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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Unwise Movies/TV
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Sony Films has produced "The Interview", a movie about an assassination attempt on Kim Jung Un, the current president of N. Korea.
Hackers, possibly from N. Korea, have launched quite a campaign against Sony, including leaking all sorts of damaging e-mails, and have issued possible threats. (And NPR news, 2 seconds ago, said the US gov't has reportedly confirmed that the hacking was from N. Korea.)
Sony has now pulled the film, in response to the threats.
So...should "The Interview" have been made? I gather it's very unusual to make this kind of film about a leader who's currently in power.
There's an international incident; a great deal of hurt and damage has been caused by the leaked e-mails; millions of dollars have been wasted; and the hackers went so far as to mention 9/11 in their threat against movie goers.
Was it worth it? And what in the world were they thinking (other than money) when they approved doing "The Interview" in the first place???
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
(Feel free to branch out into other films/shows, general policies, etc.)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Should they have pulled the film in response to threats ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I think so. But WTH were they thinking in doing the film in the first place???
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Sony didn't pull it in response to threats -- it's a bit more complicated than that.
Guardians of Peace threatened 9/11-style attacks on movie theaters showing "The Interview." Sony then said that they would not hold theaters to their contracts to show the movie, and would not penalize them in any way if they chose not to show the movie. The five biggest theater chains in the country pulled the movie. And then Sony cancelled the release of the film.
This is thus in part an economic decision. Most movie theaters in the US are multiplexes showing several different movies at the same time. Who is going to go to a theater on Christmas Day to see any movie when there's a chance the place will be blown up?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
It does make censorship quite easy though. Someone phones in a threat, they may have no means to carry it out, and the project is spiked.
(People are still travelling on planes ...)
[ 17. December 2014, 23:47: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
To go back to the question of "Should this film be made?"
The studio is first and foremost thinking of money. Secondarily it's thinking of making films that appeal to its audience. There's a demand for films which portray national leaders in a bad way or do bad things to them. Since there's freedom to do so in the United States (ignoring the MPAA which is a studio led self censorship) there's not going to be an approval process. In fact, Sony did show a rough cut of the film to the State Department who shrugged and said ok. That has received comment since it's very unusual for a studio to seek such "advice/permission".
Many people in the U.S. dislike the government of North Korea. They see it as a dictatorship which starves it people to get nuclear capability to blackmail its neighbors. So there's a market for unpleasant portrayals of Korean dictators. South Park made a film portraying Kim Jong Il as an alien cockroach
Was it unwise for Chaplin to make the movie "The Great Dictator"? How about Jon Stewart's film Rosewater about a journalist imprisoned and tortured by the Iranian Secret Police?
In an ideal world films, especially satiric ones, can be a powerful protest against dictators and not just a profitable entertainment. Such protests are usually unwise but needed.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Weren't there threats against publisher and book stores when the book Satanic Verses came out?
IIRC, many stores removed the book from displays.
I can't blame those who worry about their safety when threatened, and I'm also glad some cannot be cowed. Should no book or movie be made that might annoy anyone willing to be violent?
The world is changing, hiding might be getting harder, not my decision. Ask Danish cartoonists if some things should be pre-publication banned, or printed in spite of threats. They are more expert than I on the topic and the personal costs.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
It does make censorship quite easy though. Someone phones in a threat, they may have no means to carry it out, and the project is spiked.
(People are still travelling on planes ...)
Point taken. But US intelligence officials have confirmed that North Korea was behind the hack into Sony's computers. Why should we think they have no means to carry out 9/11-style attacks?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
My daughter's firm has been the subject of specific and nasty threats simply for considering responding to a call for tender for a controversial project - as have all the other eligible contractors. Her firm was the only one that dared go public with the threat. Other contractors have already thrown in the towel.
It's an ugly culture in which threats are effective at this level. It validates terrorism as a modus operandi.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
It provided a huge amount of free advertising. The Interview is probably one of those films made on a shoe string - what would have once been called a movie for the bargain bin at the local video store. But suddenly, now everyone wants to see it. It's a clever old ploy and for a movie that probably cost very little to make, they might make a healthy profit from dvd sales and claw back some of that misspent money on ill considered blockbusters.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Point taken. But US intelligence officials have confirmed that North Korea was behind the hack into Sony's computers. Why should we think they have no means to carry out 9/11-style attacks?
