Ship of Fools: Inverted result

Thread: Inverted result Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

On another thread, I wrote:

"If you force something down people's throats, some of them will resent it a great deal. There are, for instance, people who loathe sports because they were forced to participate in sports in school."

Can you think of other examples of this? Algebra? Hand-washing? Memorizing the names of Roman emperors? Listening to grand opera? Are people, in particular children, sometimes coerced "for their own good"? Is there always a better technique? Is such coercion simply a regimenting mechanism?

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Going to church is the first thing that springs to mind. Most of the most outspoken atheists I know were forced to go to church as children and rebelled against it as soon as they could, with their impression of all things religious being cemented by about the age of 14.

I've always thought it's the result of being told that one must like something, rather than being shown why something is good. Or being introduced at the wrong age (often too young, though sometimes you can be too old).

A little while ago I tried to show my nieces what was good about Formula 1. Though I was put in place by the seven year old who quipped: "But Uncle Simon. It looks like they're breaking the speed limit. They're naughty."

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

You can put a positive spin on the concept, though. Some time ago, exasperated by constant whining about having to do piano practice, I flatly forbade X to do anymore piano practice. I ordered him to get up from the bench immediately and go watch TV.

Want to guess what the result was? [Biased]

At least my ears have stopped hurting.

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

Being forced to do stuff certainly had that effect on me - it still does, in fact, which is a bit childish, but there you go.

I was made to play netball at school, and continue to loathe it with a passion more than 20 years later. I was made to wear skirts and forbidden to primp myself on the basis of some apparent biblical dictat, also. I have hardly been out of a pair of jeans since I left home, except when at work, and even then, I usually wear pants. It did occur to me while writing this, though, that being forced to look like a brethren grandma for the first seventeen years of my life did potentially narrow the scope of my inevitable rebellion. I was perfectly delighted, once shot of home, to be able to pierce my ears, dye my hair, and wear jeans. Oh, and drink. I did that. I still do that, actually. That was enough - no need to go and get a huge dragon tattooed all over back, or shove a stud through my eyebrow, or take ecstasy, or go backpacking through Venezeula, or anything like that. So perhaps I've been had all these years by my folks, and this was what they had in mind all the time - turning me into a pretty conventional individual...

Posted by HughWillRidmee (# 15614) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Going to church is the first thing that springs to mind. Most of the most outspoken atheists I know were forced to go to church as children and rebelled against it as soon as they could, with their impression of all things religious being cemented by about the age of 14.

Once my voice had broken and I no longer got paid for going to church I was expected to join with my siblings in filling the "vicarage pew" as an example to those who weren't there to see us. When, in 1964 - aged 16, I learnt that my mother would prefer my non-attendance to attending-in-a-manner-which-embarrassed-her-more-than-my-absence (blue jeans and a faux-leather black shirt) I , for the first time, gained control of a seventh of my life.

As to the cementing of ideas - by the age of fourteen I understood the very basic tenets of Christianity and was unable to make myself think that they were/could possibly be right. AFAIC without faith it isn't the clever bits that don't work - the failure is in the fundamentals on which the clever bits depend.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I can't say that the need to do the opposite influenced me much; my family indifference to church and temple seemed perfectly fine to me after a couple of attempts to suggest I do it. However, I do think the principal is true. Millenials had a tough time finding a mode of dress that offended hippie parents. It has been known to result in the young adopting suits and short haircuts.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Well, it certainly left me with a loathing of sports that extends to my vociferously denying that cycling, which I do, is a sport at all (at least the way I do it, non-competitively), because if it were I'd want no part of it. But I don't think that's "being made to do it"; it's "being made to do it even though I was shite at it and had no interest in it."

I still have an irrational dislike of morris dancers, fairground organs and traction engines having been required to stand and look at them as a child despite not giving a toss about them.

[ 04. November 2014, 08:51: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Going to church is the first thing that springs to mind. Most of the most outspoken atheists I know were forced to go to church as children and rebelled against it as soon as they could, with their impression of all things religious being cemented by about the age of 14.

I was never an atheist but avoided church like the plague as soon as I left home, having been forced to attend 2-3x a week (including youth groups and Bible studies). I used to fantasize about what it would be like to sleep in on a Sunday morning.

