Ship of Fools: I Hate Daylight Savings Time

Thread: I Hate Daylight Savings Time Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

AUGH! It messes up your circadian rhythm, it makes people have road accidents (so I've heard), it means my little angels are going to be all discombobulated on Monday when they take an important standardized test that could determine what math(s) class they're in in their first year of high school.

(I'd have put this in TICTH but there doesn't seem to be one at the mo.)

I HATE DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!!!!11!!!!1!

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

That time again?

Not that it bothers me. a) I've just arrived back in Japan so my internal clock is screwed anyway, and b) Japan rather sensibly doesn't do this mucking around with the clocks thing.

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
when they take an important standardized test that could determine what math(s) class they're in in their first year of high school

I hate those fucking standardized tests more and more.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

I'm not fond of it, either.

Maybe suggest to the little angels that they get some extra sleep that weekend? And make sure they have breakfast on the morning of the test? (Unless this is a school where there are apt to be kids who don't have access to breakfast.)

Or skip school, and take a make-up test. [Biased]

MT to principal: "Ack, Your Greatness, it seems that some kind of virus has my entire class down for the count. And (cough, cough) I'm not feeling so well, myself. Guess we'll have to postpone the test. How does on the 12th of Never sound?"

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

Move to Arizona.
[Big Grin]

Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
That time again?

Not that it bothers me. a) I've just arrived back in Japan so my internal clock is screwed anyway, and b) Japan rather sensibly doesn't do this mucking around with the clocks thing.

Have you spent a summer in Fukushima yet? When I lived in Sendai, I found sunrise before 4 AM to be really annoying.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Try living in a high latitude. We have a couple of months where sunrise is pretty much as soon as it sets.

Also, comet will be along to mock you shortly.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

A strange thing. Some years ago we holidayed in Brittany, France. Being in continental Europe, its time is an hour ahead of British time. But we were actually as far west as Devon or Cornwall.

Result: in August it didn't get light till 7 am, and didn't get dark till 10 pm. We got off the ferry early, and looked to have breakfast in a café in the next large town on the road - but, even at 8 o'clock, nothing was open!

Winter mornings, even that far south, must be dark and gloomy.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

Stupid fucking pointless outdated concept being clung to by morons who think it will somehow make us "relavent" if we are just as pathetically bass-ackward as the rest of the idiot country that is completely out of tune with the motherfucking SUN for god's sake.

Don't get me started.

But sometime I can tell you all about the time I cancelled it on the radio and completely fucked up the whole town. Good times!

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Do I take it, then, that you are not entirely in favour of it?

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
Have you spent a summer in Fukushima yet? When I lived in Sendai, I found sunrise before 4 AM to be really annoying.

I was here in July a couple of years back, and again last year. The hotel had good curtains.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I give my cat insulin and minced chicken, which activity the dog gets up to supervise, at 6AM and 6PM. We all three spend about a month getting that rescheduled in our little brains at each time change.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I hate it too [Mad]

It's pointless - you get no more light, so why fiddle about with when you get it?

Stupidly pointless [Mad]

Posted by crunt (# 1321) on :

I miss it!
I live on a pretty much equatorial latitude these days (about 3 deg N, I think), so sun up / sun down is pretty consistent all year, and then for years and years before, I lived in Korea where they willfully ignore the opportunity for long summer evenings.
It still affects me though, because I will often tune into my favourite NZ radio shows online only to find they have already finished, or won't be starting for another hour. That's just March and October, though. I'll get used to it in a few weeks.
It's not so much the mornings; I don't care about the mornings (as long as I have my coffee and my peace and quiet), but I really do like the long summer evenings.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

Love it, love it, love it. The arrival of DST in March is the only faint glimmer of hope I have that spring will one day arrive. I realize it's a false hope -- sunset is getting later anyway, by natural means, and shifting the clock ahead only creates the illusion that it's happening faster than it is -- but for someone like me who bitterly hates winter and lives in a place with a long, cold, hard winter, that illusion of hope is the one thing that keeps me going through March and April.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
crunt: I live on a pretty much equatorial latitude these days (about 3 deg N, I think)

Ha! I live 1.5° South. But I think MrsBeaky wins on this one.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

I hate DST now that I live at Longitude 80.31 in Virginia. When I lived at Longitude 71.47 in New Hampshire, it wasn't so bad. Even with DST the sun rose at 5 AM in June.

