation over the course of a year, with the great seasons of Christmas and Easter at the heart.
I can't imagine the heresy that could not be addressed through preaching on the liturgical year. In this case, you're talking about the doctrine of God in creation, which could absolutely be addressed through preaching on Christmas or Epiphany.
In my experience, it's enormously rare that the lectionary prevents you from preaching on a particular subject if it's especially relevant.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
I would have thought that the whole principle of liturgy -- that created things can be means of grace -- would be abhorrent to a Sethian Gnostic. If I thought that was infecting a congregation, I would renew my focus on the potential sanctity of the material which undergirds everything we do liturgically. You can't counter Gnosticism as purely an idea.
A good homily looks forward as well as back. Yes, it responds to the readings, but it also looks forward to the table and the dismissal. It would be in this looking forward that I think we'd most easily dismantle any S.G. tendencies.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Remember also that there is no rule that says one has to preach only on the lectionary texts. The liturgy also includes the Creed, various other pieces of liturgical material and if it is the Eucharist, the Communion. All of those also need explaining to people. They don't understand them without a bit of help. If one is talking of countering heresies, depending on the heresy, the Nicene Creed and/or the Eucharist can very fruitfully form the basis of teaching to counteract almost all, and possibly all, heresies.
Obviously Sethian Gnosticism isn't actually the issue you have in mind. Could you perhaps be a bit more specific of what the real one is?
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Matt Black
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# 2210
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Posted
In addition to the lectionary, there is also the text of the Eucharistic prayers, including the Prefaces, which contain 'snapshot accounts' of salvation history and other theology quite apart from the consecration of the elements.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
Thanks to everyone for their input so far. There is much to ruminate on.
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Obviously Sethian Gnosticism isn't actually the issue you have in mind. Could you perhaps be a bit more specific of what the real one is?
This is more than a fair question. Over the last few years I have been put in a position that has allowed me to be a major influence in the way that my congregation worships. Due in part to the Ship and also my working through some other issues I've become more knowledgeable about liturgy and the benefits of using a more structured approach.
I've slowly worked at organizing our worship to be more balanced and more in line with what I have come to understand to be the four major elements of worship-Gathering, Word, Table and Sending. In addition I've structured the sermons to align with the Revised Common Lectionary whenever possible. I have had to deviate from this course as issues have arisen that needed to be addressed. Since I'm not "constricted", for lack of a better word, to using a lectionary I've deviated when needed freely but I have wondered what I would do if this was not the case. I picked Sethian Gnosticism as an example because I wanted to avoid people arguing over the example itself instead of the OP. I hope that provides some context.
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Sadly, our Anglican parish has kicked the lectionary into touch ...
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
On what grounds, other than palpable insanity?
The last time something like that happened in a parish near to me, it was was because the new vicar, who had been appointed on the explicit understanding that the parish was (and intended to remain) a mixture (tense at times) of evangelical and "middle-of-the-road", turned out to be a member of Reform (a fact that he had carefully omitted to mention at any point in the appointment process).
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The value of structured Liturgy, and the use of the Lectionary, is that it avoids the repetition of pet subjects. It can also help to counter accusations of manipulation. If set texts are regularly chosen in order to hammer home a refutation of a particular viewpoint or event, then the preacher/ minister may well be using his powers abusively.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
@Oscar the Grouch:
He doesn't think the Lectionary 'works'. He'd rather have themed preaching seasons like they do in Baptist and other non-conformist churches.
Our local parish is very evangelical and quite light on liturgy and the Calendar ... it only observes the bare minimum it can get away with.
I remember the vicar explaining once that he was using plain - rather than coloured - candles for the Advent candles because 'the colours aren't in the Bible.'
I wanted to ask him why he was using a set of Advent candles at all in that case ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
It doesn't matter whether or not he thinks the lectionary 'works'. He's happy to take the stipend and the pension and the social status of being CofE so he should bloody well fall into line on basic CofE practice.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Unfortunately, such an attitude is common amongst many evangelical Anglican clergy - I've experienced it myself - particularly in areas where Anglicanism generally leans evangelical and so it's more normal in that area.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
My parish church is also the same. No lectionary, no vestments, no robed choir, no women priests, etc. And a very distinctive theology. Happily, I have a car.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
The value of structured Liturgy, and the use of the Lectionary, is that it avoids the repetition of pet subjects.
That is, of course, true. On the other hand, confining oneself to the Lectionary also means that there are large chunks of the Bible which never get read in worship, even less preached upon. (This latter point is especially true in those churches which only seem to use the Gospel passages as a basis for preaching).
quote:
It can also help to counter accusations of manipulation. If set texts are regularly chosen in order to hammer home a refutation of a particular viewpoint or event, then the preacher/ minister may well be using his powers abusively.