Because for all their faults (and despite the opening premise of Olympus Has Fallen) they've not yet shown a propensity for suicide?
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
It provided a huge amount of free advertising. The Interview is probably one of those films made on a shoe string - what would have once been called a movie for the bargain bin at the local video store. But suddenly, now everyone wants to see it. It's a clever old ploy and for a movie that probably cost very little to make, they might make a healthy profit from dvd sales and claw back some of that misspent money on ill considered blockbusters.
You think Sony pretended to hack itself and released "emails between employees of Sony Pictures Entertainment, information about executive salaries at the company, copies of unreleased Sony films" and its employees' "Social Security numbers and medical information" ( Wikipedia) ... as a publicity stunt?
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
It provided a huge amount of free advertising. The Interview is probably one of those films made on a shoe string - what would have once been called a movie for the bargain bin at the local video store. But suddenly, now everyone wants to see it. It's a clever old ploy and for a movie that probably cost very little to make, they might make a healthy profit from dvd sales and claw back some of that misspent money on ill considered blockbusters.
If you consider $45 million a "shoe string".
And what Dave W. said.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Arminian
Shipmate
# 16607
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Posted
I don't know why they're just making a film about assassinating the North Korean leader. Why not do the world a favor and spend the money on actually doing it ?
This odious little man is responsible for some of the worst pain and suffering on the planet, all to demonstrate he is a 'God'. Its a sad day when a dictator can demonstrate power over our democracies.
I hope they give the film away free and print a couple of billion DVD's to give away just to spite him. North Korea might be able to threaten a few big profile theater events but they can't intimidate the rest of the world at once.
Lets not forget that even saying you're a Christian in North Korea is virtually a death sentence not just for you, but for three generations of your family. I have no sympathy with Kim Jong-Un. I hope he repents or dies.
Posts: 157 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2011
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I don't know that it was a good idea to make the movie in the first place (I'm not into kill movies of any type), but having made it, it's a pity to crumble in response to terror threats.
Why not place it on YouTube?
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Dave:
quote:
You think Sony pretended to hack itself and released "emails between employees of Sony Pictures Entertainment, information about executive salaries at the company, copies of unreleased Sony films" and its employees' "Social Security numbers and medical information" ( Wikipedia) ... as a publicity stunt?
Where did I say the whole thing was a publicity stunt pulled by Sony? When bad things happen to shit movies, distributors have a tendency to capitalise. 'Sony Pictures Under Attack' - you couldn't pay for better. Capitalisation on a poorly thought out film does not always translate as insider orchestration. And have you seen the trailer? It looks shit. For God's sake it has Rob Lowe in it; how much more bargain basement can you get? Although admittedly spending $17million of your budget on two actors might have been unwise, but these days $45million is a snip. Most holiday blockbuster films are coming in at the hundreds of millions.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Here's some actual data to inform these discussions of what a shoe string is and how good the movie was. Among action comedies released by major studios this century, it had a pretty average budget and a very average rotten tomatoes rating. In those two categories, it was very typical of its genre.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It isn't the Kim dynasty alone though, is it? It's the whole military machine. And the chief argument against tyrannicide. There's always another one along in a minute.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arminian:
I don't know why they're just making a film about assassinating the North Korean leader. Why not do the world a favor and spend the money on actually doing it ?
Sony has its fingers in lots of pies these days, but I'm not sure that assassinating foreign leaders is really part of its core brand.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
I don't care. It seems assassination movies are made every so often. Some Brits made one about Bush being killed. It seems someone made a film about Thatcher being killed. This all sounds like a publicity stunt, that's all.
My wife and I rarely go to the movies, anyway. Come to think of it, the last one we went to was Calvary. It was about a Roman Catholic priest getting aired out.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It seems assassination movies are made every so often. Some Brits made one about Bush being killed. It seems someone made a film about Thatcher being killed.
But, as Arminian said upthread:
quote:
Originally posted by Arminian:
This odious little man is responsible for some of the worst pain and suffering on the planet. . . . I hope he repents or dies.