Moo

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Baptist Trainfan: A strange thing. Some years ago we holidayed in Brittany, France. Being in continental Europe, its time is an hour ahead of British time. But we were actually as far west as Devon or Cornwall.

I think you can blame the nazi's for that?

I live in the North of Brazil, which doesn't have DST because it's close the Equator. The South of Brazil, where the big cities are (Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo ...) does. So, what we notice about DST in the North is that the television programmes shift by one hour.

[ 07. March 2015, 11:34: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

I really, really, really hated it when the dastardly Murricans decided to start it in March during the last so-called energy crisis. For those of us further north, an end-April start made much more sense. I also enjoyed the last week of October change. But the Canadian government, as usual kowtowing to commercial interests, followed the Murrican lead blindly, This excludes Saskatchewan where they have always understood that contented cows have priority over brainless people.

Trudy, I was in Newfoundland for a few weeks in 1987 when the province experimented with double time and a half daylight saving. I used to come back to my hotel room after a hard day's work and would turn on the TV to get some news from Ontario. Instead I found myself watching the beginning of Question Period in the House of Commons.

I was grateful that this only lasted one year.

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

I love DST -- in the fall, when it gives me an extra hour's sleep by ending.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

Yep. Moving the clocks is a pain in the arse and pointless, especially when you live in the north. No doubt it's a waste of a lot of money as well.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Move to Arizona.

No daylight savings, except in those parts of the state inside the Navajo Nation.

Try this as an itinerary:

Friday: Fly into Nevada after changing planes in Chicago.
Saturday: Enter Utah.
Monday: Enter Arizona
Tuesday: Enter Navajo Reservation.
Wednesday: Back into non-Navajo Arizona.
Friday: Fly out of Arizona via California.

And you think changing your time zone twice a year is bad...

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

I love daylight saving and am not looking forward to it finishing in a few short weeks. The long sun filled evenings are a real joy particularly when I live so far to the south of the equator.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

I hate it as well. Noon should be at noon.

That is all.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

So, you advocate time zones changing every few km? Because, otherwise noon will be noon at only a very few locations with current time zones.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, you advocate time zones changing every few km? Because, otherwise noon will be noon at only a very few locations with current time zones.

This is hell - logic is not required. I like noon being at noon, because the day has the right shape.

The logic is substantially in favour of BST, in that the hour is much more useful at the end of the day than the beginning, but I still hate it because it feels wrong.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

I never really understood why they adopted it over here. It really makes no difference: the sun's still up when you wake up and go to bed in the summer. Utterly pointless.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Just keep it on GMT all year round. People always used to manage.

I hate it being daylight at 4.30 am and still daylight at 10 pm. It feels completely unnatural and you lose sleep that way. I want day and night to be roughly equal, or failing that, dawn around 5.30-6am and sunset around 7.30-8ish.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.

Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
But sometime I can tell you all about the time I cancelled it on the radio and completely fucked up the whole town. Good times!

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Also, comet will be along to mock you shortly.

Or not.

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Stupid fucking pointless outdated concept being clung to by morons

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.

Until the planet becomes a cylinder, that's going to be the way of life for gazillions of people.

Posted by guinness girl (# 4391) on :

The biggest pain in the arse with the clocks changing is having small children. Half-pint's body clock has been very fine tuned since he was about 6 months old, and so the clocks changing inevitably results in a very small child waking up an hour out of sync with everyone else and being impossibly grumpy for about 3 days as you try to get him back to a normal routine. This is only avoidable with a week of prior military-precision pre-planning and routine shifting which is almost as irritating to execute!

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.

It's what I want. Got a problem with that?

Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
crunt: I live on a pretty much equatorial latitude these days (about 3 deg N, I think)
Ha! I live 1.5° South. But I think MrsBeaky wins on this one.

Had to check on Google as I can never carry numbers in my head and our town is 0.5167° N so pretty much the same all year round.
When living in the UK I don't actually mind the changing seasons and daylight hours but my poor husband really suffers in the winter darkness so I get why it annoys people especially when animals and/or kids have to adjust....

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Move to Arizona.

Or Saskatchewan.

