Ship of Fools: churchpersonship

Thread: churchpersonship Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=028773

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

Are there any CofE/Anglican parishes around that offer a wide range of churchmanship?

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

I know a few parishes in London which emabrace different churchmanship traditions:

In Holland Park a united benefice - St John the Baptist is strongly Anglo-Catholic, whilst St Gerorge's church is more moderate.

The same is true Clerkenwell between Most Holy Redeemer and St Mark's.

There is also a growing trend of cross-tradition churches:

Some - eg St Peter's Bow, St John Hackney - offer a traditional Sung Eucharist at 9.30 or 10 followed by a later less formal worship band type service.

Others - eg St Alban's Golders Green - offer a morning Sung Eucharist with bells and smells, and evening praise and worship style service.

There is also a growing number of churches in the Anglo-catholic tradition offering earlier informal Eucharists eg St Mary Primrose Hill and more recently Emmanuel, West Hampstead to accomodate growing congregations. The latter had 600 at its Mothering Sunday masses last weekend, with 120 plus coming to the 9.15 service.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

Is this question a general one or related to Australia, as per the OP'ers location?

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

General or I would not have referred to CofE which no longer exists in this fair country. I suppose even other denominations might be of interest but not sure if there are "high church" equivalents therein.

Posted by Episcoterian (# 13185) on :

How's Lutheranism like in the Antipodes?

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
How's Lutheranism like in the Antipodes?

Strong in parts of Australia.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

In parts of Queensland and South Australia, but not elsewhere. Perhaps because Lutherans are such a small grouping that they maintain a closed table and a very closed community. Their participation in the Council of Churches is minimal, as it is also in such local ecumenical activities as combined carol services. With all that, it's impossible for an outsider to know of any variations in churchmanship.

Posted by Knopwood (# 11596) on :

I'm given to understand the Lutheran Church in Australia maintains a somewhat equivocal stance with respect to Missouri vs the LWF. It wouldn't surprise me if their practices with respect to various Dead Horse issues (as I seem to recall closed communion is) hewed more closely to the former, since being a "conservative" member (even "associate") of the LWF is an easier position to maintain than being a "liberal" member (ditto) of the ILC. Many of the LCA's founders were fleeing the same forced Prussian Union which propelled the Fathers of the Missouri Synod from their homeland.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I honestly don't understand the last post. What is Missouri? Who were they fleeing?

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Knopwood, I assume that by Missouri, you mean the Missouri Synod, but I have no idea what the acronyms mean - perhaps you could use the titles. And also unpack quite a bit of what you say, as it's rather dense.

Posted by Knopwood (# 11596) on :

There are two main international alignments of Lutherans, the Lutheran World Federation and International Lutheran Council. The LWF represents the "mainline" tradition of the old state churches of Europe. The ILC includes the Missouri Synod and its missions, and other communities formed by refugees from Bismark's Prussia.

The Lutheran Church in Australia, as I understand it, has not cast their lot fully with either of these camps, but are an "associate" member of each. Like the Missouri Synod, they originate in the exodus from the imperially imposed Prussian Union with the Reformed, which created today's united Protestant Church of Germany. I am not sure how much of the history of the union I can appropriately "unpack" within the parameters of this thread, but for our purposes it's fair to say that the legacy (or baggage) of the union has left these refugee communities with a certain sense of vigilance against doctrinal compromise.

Posted by Roselyn (# 17859) on :

Are people saying that Lutheran parishes have a wide range of churchmanship, I am a little confused.

Posted by Kayarecee (# 17289) on :

People are saying that "Lutheran" covers a huge range of theological and liturgical positions, from Catholic-but-not-in-communion-with-Rome all the way down to allegedly-nonliturgical hyper-congregationalist, and everything in between. Ditto politics, and with every possible permutation of high and low theology, left and right polity.

But the Lutherans in any particular nation or region in a nation* tend to be a lot more coherent in thought and practice, within and among ourselves. It sounds like the Lutherans in Australia are among the more closed-off and politically and theologically conservative flavors of Lutheran.

Edited to add: in the largest Lutheran denomination in the US, there are a fair number of parishes that try to accommodate both "traditional" and "contemporary" worship, usually with two different worship services on a Sunday morning. Generally speaking though, within a congregation, even if the worship format varies, the theological and political position of the people attending worship will be pretty much the same no matter which format of worship they prefer, and theology and polity are just as much a part of churchpersonship as liturgy.
---
*Regional variation in a nation the size of the United States can be pretty extreme. I grew up among the descendents of German Lutherans on the eastern seaboard of the US, where the prevailing form is something along the lines of high-church CofE, roughly speaking. There's some variation, but broadly speaking, a Lutheran from the state of New York and the state of Pennsylvania are going to have more in common with each other than they are with another Lutheran from the more pietistic, congregational (Low Church, verging on conevo in some cases) Midwest.

[ 25. March 2015, 13:51: Message edited by: Kayarecee ]

Posted by DangerousDeacon (# 10582) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
In parts of Queensland and South Australia, but not elsewhere. Perhaps because Lutherans are such a small grouping that they maintain a closed table and a very closed community. Their participation in the Council of Churches is minimal, as it is also in such local ecumenical activities as combined carol services. With all that, it's impossible for an outsider to know of any variations in churchmanship.

Lutherans up here as well - they had control of the missions in Central Australia, and have a college up here in Darwin.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

I'd forgotten your neck of the woods! [Biased]

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0