Bush, OK. Thatcher, OK. Julius Caesar, OK. But I have to admit that when I first saw the previews for The Interview I said to myself, "Uh oh, somebody is looking for trouble."
We should have learned by now that this "odious little man" is not to be toyed with. The world should simply ignore him completely. No media coverage, no Western visitors, certainly no assassination films. Maybe he'll wither up and go away.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
There are assassination movies and assassination movies. It all depends on how you approach the subject. I don't like Kim Jong-Un either, but I can see why he might be ever-so-slightly miffed at being portrayed as a slavish follower of an American chat show... in a film that is meant to be a comedy, and presumably has a 'happy' ending (in that the American protagonists survive and American cultural imperialism triumphs). I would not be at all surprised to learn that he is more offended by the suggestion that he likes an American TV show than by the idea that the CIA wants to assassinate him.
Compare and contrast with, for example, The Day of the Jackal, which is all about an attempt to assassinate Charles de Gaulle (at a time when genuine attempts on his life were being made and published only a short time after the Kennedy assassination). The reader's (or viewer's) sympathy is engaged on behalf of the leader who is at risk and the detectives trying to track down the assassin. The attempt fails, the assassin is killed, Justice and Civilization triumph.
Not the same kind of thing at all, and that's why some people found Hilary Mantel's short story about the assassination of Margaret Thatcher objectionable. Because she thought it would have been a Good Thing.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Not the same kind of thing at all, and that's why some people found Hilary Mantel's short story about the assassination of Margaret Thatcher objectionable. Because she thought it would have been a Good Thing.
Do we know this? Or do we know that she has written a piece a fiction in which a character thinks this? Exploring the interaction between a strong emotion and the opportunity to actualise it has to be a major motor of fiction. How many novels boil down to A loves/hates/covets/fears etc X: the plot confronts A with X: what happens?
Everything that is not a painstaking historical reconstruction is a What if?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
(People are still travelling on planes ...)
Security is better and alternatives fewer.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Firenze: quote:
Do we know this? Or do we know that she has written a piece a fiction in which a character thinks this? Exploring the interaction between a strong emotion and the opportunity to actualise it has to be a major motor of fiction. How many novels boil down to A loves/hates/covets/fears etc X: the plot confronts A with X: what happens?
Everything that is not a painstaking historical reconstruction is a What if?
Fair comment. I must confess I have not read the story myself, not being a Hilary Mantel fan; what I meant to say was that she suggested (in the story) that it would have been a Good Thing. I should have expressed myself more clearly.
As Aslan says, nobody is ever told what would have happened, but it is possible that a different Tory PM would have done more or less the same things as she did. So assassinating her might have had no effect on history; or it might have made things worse, with a backlash against all political dissent.
[ 18. December 2014, 16:37: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
It provided a huge amount of free advertising. The Interview is probably one of those films made on a shoe string - what would have once been called a movie for the bargain bin at the local video store. But suddenly, now everyone wants to see it. It's a clever old ploy and for a movie that probably cost very little to make, they might make a healthy profit from dvd sales and claw back some of that misspent money on ill considered blockbusters.
It probably would have gotten pretty good box office. The stars, Seth Rogen and James Franco, have had several highly successful movies both together and individually.
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Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Let's have a sense of proportion on this.
It's very disturbing that anyone should be suggesting Sony did wrong in making a film that mocks a particularly nasty dictator, rather than bemoaning the fact that he has enough clout in hyperspace to force them to remove the film from circulation.
Any 'international incident' has been generated by the manipulations of a person and a regime that we'd all rather didn't exist, yet alone didn't have the ability to reach outside its own boundaries.
Sony may have been prudent to back down, but it's a sad day that they have had to do so.
That's it, as far as I'm concerned. I can't see that there's anything to debate about this.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Posted by Dave:
quote:
You think Sony pretended to hack itself and released "emails between employees of Sony Pictures Entertainment, information about executive salaries at the company, copies of unreleased Sony films" and its employees' "Social Security numbers and medical information" (Wikipedia) ... as a publicity stunt?
Where did I say the whole thing was a publicity stunt pulled by Sony? When bad things happen to shit movies, distributors have a tendency to capitalise. 'Sony Pictures Under Attack' - you couldn't pay for better. Capitalisation on a poorly thought out film does not always translate as insider orchestration.