Posted by marsupial. (# 12458) on :

I wouldn't mind it so much if I didn't have catch an 8:00 am flight tomorrow morning. Now trying to remember which of my alarm clocks automatically convert and which don't.

Posted by irish_lord99 (# 16250) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, you advocate time zones changing every few km? Because, otherwise noon will be noon at only a very few locations with current time zones.

It used to be kinda like that in the US: before the railways came through and enforced 'standard time' to keep themselves organized.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

At least they don't call it 'summer time' here the way we used to. With over 6 inches of hard frozen crusty snow outside and the thermometer reading -10C, that's just as well. I always refer to it as GW Bush time, as he was the idiot whose administration brought it forward to such a daft date. It's not my favourite time to year, with two different time shifts and two different Mother's Days to deal with. One of them always gets missed.

My thanks to Comet for her heartfelt echo of my own feelings, and for actually doing something about it.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.
It's what I want. Got a problem with that?

Since there's nowhere on the planet (or pretty much, the solar system) that gives you more net daylight than night across a year, I'm just going to side with orbital mechanics.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Pick a time, any time, and stick to it!

quote:
the frequency of heart attacks, traffic accidents and workplace injuries--which are usually very expensive to treat--goes up dramatically when we change the clocks,

article

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.
It's what I want. Got a problem with that?
Since there's nowhere on the planet (or pretty much, the solar system) that gives you more net daylight than night across a year, I'm just going to side with orbital mechanics.

I don't see "across a year" in your original post.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Just keep it on GMT all year round. People always used to manage.

For all people in all places at all times. God's Mean Time will do.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

For those of us at 60, we're currently gaining an hour of daylight a week. So with the time change, we get completely thrown out of whack for one week worth of change and then we've flown past it anyway. It's pointless and stupid. Our idiot leaders think fucking everyone up for no reason twice a year is going to keep our economy happy. Because, I dunno, if we don't arbitrarily fuck with the clocks twice a year, Outside investors will all forget we exist or something.

It's up for discussion in our legislature yet again. The screaming of the coming Doomsday is particularly loud right now. This is what happens when you send al your most intellectually challenged alcoholic rednecks to office.

As for solar noon: when I was a kid, AK had 4 time zones. Then those same "pubic servants" decided we needed to (almost) all be on one timezone. So! Between that and DST, solar noon in Atka during the winter is around dinner time. Helpful, huh?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

As for solar noon: when I was a kid, AK had 4 time zones. Then those same "pubic servants" decided we needed to (almost) all be on one timezone. So! Between that and DST, solar noon in Atka during the winter is around dinner time. Helpful, huh?

Do you have a solar anything in the winter?

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
It's up for discussion in our legislature yet again. The screaming of the coming Doomsday is particularly loud right now. This is what happens when you send al your most intellectually challenged alcoholic rednecks to office.

Arizona has the southern version of your Legislature.

In January a brand new Legislator decided his claim to fame would be bringing DST to Arizona. The backlash was so bad it was withdrawn before it ever got to Committee.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.
It's what I want. Got a problem with that?
Since there's nowhere on the planet (or pretty much, the solar system) that gives you more net daylight than night across a year, I'm just going to side with orbital mechanics.
I don't see "across a year" in your original post.

Well, considering anyone living north or south of 20 degrees will have roughly two periods either side of the summer solstice which fit the original request, I kind of assumed that Ariel was wanting it all year round. Which is ... impossible. Literally impossible. So I really don't know where you're going with this.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Yes, I want it all year round, yes it is impossible. Ideally I'd like day and night to be equal length, and for the Equator to be moved to the northern hemisphere. I recognize that life isn't ideal, and that probably won't happen, but it doesn't stop me wanting it and it won't stop me complaining about it from time to time.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

( puts on Golden Key costume and begins plucking a zither.)

... And the seasons, they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on a carousel of ti-iime...

[ 07. March 2015, 17:14: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

I'm afraid I agree with DST haters on the issue. Bloody bureaucrats who invented it, and now seem unable to change back to a single time all year round. [Mad]

As there's daylight longer into the evenings, people are outside until late, creating constant noise and hassle. Not a problem as such - but the following morning, you'll have to get up nonetheless to go to work, so you'll definitely lose out in the end, I feel.

