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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bible study ruts
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I was in a Bible study led by a woman juggling career, graduate degree, kids, marriage, house. She chose a Bible study (DVD,workbooks) about frazzled living. Then another about getting priorities right in busy world, then etc. After a couple years I teased her about her one topic. She had no idea she was doing that. She would go to a Bible study bookstore, wander around, pick one that caught her eye. What resonated with her was "overly busy life."
So she switched to a Beth Moore study, then another, then another. Beth Moore is usually a fine teacher, but after while it's pretty much more of the same. Any teacher has a basic viewpoint and themes they recurringly refer to, missing whole other aspects of the Bible or whole other interpretations of events.
When they ran out of Beth Moore, she transferred leadership to a woman whose favorite topic is Hell. Some people LOVE the topic of Hell. Find it fascinating study after study. They are starting a multi-week series on Hell. I've decided I'm too busy for a while.
I could start a Bible study, like at church (there aren't any), but I'd probably fall into the same unthinking habit of choosing studies that resonate with me, which would probably be a narrow few themes.
How do you avoid that common human tendency? A group leader has to want to engage the subject matter, but that so easily leads to a rut.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The obvious thing for a leader to do would be to open up the decisions of what to study to the rest of the group.
Apparently (we had to study this, the Archdeacon said, before we could appoint a new vicar) it all comes down to leadership style. Do you want an dictator (who tells everyone what to do), a benevolent autocrat (who still tells everyone what to do, but kindly and with consideration for others), or a team player (who discusses options with all the others, who then come to a joint decision), or a responsibility avoider (who hands over all leadership tasks to others who call the shots at all times).
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
The obvious thing for a leader to do would be to open up the decisions of what to study to the rest of the group.
Apparently (we had to study this, the Archdeacon said, before we could appoint a new vicar) it all comes down to leadership style. Do you want an dictator (who tells everyone what to do), a benevolent autocrat (who still tells everyone what to do, but kindly and with consideration for others), or a team player (who discusses options with all the others, who then come to a joint decision), or a responsibility avoider (who hands over all leadership tasks to others who call the shots at all times).
Which one did you decide you wanted, and did you get him or her?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
So she switched to a Beth Moore study, then another, then another. Beth Moore is usually a fine teacher, but after while it's pretty much more of the same. Any teacher has a basic viewpoint and themes they recurringly refer to, missing whole other aspects of the Bible or whole other interpretations of events.
*tangent* As a fellow evangelical, I find Beth Moore fine-- even occasionally brilliant-- when she sticks to the biblical stuff. The problem is she almost never does. She starts off-roading into social/political commentary, inserting various unscientific theories about dead-horse topics that she dug up from the Family Research Council. I found this so personally offensive that despite whatever spiritual benefit I found in her biblical insights my soul was consistently blackened from the effort of not screaming in frustration every 10 min. as she off roaded yet again. I managed to get about 4 weeks into one of her studies before having to quit before I did some permanent damage.
[ 17. January 2015, 20:06: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
I've been thinking a lot about bible teaching in the context of kids' ministry lately and I've come to the conclusion that you'll always fall into a rut if you try to teach "topics". Maybe occasionally it's ok but it starts to become legalistic and rules based. It also smacks of a Christian self-help movement too, which to my mind encourages the sort of self-absorption and questing after a perfect life based on external measures rather than being based on a closer walk with God.
I hate to go all Sydney-Anglican but I think bible studies should usually be a careful and informed examination and discussion of .....the bible. Ideally the leader should draw on a wide variety of resources to inform the study (i.e. not 1 little $1.99 booklet called a study on Phillipians or whatever) . There should be some hesitation in rushing to conclude how whatever we've just read needs to be applied in real life.
The problem is, that this approach can require a lot of the bible study leader-it's fine if you've got a theological degree but can be difficult to take time to fully understand the history, context and competing points of view about key points if you haven't studied it before. I like the idea of people taking turns to lead a study on something that they've taken the time to prepare for thoroughly-this might not suit all groups of course.
