Ship of Fools: Very long railway journeys

Thread: Very long railway journeys Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

For some generations, the longest railway journey one could make was the Trans-Siberian run from Moscow to Vladivostok. Exactly why anyone WANTS to spend several days watching endless spruce or birch forests go by is another question.

Now we have a freight run that covers almost 13, 000 km. (8077 miles). It seems just about purposeless - a device to deliver 82 containers of Christmas decorations and plastic trinkets from Yiwu in China to Madrid.

It cost about 20% more than going by sea, but only took three weeks instead of the 6 weeks required for a ship. Apparently the extra cost is justified by the time saving.

Oh, and the return trip was delayed because of concern about freezing some wine in the winter of Central Asia!

As the Guardian says:

quote:
Given that Yiwu’s exports and imports increased by 28% in 2014, according to the Chinese state news agency Xinhua, the record-breaking railway may yet fly. It is certainly an epic monument to the lengths we will go to meet our unfulfillable desire for things we don’t need.

So, step right up! Demand your tickets to follow this extraordinary if arguably ridiculous, journey so you can claim to have ridden the longest run on rails.

I know that capitalism demands simple money explanations for even the most trivial or the most nasty things, with no regard for any non-monetary cost. The need to provide "plastic trinkets" for the "pound shops" or "dollar stores" drives out any sense of "what is life actually about?" or "Does the environment that keeps us alive actually matter?" or any other substantive issue.

I also know that I am spitting into the wind. Nothing will change until the last person capable of buying anything succumbs to the floods/lack of food/tribal warfare/disease that we have caused.

And maybe that would be the best way to deal with it.

Is humanity a cancer on the face of the Earth, one that must be radically removed for the Earth to get back on its feet again?

Sorry, forgot the link:

"All aboard the world's longest railway journey" (edited the Grauniads sloppy title)

PS: Not quite sure why this has bothered me so much. Must be some feeling of total despair, one that "Church" or "God" doesn't answer, as usual.

[ 01. March 2015, 22:11: Message edited by: Horseman Bree ]

Posted by Ferdzy (# 8702) on :

Well I do think you are letting the author's attitude get you down unduly. My immediate reaction was that I wish I could make that trip!

As for the fact that it exists to mostly transport junk, well you are not the first to lament the modern lack of ivory, And apes and peacocks, Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.

In reality, though, I suspect ancient shipments of goods involved an awful lot of second rate olives, wine of "chateau garage" vintage, hemp twine, and cheap red pottery with "souvenir of Corinth" written on it. It was ever thus, and I for one am okay with that.

[ 01. March 2015, 23:18: Message edited by: Ferdzy ]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

The market for amphorae of Greek wine isn't what it used to be.

I don't know why this bothers you so much. Don't blame capitalism; they've been moving stuff on that route for oh 5,000 years. It's a lot easier with wheeled transport and better plastic than ivory. My local Asian art museum has some trade figurines from the silk road a couple of thousand years ago including one clearly Jewish trader. If you wait long enough the souvenir junk becomes priceless museum art.

As for distance, is it any worse than going similar distances from China to Canada with the same junk? Or the produce my local market has that came from Chile?

[ 01. March 2015, 23:23: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ferdzy:
My immediate reaction was that I wish I could make that trip!

Me too!

Decades ago I rode a bus from Vancouver to Toronto, fabulous trip. The scenery is slowly but constantly changing, on a long trip you chat with others, and get off the bus to stay in one or another town for a couple says. A train trip would be similar, but allow walking instead of just sitting.

[code]

[ 02. March 2015, 04:58: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I read an article about some of the transfer points on that line. They're trying to convince the Chinese Tourists it's a destination. A lot of the places in the middle sound pretty bleak; towns built by local despots with the train transfer the only feature for miles around.

There are interesting places but also a very large amount of dust.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
It seems just about purposeless - a device to deliver 82 containers of Christmas decorations and plastic trinkets from Yiwu in China to Madrid.

Congratulations. You might just have broken the Ship's record for the earliest complaint about Christmas celebrations. Normally it takes until August or September.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

It's got all the hallmarks of a publicity stunt, but perhaps there's some freight movement planned which does justify such a long rail journey.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I deeply disagree with the OP - except for the final statement! The sense that this is bothering is something that strikes me as really odd.

The whole idea of a through train from Europe to China is exciting. As was hinted at, there are three breaks of gauge en route. The implication was that the containers switched wagons, but there have been passenger trains where at break of gauge the wheels have been changed. With the Channel Tunnel, perhaps one will soon be able to board a train in London and get off it again in Shanghai.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Well, with the delivery of the next generation of rolling stock later this year, I believe there will will be new international destinations added via the channel tunnel. But there are formidable problems that high speed passenger services face that freight trains don't when running on different countries' networks.

Like others, I'm not quite sure why this particular train has triggered such a burst of existential angst, HB! It's not as if the oceans aren't already criss-crossed by vast container ships piled high with this junk.

[ 02. March 2015, 09:30: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

At least the newer Talgo trains can change gauge quite quickly and easily, but their maximum speed is not as high as an HST, let alone the latest TGVs and ICEs. There may well be some safety requirements the mechanism can't comply with.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Horseman Bree said:

quote:
Is humanity a cancer on the face of the Earth, one that must be radically removed for the Earth to get back on its feet again?

Yes and no.

