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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Great Big Cruise Liners
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Someone I know is going on another cruise this spring (he went on two last year), on P+O's latest and largest ship.....
......I dunno. I don't begrudge him and His Lovely Wife (that's how he usually refers to her in conversation!) a well-earned and carefree holiday, but I do wonder about the carbon footprint of these huge vessels, the possible exploitation of their crews - often, I understand, from Third World countries - and what must be a prodigal amount of food consumed (if what my acquaintance tells me is true).
Thoughts?
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
If I were on a cruise, I'd probably start throwing random people overboard somewhere in the second afternoon.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
They keep the riff-raff all in one place. I have been to several tourist spots, where we were tootling around on bikes. The liners would disgorge passengers on to 6 (!) coaches, which would then drive up to some 'must see' attraction, spew out their cargoes who would then wander round for half an hour taking photos - then pour back onto the coaches and ships, leaving the place nice and quiet for us tootlers to enjoy again. Finding our own way everywhere with plenty of space and choice.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Gwai: At random? Couldn't you at least start with the annoying ones?
I'm afraid that after spending such an amount of time locked up with a bunch of other people, in an environment completely geared towards consumption, everyone will be annoying to me. I love humanity, but in small doses.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I can't really get my head around these things either, but judging by their proliferation they must be serving some sort of need. You can usually rely on seeing a couple of them tied up in Southampton whenever you drive past the docks. To me they just look like colossal floating apartment blocks, which I suppose is what they are.
Here's a pic. of P&O's latest, which I take it is what Bishop's Finger refers to. It's designed to carry 3647 passengers. The thing is, whenever you drop anchor off somewhere (don't expect to tie up in most places on a gin-palace of this size), you'll have about half a day onshore, with an almost continuous shuttle of the tender to get people there and back. Miss it and they won't wait - expect to make your own way to the next port of call.
I can well understand why cruising might appeal, but surely something smaller and less soul-less would be the way to go? But obviously not.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Apparently the British port most visited by cruise ships is...
Kirkwall!
Much as I love Orkney, I'm really not sure why, given the "If it's Tuesday it must be Belgium" itineraries.
Whilst I love the idea of visiting places by boat, the thought of doing it on a whistle-stop tour with thousands of other people is a big no no.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
They remind me of nothing else but the Most Destructive Party of All Time from the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy.
And I've seen The Posidon Adventure too many times, so no. Not my bag.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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AngloCatholicGirl
Shipmate
# 16435
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Posted
In my home town the local port is trying to expand in the face of huge opposition. One of the things they were surprised to find out is that we did not consider the ability to dock these huge ships as a benefit. In order to accommodate the huge docks required, the port would need to expand into our historic residential district (which surely would be the reason people would come in the first place, so tearing down a quarter of it probably isn't a great idea)
Also, most of the passengers are whisked away on pre-paid tours organised by the cruise line and little if any of that money reaches the local community, not to mention that if 3000+ passengers did stay local, they would completely overwhelm our one main street.
We told the port at several town meetings that we were quite content with the smaller riverboat cruises that stop regularly and stay local.
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Love is the wisdom of the fool and the folly of the wise -Samuel Johnson
Posts: 75 | From: Now from across the pond | Registered: May 2011
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Honest Ron - yes, it is indeed the Britannia on which my acquaintance is booked. Looks like an apartment block lying on its side.....
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
I went on one years ago with some friends. On balance, I found it boring -- you quickly get tired of walking in and out of the various rooms on board.
However, I found some of the passengers interesting and, always one for an adventure, took advantage of that.
There was one old lady, obviously loaded with money, who was spending all of her dotage on board one ship or another. Good food, good medical care (she claimed), and much less stressful than keeping house.
Also a young man who was mentally challenged, probably also loaded with money, spending his otherwise uneventful life cruising the world. He was little more than an annoyance to the other passengers, however.