I do believe though, that there should be consultation about what is studied and how it is done, even if the final decision is the leader's. At least the discussion shows that there is some thought being put into what is studied rather than just walking into a shop and picking something that appeals to you at that moment in time.
I'm not sure how your group functions but sometimes a complete change of pace can overcome a rut, something like trying the Ignatian spiritual exercises or prayer meetings or a time of spiritual journalling that people talk about over the course of a few weeks. It needs to be something that somebody in the group has a passion for though, so that they inspire everyone to get onboard.
Good luck, I'm interested to hear how things progress.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
I lead a lively Bible study group who constantly challenge me by asking questions I don't know how to answer. I encourage it. I look up the information for the next meeting. We have had great fun exploring Old Testament stories and characters. We avoid tedium by reading whole chapters at a time, taking it in turns to read, so that we grasp the bigger picture rather than stopping every other verse to analyse it. As each has a different version of the Bible, we have to focus to keep our place, and manage to take in the various interpretations and question them.
I pick the next book or story, but listen to the consensus of what they would like, while making sure that it is varied.
They are happy to begin and end with prayer, but the one time I tried 'lectio divina' it was a disaster. It was too different from the familiar format.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I love/hate bible study, some of my closest to God moments have been with others reading and sharing on the Bible, especially the Gospels.Some of the most controlling and limiting moments
in my life have been in "Bible Study" which in truth felt like little more than indoctrination. I think Raptor hits it on the head with his style of leading. Enabling, opening up and being ready to spend three hours on one verse if it hits a rich vein.
I dislike themed studies as they too often have an agenda. What God is doing saying to me and my community is not the same as what He may be saying to you and yours. And trying to get everyone thinking the same smacks of thought-police. God I have sat through some punishing shit in my time. Little-faiths trying to make sure that God fits in their box nicely, and straining to get everyone agree to them while the Spirit pokes Her head in the door sees a bunch of wanna-be ostriches sighs and moves on. The final irony, the words of freedom used to chain down.
I like some structure either the lectionary or going slowly through a complete book (See Gospel of John in Eccles). And while it is necessary to have some degree of leadership and a modicum of biblical knowledge the real key for me is summed up in this sentence:
Don't tell me what the Bible/verse/passage means, tell me what it means to you, right here, right now.
Fly Safe,
Pyx_e
[ 19. January 2015, 09:15: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Like anything else to avoid a rut, variety is the key.
I would support suggestions already made:
1) Have different people leading the studies - this gives variety of leadership, allows each leader more time to prepare each study, and allows the leaders to not always be in charge.
2) Keep preparation to a minimum. I would say that the most important thing for a Bible study is for someone to have questions to be discussed. The worst thing is for someone to have the answers already prepared (especially if they're the leader and they leap in to tell everyone the answer if people pause a microsecond to think before discussing it).
3) Avoid themes. Thematic Bible studies can be useful, if the theme is particularly relevant for the group at that time. But, IMO, should be used very sparingly (like salt in a meal, just a little but too much and it's inedible). Thematic studies are also much more difficult to pull off well - it's very easy to have the discussion with an agenda already defined, much easier for people to think there is a "correct answer", etc
4) Follow books. The best studies I've ever been to/led have all followed a Biblical book. Work through an Epistle, then an OT book, then a Gospel. Mix things around. You'll need to read and discuss a fairly large chunk of text at a time to read the whole of most books in a reasonable amount of time (in some cases you might be able to do a few studies on, for example, minor prophets and read each book in one or two sessions). A hint I've found useful is to get one of those "Bible in a year" books; taking what they suggest as a break down for a days reading of a book would be about right for a single session if you want to get through a book in 10-15 sessions (a Bible study that takes 3 years to work through Romans is in a rut!).
