Thread: London Tea Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
Hi, everyone. I hope you all are doing well and that life is good.

I have a question, and some of you will be the perfect audience: If one wanted to have the most traditional, wonderful, indulgent high tea in London, where would one go? There may be other options, I'm sure -- maybe a traditional tea that real Londoners would frequent vs. a more glitzy, tourist-oriented setting. I'd like to know your thoughts about that, as well.

BTW, I have heard that cupcakes are a "thing" in London now. We do not want cupcakes; we are overly-cupcaked here!

Thanks, folks!
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Not living in London any more, I can't answer that.

But: do you really mean "high tea", or "afternoon tea"? I suspect you really mean the latter ("high tea" is more of an early evening meal, eaten in places where the main meal is lunch).

And: I suspect that the sort of thing you're after is mostly a touristy thing - which, of course, can includes Brits as well as foreigners! That's because it's an extravagant treat: most folk out for the day would just have a cup of tea/coffee and perhaps a biscuit or slice of cake in an ordinary café, perhaps at the museum or art gallery they're visiting. What you are after might be easier to find outside London.

Good luck anyway.

P.S. Cupcakes are taking over the world ...

[ 10. August 2015, 14:45: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
I am sorry Betty's ain't got that far south yet.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Now that would have been a good place to go: I enjoyed tea there at Harrogate a couple of years back.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Browns Hotel in Victoria or try Fortnum and Mason [do they still have a tea room, in the UK sense?] or The Ritz.
 

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Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :
 
Betty's is great, but no where near London, Fortnum and Mason's might be worth a look, and The Library Lounge has views of Big Ben. I've not tried either of those. If you don't mind going a bit further out this place was great for my birthday. I also fancy trying The Orignial Maids of Honour. . Also a bit further out, but it is opposite Kew Gardens who also do good teas, but not I think ones where everything turns up on a tiered plate.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I love the Maids of Honour, but I don't think it's quite the swish place the OPer is looking for.

I'm sure Browns would be good ... The Goring might be even better, especially as it's still a family business. Both are seriously pricey!

[ 10. August 2015, 15:25: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
A friend of mine was treated to afternoon tea at either the Ritz or the Dorchester years ago, and she said it was pretty special.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
The Swan, next door to the Globe, looks to be doing pretty much what I'd describe as a proper tea currently. When I am not posting on a tablet from a train I'll find you the links.

The other place I found tea served was the restaurant at the top of Tate Modern, but it wasn't available last time I looked. I'll check that one when I'm home too.

Both served a variety of sandwiches and sweet tea things on a cake stand with tea to drink.
 

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Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
If you venture out of central London down to Dulwich then you can have a delightful (if rather expensive) afternoon tea at Le Chandalier.

It's about a 15 minute walk from Dulwich Picture Gallery, the world's oldest purpose-built art gallery, which is soon to be playing host to an exhibition of M.C. Escher
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I'm assuming you want the traditional selection of dainty sandwiches and slices of cake, rather than just the "cream tea" with scones, jam and cream. Though some places, as you'll see, will offer you both. And it will be tea rather than coffee as a drink. (Alcohol isn't traditional but don't let that stop you if you fancy a glass of bubbly.) Afternoon tea can be quite substantial in some places.

It depends on your budget. The Ritz famously has a menu that used to have no prices listed, the idea being that if you have to ask, you can't afford it. It is, however, £50 per person. Your average real Londoner wouldn't do the Ritz, but if you're visiting London and want to pull all the stops out it could be an idea.

I'd second the recommendation of Fortnums for posh tourist stuff. The place has been modernized inside in recent years but still retains some of its eighteenth century splendour, and it's worth looking around inside. It used to be possible, if you timed it right, to see someone dressed as the original Mr Fortnum (or Mason, I was never quite sure which) sitting eating his lunch. I don't know whether that custom's been discontinued. Anyhow, their menu is here.

Again, that's another expensive tourist place. Personally, if I was going somewhere for afternoon tea I wouldn't be looking to pay more than about £15-20 for it max, less if I could get it. Museum and gallery cafes can be better value, though they're often crowded; some will let you reserve a table in advance.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
My Great Aunts, for as long as they could get around central London unassisted, treated themselves to Afternoon Tea, once a year at The Goring. Great Aunt Julia (the oldest) reckoned it cost a week of her pension but she wasn't about to give it up. After all, even at current prices, once a year still isn't a pound a week.