The most interesting encounter of all was a young boy in his early teens traveling with his grandmother. Bored to tears. Fortunately we had brought some games with us -- Mille Bornes and Waterworks, to be exact, and old Auntie Amanda was able to keep the young man delightfully entertained for the entire week on board. Never saw his grandmother.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
The nearest I have ever got to a cruise is the overnight ferry from Newcastle to the Hook of Holland. I was sicker than a very sick thing.
The idea of being trapped in a sort of hotel-cum-mall-cum-amusement arcade with a few thousand other people, with added nausea, strikes me as a working definition of Hell.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
Like Honest Ron, I'm used to seeing Southampton dominated by these. They bring in £££ to the city's economy as a start/end point for cruises (tourist hotspot it is not) and the distinctive sound of the ship's horn at 'time to get going chaps' can be heard across the city centre.
They're not an eco conscious travel option - (an old, probably biased, but informative article) and the staffing does not point to high wage economies.
[ 26. February 2015, 15:51: Message edited by: Ferijen ]
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Try being the second engineer on one, working and sleeping with the engines. My brother did this for a few years - good money (he saved enough to by a lovely farm) but awful work!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
The Brazilian city where I live also receives a lot of cruises. A friend of mine works driving these people around.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
The idea of being trapped in a sort of hotel-cum-mall-cum-amusement arcade with a few thousand other people, with added nausea, strikes me as a working definition of Hell.
But think of the exciting people you could ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) on!
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Interestingly, another friend of mine works on a cruise ship that goes to the Antartic. The first voyage, he was overwhelmed by those pristine, gigantic masses of ice. After the third voyage, he was already bored by that.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Gosh. I guess it is simply awful for those poor people that they have a good time on cruises. Think of all the good that some money could have gone to for things that really matter in life.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Bran Stark
Shipmate
# 15252
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Posted
My primary objection to cruise ships is simply that they are incredibly ugly. The classic ocean liners of yesterday I can appreciate. But modern cruise ships look like they are going to capsize any moment.
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IN SOVIET ЯUSSIA, SIGNATUЯE ЯEAD YOU!
Posts: 304 | Registered: Oct 2009
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
A friend of ours was one recently. He flew to Rome, cruised round to Barcelona with several stops on the way and flew back from Barcelona. The flights and 9 days accommodation all inclusive cost less than £1000. From the photographs his cabin looked nice, too, and less cramped than I'd have expected.
Price-wise, I thought it was very reasonable.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I went on a Norwegian Cruise from Miami to the Bahamas last year. It was a three day, four night cruise. The ship my wife and I were on was the Norwegian Sky which is a moderate sized ship. While I cannot speak for the crews quarters speaking to a number of the crew members they had no complaints. My son in law who was with us is from the Philippines and he spoke quite freely with the Filipino crew members.
The first day we stopped at Freeport. You could tell Freeport was in an economic depression. There were a number of buildings that were completely abandoned. Yes, we got on a bus/coach that took us to a private beach, but the employees at the beach were Bahamian and well paid.
The second day we were in Nassau. We went on a Jeep cruise there. Our guide took us into some of the slums there. He actually grew up in them. We stopped at a local bar (the type most Westerners would not want to set foot in). Wife and I bought a local beer. It was so cold the beer actually froze when we opened the bottles.
When we ended our jeep tour we were about 1.5 kilometers from the ship and had to walk back through downtown Nassau Most of the people in our group went ahead but my Son in Law stayed with me and we walked back slowly. I asked him if Nassau was like Manila. He said very much so only in Nassau the traffic was moving. Manila is also much bigger than Nassau, I grant you.
Day three saw us at a private island owned by Norwegian Cruise Lines. While there my wife met a Palestinian family who was also on the cruise. She told them our son was teaching school in Ramallah. This pleased them a lot. The wife even gave my wife a scarf she had.
We were back in Miami the next day.
It was one of the most relaxing trips I have ever had. Not that expensive either. $300 per person for the cruise. The different excursions cost more, of course. NCL had other ways of trying to get money from you--like the on board Casino, an Art Auction, charging for the bar.
I am looking forward to another cruise, not this year, but next for sure.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bran Stark:
My primary objection to cruise ships is simply that they are incredibly ugly. The classic ocean liners of yesterday I can appreciate. But modern cruise ships look like they are going to capsize any moment.
