Ship of Fools: Teilhard ??? ... ???

Thread: Teilhard ??? ... ??? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

So after a long, occasionally heated but generally measured Purgatory thread on inappropriate policing in the wake of the Ferguson shooting, Teilhard craps all over the thread trying to produce excuses and generally derail the thread.

With copious and maddening use of repeated question marks and ellipses.

I can put up with all this until he comes out with this gem:

quote:
NO jail or prison in the USA operates for or at a profit

Within minutes, this has been jumped on by two people and he is given the chance to retract. But no, he tries to wriggle out of it:

quote:
NO government operated jail or prison in America generates either a net "profit" or a "surplus" or any such thing ...

and instead of backing down, starts a further tangent on

quote:
Armed (private) security guards aren't police officers, either ...

And has the gall to bring to bear on this subject his experience as a chaplain in a super-max prison, which seems to have taught him that there are two kinds of people, the nasty ones who deserve to be behind bars, and his kind.

Boy am I glad you're not my chaplain, dodging the difficult questions, never admitting you're wrong, and probably telling me I "should have thought about the consequences sooner". And probably secreting question marks and ellipses as you go.

[Mad]

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Not forgetting those important CAPITAL LETTERS.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard, here:
Having actually *been*there* I am indeed entirely sympathetic to residents/inmates

I call bullshit again. Earlier on, you said

quote:
But, yes, I have learned a great deal through the years about "crime and punishment," including my my own time behind bars as a chaplain … E.g., virtually everybody held in custody resents it and a large percentage protest that they are in fact *innocent* ...

There is no way you can throw out a cynical comment like that and be "entirely sympathetic". This is just typical of your flip-flopping on the Ferguson thread.

Stop posturing about your extensive experience. I'll bet my relevant prison experience matches yours and then some, but I'm not going to waste my question marks or ellipses on a pissing contest with you given your attitude.

[ 20. April 2015, 20:43: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

I can't speak to percentages, but theses folks do find incarcerated individuals who not only claim, but actually turn out to be, innocent.

As a few of them have languished behind bars for decades, I'd say they deserve sympathy.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I have absolutely no problem with that.

I'm 1) calling Teilhard on his claim that NO prisons in the US are making a profit out of inmates (and his ensuing attempts to act as if he never made that claim)

2) questioning his sympathy for inmates when he reports most of them claiming to be innocent (this is certainly not my experience - it is, however, my experience that people making this claim are invariably being cynical and not sincere when they do so), especially when he seems to think the best solution to not being summarily executed is to get delinquents to behave, rather than call policing practices into question or envisage that inmates might not all have had the rosy experience of police he claims to have had

3) expressing my ire at his use of multiple question marks and ellipses as if these somehow improved his argument.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

Not to mention his claim that the child support and fleeing offenses of the victim who was shot in the back are just as important to consider as the murder of a fleeing suspect.

He keeps alternating between saying that he's not defending the officer while offering pathetic rationalizations and that it's such a MESS that no one can figure it out. It's abundantly obvious what happened to everyone but Teilhard. That includes the Chief of Police.

And there's such a long trail of bullshit. If it appears in the newspaper it's rare. Prior complaints didn't need to be investigated because they were cut and dried. It's a crime to flee the police. What about random other police deaths elsewhere?

Tons and tons of bullshit.
.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

He's also never heard of the phrase "With great power comes great responsibility."

You cut slack to minors, the mentally ill, the elderly. You divert addicts to rehab and shop-lifters taking essentials to welfare programmes.

You don't cut slack to those with a badge and a gun, and if I had a badge and a gun, I'd want to be held to a higher standard than the general citizenry.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Oy. He is either a WUM or we have discovered something more dense than a black hole.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Yes, after the first few posts on that thread, I thought, carefully avoid that black hole.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

You are smarter than I.
He's a WUM for certain. The side-steps, misunderstanding and style "ABUSE"!..... certainly has to be deliberate. If he were just stupid, he would occasionally hit the correct note by random chance.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You are smarter than I.
He's a WUM for certain. The side-steps, misunderstanding and style "ABUSE"!..... certainly has to be deliberate. If he were just stupid, he would occasionally hit the correct note by random chance.

I don't know, the internet abounds with that very style of debate. If he can tap into his humility a little bit, he might slow down and learn a lot from the regulars here.