I still believe I used to have considerably more quiet and more quality rest before they started with these idiotic long evenings!!

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Yes, I want it all year round, yes it is impossible. Ideally I'd like day and night to be equal length, and for the Equator to be moved to the northern hemisphere. I recognize that life isn't ideal, and that probably won't happen, but it doesn't stop me wanting it and it won't stop me complaining about it from time to time.

Fair enough. I like that we have seasons.

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

I like DST, and I like it in that we bring it in with the weekend right after equinox in Europe.
I like it because it's a ritual, even a festivity, like those loonies celebrating summer solstice. You reset every clock in the house (except the fancy modern electronic equipment) and so do all your neighbours. It's communal. And then, for 7 months forth, you delight in long evenings.
The sun does not rise at 4 in the morning, but at 5, when it becomes useful, and it does not set at 20h, but and 21h, when it is still useful.
Then, come October, you enter a state of mourning as winter approaches, but are duly consoled by a hot chocolate and an extra hour of sleep - in my case were it not for the molopatas jr. who are yet to learn the deeper meaning of it all and simply haul you out of bed an hour earlier.

Thus I am shocked at the irreverence and profanity uttered on this thread and the unbridled inability of some posters to grasp the life-affirming significance of this simple seasonal joy which gives so much structure and meaning to the existence of some of us in the latitudes of 30° - 55°.

Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :

An analogy:

You decide you don't like where your living room table is. It needs to be against the north wall of the room, not the south wall. So you demolish your entire house, leaving the table in situ, and rebuild it just under a room's width further south, so that the table is now in the right place.

And then you do it again, six months later, in reverse.

And if you ask people why we do this to our clocks, you'll hear them say things like 'Oh, it's because of the farmers'. Because obviously the cows and the chickens know the clocks have changed, and will oblige Farmer Smith with an extra hour in bed. Or we're told it's for the schoolchildren, who obviously love it when their school arbitrarily finishes an hour later just as the nights are drawing in at their fastest.

DST is superstition and waste on a global scale. Its existence is testament to the gullibility of governments. It makes no more sense than the legendary Indiana Pi Bill of 1897, but it's been passed by governments the world over.

Want thing to happen earlier, relative to local mean solar noon? Here's the secret: do them earlier.

t

Posted by irish_lord99 (# 16250) on :

Or to quote (supposedly) an old Native American chief, "Who the hell thinks that cutting the end off of a blanket and sewing it onto the other end yields a longer blanket?"

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I hate it too

It's pointless - you get no more light, so why fiddle about with when you get it?

Stupidly pointless

Yeah, let's just flip the clock by 12 hours and work from what is currently 9pm until what is currently 5am. Makes no difference whatsoever!

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
Or to quote (supposedly) an old Native American chief, "Who the hell thinks that cutting the end off of a blanket and sewing it onto the other end yields a longer blanket?"

To quote me: Who the hell thinks that's actually a sensible analogy, with its complete lack of analysis about what is movable and what isn't?

Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
Or to quote (supposedly) an old Native American chief, "Who the hell thinks that cutting the end off of a blanket and sewing it onto the other end yields a longer blanket?"
To quote me: Who the hell thinks that's actually a sensible analogy, with its complete lack of analysis about what is movable and what isn't?

Mmm, it's kind of like my analogy, but with a racist-looking vague attribution and a complete lack of actual analogy to the matter in hand.

t

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
Or to quote (supposedly) an old Native American chief, "Who the hell thinks that cutting the end off of a blanket and sewing it onto the other end yields a longer blanket?"
To quote me: Who the hell thinks that's actually a sensible analogy, with its complete lack of analysis about what is movable and what isn't?
Mmm, it's kind of like my analogy, but with a racist-looking vague attribution and a complete lack of actual analogy to the matter in hand.

t

Yours is considerably better, yes.

We could get into an interesting debate as to the practicality of actually shifting everyone's work hours, school hours, after-hours events etc etc by one hour at various times of year, and how there'd end up being a lack of consensus and a whole bunch of complaints in both directions (why didn't you shift X when Y was shifted, why did you shift Y when X wasn't shifted, and so on and so forth), and then we could discuss whether maybe imposing a universal rule for the whole of society is actually more efficient than a whole bunch of independent decisions to put the extra hours of daylight later in the day when they're more useful to more people (contrary to Boogie's claim that it makes absolutely no difference WHEN the hours of sunlight are available, apparently believing that light is equally useful at any time on the clock), and then we could reflect on how modern lives are controlled more by the figures on the timepiece than by the natural solar cycle and consider whether it's legitimate to adjust the solar cycle to fit in with the more dominant system.