You are absolutely right - although (a) a Minister may not be being deliberately abusive, but unwittingly returning to his/her own particular "hobby horses" and (b) a Minister can abuse their congregation even through sermons based on the lectionary - although it is harder!
On the other hand, preaching sequentially through a Bible book may also exonerate the Minister from some of these charges, as one is simply "going on to the next section" - this also means one has to tackle some of the more difficult or obscure bits, simply for completeness! That may be a challenge to the preacher but may be beneficial to the congregation, who find themselves being asked to consider texts and issues which might otherwise have passed them by.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
He eschews clerical garb by and large too.
Is he ashamed of his Orders, then?
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I suspect he thinks that informal clothing makes him more "approachable" and reduces what he may see as a "false clerical dichotomy" between clergy and laity.
IMO this is more of a Baptist understanding of Ordination and Ministry than an Anglican one!
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Well, indeed! And there's nothing wrong with that- if you are a Baptist.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Trying to be a Christian community without ritual is like trying to communicate Christian theology using words of less than six letters: you dis-able yourselves by limiting your range of expression.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Well, indeed! And there's nothing wrong with that- if you are a Baptist.
Which was precisely the point I was trying to make: he's an Anglican, and should act like one!
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Trying to be a Christian community without ritual is like trying to communicate Christian theology using words of less than six letters: you dis-able yourselves by limiting your range of expression.
True, but even those communities which think they have no ritual (Baptists, Brethren, Quakers, Pentecostals) have in fact invented their own "non-ritualistic ritual". This, in itself, speaks volumes about their understanding of God.
Trouble is, most of them don't realise it!
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Well, indeed! And there's nothing wrong with that- if you are a Baptist.
Which was precisely the point I was trying to make: he's an Anglican, and should act like one!
Exactly!
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Certainly within the URC a minister dressed in non-clericals for worshipping is consciously making as much a statement about the nature of the ministry as one who wears an alb. Low does not mean non-symbolic and the absence of symbols can be as much a position statement as their presence.
Let me take you through a low church very deliberate liturgical teaching about communion. I once went to congregation where on communion sunday the elements was served from a table in the body of the church, not on the dais. I can hear muttering of "I did not think non-conformists went in altars in the nave". Well it wasn't. It was at the front and all of three feet off the dais. Just far enough off that the celebrant could serve from behind it without standing on the dais. If that has got you going "huh?", then it was that close because every other sunday it was on the dais with the bible open on it and the font alongside. The move off the dais for communion was deliberate. It was a liturgical statement being made about the nature of the Eucharist and its relationship to the worshipping community. What is more if you asked (or even if you did not) it was quite likely that a member of the congregation would inform you of this. It acted both as a teaching prompt and as a reminder to those that knew.
Non-Conformity has not got rid of ritual. We are human as much as anyone but it has stripped out of ritual a lot of the meaning and thereby becomes invisible, or removed from the symbolic process within worship. Ritual, however, never stays without meaning. Ritual that is determined by pragmatism becomes overlaid with theological, superstitious and communal meanings. The result is that someone decides what the ritual means whether that is cleric, congregation or the individual. The way that is done is complex and is subject to mutability between individuals.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
The value of structured Liturgy, and the use of the Lectionary, is that it avoids the repetition of pet subjects.
That is, of course, true. On the other hand, confining oneself to the Lectionary also means that there are large chunks of the Bible which never get read in worship, even less preached upon.
The only problem I see with that is that, IME, many non-lectionary churches tend to have a single reading of 3-4 verses each week, which serves as the "text for today". And perhaps a short extract from one of the sunnier psalms. I'm quite sure that any lectionary is going to cover many times as much of scripture as these places.
John
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Ritual, however, never stays without meaning. Ritual that is determined by pragmatism becomes overlaid with theological, superstitious and communal meanings.
Such as tying up the cat.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
The only problem I see with that is that, IME, many non-lectionary churches tend to have a single reading of 3-4 verses each week, which serves as the "text for today". And perhaps a short extract from one of the sunnier psalms. I'm quite sure that any lectionary is going to cover many times as much of scripture as these places.
All too true, I'm afraid.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
It doesn't matter whether or not he thinks the lectionary 'works'. He's happy to take the stipend and the pension and the social status of being CofE so he should bloody well fall into line on basic CofE practice.
But presumably his employers don't mind too much so long as his congregation and the wider parish don't complain too loudly about him? The CofE is a broad church, after all.
As for the OP, I'm not sure about the concept of the liturgy as a 'teaching tool' if we're talking about sermons; sermons, so I've been told, aren't necessarily about 'teaching'. But of course, any human experience is an opportunity for learning.
My sense is that liturgies are more about reconfirming a shared identity than they are about teaching. Very rarely are the liturgies explained or discussed with congregations, IME. The 'teaching' would have to take place in a Bible study or some other small group.
