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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Homelessness In UK
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Frankly My Dear
Shipmate
# 18072
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Posted
Homelessness in the UK. Something that's been rather lost in the UK media, despite concerns expressed from many quarters (including the Archbishop Of Canterbury now on food banks) about the knock-on effects of austerity.
Any shipmates out there who have experienced, or witnessed at first-hand, the obstacles ahead, particularly for the under-25's,, who can no longer count on either parent to give them settled accommodation? They must be out there somewhere, particularly in regard to the hard line the government now takes on social housing provision for this age group?
And which bodies in particular are key in addressing this problem? Here in my home town, various charities and social enterprises are just starting to have a 'joined-up thinking' approach to this.
Posts: 108 | From: Telford, Shropshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2014
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I'm a bit of a bore on this subject, but we mustn't ignore the number of empty homes in Britain. This contributes to overcrowding and the difficulties people find when relocating as well as inflating house prices and rents.
In England alone there are 610,000 empty homes. In Newport, South Wales about two thousand are empty. I'll save the hosts a link check but anyone interested can check the 'Empty Homes' website for more details.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Frankly My Dear
Shipmate
# 18072
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Posted
Please, feel free to bore for England (literally!) .. In the light of the underlying trends and figures, such as the one you mention,, what is the extent of the help that can be offered on a local, 'semi-permanent' basis - Or is it inevitably a piecemeal, 'put a plaster on it' operation? Any Salvation Army people out there with an insight on that?
Posts: 108 | From: Telford, Shropshire, UK | Registered: Apr 2014
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
In England alone there are 610,000 empty homes.
From www.gov.uk,
quote:
Just over 635,000 homes in England are empty, and around 216,000 of those have been empty for over 6 months.
This doesn't quite paint the same picture. Homes that are empty for a couple of months between residents aren't really "empty" in a useful sense.
People die, and their families take a while to make arrangements for their homes and possessions. Couples move in together, and it takes a while to sort out the home that has been left empty. Tenants leave unexpectedly, and it takes time to make the house ready for a new tenancy, and to find one.
So it looks to me as though the "useful" number of empty homes is more like the 216,000 number than three times that.
216,000 is about 1% of the number of households in England.
What I'd really like to see is a map showing the locations of those 216,000 empty homes.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Fixing homelessness is not as simple as bringing housing stock back into the market or building new homes. If that was the case a legislation that hit people with two homes might well release a lot more stock.
The fact is that it is people end up homeless because they are socially excluded, than become socially excluded because they are homeless. A surprisingly high proportion is related to family breakdown. However, homelessness exacerbates tendencies that make it difficult to rehouse people. It promotes short term thinking as the focus is on the next meal, raising money for a B&B for the night and not losing the few possessions you have. The life of a homeless person is chaotic, but there are people with chaotic lives who are not homeless.
The network of provision in the UK is certainly well developed. The issues above usually make rehousing someone a multi-agency task. They may need, a house, furnishings, debt counselling and continued social support for it to work. The percentage of people rehoused who end up homeless again is far too high. However, that also makes it expensive. It is underfunded, but it is not charities acting alone. This goes back at least as far as the nineteen nineties with the vulnerable peoples task forces. I am connected to a small charity working in the area. We do one thing well (provide things such as loo roll and light bulbs to those who are rehoused), we rely on other charities and agencies to distribute these to people being rehoused.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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frin
Drinking coffee for Jesus
# 9
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Posted
A few years ago I ran a workshop for students in which we talked about homelessness, and we built all the case studies for the workshop out of the experience of those students, immediate friends, and partners. Homelessness is incredibly easy to fall into, and most people are only a small coincidence of unfortunate events from it. Our personal experiences bore that out.
When we lived up north, we volnteered with the Nighstop programme, which was originally set up by churches in Leeds, and was later picked up more widely. That provided crisis accommodation for 16-25 year olds whilst a better solution was found for each one. I can't tell you any specific stories from those who stayed with us, but many of those using the service were care leavers, and the immediate cause of their homelessness was often relationship breakup, family breakdown, or a threat of violence.
The key with Nightstop was that the emergency accommodation in spare bedrooms was followed up with an attempt to get someone into an appropriate bed as quickly as possible, whether by facilitating reconciliation, or finding a hostel space. But young people are vulnerable in hostels, and the shift of policy even further against young people - predicated on the assumption that all young people have nice, well off adults who can let them live in their homes - is awful.