You're right - you really haven't made any clear statements at all. You said "It provided a huge amount of free advertising" and "It's a clever old ploy" without providing an antecedent for either instance of "it".
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Should they have pulled the film in response to threats ?
Well I suppose pulling it does demonstrate that it is possible for someone to challenge the USA without being nuked or invaded in return.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Re: The Interview
It is inconceivable that someone in the US 'intelligence' world wasn't aware of the film, the subject matter - in fact they probably had a copy of the script.
What is mindblowing is that no one had the mother wit to realise this would cause outrage in North Korea - after all, how would most Americans feel if a film (comedy or otherwise) was made about the assassination of a POTUS?
As for all the slebs lining up to protest about the film being pulled and citing 'free speech' - they're just parading their ignorance as usual. And I'm sure, in any case, there are better authorities for good behaviour, decency and tact in international relations than Mia Farrow, etc.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Well I suppose pulling it does demonstrate that it is possible for someone to challenge the USA without being nuked or invaded in return.
The whole sad business puts me in the embarrassing position of having to agree with Newt Gingrich, who tweeted to the effect that America had fought its first cyberwar, and lost.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Well I suppose pulling it does demonstrate that it is possible for someone to challenge the USA without being nuked or invaded in return.
The whole sad business puts me in the embarrassing position of having to agree with Newt Gingrich, who tweeted to the effect that America had fought its first cyberwar, and lost.
The first one? I guess Professor Gingrich is showing his usual perspicacity and keen appreciation of recent history.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
What is mindblowing is that no one had the mother wit to realise this would cause outrage in North Korea - after all, how would most Americans feel if a film (comedy or otherwise) was made about the assassination of a POTUS?
You mean something like this film made by some Brits?
Sony has wussed out. Shame on 'em. I guess I now know that whatever they put out from now on at least has the approval of NK's number one asshole.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
after all, how would most Americans feel if a film (comedy or otherwise) was made about the assassination of a POTUS?
You mean one hasn't?
(Cross-posted with Mere Nick.)
[ 19. December 2014, 14:01: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Let's have a sense of proportion on this.
It's very disturbing that anyone should be suggesting Sony did wrong in making a film that mocks a particularly nasty dictator, rather than bemoaning the fact that he has enough clout in hyperspace to force them to remove the film from circulation.
Any 'international incident' has been generated by the manipulations of a person and a regime that we'd all rather didn't exist, yet alone didn't have the ability to reach outside its own boundaries.
Sony may have been prudent to back down, but it's a sad day that they have had to do so.
That's it, as far as I'm concerned. I can't see that there's anything to debate about this.
This. After all, in this age of infotainment, how far a step is it from here to North Korea dictating the content of our news programs?
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Re: The Interview
It is inconceivable that someone in the US 'intelligence' world wasn't aware of the film, the subject matter - in fact they probably had a copy of the script.
What is mindblowing is that no one had the mother wit to realise this would cause outrage in North Korea - after all, how would most Americans feel if a film (comedy or otherwise) was made about the assassination of a POTUS?
As for all the slebs lining up to protest about the film being pulled and citing 'free speech' - they're just parading their ignorance as usual. And I'm sure, in any case, there are better authorities for good behaviour, decency and tact in international relations than Mia Farrow, etc.
I’m no fan of Mia Farrow either. Nor, to the best of my knowledge, has SONY been elevated to overseeing US foreign policy.
First Amendment rights, though, are another matter. Sure, this is a film I wouldn’t cross the street to view; the few Hollywood-made political satires I’ve seen tend to be ham-fisted and dumb. In the grand scheme of things, the film’s no more worth protecting than the guys who burn flags, the moms who demand creationism in their 7th-graders’ science books, the Phelpses’ picketings and the KKK. It’s no less worth protecting either, though.
When we grant people the right to free expression, we inevitably open ourselves to a certain amount of rubbish. And when we censor ourselves at the behest of a foreign dictator, we surrender to him the right to decide what is rubbish and what isn’t, which "rubbish" he'll let us see and hear, and which "rubbish" we’ll never even know the existence of.