The people I know who stayed faithful through teenage years were all allowed by parents to go to other churches or youth groups that were more fun for them, even if that meant not attending on Sundays with the rest of the family. I'd probably not have given up on Christianity for 10 years had I been allowed to explore it on my own.

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

I was brought up partly Catholic and went to a Catholic school which firmly cemented my hatred of anything to do with the Catholic Church. However, I think that being forced to do something is only half the story. I was also forced to go walking and camping which I didn't like at the time but which are pretty much what I live for now. I think the difference is that the people who forced me to go walking and camping loved what they did, I just couldn't see past my childish rebellion to see that. The people who forced me to go to church and RI lessons seemed to want me to go out of fear, a fear of the spiritual consequences and a fear of losing part of their community to "the enemy" (protestants, pagans etc.) none of it was done out of a genuine love of what they were doing.

Even now I see at my local Anglican Church that people who turn up to the Christmas and Easter specials (like me) genuinely enjoy that bit of Church life. The regulars seem to be there just to make sure that their status is maintained within the community, most of them don't seem to enjoy it at all. That still puts me off being part of any church.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Dunno; "Taffy" Hughes certainly loved rugby but he still left me with a loathing of it. Mind you, he also hated me so that might be it.

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

Yes, I got the same from my PE teacher, he loved sport but the way I played it caused him psychological torment so he hated me. His stock phrase was "go and run around the golf course boy, you are an insult to football". Not allowing me to play football didn't make me love it either.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

I think Taffy hated me because not only was a shite at rugby, but I didn't like it anyway and didn't give a shit. And regularly forgot my kit. To him, this was like being indifferent to the presence or otherwise of oxygen. It was a cognitive dissonance as much as anything.

[ 04. November 2014, 09:51: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

My friend, who has a warped sense of humour, and managed an official skive off team games at school, came up with an off-colour pre-Olympics joke. That there had been a threat of disruption, but the police had managed to narrow down the field of suspects, as it was someone who had hated PE and their PE teacher at school.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

My mother regarded long hair as untidy and insisted I keep it short, despite much pleading on my part to be allowed to grow it. She even accompanied me to the hairdresser to supervise my pre-University cut, aged 18, as she knew that she couldn't trust me to get it cut on my own.

I started growing it the day I went to University. Unfortunately, it just won't grow much past shoulder length, or I'd be swishing around with waist-length hair now. I hardly ever go to the hairdresser - I think I've only had one trim so far in 2014.

However, like anoesis, it did narrow the scope of my teenage rebellion. Who needs drugs at Uni when you get a buzz from simply running your fingers through long hair?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
North East Quine: Who needs drugs at Uni when you get a buzz from simply running your fingers through long hair?

I do have relatively long hair, but I mostly get my buzz from running my fingers through somebody else's long hair.

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

I've had to struggle with this myself over the years as my bio parents were pretty badly abusive, particularly mentally/emotionally. I didn't want to be like them, but I realized that allowing myself to be defined by being the opposite of them was still letting them define me. So for me some things I like/do/believe are in spite of the fact that my parents did them--I've tried to root them in what I believe is really good, true, or that I enjoy.

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :

quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
My mother regarded long hair as untidy and insisted I keep it short, despite much pleading on my part to be allowed to grow it.

Exactly the opposite for me! My long blonde hair was much loved by my older relatives and my dad's beliefs meant that I was never allowed to cut it. It was a bloody pain - got tangled around everything because it wafted everywhere.

I left home and had it cut to the brutally short length it remains at to this day (30-mumble years). The hairdresser was very cautious, but realised I was serious. I didn't even keep it.

My rebellion though, was more around ideas. I remained a churchgoer, but discovered feminism, which was guaranteed to get right up my dad's nose.

Posted by Pre-cambrian (# 2055) on :

When I was young my mother used to be quite disparaging about the fact that my school didn't force us through a programme of reading the classics of English literature, unlike her (therefore superior) school.

However, I have never seen her read any of those books, and she will now admit that it put her off for life. Unlike me who now reads them for pleasure.

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