Or as this is Hell, we could just skip all that and yell at each other.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
I like it because it's a ritual, even a festivity, like those loonies celebrating summer solstice. You reset every clock in the house (except the fancy modern electronic equipment) and so do all your neighbours. It's communal.

Huh? It would be communal if we threw parties and everyone brought all their clocks and set them forward in a little ceremony and then got hilariously tipsy. Going around the apartment to each clock in turn by myself and swearing at the microwave because I can never remember how to set it is not communal.

quote:
And then, for 7 months forth, you delight in long evenings.

No, and then, for at least a month, you get up in the dark when you could have been getting up in the light if it weren't for the goddamned fucking time change, and you drag your ass into work and pray to God that no one will talk to you till you've had two cups of coffee and the time has reached the time you'd have come in if it weren't for the goddamned fucking time change.

quote:
The sun does not rise at 4 in the morning, but at 5, when it becomes useful, and it does not set at 20h, but and 21h, when it is still useful.

The sun never rises at 4 where I live. Here on the longest day of the year, without DST the sun would rise at 4:45 am and set at 7 pm, which would be fine. It's not like we need more sunshine here on the southern coast of California -- it was 80F degrees out today.

quote:
Then, come October, you enter a state of mourning as winter approaches, but are duly consoled by a hot chocolate and an extra hour of sleep - in my case were it not for the molopatas jr. who are yet to learn the deeper meaning of it all and simply haul you out of bed an hour earlier.

In October here we suffer the way we suffer in March because we don't set our clocks to the real time until the first weekend of November. So don't fucking talk to me in October until I've had those two cups of coffee.

quote:
Thus I am shocked at the irreverence and profanity uttered on this thread and the unbridled inability of some posters to grasp the life-affirming significance of this simple seasonal joy which gives so much structure and meaning to the existence of some of us in the latitudes of 30° - 55°.

Here at 33.77, I fucking hate goddamned goat-fellating DST.

Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
We could get into an interesting debate as to the practicality of actually shifting everyone's work hours, school hours, after-hours events etc etc by one hour at various times of year, and how there'd end up being a lack of consensus and a whole bunch of complaints in both directions (why didn't you shift X when Y was shifted, why did you shift Y when X wasn't shifted, and so on and so forth), and then we could discuss whether maybe imposing a universal rule for the whole of society is actually more efficient than a whole bunch of independent decisions to put the extra hours of daylight later in the day when they're more useful to more people (contrary to Boogie's claim that it makes absolutely no difference WHEN the hours of sunlight are available, apparently believing that light is equally useful at any time on the clock), and then we could reflect on how modern lives are controlled more by the figures on the timepiece than by the natural solar cycle and consider whether it's legitimate to adjust the solar cycle to fit in with the more dominant system.

That would be an interesting debate, yes. My biased opinion - currently especially biased by the demands of child-rearing - is that official, institutional shit should stay put relative to mean solar time, and that we should try to adapt the somewhat more flexible parts of our lives to make the best use of the surrounding time.

I'm actually quite bad at doing that myself, but the clock change just makes it even more difficult twice a year.

t

Posted by crunt (# 1321) on :

quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
crunt: I live on a pretty much equatorial latitude these days (about 3 deg N, I think)
Ha! I live 1.5° South. But I think MrsBeaky wins on this one.
Had to check on Google as I can never carry numbers in my head and our town is 0.5167° N so pretty much the same all year round.

I went and checked (similar problem RE: numbers / head). We're 3.9333 degrees north, so we're basically a four!

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Here at 33.77, I fucking hate goddamned goat-fellating DST.

Here at 47.21, I salute your well and humorously argued post.

Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on :

Without DST, the sun will wake me up too early.

That would annoy me even more than the whiners moaning about DST.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

DST has been linked to a rise in heart attacks and accidents.
So, yeah...

Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :

And with all the new electronic gadgetry in the modern home it isn't just the microwave: I get to figure out how to change the setting in our new rice cooker.