The superstructure of the new Queen Mary looks like a multi-storey car park. Most car ferries look better.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I think my experience in my late teens probably put me off/spoiled me for a modern cruise: I went out to see a friend in the West Indies travelling on a fruit boat and it was out of this world. We were only 12 passengers, the food was fantastic, there was a small pool - absolute bliss.
The idea of a modern cruise liner doesn't appeal.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
L'organist: I went out to see a friend in the West Indies travelling on a fruit boat and it was out of this world. We were only 12 passengers, the food was fantastic, there was a small pool - absolute bliss.
A friend of mine worked in Brazil until his retirement. He went back to Europe on a cargo ship, it took him three weeks. I have always envied that.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Gosh. I guess it is simply awful for those poor people that they have a good time on cruises. Think of all the good that some money could have gone to for things that really matter in life.
You're missing the point Tortuf.
It's about the current generation of cruise liners that cram you in, don't have open decks and give you limited time to see places. Quite a few people take these ships and don't go ashore more than once or twice if at all. If they enjoy themselves then bravo. What is puzzling me is what these ships offer, that similarly priced vessels than can offer more authentically cruising (both seaboardand landward) experiences don't.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
My wife and I are going on a repositioning cruise from Ft. Lauderdale to Southampton in a few weeks. I have asked the cruise line what beers are available. Surely there will be other things to wonder about between now and then.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I was brought up in South Africa. We emigrated by boat (much cheaper than flying) with the Union Castle Line. The outward voyage was on the Athelone Castle and homeward bound the Edinburgh Castle. We had 32 trunks all lined up on the quayside at Southampton with all our worldly goods.
Now they were proper ships ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
My wife and I are going on a repositioning cruise from Ft. Lauderdale to Southampton in a few weeks. I have asked the cruise line what beers are available. Surely there will be other things to wonder about between now and then.
Arranging a shipmeet? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
If I were on a cruise, I'd probably start throwing random people overboard somewhere in the second afternoon.
At random? Couldn't you at least start with the annoying ones?
One must be systematic, of course, but you should always spare those you recognize from the previous night's compline.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
A few years ago Mrs W and I found ourselves at the tip of South America and it seemed an opportunity not to be missed to join a small number of other 'adventurers' (as they called us) on a cruise around the Beagle Channel. We even got to climb Cape Horn! Not one of those monstrous ships, mind you.
But those huge beasts do visit a certain set of islands off the South American coast. They have to anchor a long way out of port and passengers get ferried in. Undoubtedly these ships bring huge amounts of cash to the islanders who take them off to see the penguins or the battle sites. And then, if they are lucky and the weather sets in bad, they get to put them up in local hotels, boarding houses, pubs and peat sheds for the night. That's not a joke (well, the peat sheds might be).
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I have been on two cruises, one was OK because I was attending a conference on board which made the sea days interesting. The other was just boring, and noisy, there was no spot without jumpy music blaring (a marketing ploy to get people to buy the more expensive cabins with private balconies? or what they believe the customers want?)
But a friend can't get enough of it. She loves dressing up for dinner, being waited on with an attention unusual in restaurants, the extras you don't get in hotels unless paying a huge price like a mint on the bed, towels folded in fancy shapes (and fresh towels each day).
Elegant living with no decisions at a far cheaper price than the cost of staying in a nice hotel and eating three meals at nice restaurant (and have to decide where to go for each meal).
Friend goes to shore not to sightsee or try a sport but to window-shop jewelry and enjoy a leisurely lunch with lots of liquor and laughter.
People like different things. An inexpensive no decisions no work week of being served good and varied food and getting "instant" response to any request, can be relaxing.
Not my style but neither is sitting on the beach all day, which some people love and I find boring.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Oh boy, do I feel guilty?
Though I'm not going on one of those monstrosities. I think they look like the container ships with whitewash over the containers. I remember being towered over by some in Venice. I simply can't see the point.