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
The value of structured Liturgy, and the use of the Lectionary, is that it avoids the repetition of pet subjects.
That is, of course, true. On the other hand, confining oneself to the Lectionary also means that there are large chunks of the Bible which never get read in worship, even less preached upon.
The only problem I see with that is that, IME, many non-lectionary churches tend to have a single reading of 3-4 verses each week, which serves as the "text for today". And perhaps a short extract from one of the sunnier psalms. I'm quite sure that any lectionary is going to cover many times as much of scripture as these places.
One of the things I like about our place (Baptist) is that they're not afraid to read good long chunks of the bible. As for coverage, they go for either books or themes. In the time I've been going there (18months) they've done Luke, Revelation, Leviticus, Family and Relationships*, Money, Joshua, the life of David and Galatians. They don't necessarily do every verse - which is a relief because I've been places where such a series becomes interminable.
*and someone actually preached a sermon on singleness that didn't make me want to hurt people!
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
It doesn't matter whether or not he thinks the lectionary 'works'. He's happy to take the stipend and the pension and the social status of being CofE so he should bloody well fall into line on basic CofE practice.
But presumably his employers don't mind too much so long as his congregation and the wider parish don't complain too loudly about him? The CofE is a broad church, after all.
As for the OP, I'm not sure about the concept of the liturgy as a 'teaching tool' if we're talking about sermons; sermons, so I've been told, aren't necessarily about 'teaching'. But of course, any human experience is an opportunity for learning.
My sense is that liturgies are more about reconfirming a shared identity than they are about teaching. Very rarely are the liturgies explained or discussed with congregations, IME. The 'teaching' would have to take place in a Bible study or some other small group.
What happens in the liturgy is that Christ opens up the scriptures to his people, the Church. The road to Emmaus.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
It doesn't matter whether or not he thinks the lectionary 'works'. He's happy to take the stipend and the pension and the social status of being CofE so he should bloody well fall into line on basic CofE practice.
But presumably his employers don't mind too much so long as his congregation and the wider parish don't complain too loudly about him? The CofE is a broad church, after all.
It is a broad church, and that is an important part of its identity. But there are or ought to be limits, and from what Gamaliel says this bloke does the minimum necessary to stay somewhere that might just be seen as being within them, if you squint, in the dusk. So you do wonder why people like this stay within the CofE. Anyway, this is a tangent so we'd better not go further along it.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Yes - it's a tangent but one perhaps worth exploring in a separate thread at some point with no names, no pack drill ...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Meanwhile, I'd tend to agree with SvitlanaV2 that liturgy isn't necessarily directly didactic in the way that formal catechesis or Bible study etc is.
That said, the first time I attended an Orthodox Liturgy I 'clocked' that it was essentially a kind of mystagogic 're-enactment' or presentation of what's in the historic Creeds.
Of course, it's 'more' than that but it struck me that it was a kind of 3-D presentation of what the Creeds contain.
I can't think of any other way of explaining what I mean ...
There are kinetic elements in there as well as material that's delivered orally and visually.
And yes, it does serve to reinforce group identity and 'brand' (as it were) ...
On the point about Baptist churches and big chunks of scripture, I think that's true too.
In my experience, Baptists are better at dealing with thematic sermons and the big expository stuff than evangelical Anglicans are.
I know comparisons are onerous, but I've heard expositionary sermons that I'd consider master-pieces of the genre in Baptist circles ... but very few that have actually succeeded in that aim within Anglican settings.
I don't know why that should be.
I can't see why liturgy and the lectionary should militate against such a thing.
It might simply be because this is the 'norm' in Baptist circles they've become better at it - by and large.
That's not to say that every sermon I've heard in a Baptist setting is top-notch. Far from it. I've heard dull and dim sermons in Baptist churches just as I have elsewhere.
But as a general rule, I think the Baptists do it well - at least in my own experience.
If they could combine that with some decent liturgy then they'd be onto a winner ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Do Anglicans as a norm have the mid-week Bible study, that has to be on Wednesday? Or is it a Baptist, URC, other dissenting conservative bit of culture?
I am getting suspicious that it is an actual leftover from Calvin's liturgical week.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Do Anglicans as a norm have the mid-week Bible study, that has to be on Wednesday? Or is it a Baptist, URC, other dissenting conservative bit of culture?
I am getting suspicious that it is an actual leftover from Calvin's liturgical week.
Jengie
Is outrage! Baptists do Bible study on Thursdays.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Do Anglicans as a norm have the mid-week Bible study, that has to be on Wednesday? Or is it a Baptist, URC, other dissenting conservative bit of culture?
I am getting suspicious that it is an actual leftover from Calvin's liturgical week.
Jengie
Is outrage! Baptists do Bible study on Thursdays.