5) Allow the group input into the discussion. That's both in selecting what to study in the future ("we'll be finishing the current book in a few weeks, what book do you want to study next?") but also during a study - if the group are really into a discussion of a couple of verses, don't hurry them on because of a desire to cover the whole passage read, or to reach the bit that interests you.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
I'm not sure how your group functions but sometimes a complete change of pace can overcome a rut, something like trying the Ignatian spiritual exercises or prayer meetings or a time of spiritual journalling that people talk about over the course of a few weeks. It needs to be something that somebody in the group has a passion for though, so that they inspire everyone to get onboard.
Like it!
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Don't tell me what the Bible/verse/passage means, tell me what it means to you, right here, right now.
Like it!
IMO, Bible studies (even well-researched, well-led ones) can often be academic exercises that don't really touch the soul at all. It's so easy to have an oh-so-interesting discussion and leave the meeting totally unchanged and untransformed.
But I don't think we should meet together in order to learn some more things, we should meet together to encourage, strengthen and challenge one another in our faith. Sometimes, I'm sure, a Bible study will be just the ticket, but other times it won't be...
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've got a lot of time for 'lectio-divina' but think it works best in the right context ... some contexts aren't right for it.
I've joined with our local RCs for their Lenten 'lectio-divina' on a number of occasions and always found that helpful.
The reason I've found it so, I think, is because it's a method that has come 'from' that particular tradition and they have used it long enough for it to 'fit' and for them to feel comfortable with - rather like a worn-in pair of shoes ... or comfortable slippers ...
I can see it working elsewhere but perhaps not in the same way. It's a bit like local ales that taste great within a 40 mile radius, say, but if you had a pint of one of them further afield you'd wonder what all the fuss was about ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Our Bible Studies in Home Group tend to be gruesome. The Book is chosen by the Elders,with no reference to anyone else, and the questions follow a course, the title of which I forget, but its got "Life" in it somewhere (well, it would, wouldn't it?) and I think originates from Willow Creek.
The questions either require you to go along the text with your eye and then read out the appropriate verse, or ask such intimate and personal questions as to strike the group dumb.
Coffee is good, though ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicodemia:
The questions either require you to go along the text with your eye and then read out the appropriate verse, or ask such intimate and personal questions as to strike the group dumb.
Coffee is good, though
Sounds familiar from days in Elim Pentecostal. Given a mix of three liberals, one gobby American and a slightly odd fundamentalist family. I tended to find the awkward silent times the best as it meant no one was trying to shout over one another and the conservatives weren't saying something dumb to make blood boil with righteous indignation. But yes, good coffee.
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I dislike themed studies as they too often have an agenda.
Count me as someone else who dislikes Bible study by proof-text.
There isn't necessarily anything wrong about a course of lectures and discussions on how to make space for a Christian life in a high-paced, frazzled world, say, but that's not a Bible study.
I'd agree with about everything Alan said, and would add that, if you have enough people, you should try to mix up your Bible study groups as well, so you're not always getting viewpoints from the same few people.
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
IMO, Bible studies (even well-researched, well-led ones) can often be academic exercises that don't really touch the soul at all.
I'm an academic. Well-researched academic exercises are the way to my soul Anybody using the words "I feel" when they mean "I think" is the way to make me switch off.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
]I'm an academic. Well-researched academic exercises are the way to my soul Anybody using the words "I feel" when they mean "I think" is the way to make me switch off.
Actually, a person who says "I feel" where you would say "I think" is likely being rather honest. They probably don't do a lot of thinking (on academic lines) as much as a lot of feeling. At least you know their basic stance.
(I say "I feel" on many occasions because I know damned well I haven't thought my opinion out well and would be hard pressed to defend it. Fell free to switch off. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It's probably the 'Purpose-Driven Life', Nicodemia.
I sometimes think my 'purpose' in life should be to track down all copies and shred them ...
They'd make great compost ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Oh good, someone else who hates Purpose Driven Life. They made us read it at our church -- just handing money to the author and publisher. Awful.