What's a WUM?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Wind Up Merchant. Someone who deliberately attempts to cause anger rather than engage in honest discussion.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You are smarter than I.
He's a WUM for certain. The side-steps, misunderstanding and style "ABUSE"!..... certainly has to be deliberate. If he were just stupid, he would occasionally hit the correct note by random chance.

I think you're right. He could in theory go on for ever. What baffles me is that people get sucked in, as if he could be countered by reason. I doubt it.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Even after I concluded he was not discussing in earnest, I continued in hopes of addressing those who might have sympathy for his position, but are not arseholes themselves. But have stopped because I would not sacrifice billy-goats.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Even after I concluded he was not discussing in earnest, I continued in hopes of addressing those who might have sympathy for his position, but are not arseholes themselves. But have stopped because I would not sacrifice billy-goats.

I am just too old now. It's like chasing that gorgeous blonde, who keeps smiling at me in the mirror of the bar; better to go home and watch the news.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Why does "Teilhard" use scare quotes all the time?

eg -

quote:
No doubt, "racism" is a widespread malignant problem in society … It's not confined to "cops" ...

I'll bet the Teilhard he names himself for never did so, if it's the person I think it is.

It changes the meaning of the sentence - as if the words inside the quotes are not quite real, suspect even.

I find it off putting and odd.

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

Originally posted by Palimpest:

quote:
Not to mention his claim that the child support and fleeing offenses of the victim who was shot in the back are just as important to consider as the murder of a fleeing suspect.

That threw me. If nothing else I remember all those episodes of The Sweeney when Carter and Regan chased a villain before bringing him down. Never once did they say "Oi, you slag! Not only did you do the Hatton Gardens Sparklers Job, shoot three policemen and sexually assault Princess Anne! You also ran away when we chased you! You're in a lot of trouble!" I have no qualms about police using deadly force when someone's life is in danger but when someone runs away you are supposed to fucking run after them not pull a Magnum .45 and announce "you're shit out of luck" before shooting the fucker. It's a sad day for Western Civilisation when the police are recruiting from wheezy fat fuckers who came last in the flat race at school sports days and whose only recourse, in the face of young nimble villains, is to whip out a firearm and put a cap in their arse. The only people in crime prevention who have an excuse for not being able to run after bad guys are Miss Marple and Ironside.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

Miss Marple didn't need to run, she outsmarted the baddies her razor sharp thinking, something these cops could never be accused of doing.

Huia

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Just try running and knitting simultaneously.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

ISTM, Teihard could do this. He is doing a fair bit of topic parkour. Avoiding, dodging and touching as minimally as possible any solid object presented in his path.

[ 26. April 2015, 17:52: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Teilhard (# 16342) on :

No, thank you …
I am NOT "interested in answering my accusers" ...

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
ISTM, Teihard could do this. He is doing a fair bit of topic parkour. Avoiding, dodging and touching as minimally as possible any solid object presented in his path.

Previous post is proof, if it were needed.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Either here or Purgatory, apparently. So just what are you here for, except abuse the English language, and specifically, its punctuation?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard:
No, thank you …
I am NOT "interested in answering my accusers" ...

Just in taking potshots?

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard:
No, thank you …
I am NOT "interested in answering my accusers" ...

Oh wow. The defence of every Christian con artist ever born. I'm afraid only Jesus gets to play that card and win.

Posted by Teilhard (# 16342) on :

Sorry … Not interested ...

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

Then don't post here, you santorum-choking fuckstard.

Posted by Teilhard (# 16342) on :

ROFLMAO

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

I'll take that as admitting that you're a troll. Shall I suspend you now?

Posted by Teilhard (# 16342) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Then don't post here, you santorum-choking fuckstard.

LOL … I rest my case …

[Killing me]

Posted by Teilhard (# 16342) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I'll take that as admitting that you're a troll. Shall I suspend you now?

LOL …

Go for it, I guess … *shrug*
This place seems to be dominated by mean-spirited judgmental gossips ...

(YOU are an "Admin" … ??? Hoowee … !!!)

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Oh well, at least you might take home a new understanding of transience.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard:

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I'll take that as admitting that you're a troll. Shall I suspend you now?
LOL …

Go for it, I guess … *shrug*
This place seems to be dominated by mean-spirited judgmental gossips ...

(YOU are an "Admin" … ??? Hoowee … !!!)

And YOU are a "clergy" person??? Truly, God moves in mysterious ways.

