Ship of Fools: Which church sponsored activities welcome Santa?

Thread: Which church sponsored activities welcome Santa? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=028816

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Last night I watched a video of a man singing in church a Christmas song about Jesus' birth - he was wearing a Santa hat. That surprised me.

The Mothers Day Out managers insist on a visit from Santa because they love kids' excitement and shining eyes. The clergy don't like Santa in any of the church buildings but figure they have enough other battles, so allow Santa anywhere except the sanctuary.

Does Santa show up at any activities in your church? Curious how various churches handle the Santa aspect of Christmas.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Santa always visits the designated carol service, which is on the last Sunday before Christmas. We may be an independent church but we have our traditions/customs/habits too.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

Saint Nicholas makes an annual appearance on the Sunday closest to his Feast Day (December 7 this year) and meets with the Church School kids, but Santa Claus has no place in our observances.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

The tradition at one church was for Santa Claus to be the last person to receive communion at the early mass on Christmas Eve. Presumably, Santa Claus would then be on his way delivering toys. I thought this tradition was problematic for a number of reasons. Of all the churches in the world, why would Santa stop at this church every year? Why would he only come forward for communion? Wouldn't it be easier for Santa to say mass himself before leaving the North Pole? Do elves need to be baptized?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

No Santa Claus for us, our first generation converts don't need any more difficulty distinguishing doctrine from WTF. (We get enough of that with random syncretistic ideas imported from popular Buddhism and ancestor worship.)

If they want to do Santa, let them go down to the shopping mall. At least there there's no danger of them getting him mixed up with the sacraments.

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

One view of Santa Claus is that the belief in Santa Claus is a practice religion for very small children and a sometimes-useful metaphor or reference for older people. One problem with this view is that when you tell children that one religion is just pretend, they may draw the same conclusion about other religions as well. Many of us have managed to survive all this. Of course, if we view Santa Claus as Saint Nicholas, an actual historical long-deceased Christian figure, then some of the problem goes away and we are simply telling a ghost story.

Posted by PaulBC (# 13712) on :

why bother emphasize the CHRIST in Christmas not the materialist secular emphasis

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

Does Santa show up at any activities in your church? Curious how various churches handle the Santa aspect of Christmas.

No beardy oldie in a red suit here (although various members of the congregation like to wear "seasonal" knitwear, which will often feature reindeer, Santa and the like).

Our priest has occasionally managed to preach a sermon about St. Nick without explicitly telling the littlies that there's no fat man sneaking down their chimney on Christmas Eve.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

No Father Christmas in my church. The kids are bombarded on tv, the shops, at school and at home about him, and these days very little about Christ. let's use the church to lead our children to Jesus, not to the toy shop.

Posted by Philip Charles (# 618) on :

This and this are powerful anti-Santa weapons. The first was used as a reflection at a pre-Christmas service.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

We're not anti-Santa; I'm sure he makes an appearance at many homes in the congregation. However, he doesn't get any airtime at the front or in any services, all of which will be Christmas story/nativity/gospel/nod to Easter in content.

[ETA: I can't actually see why one would wish to incorporate Santa into a church service in the first place. Fraught with olders dispelling the myth for youngers, charges of secularism and materialism, issues with any hardline anti-Santa folk, essentially irrelevant anyway etc. etc.

[ 23. November 2014, 07:50: Message edited by: Snags ]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Does Santa show up at any activities in your church?

For duck's sake, Duck No.

And, what Lamb Chopped said. Can't tell what the duck from doctrine isn't just for Vietnamese.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
We're not anti-Santa; I'm sure he makes an appearance at many homes in the congregation. However, he doesn't get any airtime at the front or in any services, all of which will be Christmas story/nativity/gospel/nod to Easter in content.

That sounds about right to me.

OTOH, My husband informed me today that Jesus designated Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus as the official party planner for his birthday. I can't help it, I like his little Catholic boy ideas.

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

Our priest has occasionally managed to preach a sermon about St. Nick without explicitly telling the littlies that there's no fat man sneaking down their chimney on Christmas Eve.

I've never understood this. Tell them they're being lied to. Simples.

I've always hated Santa - not for any erudite doctrinal reasons (although when churches have the fat red metaphor pitch up at Christmas parties or waste hours decorating a nice pagan tree, it seems hypocritical and stupid).