Who says it has to be on a Wednesday? Midweek in common parlance refers to Monday to Friday.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
The Wednesday is part of the Geneva pattern which is why I was asking. There was a midweek teaching /preaching service on a Wednesday morning in Geneva.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I would doubt if many churches today, even Reformed ones, would know about that or be influenced by it. Pragmatic local issues, or simply the tradition of the congregation, are far more likely factors.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
I'd suspect more common cause than direct influence: as in, putting midweek Bible study on Wednesdays is a common response to the same question, of when to putting something to be suitably spaced away from Sundays. FWIW, the last Bible study I ran was called "Wednesdays with the Word."
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Yes but it is not a matter of formal tradition "We do this because Calvin did this". It is a matter of customary behaviour "We have Bible study on Wednesday because Wednesday is the day that is the day for Bible study". If you scratch a bit deeper you find that that was the day they have previously always experienced having Bible Study on. There is no conscious link back, it is just what is right and proper. The form chosen is because of familiarity.
There is plenty of this that goes on in church culture. Have you ever tried to set up a Sunday Evening service that does not start at 6:30 pm? I have but nobody was buying it. If it was Sunday Evening service then it must start at 6:30 pm.
Or another one, how many URCs do you know whose paintwork and soft furnishings are all in pale royal blue (Methodism often uses a dark royal blue). I assure you there is no injunction by Assembly requiring it. As far as local congregations are concerned it is just the right thing to do and they have chosen it. Both former Congregationalists and Presbyterians do it.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
How many URCs do you know whose paintwork and soft furnishings are all in pale royal blue?
Well, it goes nicely with the hymnbooks ... and yes, it is the colour of our church, although perhaps a bit darker than your suggestion!
Talking of service times, I know a Baptist Church which has its morning service at the unusual time of 10.40 am. Ostensibly this is to tie in with the local bus timetable ... but that has been changed many times over the years and I doubt if anyone comes to church by bus anyway. But the service time has not changed!
[ 22. January 2015, 19:16: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Fr Weber
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# 13472
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Posted
I wonder if it isn't simply that Wednesday is far enough from Sunday so that you don't feel you're going to church every damn day of the week.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
Indeed. It's why nearly every Anglican church, even one without a daily Mass, will celebrate Holy Communion on a Wednesday. With coffee and biscuits afterwards.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Enoch
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# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Or another one, how many URCs do you know whose paintwork and soft furnishings are all in pale royal blue (Methodism often uses a dark royal blue). I assure you there is no injunction by Assembly requiring it. As far as local congregations are concerned it is just the right thing to do and they have chosen it. Both former Congregationalists and Presbyterians do it.
It's curious that, because there's a particular shade of red for carpets, runners, cushions etc that I associate with the Church of Scotland.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I remember the vicar explaining once that he was using plain - rather than coloured - candles for the Advent candles because 'the colours aren't in the Bible.'
I wanted to ask him why he was using a set of Advent candles at all in that case ...
What DO they teach 'em at Theological College these days? Banning all candles on the grounds that they are an heretical practice from the Papal Antichrist is more intelligible than that.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Or on the grounds that they are basically there to provide light with which to see and read from the books, and since the advent of electricity they are not normally needed.
Or possibly because they are a a distant memory of a Roman (classical, not ecclesiastical) custom some 1.5 thousand years past of honouring high magistrates by carrying torches in front of them, and no longer communicate the concept of honour and deference to authority.
Of course, the real reason they're there in the first place is because "We've always done it like that" -- and that's an argument no one is going to contest.
John
[ 23. January 2015, 03:44: Message edited by: John Holding ]
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Indeed. It's why nearly every Anglican church, even one without a daily Mass, will celebrate Holy Communion on a Wednesday. With coffee and biscuits afterwards.
Thurible
I know of a number of churches who have their one and only celebration of Holy Communion during the week either on a Tuesday or Thursday, which is only one day different from Wednesday on either side. But this is seldom to never to be found taking place on a Monday or Friday - too near to the week-end.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Enoch
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# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Of course, the real reason they're there in the first place is because "We've always done it like that" -- and ....
what better argument is there than that? After all, we are church.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I remember the vicar explaining once that he was using plain - rather than coloured - candles for the Advent candles because 'the colours aren't in the Bible.'
I wanted to ask him why he was using a set of Advent candles at all in that case ...
What DO they teach 'em at Theological College these days? Banning all candles on the grounds that they are an heretical practice from the Papal Antichrist is more intelligible than that.
It could be that the coloured candles had melted down to ugly stubs, and the vicar didn't think it was worthwhile spending money on new ones. His explanation might simply have been a way to reassure the congregation that white candles were a suitable alternative.
Speaking personally, I quite like the lighting of candles at Advent, but I'm not bothered about the colour. More sacramentally-minded folk can worry about that, which of course they do.
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