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :

Is Suicide by Admin a mortal sin, I wonder?

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

He's collecting a number of citations for minor offences. Now we're just waiting for him to run away. Apparently that would be enough to justify one of us shooting him in the back.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
He's collecting a number of citations for minor offences. Now we're just waiting for him to run away. Apparently that would be enough to justify one of us shooting him in the back.

Posted by Komensky (# 8675) on :

Burn baby, burn!

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
He's collecting a number of citations for minor offences. Now we're just waiting for him to run away. Apparently that would be enough to justify one of us shooting him in the back.

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
Burn baby, burn!

Disco inferno! (I'll get me coat ...)

Tubbs

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
And YOU are a "clergy" person??? Truly, God moves in mysterious ways.

His blunders to perform.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Teilhard, take a break and a deep breath. Do not consider yourself a martyr. This is about what you posted, not about who you are, your value as a person or anything else. Then take a look at what people have complained about, and see if you can reconcile yourself to your sisters and brothers in this congregation-cum-cacophany-cum-conflagration of the ship. Reach out from whatever your pain is, don't keep reaching in. Do it before the cock crows okay? (i.e. sooner versus later)

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard:
No, thank you …
I am NOT "interested in answering my accusers" ...
Oh wow. The defence of every Christian con artist ever born. I'm afraid only Jesus gets to play that card and win.

I was hoping someone would catch this. God , remember those crasy old days when whenever anyone challenged you, you could tell yourself you were simply sharing in Christ's suffering?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Teilhard, take a break and a deep breath. Do not consider yourself a martyr.

npfiss..., You are a more charitable person than I to give him any credit. He's shown naught that bolsters his story and much that demonstrates a false front.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
And YOU are a "clergy" person??? Truly, God moves in mysterious ways.
His blunders to perform.

Thanks Mousethief - I needed a giggle.

Huia

Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard:
No, thank you …
I am NOT "interested in answering my accusers" ...
Oh wow. The defence of every Christian con artist ever born. I'm afraid only Jesus gets to play that card and win.

The Passive-Aggression of the Christ?

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

I'm not going to bother going to look at what some idiot yahoo is blathering in Purg. I've been working 12-14 hour days and my Giveafuck is busted.

What I've read here however, meshes nicely with the shit I've been witness to all fucking day. At work - among other things - I'm in charge of the social media crap. I work for a regional non-profit who is "friends" with people all over our part of Ak, pretty much all of Whitehorse, and a generous helping of the lower 48. So while I've been fielding messages from all over and writing peppy, promotional BS, I've been subjected to the opinions of every blithering idiot on the internet. (I'm so glad I have a happy hive-mind on my own accounts)

Listen- if you rob people, deal drugs, slap grannies or kick puppies, you suck. You do not deserve to be killed. Certainly not based on the judgement of one or a couple of cops. Do not tell me that the people of Baltimore are making a big old scene for "nothing" because Mr Grey wasn't a fucking saint. This isn't about his moral righteousnesss. HE WAS FUCKING MURDERED.

People are pissed. They have every fucking right to be.

Furthermore, don't tell me this isn't about race. It is completely about race. My ex husband not only broke some serious laws, but he made it worse by evading and then resisting arrest. Was there ever a question of his being killed by a cop? Of course not. He's fucking white. It would never cross anyone's minds.

But my old friend from elementary school got pulled over for speeding and was packing a .44, and he was shot dead. He was Native. Did any cop get in trouble for that? Of course not! Because D was a native man in a car with a gun! He was obviously a danger! But the white child molester who swings on a cop has nothing to worry about.

It's about race. And it's about murder. Anyone who says different is just trying to cover up their own racism and fear and ignorance.

Fuck em. I'm sick of this. Fuck em all.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

Racism aside, the mob is a consequence of people who believe the cops will kill them. It makes sense to move as a group and fight rather than wait to be picked off one by one, if you believe that is happening.

I am reminded of the origin of the British police force, which happened in a time when the mob was a dangerous unpredictable force. The police may have not been angels of mercy, but it speaks to why their not carrying weapons like soldiers do made for a different attitude.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

The object of the OP has indicated to Admin that they're planking themselves, and won't be back.

While there are plenty of Hellish responses to the, er, excesses of law enforcement in various jurisdictions, this particular thread has run its course and will be popped under the ice on the Neva.

DT
HH

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