Posts: 4496 | From: a library | Registered: Apr 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
The life of a homeless person is chaotic, but there are people with chaotic lives who are not homeless.
...They may need, a house, furnishings, debt counselling and continued social support for it to work. The percentage of people rehoused who end up homeless again is far too high. However, that also makes it expensive.
I don't know about UK but in USA (at least some) homeless are surprisingly mobile.
An "adopt a family for Christmas" group at work was told the family needed a mattress. Investigation revealed they also had one sheet, no blanket, no refrigerator, two plates, one cup - etc. So the group rounded up a refrigerator, sheets, blankets, towels, a set of dishes etc. as well as toys for the kids.
Two months later when they followed up, the family had moved. What happened to the stuff? Moving it would have been expensive, so they probably ditched a lot of it. Then in their new location they would once again need basic furnishings.
The homeless gal I took in a while ago has moved often following rumors of jobs or moving in with a friend for a while then relocating to live with a different friend for a while.
My point being "They may need, a house, furnishings, debt counselling and continued social support" not just once but again and again unless a job is found that pays well enough to live and that is interesting enough for them to want to keep.
What's available in USA is usually low paid part time jobs that demand 24/7 availability, meaning you can't work a second part time job. (A friend worked for a nursing home, wore a pager, was forbidden to ever leave the county so she could be called in to work at any time - all of the on-call time unpaid, they kept her paid hours low enough to avoid having to provide any benefits). Of course she quit and moved on no notice, that job wasn't paying her bills anyway, why not follow the weather by season or move to helpa friend?)
No number of outstanding social workers can help a person out of poverty when employers treat them like dirt that way.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Did you miss the counselling bit! I do not mean psychotherapy; I mean support workers who work are around when needed (that, unfortunately, for many in the early days of resettlement is 24 hour 7 days a week). Counsel here, in the good old-fashioned form of supportive advice. This is because the big need is to start to build long term stable relationships. It is also the hardest to do. The mobility comes out of the lack of such relationships.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
I do not mean psychotherapy; I mean support workers who work are around when needed (that, unfortunately, for many in the early days of resettlement is 24 hour 7 days a week). Counsel here, in the good old-fashioned form of supportive advice.
My husband used to do exactly this job. It also involved a lot of helping them deal with the authorities. He was made redundant two years ago - along with all of his team - cutbacks ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Frankly My Dear:
Please, feel free to bore for England (literally!) .. In the light of the underlying trends and figures, such as the one you mention,, what is the extent of the help that can be offered on a local, 'semi-permanent' basis - Or is it inevitably a piecemeal, 'put a plaster on it' operation? Any Salvation Army people out there with an insight on that?
Hello ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I was an assistant manager in a hostel for the homeless just for 2 years (1998 - 2000) so my knowledge is way out of date.
I id over the last 18 months, run a Sunday night feeding centre, until the summer (when I was reappointed elsewhere)
What I can tell you is that the direct access system no longer applies and all residents in a hostel have to be referred by the local authority. The oroblem is that the LA will not refer anyone to a hostel who has come from another LA area, or cannot prove they have links with the area. Therefore, if a man comes to a church or to the SA in the evening, there is nothing we can do; there is literally no one who has any responsibility to provide a bed for the night and even an SA hostel is not allowed to take them, though I guess a kind hearted manager will allow a one-night emergency if the bloke isn't drunk or abusive.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
...the direct access system no longer applies and all residents in a hostel have to be referred by the local authority. The problem is that the LA will not refer anyone to a hostel who has come from another LA area, or cannot prove they have links with the area. Therefore, if a man comes to a church or to the SA in the evening, there is nothing we can do...
The government controls what charities can do for the homeless? Wow. I'm guessing the goal to is "take care of only our own" and "avoid becoming a destination for out of town or out of state homeless"?
Communities fear any generosity with help will attract more homeless from other areas, straining local resources - both money/housing and tolerance by the community of the increased numbers on the streets.
One problem with counseling, the homeless and near homeless I have chatted with say they don't need counseling, they need jobs!
The counseling for homeless I've found (trying to help a homeless gal) only help their shelter residents, but the women's shelters are overfull with women who have children, so a single or older woman is out. I don't know the situation for men. I don't know if the issue is just system overload or if they've decided they need full control of all aspects of a person's life to be able to bring about genuine changes.
I wish I had answers. The churches here recently got together to staff a soup kitchen open daily. That doesn't solve long term problems but might help keep people healthier.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Yes, if the government give you money they control what you do.