I was inveigled onto a converted ferry with my sister's MIL, a respected travel writer, and a few hundred passengers touring the Eastern Mediterranean and looking at the relics of Byzantium with lectures from academics. (And given the size of the ship, I'm interested that the number of coaches was bout the same as reported above, with everyone going.) I'm afraid to say that after a while one narthex morphed into another, and I can't remember where all the mosaics were. (Except Gallia Placida's mausoleum.) It was possible to get onto the decks, where I spent a lot of time. I recall trying to see where Troy was while a bunch of Aussies were looking at the Gallipoli memorials.
In a couple of weeks I'm going on a slightly bigger ship to a spot just off the Faroes to see the solar eclipse, and up the coast of Norway to see the Aurora. Both of these depend on the state of the atmosphere, and I am expecting nothing. I booked with an eclipse chasing company, obviously needing to be on a boat - else it would be Svalbard- and this one does have decks.
It has turned out to be, instead of an eclipse trip with added ship, to be a cruise with added astronomy. Hence three formal evenings, and a theme evening (British - in a trip running from the 9th to the 24th you'd think another nationality would come to mind*). And other stuff. Though we do have Greenwich's Public Astronomer to talk to us. (It was going to be Chris Lintott from the "Sky at Night", but the BBC contract trumped the eclipse company, and he's going to be confined at Jodrell Bank, away from totality.)
The shore trips do look as if they are providing work for the poor oppressed Norwegians and Faroese. And I'm having to pay extra for the Aurora trips which were supposed to be included.
(I'm going to have a suffragette sash. And now I find out there were Leveller women in seagreen dresses, I'm taking one of those along as well(not period style, though).)
But I totally agree about the big things, monstrous.
And the single supplement on cruises amounts to a complete other person! Don't mind for the eclipse.
I'm going on another small one to Iceland later in the year, cunningly advertised as only 25% single supplement, but onky available in the less cheap cabins.
And that, since my passport is running out, will be that.
[ 26. February 2015, 20:39: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ferijen:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
My wife and I are going on a repositioning cruise from Ft. Lauderdale to Southampton in a few weeks. I have asked the cruise line what beers are available. Surely there will be other things to wonder about between now and then.
Arranging a shipmeet?
My wife was an exchange student in Southampton some 37-38 years ago so she is writing the family there to see about a brief visit when we port. We go to London the next day for the flight back to Charlotte NC. We would have liked to fly home to Asheville but it is over a $1,000 more. I guess flying uphill is more difficult than one might think.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
I've been on three cruises with various family members. However, always on the smaller, older style ships. I suppose the lines that cater mainly for 50s plus. I'm not attracted by the larger ones which have full-fledged kids' clubs and are all whistles and bells attractions and activities, like floating holiday resorts. The noise and bustle would drive me insane.
Those huge big ships seem to me like floating holiday resorts in themselves. And I'd much rather go to a holiday resort, if that was what I was after - especially one I could get away from! But the smaller, quieter ships - so far - I've loved. We did the tourist thing: went on all the excursions: rode camels in Lanzerote, tasted the local wine and cheese, had tantelizing and wonderful glimpses of beautiful historic places such as Rome, Pisa, Florence, Minorca, Sardinia, Oporto, Lisbon, Monaco, Nice. And enjoyed the on-board entertainment, to varying degrees.
And what a luxury, to have meals cooked for us, and brought to us - a fantastic menu to choose from, someone to make our beds for us and clean the bathroom, for a few days out of the year when usually we do it all ourselves; to sit quietly relaxing gazing out to sea, or over some amazing coastline. And all for the cost that some people think nothing of putting on their credit cards to book them a flight to the States to do Disney, or Orlando, or Universal Studios etc.
It is an indulgence. But one that seems entirely normal - and in fact rather less ostentatiouisly indulgent than many alternatives - within the context of an ordinary western lifestyle. A new car every few years is an unthinkable indulgence to me. A larger house. A foreign holiday every year. An updated wardrobe etc. Many people save long and hard for their five to ten days of cruise-ship enjoyment.