The pulling of this film just adds another to the long list of reasons why government shouldn’t and can’t be run by or like businesses. Profit – or in this case, liability – will never be an adequate substitute for human rights. Or spine.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
When we grant people the right to free expression
Rights aren't granted. You have them whether others realize it or not.
quote:
And when we censor ourselves at the behest of a foreign dictator, we surrender to him the right to decide what is rubbish and what isn’t, which "rubbish" he'll let us see and hear, and which "rubbish" we’ll never even know the existence of.
I imagine shareholders wonder how the guy all of a sudden became the head honcho.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
[QUOTE]And when we censor ourselves at the behest of a foreign dictator, we surrender to him the right to decide what is rubbish and what isn’t, which "rubbish" he'll let us see and hear, and which "rubbish" we’ll never even know the existence of.
I imagine shareholders wonder how the guy all of a sudden became the head honcho.
Shareholders understand a business decision when they see one. They know this wasn't about free speech or censorship. It was about the public perception of safety at movie theaters and the impact of that perception upon box office receipts.
In the US, most movie theaters are multi-plexes showing multiple movies at the same time, and many malls have movie theaters in them. Also, the Christmas-time box office is normally huge; entertainment companies are looking to make a lot of money this time of year. If Sony hadn't cancelled the nation-wide release of "The Interview," it's very likely that the so-called Guardians of Peace would have issued more threats and a lot of people would simply have stayed away from movie theaters entirely, and also kept out of a fair number of malls. A whole lot of companies would have lost a whole lot of money. Sony's competitors will gain from this because their movies will get some of the money that would have been made by Sony this Christmas, but overall the movie business would have taken a huge hit if the movie had gone forward.
Folks can cry "free speech" all they want, but huge entertainment conglomerates do not exist to further free speech. They exist to make money.
[ 19. December 2014, 15:44: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Fr Weber
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
What is mindblowing is that no one had the mother wit to realise this would cause outrage in North Korea - after all, how would most Americans feel if a film (comedy or otherwise) was made about the assassination of a POTUS?
I might or might not find it offensive, but I guaran-goddam-tee you that I wouldn't threaten the film company with violence if they released it.
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Anglican't
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# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Shareholders understand a business decision when they see one. They know this wasn't about free speech or censorship. It was about the public perception of safety at movie theaters and the impact of that perception upon box office receipts.
Are these things mutually exclusive? Saying, effectively, 'I won't do anything if you show Film A, but if you show Film B I will bomb your cinema' is a form of censorship, is it not? As well as, of course, a safety issue.
[ 19. December 2014, 15:53: Message edited by: Anglican't ]
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Mere Nick
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# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Shareholders understand a business decision when they see one. They know this wasn't about free speech or censorship. It was about the public perception of safety at movie theaters and the impact of that perception upon box office receipts.
So Sony shareholders now understand and accept that one can thug their way into determining what Sony produces? Really?
quote:
In the US, most movie theaters are multi-plexes showing multiple movies at the same time, and many malls have movie theaters in them. Also, the Christmas-time box office is normally huge; entertainment companies are looking to make a lot of money this time of year. If Sony hadn't cancelled the nation-wide release of "The Interview," it's very likely that the so-called Guardians of Peace would have issued more threats and a lot of people would simply have stayed away from movie theaters entirely, and also kept out of a fair number of malls. A whole lot of companies would have lost a whole lot of money. Sony's competitors will gain from this because their movies will get some of the money that would have been made by Sony this Christmas, but overall the movie business would have taken a huge hit if the movie had gone forward.
Great. I guess the next time I go to the flicks I can bask in the safety of knowing I am watching a film approved by the Guardians of Peace.
quote:
Folks can cry "free speech" all they want, but huge entertainment conglomerates do not exist to further free speech. They exist to make money.
Yes, I don't think anyone disagrees that people in companies work for the same reason you do.
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Delmar O'Donnell
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Porridge
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
When we grant people the right to free expression
Rights aren't granted. You have them whether others realize it or not.
I'm sure the people of North Korea take great comfort from this.
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
When we grant people the right to free expression
Rights aren't granted. You have them whether others realize it or not.
I'm sure the people of North Korea take great comfort from this.