She would probably consider it £15 for the food and drink, £30 for the ambience.
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
The cafe at the National Portrait Gallery does a good tea and has stunning views over Trafalgar Square. But yes, it does get busy (particularly the tables near the windows).

I think Fortnums has become very disappointing over the last couple of years and I wouldn't bother with it any more.

Most hotels seem to do an afternoon tea these days, although some have slightly weird components - sickly over sweet stuff in shot glasses - as well as the usual sarnies, cakes and scones.

M.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Here's the Daily Telegraph's guide to the 10 best afternoon teas, with some interesting, if expensive ideas.
 

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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
Thanks for all the suggestions! Both Brown's and The Goring look very nice -- both about the same price and both about equal distance from where we're staying. Does anyone have any reason to choose one over the other?

We'll be doing tea in other places, I'm sure, but it will be just tea and a sweet, like the locals.
 

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Posted by Hazey*Jane (# 8754) on :
 
How has no-one mentioned The Savoy?

Admittedly it's a decade since I've been there and there's been a refurb since, but I had the most enjoyable experience there for a special occasion. I seem to recall that, though expensive, the tea and cakes kept coming till everyone was satisfied.

I've also had afternoon tea at the National Portrait Gallery and decided it was ok, but not earth shattering. At a similar price point, IIRC, I'd recommend the Charlotte Street Hotel.

But yes, if you're ever in the north, Betty's is a good bet.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Afternoon Tea at the Swan at Shakespeare's Globe - good views over the Thames to St Paul's.

Sadly, the restaurant on top of Tate Modern has stopped doing afternoon tea, because that was another place with spectacular views.
 

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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hazey*Jane:
I seem to recall that, though expensive, the tea and cakes kept coming till everyone was satisfied.

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Boy, that is not what happens at the tea rooms around here. You usually get to choose one tea (although some are more generous with the tea), then there is one tiered tray brought, stocked according to the number in your party, the rule being one of each item for each guest. And once it is gone, it is gone. We do a lot of haggling: "I'll swap my open-faced salmon for your cucumber sandwich."

I'm going to check The Savoy and The Swan. They certainly sound very authentic!

[ 10. August 2015, 20:24: Message edited by: Grits ]
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
Enough of this Tea nonsense - you're coming over to Britain?

Shipmeet?
 

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Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
My friends and I do afternoon tea when we meet in London - so far the Ritz still gets my vote for the generous quantities of excellent food, plus wonderful customer service* and music on the grand piano.

However, the Goring let us stay all afternoon, just about, and the food was excellent though the decor was extremely yellow; St. Paul's does a lovely tea in their basement cafe, and the latest was St. Ermin's Hotel. They laid on a string quartet for us (oh wait, maybe it was for the posh wedding...) and the food there was so lavish we had to have a doggy bag - three different sorts of scones!

* one of my friends found a tiny spider in her raspberry tart. A very polite mention of this brought forth a scene not unlike the Monty Python 'dirty fork' one, culminating in all eight of us getting a free glass of champagne - result!

I'm sure you'll enjoy it wherever you go, Grits.

Mrs. S, still salivating
 

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Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
As others have said there are lots of places that do it depending on what sort of experience you want. There are traditional hotels or shops or more modern or quirky places.

Claridges, the Dorchester, or the Lanesborough are very traditional. There are probably options for the Shard (new city skyscraper with great views). For a real extravagant option there are Orient Express teas too but they don't run them that often.

Just be aware you might have to book a long way in advance for some places especially at weekends.
 

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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Enough of this Tea nonsense - you're coming over to Britain?

Shipmeet?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lothlorien:
Some of the prices are eye watering to someone from down under wher the exchange rate is terrible.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grits:
I could be available one evening Wed.-Fri., Sept. 10-12.

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I'll be in Morocco that week
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
If anything the weekend would be best - the week is impossible for me. I'll check the diaries.

M.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
My brother and his family went to the Ritz, which they greatly enjoyed.

Too overpriced for me though - better to spend your money on transport to the lovely city of Rochester (a comfortable day out from London) where the Rochester Coffee Co. do a delectable afternoon tea (and champagne option) for well under £20.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
If going outside London is an option, I'd heartily recommend the café at Wilkins of Tiptree, a few miles outside Colchester in Essex.