But at least we've gotten rid of the VCR so I don't have to reprogram it to flash 1:00 1:00 1:00 ...

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
( puts on Golden Key costume and begins plucking a zither.)

... And the seasons, they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on a carousel of ti-iime...

No, honey, you've got to get the walk right. And you *do* realize that's an unlicensed costume?

And that song always makes me dizzy.

{Sighs. Surrounds Kelly with lava lamps; gently purloins the axe, calls lawyer, and slips away for a tall mug of dark Guittard cocoa.}

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Pick a time, any time, and stick to it!

quote:
the frequency of heart attacks, traffic accidents and workplace injuries--which are usually very expensive to treat--goes up dramatically when we change the clocks,
article

.

According to the rather more balanced National Geographic article daylight saving reduces heart attacks at the autumn change by the same 10%. The accident rises are apparently insignificant statistically.

In countries with air conditioning daylight saving does not save energy as the reduction in lighting costs is more than offset by the additional air conditioning costs. And additional costs arise when people get involved in more activities in the longer evenings in countries with a more car based economy as they also increase petrol consumption as people drive to their activities.

But daylight saving does increase the activity of children and works towards reducing obesity in children, particularly in Australia and the UK, not so much in the US, Brazil or Madeira.

From the National Geographic article it seems that the US problems are compounded by the early implementation - which has been moved earlier and earlier over several years. The UK clocks go back on the last Sunday in March and forward on the last Sunday in October.

I think the clincher for me was that the main opposition in the States is from the TV stations who lose viewers when the clocks change. If they don't like it, maybe it's not such a bad thing?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

... and I absolutely do not want to shift to Double Summer Time all year round.

Luckily so far it hasn't happened.

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

@Ruth

Gee - you really do hate DST! [Smile]

On may part I love it so much, I would keep it all year, but because I like more light in the evenings rather than fiddling with clocks. Keeping it all year would get rid of the time switching.

Meanwhile, it IS communal. You should delight in exchanging gripes about microwave oven clocks with your neighbours (I personally hate the one in the car which I normally don't even bother with). It can give you the satisfaction of temporarily creating a common horizon of understanding with the kind of folks you would otherwise cross the street to avoid.

quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:
Want thing to happen earlier, relative to local mean solar noon? Here's the secret: do them earlier.

Unfortunately, we don't all operate out of a shack in the woods. If I suddenly decide I want to go shopping an hour earlier, or catch one train earlier or later than the going schedule permits - or show up for work an hour later, I'm going to have a long wait or a serious shake-down.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Daylight saving will end here at the end of the month, and I shan't be all that sorry. By now, it's dark at 6.15 when I walk up to the station in the morning, and getting dark as I come home around 7.30. A real problem is that in the morning, the temps often around the mid-teens, but in the evening is around mid-twenties to come home. When daylight saving ends, the temps will be much closer.

Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :

I remember when the UK experimented with Dst all year round in the early seventies. We ended up going to school before it was properly light and armbands were issued to children to make them more visible going to school. This wasn't in the north, it was in Norfolk.

I for one was glad when they started returning to GMT in the winter. My preference would be for GMT all year round

Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on :

Merton assists the change in time in the Autumn. Perhaps someone should petition them to do likewise in the Spring.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
According to the rather more balanced National Geographic article daylight saving reduces heart attacks at the autumn change by the same 10%.

Ah well that's okay then. I'm sure the people who get the heart attacks in the Spring are happy to take the fall for people who would have gotten them in the Fall but don't.

quote:
I think the clincher for me was that the main opposition in the States is from the TV stations who lose viewers when the clocks change. If they don't like it, maybe it's not such a bad thing?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
On my part I love it so much, I would keep it all year

Then it's not DST, it's changing to a different time zone. Which is something completely different. What I and most people who hate it hate about DST is the semiannual shift.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
I remember when the UK experimented with Dst all year round in the early seventies. We ended up going to school before it was properly light and armbands were issued to children to make them more visible going to school. This wasn't in the north, it was in Norfolk.