Of course, throughout all this, we were very conscious of our Philippino crew; what kind of lives did they lead, during their ten/eleven month tours? I'm still in occasional contact with the wine waiter from my first cruise taken back in the mid-2000s. And as slavish as the working life inevitably seems to us 'rich' westerners, the cruise ship jobs are fiercely competed for because relatively speaking they provide a decent, regular wage, and some employee security and protection not usually available in the home nation. The developed/developing nation divide is very plain on a cruise ship. But not necessarily in the most negative ways. It only takes a visit to any local British hop or strawberry field to be confronted with the most serious realities of exploitative labour practices for migrant workers.
But it's a good OP, in that so many of us now do do the cruise thing, so more of us must be being confronted with the global inequalities that have been going on since we fell out of our trees. And hopefully more of us are encouraged to be active in addressing these things.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I went out to see a friend in the West Indies travelling on a fruit boat and it was out of this world. We were only 12 passengers, the food was fantastic, there was a small pool - absolute bliss.
In 1969 my husband and I, along with our four-month-old baby, crossed the Atlantic on a freighter. The other passengers were much more interesting than the passengers I met on ordinary passenger ships. The one I remember best was an Australian nurse who was travelling around the world. When she got to a place where she wanted to stay for awhile, she applied for a work permit. Since there was a shortage of nurses just about everywhere, she always got her permit.
The one major drawback was that the baby hated every minute of the trip. Our cabin was right next to the dining room, and if I heard her crying, I would bring her to the dining room with me. I sat next to the chief engineer, who turned out to be very fond of babies. She spent many mealtimes in his arms.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Bishops Finger: I do wonder about the carbon footprint of these huge vessels
In my opinion, the future of cruises should be sailing ships with solar-powerd auxiliary engines.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Halifax, NS, has been touting for these ships for years now. Quite often, you will see, from my daughter's apartment on Victoria Road, well up the hill, and then 4 storeys up, that your horizon has been blocked by a large mass down by Pier 21. The prisoners - no, sorry, passengers - are given time off for good behaviour, to wander the streets, all with little badges on, and travelling in groups, while looking puzzled to see an actual city working around them. They don't look like they are enjoying it, probably because there is no minder to tell them to enjoy it.
Saint John, NB, is also trying for this trade, but it seems so ...I dunno...artificial that one wonders why they bother.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I've read / heard / seen that the carbon footprint is horrendous, starting with the flushing of human sewage and ending with the carbon fuels consumed, with plenty to be concerned about between.
I wouldn't worry, though. If the increasing ferocity of the winters we're experiencing across swathes of the US now has any marine counterpart, these monsters won't be sailing long. And that's without taking into account the several disasters and near-disasters which have cut various cruises in US waters short -- fires, norovirus (or similar), plumbing breakdowns, etc.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
Y'know how they're big and ugly? this one's bigger...
Saw the article on gCaptain and thought of this thread. What a monster - like a floating housing estate.
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
I've read / heard / seen that the carbon footprint is horrendous, starting with the flushing of human sewage and ending with the carbon fuels consumed, with plenty to be concerned about between.
I have no idea how to measure the carbon footprint. Human sewage happens wherever thee are humans, so is that issue specifically carbon or something else?
Carbon fuels for the ship, yes, but if people went to a hotel instead of a boat and drove to restaurants 3 times a day, that too would use carbon. Plus the staff in restaurant and hotel have to commute twice a day, burning carbon the ship avoids by non-commuting staff
When critiquing carbon consumed by ship, one must compare with carbon used by alternative vacations. (I am aware some say no one should travel for entertainment.)
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Working from memory here, so someone can set any misremembering straight , but the problems with cruise ship waste is it's released en masse all at once, and in port. Sure, hotel guests also poop, but the hotel is already hooked up to local treatment facilities, and it's unlikely the guests all poop at once.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
I've read / heard / seen that the carbon footprint is horrendous, starting with the flushing of human sewage and ending with the carbon fuels consumed, with plenty to be concerned about between.
I have no idea how to measure the carbon footprint. Human sewage happens wherever thee are humans, so is that issue specifically carbon or something else?