I concluded when I was about two or three that Santa wasn't real. I thought he was made up by grown-ups to make children look stupid so they could laugh at them and be patronising (I was a slightly odd child, and I hated being patronised). Obviously though, I wanted the presents, so I pretended for at least two Christmases to believe all the stuff, although I did try to tell other children that it was all lies. Eventually when I was five my mother told me I was far too old for all that Santa rubbish, and I still got presents, so it was better all round.

I learned from the Santa stories that grown-ups lie, and collude - even in the church. I learned that sometimes you have to lie and allow other people to be duped (because telling other children that Santa's a big fat lie gets you into trouble) in order to get things (nice little capitalist message for children there). I learned that I could go along with something I didn't like and felt was wrong, ni order to get things, and that it wasn't a nice feeling. Ergo, I still hate Santa.

I decided then that I I even have children that I'll tell them that it's all a story that some people like to play along with - like acting - but I won't ever tell them it's not fiction.

Churches should leave Santa outside in the cold (or in the baking sun without sunblock if they're in the Southern Hemisphere). He gets plenty of attention - more than Jesus does, probably, and there's no need for it.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

The only mention of Santa in a church that I've ever seen is on a poster of a nearby independent baptist church that read 'Santa didn't die for you.'

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The only mention of Santa in a church that I've ever seen is on a poster of a nearby independent baptist church that read 'Santa didn't die for you.'

Any day now, like the first cuckoo in Spring, the first vicar of the season will be castigated in the gutter press for so much as hinting to the kiddies that there is no santa.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Father Christmas doesn't appear at any of our services.

However, from time to time he does seem to take over on the organ bench at the end of the school carol service and the Christmas Day Family Service - but only after the blessing.

We know its Father Christmas because the page turner is an elf - with the ears to prove it!

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The only mention of Santa in a church that I've ever seen is on a poster of a nearby independent baptist church that read 'Santa didn't die for you.'

Any day now, like the first cuckoo in Spring, the first vicar of the season will be castigated in the gutter press for so much as hinting to the kiddies that there is no santa.

Then again, if he said that Santa died for our sins he'd be in trouble too.

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

And save us all from Santa's tyranny...

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Some people handle this with a "Kneeling Santa" ornament.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

We're getting perilously close to the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.

There's no jokes like the old ones.

Sorry Golden Key, to lower the tone. This was prompted by the posts before yours.

[ 23. November 2014, 21:20: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

Any day now, like the first cuckoo in Spring, the first vicar of the season will be castigated in the gutter press for so much as hinting to the kiddies that there is no santa.

Ding ding ding ding!

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

There is so much Santa in the secular celebration of Christmas that I can't see any need to include him in the church's activities.

That goes double for Singing Christmas Trees, which make the baby Jesus cry (and possibly soil His diaper as well).

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I'm from the Netherlands. Santa doesn't exist.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

Any day now, like the first cuckoo in Spring, the first vicar of the season will be castigated in the gutter press for so much as hinting to the kiddies that there is no santa.
Ding ding ding ding!

And we're only in the first week of Advent. Canonise Father Dennis Higgins NOW.

Pity the Head backed down. Perhaps St Anne's Well could be renamed St Anne and Father Dennis's Well.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

From the link:

quote:
One [parent] asked 'how dare he?'- accusing him of ruining the 'magic of Christmas'

The real "magic" amazing thrillingness of Christmas is exactly what the Priest had in mind!

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

We have a Wednesday night fellowship meal around mid-December and one of the guys wears a Santa suit and gives a present to each of the kids.

I've never seen him show up on Sunday.

Didn't Ozzy do a tune "Elves in Hell"?

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Canon Higgins (the Buxton priest who is accused of 'ruining' Christmas) is being set up, as are most clerics who dare put their head above the parapet.

This is a manufactured story of the worst sort:

First, the children at the school mass were in years 3-6 of primary school, so the youngest would be seven and a half: how many children that age in the UK today really 'believe' in Father Christmas?

Second: the clue is in the use of the term 'Santa Claus', invariably the title used by those who see Christmas purely as a celebration of the man in the Coca-Cola red suit.

Third: it was in the Daily Mail.

I'm just waiting for the first person to tell me that Christmas 'is a time for the kiddies' [Mad]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

...while filling a shopping trolley full of lager, vodka, whisky...

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

Originally posted by L'organist:

quote:
First, the children at the school mass were in years 3-6 of primary school, so the youngest would be seven and a half: how many children that age in the UK today really 'believe' in Father Christmas?