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Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
It's been a while since we've had a Purpose Driven thread, but there would be quite a few people here who will express similar sentiments. This rant is one that survived into Limbo
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
To give Warren some credit, he did state on page 231 “The last thing many believers need today is to go to another Bible study”, as noted when I had a go at fisking him.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
No, its not The Purpose Driven Life, I know and loathe that!! Something like Life Course, or maybe Discipleship Course, (or even Life and Discipleship Course!) Pretty sure its from Willlow Creek Church. Somewhere near NY State??
Anyway, there is a DVD with it, but we are mercifully saved from that, as the Elders/Preachers are going to do it in their own fair words.
I don't recommend it. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
fyi: Willow Creek is in Illinois, not NY.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
My church recently assigned PDL to all small groups. The first line of my sermon yesterday was "The thing that most irritated me about 'The Purpose-Driven Life'..."
I shall take the implicit warning in this thread to heart, and refrain from starting my next 39 sermons "Another thing that irritated me about 'The Purpose-Driven Life'..."
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Cathscats
Shipmate
# 17827
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Posted
My churches have just started using the New Testament volume of "The Books of the Bible" and will read the entire New Testament, though not in the usual order of books, in eight weeks. Obviously we are committing to doing reading at home! The study meetings function more along the lines of book groups. We are excited by the idea so far!
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"...damp hands and theological doubts - the two always seem to go together..." (O. Douglas, "The Setons")
Posts: 176 | From: Central Highlands | Registered: Sep 2013
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
The thing that irritated me (read: drove me to flaming rage) about PDL was his use of a bazillion different translations of the Bible just so he could twist scripture to agree with him.
After the first week's Bible study, I point blank refused to go again until we were done. And, IIRC, me and Mrs Tor used the time to go to the cinema.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
me and Mrs Tor used the time to go to the cinema.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Leprechaun
Ship's Poison Elf
# 5408
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
My church recently assigned PDL to all small groups.
Aren't they about 15 years behind the curve?!
Call me crazy, I like my Bible studies to be about, y'know, studying the Bible. And the Bible is written in books.
Start at the beginning of a book, read a bit, discuss what it means and what it has to do with us, pray about it. Rinse and repeat.
All these mega-Christians, supposedly Protestant, making money out of something that should be simple makes me wonder if they have ever heard of the Reformation.
Posts: 3097 | From: England - far from home... | Registered: Jan 2004
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
Our bible study groups (not that I regularly attend one now) study whatever was preached the Sunday before which, as our sermons run in a series, might be based on a book or be thematic. Groups do have overall leaders but people take turns to lead and host the group and people will come with different approaches. I don't think church gives out any notes to the leaders but from my experience people will come with their own preparation anyway. This was also my experience when we used to run the parish church bible study (before we left the church due to the rather traumatic split), members turned up well prepared, especially the older members who were often ex-university lecturers, and discussion would be lively. In that group topics were chosen by suggestions from the group membership.
[ 20. January 2015, 09:35: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leprechaun:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
My church recently assigned PDL to all small groups.
...
All these mega-Christians, supposedly Protestant, making money out of something that should be simple makes me wonder if they have ever heard of the Reformation.
But making money out of religion is okay when the right people are doing it.
We found it best if you either followed a book in the Bible or specific characters. Themes were fine, but you had to be careful that the book gave all the different intreptations weight.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
We found it best if you either followed a book in the Bible or specific characters.
I have been in Bible study groups that followed a specific character. The first one we studied was David. I wondered why God liked him so much considering some of the things he got up to.
Then I noticed that he repented quickly and whole-heartedly. This is how he pleased God.
Moo
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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
Our Bible study group loved the story of David better than any of the others, despite (or perhaps because of? ) the craziness of his dancing, the dodging of Saul, the horror of the slaughter in war, the shock of his affair, the wickedness of his treatment of his lover's husband, the sadness of the baby's demise. He was very human. The group couldn't wait for the next thrilling episode, and still talk about David in an animated way.
This, to me, is what the Bible should do: bring us alive in a way that helps us to want to turn toward and focus on God.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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