Carbon fuels for the ship, yes, but if people went to a hotel instead of a boat and drove to restaurants 3 times a day, that too would use carbon. Plus the staff in restaurant and hotel have to commute twice a day, burning carbon the ship avoids by non-commuting staff
When critiquing carbon consumed by ship, one must compare with carbon used by alternative vacations. (I am aware some say no one should travel for entertainment.)
Driving all those individual cars to/from the hotel certainly burns a lot of fossil fuels, but not as much as if you were to try to drive the hotel itself around from place to place, which is what you are doing when you're in a cruise ship.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
A short 16 minute video of what Norwegian Cruise is doing to mitigate its environmental impact:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK06CWer4IQ
What got me on the video is several shots of board meetings--and there were no women represented on the boards/
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
it's unlikely the guests all poop at once.
Would make for interesting on-board entertainment.
[Miss Amanda will get her commode.]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
cliffdweller: Driving all those individual cars to/from the hotel certainly burns a lot of fossil fuels, but not as much as if you were to try to drive the hotel itself around from place to place, which is what you are doing when you're in a cruise ship.
The comparison is not a completely fair one because depending on the speed on the ship, ships are significantly more fuel-efficient than trucks or even trains when it comes to moving things around. However, I suspect cruise ships travel far enough to consume much more fuel than a hotel, including all the driving by its staff and guests.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
ships are significantly more fuel-efficient than trucks or even trains when it comes to moving things around.
True, but trucks and trains don't run for mere pleasure. Oh, wait, I guess some trains do.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
quote:
cliffdweller: Driving all those individual cars to/from the hotel certainly burns a lot of fossil fuels, but not as much as if you were to try to drive the hotel itself around from place to place, which is what you are doing when you're in a cruise ship.
The comparison is not a completely fair one because depending on the speed on the ship, ships are significantly more fuel-efficient than trucks or even trains when it comes to moving things around.
Yeah.....but.....
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
I've never been on a cruise. I do have a friend who frequently takes positioning leg cruises as a cheap holiday. I have several other friends who take gay cruises. I used to work across the street on the sixth floor of a building that overlooked Seattle's Cruise Ship Dock. It was surreal, one day you'd have a nice view of the sound and the mountains, the next there would be a city block long 8 story building floating there.
I understand that modern cruises offer a lot of very good food. When you buy enough to overfeed 3,000 people you get great prices on high quality food. It also provides maid service of a quality most of us don't get at home. The downside is that legally these ships are a law unto themselves and not under the jurisdiction of the land they tie up to. There's also things like Norovirus floating around. I should probably try a cruise someday, although overeating is not something that I should set up as a vacation goal and being unable to escape a lot of people, especially on a gay cruise is like a vision of hell as a gay bar you can't escape. In places I've been where cruise ships tie up, there's an immediate drop in the nearby quality of life .
I do recommend David Foster Wallace's 1997 article A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Not against cruises. But with motion sickness and claustrophobia, I might have a hard time. And then there are the contagious diseases that spread. And the disasters and terrorists.
I wouldn't mind a short coastal cruise, though., like 3-4 days.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Actually on our cruse we did not have any problem with sea sickness or motion sickness. The ship was quite stable. They use a system of gyroscopes, stabilizes and bilge water systems. Only a small handful of people actually report any problem like that on cruise ships.
Ships do a lot to control disease outbreaks on board. You will find cruise personnel constantly cleaning. You will also find sanitizing stations throughout the ship.
Also cruise ships are not a law unto themselves. When they are in territorial waters they have to abide by the laws of the state or country they are in. For instance, Florida law did not allow for gambling in their territorial waters. It was not until the ship was twelve miles out that the casino was opened. Moreover, even in international waters they are still bound by the laws of the country they are registered in, and there are also certain international maritime laws they have to follow. Any crime on board has to be reported to the country where the ship is registered. Any crime on any ship regardless of nationality operating to or from the United States is reported to the US Coast Guard and FBI. I think other major countries have similar rules on ships operating out of their waters as well. In short Cruise Liners are heavily regulated.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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