Now you know why their government sucks.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
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Posted
Posted by Dave W:
quote:
....without providing an antecedent for either instance of "it".
Well, one example - a famous one - would be A Clockwork Orange. That film was pulled by Kubrick himself even though it was arguably his finest work. He as director pulled it (although it also involved and directly effected the producers and distributors) after growing tired of the sensationalist headlines, the claims of a copycat killing and outrage expressed by some against the films contents. He quite literally ensured that it stayed out of circulation for as long as he lived. Within days of pulling the film he basically ensured its lasting fame. Long, long before it ever again saw the light of day it was already being hailed as a masterpiece of modern cinema and considered by many as a part of the sacred canon of twentieth century cinematic works. Since Kubrick's death and the subsequent re-release of the film it now frequently appears in lists of the greatest films ever made. There are some who would still claim Kubrick pulled it because he had no choice, but he wasn't as repentant about it (even after the so-called copycat killing) as his detractors would have hoped for. It was quite a coup for Kubrick and I hope he knows it now; I'm sure he did even when alive though.
There are many other examples, but I thought I would go with the most famous one and a film I think of as being very good, but you will still find some critics who still feel it is essentially an indulgence of violence and a poorly adapted book.
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Staretz Silouan
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I have seen clockwork orange, I am not convinced the premise and its execution are streets ahead of many good sci fi films - but what stuck with me was just how unpleasant the rape scene was.
It is not something I'd watch again.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Fr Weber
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# 13472
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Posted
I will point out, though, that Kubrick had the film withdrawn in Britain only. I saw it in the theater at least twice during the early 1980s in the USA.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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Porridge
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Posted
According to Wikipedia (whose URL for this I can't use here due to included parentheses, but you can easily look up A Clockwork Orange for yourself), significant differences exist between the British and US versions of both the film and the novel on which it's based, so some Pond-based confusion may ensue. I didn't recall the rape scene (maybe I simply repressed it)mentioned by doubelthink, and found that bits of it may have been cut from the film I saw. And the US book publisher insisted on and got from Burgess a "happy ending" for the novel, which Kubrick didn't employ in the film.
(Crossposted with Fr Weber)
[ 19. December 2014, 22:02: Message edited by: Porridge ]
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
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Kaplan Corday
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# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
As Aslan says, nobody is ever told what would have happened, but it is possible that a different Tory PM would have done more or less the same things as she did. So assassinating her might have had no effect on history; or it might have made things worse, with a backlash against all political dissent.
Rem acu tetigisti.
Well done.
The only relevant ethical issue to consider when deciding whether or not to assassinate a democratically elected political leader is a calculation of the possible consequences.
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Golden Key
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# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
According to Wikipedia (whose URL for this I can't use here due to included parentheses, but you can easily look up A Clockwork Orange for yourself), significant differences exist between the British and US versions of both the film and the novel on which it's based, so some Pond-based confusion may ensue.
Similarly with the UK and US versions of the series "Life On Mars". The bulk of the stories are the same, but they take some wildly divergent turns.
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Dave W.
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# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Posted by Dave W:
quote:
....without providing an antecedent for either instance of "it".
Well, one example - a famous one - would be A Clockwork Orange...
...
... but you will still find some critics who still feel it is essentially an indulgence of violence and a poorly adapted book.
No - I meant you didn't supply the grammatical antecedent of "it" - i.e., what exactly were you claiming Sony did, specifically as a "ploy"; I wasn't inquiring about historical precedents.
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Palimpsest
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# 16772
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Posted
Anthony Burgess hated the movie Kubrick made of his book.
I've only seen the American version. It's a very powerful but dishonest film in how it manipulates the audience into like a horrible person.
Paramount just cancelled the screenings of Team America: World Police the film I mentioned earlier that portrays Kim Jong Il as an alien cockroach.
It's sad to watch the studios caving. A number of theater has specifically scheduled Team America to fill the slot created by the Sony Picture being pulled. They were aware of the risks and willing to let the audience decide if they wanted to take the risk to keep their freedom of speech. It's too bad the studios lacked courage to do so. I suppose we'll be seeing threats to Paramount from people who don't like the reboot of Star Trek and will be forcing it to shut down.
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