A surprising number. The one occasion on which an indignant parishoner took pen to paper and wrote to the bishop demanding my abolition forthwith was the occasion on which I told a class of year sixes that, actually, it was their parents. (It was a confirmation class, one of the children asked me a direct question and I naively assumed that everyone was hip to the sordid truth at that age. Apparently not.)

Daddy's little princess has sussed the truth of the matter aged seven. I am so proud.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I'm just waiting for the first person to tell me that Christmas 'is a time for the kiddies'.

What about Steve Turner ? [Smile]

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

Our church meets in a school hall and we enjoy good relations with the school establishment. To that end we generally get asked to supply the Santa who drops in on the kids at the end of term and dispenses sweeties under the watchful eye of a teacher. (I had this honour a couple of years ago; reactions ranged from awestruck year 1s through to sceptical, sideways glancing year 6s.) But, as a church, that's about as far as we go, Santawise.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

We had a Santa's grotto at the Church Christmas fair - does that count as 'welcoming Santa'?

The guides all dressed as elves and had great fun [Smile]

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

My church will have representations of Father Christmas, not 'Santa Claus' because (a) we're British and Sinterklaas is Dutch, and (b) we actually tell our children about St Nicholas.

And our St Nicholas/Sinterklaas will be dressed traditionally - in blue since we don't make a habit, if we can help it, of promoting brands of fizzy drink... [Biased]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

I note with much approval that St John's in the centre of Cardiff are offering a 'fleeting meeting with St Nicholas', several times a day, with a poster showing a bearded chap in a blue fur-trimmed robe.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

The Christmas programme at St John's puts most of the city churches I know to shame.

Good to see they put the blame for the modern, down-the-chimney 'Santa' where it should fall - on the dreadful doggerel by Clement Moore ('Twas the night before Christmas).

What puzzles me is that Moore's 'Saint Nick' was clearly a midget or dwarf since he refers to the

quote:
miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer

and the driver as

quote:
dress'd all in fur, from his head to his foot

and also refers to him having a pipe between his teeth.

How on earth did anyone (even C*ca-C*la) get from that to a full-sized corpulent man dressed in red?

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

How on earth did anyone (even C*ca-C*la) get from that to a full-sized corpulent man dressed in red?

Well, I be dogged.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Originally posted by L'organist:

quote:
First, the children at the school mass were in years 3-6 of primary school, so the youngest would be seven and a half: how many children that age in the UK today really 'believe' in Father Christmas?
A surprising number. The one occasion on which an indignant parishoner took pen to paper and wrote to the bishop demanding my abolition forthwith was the occasion on which I told a class of year sixes that, actually, it was their parents. (It was a confirmation class, one of the children asked me a direct question and I naively assumed that everyone was hip to the sordid truth at that age. Apparently not.)

Daddy's little princess has sussed the truth of the matter aged seven. I am so proud.

We don't do Santa at home. This was fine with my straightforward serious eldest but it took years to convince my youngest he didn't exist [Roll Eyes]

[ 05. December 2014, 15:04: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Well, I be dogged.

Sorry, but as nobody else has said it, are you sure that's quite what you meant to say?
Warning, don't follow this link at work.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

hosting/

He's right. Note the NSFW warning, and those of a sensitive disposition leave now.

/hosting.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

I don't think Santa - as a personality - has any place in a worship service. He was banned from one children's Christmas service I know of. The idea of the big red caricature being the highlight of a service intended to honour Jesus' birth was just too much!

But it's not a preacher's place to subvert the myth explicitly enough to cause upset to small children. If parents want to allow their children to believe in Santa for a while, that's their business and anyone who wants to muck with that is a fool, and not a very kind fool either.

Most kids, I truly believe, are perfectly capable of enjoying some childish magic, for a few years, and then sliding naturally and healthily into deeper awarenesses of real-life.

Kids believe their toys are alive, that fairy-tales are real, that monsters live under the bed, and that Daddy can lift cars over his head: at for a few short years, and in that naive way that is totally appropriate for a developing human infant whose brain is hardly fit for the wholeness of the truth. And few parents, surely end their bedtime reading by saying 'but of course, it's all rubbish and lies anyway. Not only did they not live happily ever after - nobody does - but Cinderella and Prince Charming don't even exist'. And what parent would send their kid away when Dolly or Teddy gets 'hurt' saying, 'don't be stupid. It's not alive! It's just a lump of plastic or fur'.