Yes, we act like a cancer, and the planet might be much healthier if we all jumped on a Golgafrinchan space ship and vamoosed.

OTOH, no, we shouldn't be radically removed. We're part of the Earth system (Gaia, Nature, as you please), and removing us would probably do some harm. Like pulling out an organ. We have a tendency to think we're the brain, therefore most vital. We're probably something like a small islet of cells, or bile in a bile duct, or maybe a gall bladder.

However, if we're wrecking the rest of the Earth creature,...
[Paranoid]

I take the state of the Earth seriously. I also think that, while the Powers That Be are arguing about major changes, we could do a lot with lots of small changes. Give the Earth a little wiggle room to pull herself out of the stuckness we've put her in, give her some breathing room, and she can probably do some self-repair. She probably won't be the way she was, but she can be healthier.

Or something like that.

[ 02. March 2015, 10:27: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Nothing will change until the last person capable of buying anything succumbs to the floods/lack of food/tribal warfare/disease that we have caused.

Correct.

quote:
And maybe that would be the best way to deal with it.

I'm sure Gaia has something up her sleeve.

quote:
Is humanity a cancer on the face of the Earth, one that must be radically removed for the Earth to get back on its feet again?

More like a virus, probably. Seriously, the Earth was here before us and it'll be here after us. Gaia has consistently demonstrated that "she" is quite capable of looking after "herself", but with utter indifference to the beings that inhabit "her".

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Horseman Bree said:
quote:
Is humanity a cancer on the face of the Earth, one that must be radically removed for the Earth to get back on its feet again?
Yes and no. ....

"Is this a description of Original Sin transposed into C21 categories of thought?" Discuss.

If so, it is at least cheering that the classic Christian answer has a lot more to offer than HB's.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Gaia has consistently demonstrated that "she" is quite capable of looking after "herself", but with utter indifference to the beings that inhabit "her".

How much attention do you pay to all the inner workings of your body?

I don't know if Gaia's aware of us. She may well not like us--we've certainly given her reason. I sometimes wonder if we're itchy barnacles to her.

Maybe she'd like nothing better than to whack her tail down on the water (like a whale) and shake us loose!

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

I am a fan of long train journeys and cheerfully boast of having done the Trans-Siberian when it was steam for about half the distance. Environmentally, I am more concerned about container traffic and especially the bizarre phenomenon of shipping ore to Korea and China to be made into metal which is then shipped back to North America.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

The article doesn't really quantify the carbon cost of the route compared to alternatives. But, certainly would be less than flying the goods, and probably comparable to shipping them by sea.

A genuine high-ish speed passenger service would have some advantages for the not-in-a-mad-rush traveller. At an average 100mph that journey would be 3 and a bit days. Tomorrow I set of for a 14h flight (plus several hours in airport terminals) to Tokyo, where I will arrive exhausted and needing about a week to properly get over jet lag (and then with an hour train journey into Tokyo, negotiate Tokyo station before another 1.5h trip to Fukushima). If we had a decent international rail network, with a lot of it HS, that journey could be much better and less environmentally damaging. It would be great to board a HS train in Glasgow to a European hub station (somewhere in Germany or Austria), then change to a transcontinental service to Shanghai or similar where I could get a local flight to Fukushima. It would take 3-4 days, but I would sleep on the way, with power for a laptop and wifi those days could be used doing work, and I'd arrive ready to walk stright into the office without jet lag. It would take a substantial feat of engineering to connect the Shinkansen network to the Chinese mainland, which would enable that to be a route entirely by rail.

It's just a dream, and certainly won't ease the nightmare of being crammed into a BA flight tomorrow. Even more of a dream when the UK government doesn't even seem to realise that it would be sensible to have the HS rail service running south through the Tunnel to the rest of Europe and the service running north to the rest of the UK operating out of the same London station.

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

Well, at least my thoughts about this journey have allowed me to set one record!

Posted by Dogwalker (# 14135) on :

I realize this isn't exactly on-topic, but this trip -- the longest train ride in the world -- appeals to me.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

I love travelling by train. I could easily spend a few days on a train. The next time I visit England I thought I might travel by train. If I get the boat from Helsinki to Stockholm the rest of the what is by train. It's more expensive than going by plane, granted, but more enjoyable and relaxing.

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :

Yes, well don't forget that DB in it's infinite wisdom (!) has cancelled the Copenhagen-Cologne sleeper so you'd have to travel by day-time trains so it could take a while

I did travel to Slovenia some years ago by train - Eurostar, Night Train to Munich ( some good films there!) and then train to Bled and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Unfortunately DB have done a hatchet job on some of its sleeper routes and the Paris-Munich Night Train doesn't run anymore either [Frown]

But this is the man with all the answers.......

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
With the Channel Tunnel, perhaps one will soon be able to board a train in London and get off it again in Shanghai.

True, but the buffet will still have run out of food by Ashford ...

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :

It's OK. Full restaurant service when you get to Brussels....!

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Ah. Good.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Stephen: Yes, well don't forget that DB in it's infinite wisdom (!) has cancelled the Copenhagen-Cologne sleeper so you'd have to travel by day-time trains so it could take a while

I was rather disappointed a couple of years ago that they had cancelled Amsterdam–Milano. Such a lovely trip along the Rhine.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Some years ago I did the journey from Amman to Damascus by train: not far but a fascinating journey.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

If we're talking about fascinating journeys, I really liked the one between Bulawayo and Vic Falls.

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