It's a much simpler affair than the Ritz/Savoy/Fortnum & Mason offerings (the basic cream tea is tea or coffee, scones, butter, jam and cream), but also much cheaper.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I was suggesting the Swan at Shakespeare's Globe because they quote £24.50 per head, which was around the price at Tate Modern when they still offered it a few years back.

I think the hotel prices are eye-watering too.

Other than Guides on the Wednesday, I don't have anything booked for the Thursday and Friday.
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
The Friday evening could be OK - I'm coming back from Scotland that morning but will be back by early afternoon.

M.
 

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Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
I know the prices are eye-watering, but it saves you eating both lunch and dinner, and you get to go somewhere posh* without any of the issues you have with, say, a prix fixe menu, i.e. what can you afford to drink with it!

So, although expensive, not altogether bad value for money

* my great treat was to be allowed to tell the taxi-driver our destination - 'The Ritz, please'

Mrs. S, closet social climber
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:

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Originally posted by Lothlorien:
Some of the prices are eye watering to someone from down under wher the exchange rate is terrible.

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Some of the prices are eye watering to those of us wot live here!

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Eye watering maybe, but the cost is comparable to a West End show or a Premiership football match. In a posh tea room you get better seats, better service, it's not so crowded, the decor is much nicer, the loos are cleaner and the food is included, plus you won't be distracted by bad acting whether on the stage or the pitch.
 

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Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
Cos of Grits OP I stuck to really high end on my suggestions but there are other lovely places too. With the dates being so soon some are likes to be booked too. Richouxs is lovely, there are several around but I've been to the Piccadily one and can recommend it.
 

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Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
Grits, we had afternoon tea at the Charing Cross hotel since we were staying there. Very nice. It's also close to Trafalgar Square and the National Portrait Gallery, and easy access by tube. The website I've linked seems to have other interesting suggestions too, though I can't vouch for them.

Brits will correct me, but ISTM that across the pond...
(1) "Tea", when more than a beverage, means an early evening meal
(2) "Cream tea" means an afternoon event when you get scones and jam and clotted cream (sounds gross but it's like whipped cream)
(3) "Afternoon tea" means an afternoon event when you get the above plus an assortment of small fancy sandwiches.

"High tea" is what Canadians or Americans say when they mean (2) or (3) but it tends to irritate Brits who think it means (1). It's an expression I'd leave at home
 

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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
There are too many choices! Yes, we want to experience one full afternoon tea. I'm sure we will do tea on several levels while we're there, so we'll hopefully see more than one of these lovely places.

I think it's a wonderful tradition, however you do it. I guess it's similar to us having coffee with someone, but that gets done at all hours of the day and night here, rather than a more set time. It's like you're all sharing the experience together, which is cool.
 

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Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
It is not a single tradition. High Tea or Tea origins are working class, where it is a substantive meal eaten when the family was in from their labour. The emphasis for the food is filling and simple but the drink was tea.

Afternoon tea is a upper class snack aimed to fill the gap between lunch and a late evening dinner which was served with wine.

with high tea you may also had supper which is a light cheap snack. Typical fare for supper in this tradition is a milky drink with cereal, toast or biscuit.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Apart from the places mentioned, there's also an enjoyable afternoon tea at Brown's Hotel in Albemarle St. Not as pricy as some of those mentioned. We've also stayed there and found it comfortable and quiet at night. The set menus for dinner are not overly expensive for what you get.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Re. Jengie's post (which I agree with): I come from a middle-class professional family.

On weekdays my sister, mother and I had "tea" after school - a sandwich or two and a biscuit or slice of cake, with a cup of tea. (My mother would have had a light salad lunch or similar).

My father didn't get home till after 7 pm, so at around 7.30 - 8 pm we had "dinner", a proper cooked meal.

I cannot remember what we did on Saturdays, when my father worked in the mornings only - I think we still had our main meal in the evening. But on Sundays we had a full roast lunch, and then nothing (except perhaps a cup of tea) until High Tea, a substantial cold meal eaten at around 6.30 - 7 pm.

I don't know how typical that was.

When - in later years - taking services as a Guest Preacher, I often dreaded the catering arrangements! We'd get back to our hosts after church and have a big lunch with all the trimmings, often not till 1.30 or 2 pm because of the time needed to prepare after the service. There would then be Tea, with cakes and sandwiches, at around 5 pm - I never wanted anything to eat then, but the good lady of the house would have often gone to a lot of trouble baking, so I felt obliged to.