The Santa myth comes into this category, so far as I'm concerned, admittedly in a much more heavily concerted way. But I don't believe the horrible, nasty adults lied to me about Santa, when I was kid, any more than they lied to me when they slipped a coin under my pillow when I lost a tooth, or gave my doll a cuddle when she fell on the floor and told me she'd be all right. I think they were simply entering into my all too few opportunities to enjoy a little naive pleasure before the shit of so-called real-life hit the fan.

When Santa became no longer real to me, it was part of the ordinary and gradual process of getting older and gaining the skills of how to discern ever more complex social concepts and layers of reality. And it was less traumatic than going up a shoe-size. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I believe most parents are well able to share fun fantasy things like stories, toys and Santa without traumatising their kids?

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

I'm... not sure precisely how I'd handle the whole Santa thing, were I to beget and raise offspring.

I definitely would not lie to my kids.

On the other hand what I actually believe in, and/or am open to, is weirder than what most people do.

I also (apart from the wee matter that Lying Is Wrong) think that the whole "Is God just like Santa? When will I be told that He's made up to?" thing is a horrible dangerous pitfall for anyone being raised in the Christian faith.

I do believe in St. Nicholas. As a real genuine miraculous saint whose prayers one can ask for.

I also do think make-believe is fun and good.

Perhaps the best approach would be explaining the history of the actual St. Nicholas, and then asking the child what he or she thinks about Father Christmas/Santa, and letting them sort it out. Who knows, maybe there is a sort of (actual entity) spirit of the season on some level. I've got no idea. More things in heaven and earth, etc.

Certainly there is "Dear Virginia," as far as a healthy approach is concerned.

I think one must avoid being Scrooge-like about the whole thing.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
I'm... not sure precisely how I'd handle the whole Santa thing, were I to beget and raise offspring.

I definitely would not lie to my kids.

On the other hand what I actually believe in, and/or am open to, is weirder than what most people do.

I also (apart from the wee matter that Lying Is Wrong) think that the whole "Is God just like Santa? When will I be told that He's made up to?" thing is a horrible dangerous pitfall for anyone being raised in the Christian faith.

I do believe in St. Nicholas. As a real genuine miraculous saint whose prayers one can ask for.

I also do think make-believe is fun and good.

Perhaps the best approach would be explaining the history of the actual St. Nicholas, and then asking the child what he or she thinks about Father Christmas/Santa, and letting them sort it out. Who knows, maybe there is a sort of (actual entity) spirit of the season on some level. I've got no idea. More things in heaven and earth, etc.

That's more or less the way we handled it. We gave-- and still give-- our kids stockings "from Santa." (We did not, however, include the whole guilt-inducing, manipulative "naughty-or-nice" contingency). When they were old enough to ask if "Santa is real" we said yes-- then proceeded to tell them about St. Nicholas, and then to explain that in remembrance of Nicholas, "Santa" is what we say when we want to give a present w/o recognition, without any possibility of repayment, but just as a way to bless and give joy to someone else anonymously.

We would then let our kids know that they, too, could be "Santas" by giving anonymous gifts to others. We would usually that year find some anonymous little tokens in our stockings-- a small drawing scratched out on a bit of paper, or a found pinecone with a bit of mud still clinging to it...

We still fill our kids' stockings, btw. The whole idea that once you know the truth you're cut off thing also always seemed manipulative too.

[ 06. December 2014, 03:30: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Well, I be dogged.
Sorry, but as nobody else has said it, are you sure that's quite what you meant to say?
Warning, don't follow this link at work.

Only the Mrs. knows for sure.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

No kids, either, but Chastmastr's approach is what I've thought my own would be. And cliffdweller, I like the idea of the little found gifties.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

Kids will find out eventually anyway, so I don't think there's any harm in the whole thing. I've never heard of hosts of childrens worlds falling apart because they found out Father Christmas doesn't really exist.

I remember a couple of times my mum pretending to phone Father Christmas asking him not to send any presents when my brother and I had been naughty, then we'd plead and promise to be good. LOL! Those were the days.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

We never mentioned Santa to our boys and all presents had tags on from the giver. But we did hide their big present until the day, mainly so they couldn't guess what it was.

[Smile]

Friends, of course, often made a big deal of Santa to them - listened for sleigh bells etc - but I don't remember any conversations about whether he existing or not in our house.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
... I remember a couple of times my mum pretending to phone Father Christmas asking him not to send any presents when my brother and I had been naughty, then we'd plead and promise to be good. LOL! Those were the days.

Don't you claim that this was cruelty that has scarred you for life? [Mad]

[ 14. December 2014, 08:31: Message edited by: Enoch ]

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0