IME the big issue with homelessness is substance abuse and mental health issues.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
One answer would be to give free transport to people on minimum wage.
That way they can stay put and travel to work - which is utterly impossible at the moment.
When my son moved to Heidelberg in Germany he had several low paid jobs while he learned the language. He got free travel on buses, trams and trains - this made all the difference. He is now a nurse and paying taxes etc etc.
It's short sighted to expect people to move for work - it simply starts a spiral which can so easily end in homelessness.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
What Mudfrog reports is a direct copy of the regulations of the Elizabethan Poor Law (that's the first Elizabeth). You could only be supported in your own parish. I found, the other day, a slip on which I had written that, at that time, it was also illegal for any housewife to take in anyone without the permission of her husband, who could be fined for taking in the homeless - and that without any government money.
What do I do with my anger?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
You're not wrong there Mudfrog.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
IME the big issue with homelessness is substance abuse and mental health issues.
I don't know enough to agree or disagree, but I have seen two other issues.
One is lack of marketable skills, coupled with lack of jobs for the unskilled. If you can't earn enough to pay rent you become homeless even if you are sane and sober.
The other is inability to think ahead. I have a couple of near-homeless friends each of whom, getting a few dollars in hand, spends it on a momentary luxury - a starbucks latte, a piece of cheap jewelry, a meal out instead of eating frugally at home - even though the rent or electric bill is due in a week. Then they fall behind on bills and rack up late fees.
Neither seems to drink or use drugs, although one is addicted to televised sports and pays a lot per month to get the TV sports channels, in between the months the TV gets cut off for non-payment of the bill.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
The other is inability to think ahead.
I know quite a few people like this, with more-or-less chaotic lives. I'm nothing like them - I'm insanely, perhaps pointlessly, frugal - but I think I can perhaps imagine life in their shoes.
If I were cold, hungry and a bit miserable with nothing in the bank (as opposed to a bit chilly, a bit peckish, and miserable with quite a lot in the bank) and the fiver in my pocket would go fuck-all of the way to solving my problems, I think I might spend it on a momentary pleasure. Especially if, given my life chaos, experience might suggest that saving it would equate to losing it.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Another HUGE cause of teen homelessness is the arrival of a stepfather who, cuckoo-like, ejects the adolescent boy out of the house (either deliberately or unwittingly.) A problem that is caused by the arrival of a man whose frustration at a teenager's typical behaviour is not tempered with a father's love.
The number of men who I have spoken to who 'do not get on' with their families is astonishing. It's often the angry stepfather and the powerless mother that starts the process of a boy leaving the house 'in a hurry' and that's that... ;(
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Please do not get at the homeless for buying a consumable luxury. Really seriously those matter enormously! After all "Man does not live by bread alone" and spending on small items.
If experience had taught you that you either spend money immediately or risk someone stealing it from you (common experience among the homeless) would you not spend it on a luxury? Keeping things money, extra clothing, sleeping bags etc is difficult when you are homeless.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I was homeless/vulnerably housed* from 17-21 (this was 2006-2010 so I luckily could access a lot more government services than are available now).
I realise moving to Dead Horses would be very unhelpful, but Dead Horses are a big reason for teenagers having to leave the family home. Even (perhaps moreso) with religious families, yes even Nice Christian Homes. Not sure how to talk about this in a way which doesn't get moved to DH, but there is a thread there talking about homelessness for this reason if you'd like to discuss that too.
I'm not sure if grants are still available to help vulnerably housed people with 'essentials' (I suspect not) but did you know that pots and pans are not classed as essential? Because homeless people don't need to cook food ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
I think Belle Ringer is on the money here. I live with my parents now (chronic depression meant I couldn't deal with uni) and I still have the 'side-effects' of such a chaotic life, especially regarding money.
My church at the time, I suspect, didn't really know what to do with me (conservative evangelical Anglican in E Sussex). I was articulate and neatly dressed and with no substance abuse problems so I feel like I wasn't a 'real' homeless person to them? There's a lot of misconceptions around homelessness in churches, especially around class issues. Also churches tend to see homeless people as an issue rather than human beings, even if they're trying to be kind.
*vulnerably housed - hostel/temporary accommodation. I was under 18 when I became homeless so the council had a duty of care for me, so I lived in a B&B, then YMCA and Stonham hostels.