What I would have preferred was a light snack after the Evening Service at 7.30 pm to set me on my homeward way! As it happens I'm Guest Preaching this Sunday evening, and tea and (excellent) cake after the service at the organist's house are compulsory!
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
As a child we had High Tea when we were away together in the summer holidays - same place in Cornwall for a few years, from when I was about 5 to 10. That was a sort of early supper, but less complicated food. Poached eggs on ham, a boiled egg with soldiers, salad or sandwiches and cake for pudding. I can't remember if it turned into proper supper when we'd been mackerelling and had a glut of fish for supper, but do remember eating very fresh mackerel. That was when we were of an age to have an earlier tea and bed at around 6pm while my parents usually ate later and together when my father had come home from work. My grandparents also served us High Tea when we were that age.

Tea or afternoon tea is the tea and biscuits or cakes mix in normal living. If you've been energetic it has cake to keep you going, if you haven't it's just tea to drink. Only if you have guests does it get pretty and someone might make petit fours and interesting cakes and savouries. It was the sort of party we put on for my grandparents 50th wedding anniversary* - with Pimms to drink as well as tea.

* That party is the only reason I know how to cook half the stuff that turns up on on the Great British Bake Off. I was old enough to be corralled in as spare cook and bottle washer. They haven't set madeleines as a challenge yet.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I never heard the term "high tea" in use until recent years. Neither the London side of my family ever referred to it or the Irish side. You had "afternoon tea". And then you had your tea (which other people might call "dinner" although "dinner" could be used to describe "lunch"). I always assumed that "high tea" was a Northern term.

Supper isn't a term I've ever heard used either in real life, but from what I've seen of it since with other people, it's an evening meal, presumably referred to as "supper" where "dinner" might be thought a bit grand for everyday use.

The whole thing is riddled with pitfalls. As a student I was invited round to someone's house for tea one day, so I cancelled my attendance at the college evening meal and went round, only to sit there drinking lots of tea with nothing more substantial to eat than a biscuit, until my friend's landlady called up the stairs that her dinner was ready. It really is best to ask if you're not sure what "tea" means. Inviting someone for "coffee" on, the other hand, usually means "coffee" except when it means "sex".

[ 15. August 2015, 11:28: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Well, my father, who had a nanny growing up, referred to the High Tea phenomenon as Nursery Tea, as did his parents. I only really remember it being called High Tea on these holidays, but we understood it as this meal was called High Tea in Enid Blyton books.

The whole nomenclature is really confusing. If you normally call afternoon tea, tea, then an early evening meal has to be called something different to distinguish it from the tea and cakes option at 4pm. In those circles the evening meal is either supper, if informal, and dinner, if formal. If very informal it can be a kitchen supper or a scratch supper (because dining rooms are also a thing). Whereas the circles that call the evening meal tea call the midday meal dinner.

Usually school dinners are served, not lunches, hence dinnerladies. Kipling's Stalky and Co, which is based on Kipling's school days at Westward Ho!, refers to dinner in the middle of the day and tea later.
 

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Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
Did anyone see the new series Very British Problems this week? I'm wondering if they'll include this?
 

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Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Having moved from the South of England to North of England - nearly 2 years ago -I'm still utterly confused by what is lunch / tea / dinner / supper. I've given up!

As to where to go for Afternoon Tea - I did the rounds when I first moved to London some 25 years ago. It was a blast!

Tips:
- don't anticipate having another meal for some 18 hrs
- go hungry, not having had lunch or just a light lunch
- block out at least 3hrs so you can let some of the food settle before grasping the next scone
- don't overdo the sandwiches - it's their way of taking the edge off your appetite
- take a camera and don't be afraid to ask for pictures and snap the food - the presentation can be stunning
- book plenty in advance

I haven't actually been to the Goring but that's where Kate Middleton had her last night as a single woman. Personally, I love Claridges and Savoy.
 

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Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Another vote for Browns here. I had champagne tea* there for a birthday treat a few years ago and it was great.

*All that you would expect from afternoon tea, including the tea, but with a glass of champagne as well.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie jon:
It is not a single tradition. High Tea or Tea origins are working class, where it is a substantive meal eaten when the family was in from their labour. The emphasis for the food is filling and simple but the drink was tea.

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I come from Northern working class stock and still call our evening meal 'tea', much to the annoyance of my middle class husband who insists it is dinner (but I know that dinner is a cooked meal in the middle of the day ) .

[ 16. August 2015, 19:17: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
 

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