[ 11. December 2014, 10:05: Message edited by: Pomona ]
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Another HUGE cause of teen homelessness is the arrival of a stepfather who, cuckoo-like, ejects the adolescent boy out of the house (either deliberately or unwittingly.) A problem that is caused by the arrival of a man whose frustration at a teenager's typical behaviour is not tempered with a father's love.
The number of men who I have spoken to who 'do not get on' with their families is astonishing. It's often the angry stepfather and the powerless mother that starts the process of a boy leaving the house 'in a hurry' and that's that... ;(
I'd love to see some numbers to back up your asssertiions:
i) how many homeless in total
ii) how many of them are mentally ill, to the extent where they can't get housed
iii) how many of them have 'substance abuse' issues that do the same
iv) how many stepchildren are driven out of the home
I've no doubt that your personal experience is accurate, but how complete is it, as far as the whole problem of homelessness and the lack of secure housing is concerned?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I don't think mental health issues and substance abuse is locking people out of housing or anything, just that it makes things like keeping appointments, attending jobseeker's allowance interviews etc etc REALLY hard. And that's the kind of thing that means people lose their homes/find it hard to get a home.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I feel the Pareto distribution coming on. 20% might have started out without mental health issues with or without substance abuse and other addictions (gambling, gambling or gambling), without being in care and/or the forces and with a 'good' background. But I can't think of ANY in the 100 I'm well acquainted with over 5 years.
Three exceptions are Bulgarian women.
If you're not mentally ill to start with, you will become so.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
The homeless woman I was trying to help a few years ago discovered could-be roommates or landlords or employers assume "all homeless are on drugs or mentally ill" and automatically reject her even if the interview was going well until the moment she had to state her current address. A mailing or residence address of a social services office is a deal killer.
Job applications even for minimum wage jobs like retail store clerk are on-line only and set up to take more time to compete than the one hour public libraries allow a user, and also set so a partially completed application cannot be saved to complete later.
She went from 3 bedroom house in gated community to homeless via a divorce. Others lose everything via illness or accident, in USA there is no job protection if you get sick or need time to recover from an injury.
If the factory closes to move to Mexico and you are over 40, you are not going to find another job before the rent is due.
I'm not saying there are no mentally ill and/or addicted homeless. But the assumption most homeless are that severely hinders recovery by those who are just unlucky in physical health or shifts in the economic system.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
One problem with counseling, the homeless and near homeless I have chatted with say they don't need counseling, they need jobs!
I would expect counselling as described by Jengie Jon, to include help in writing a CV and job-hunting, possible indirectly by helping the person to fill in the forms for Jobseekers' Allowance, which then provides access to help with CV's, basic IT, literacy skills etc.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
For the 50 people I was with tonight, NONE of that counselling would have been ANY use at all.
I had to leave early to take a guy to A&E who managed to smash his own face in.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
One problem with counseling, the homeless and near homeless I have chatted with say they don't need counseling, they need jobs!
I would expect counselling as described by Jengie Jon, to include help in writing a CV and job-hunting, possible indirectly by helping the person to fill in the forms for Jobseekers' Allowance, which then provides access to help with CV's, basic IT, literacy skills etc.
I'm sure it has its uses, but if you don't have a secure home, it really doesn't help. Employers, banks and just about everything else, don't take you seriously without a reliable address.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
One problem with counseling, the homeless and near homeless I have chatted with say they don't need counseling, they need jobs!
I would expect counselling as described by Jengie Jon, to include help in writing a CV and job-hunting, possible indirectly by helping the person to fill in the forms for Jobseekers' Allowance, which then provides access to help with CV's, basic IT, literacy skills etc.
I'm sure it has its uses, but if you don't have a secure home, it really doesn't help. Employers, banks and just about everything else, don't take you seriously without a reliable address.
JJ was describing the support that is provided along with a home and necessary furnishings, in order to help the person avoid becoming homeless again. I agree that basic IT courses are useless if one is homeless but, as has been said above, a home on its own will not magically solve all problems - at least not in this country. I accept that the US homeless population may look very different from ours due to the lack of welfare provision over there; I have not read of any parents holding down a job while living in a car with their kids in the UK.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The Manna Centre in London provides food, washing facilities, laundry and showers, medical help, an address, access to counselling and support 51 weeks a year.
From Table 780 and 781, in 2013, 28% of homeless people accepted as homeless and in priority need were aged 16-24, 55% were aged 25-40. As to household make up, 20% were families headed by a couple, 46% were lone parent families headed by a woman, 13% were male lone households and 10% were lone female households.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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