I for one was glad when they started returning to GMT in the winter. My preference would be for GMT all year round

I remember that. The effect was to catch the bus to school in the dark rather than get home from school in the dark. IIRC the schools preferred us to get home in the dark as we be more likely to stay inside and get straight down to homew*rk. My Mum reckoned we used more coal and electricity with dark evenings.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

If you want DST year round, move to Saskatchewan. It's in the Mountain timezone, but never switches out of Central Standard Time (CST), except for Lloydminster on the Alberta border.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Meh. My kids had about 3 months of going to school in the dark and coming back in the dark, and that's every year, without failed experiments to wring extra daylight out of the celestial spheres.

Which is why the annual loony-tune attempt by some southern (almost always Tory) MP to change the time zones again is greeted with howls of derisive laughter up here.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

We're well to the north of the Tors. The main disadvantage of more dark mornings is that the roads / pavements are at their iciest, which isn't ideal for the school run / school walk / school bus. Whereas coming home in dark tends to happen after any ice has thawed and before it refreezes overnight.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
My Mum reckoned we used more coal and electricity with dark evenings.

In southern California during DST everyone gets home from work an hour earlier and promptly revs up the AC, which uses a lot more power than lighting or even heating our homes.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

If you've got AC--I grew up there without it...

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
My Mum reckoned we used more coal and electricity with dark evenings.
In southern California during DST everyone gets home from work an hour earlier and promptly revs up the AC, which uses a lot more power than lighting or even heating our homes.

Whether people get home an hour earlier is surely something the depends on whether you think time is some social construct indicated by what the clock says (in which case, people get home at the same time regardless of whether or not it's DST), or something linked to the diurnal cycle and so when someone gets home will be a variable dependent upon their geographical location and the time of year (noon will be fixed, but "half way through the afternoon" or "an hour before I can get away without the AC" will be variable).

What is time?

[I got to watch Theory of Everything on the plane over, well worth it BTW).

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Whether people get home an hour earlier is surely something the depends on whether you think time is some social construct indicated by what the clock says

Generally speaking, the time that people get home depends on what their employer thinks the clock says.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Whether people get home an hour earlier is surely something the depends on whether you think time is some social construct indicated by what the clock says
Generally speaking, the time that people get home depends on what their employer thinks the clock says.

Ayup. I have no idea what Alan was trying to do there. It was clear enough what Ruth said and meant.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I't quite simple. If the time people get home is determined by what their employers clock says, then they will get home at the same time everyday (with a little variation due to traffic conditions, whether they stop to get groceries on the way). Whether or not that time is DST. If you want to say people get home an hour earlier during DST then you need a boss that would normally look at the clock and say "that's it, 5pm, off you go" but during DST sends you home at 4pm.

If, on the other hand, you are saying "get home an hour earlier" to mean "get an extra hour of the hot afternoon using my own AC rather than the office AC" then you are using a measure of time that is different to the clock on the office wall.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

...aaaaaand you're just proving my point earlier, which is that the reason we have daylight savings time is to adjust the sun to the clock, because no-one adjusts the clock.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
So you want to live somewhere there's 13-14 hours daylight and 10-11 hours of night per 24 hours?

That isn't even wrong.
It's what I want. Got a problem with that?
Since there's nowhere on the planet (or pretty much, the solar system) that gives you more net daylight than night across a year, I'm just going to side with orbital mechanics.

[displacement activity as my jet lagged brain refuses to concentrate on work]

Here's what you need to do to have a constant 14h daylight+10h night. You need to be in motion. Maybe one of those floating apartment blocks called cruiseliners will do.

You celebrate New Year at about 30deg south (somewhere like Perth, Australia), then spend the next three month moving south until you approach the south pole for the March equinox. Now comes the tricky bit. You hightail it north, because the next stage of your year has to start at the north pole, if you're wanting those hours of daylight you don't want to stay with the penguins for the next six months.

So, if you've got to the other end of the globe you now keep working your way south for the next three months, for the June equinox somewhere 30deg north (you'll get to see the entire California coastline) before returning north towards the Arctic. Then just that tricky leap between the poles in September and work your way back north as the southern days lengthen.

Not very convenient for the daily commute to work. And, that move from one pole to the other twice a year is a right doozie. But, nothing in orbital mechanics to prevent it.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

... go to sleep, Alan.

(and yes, perfectly feasible apart from the teleport bit)

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Not going anywhere near the Arctic, thank you, it's quite cold enough on an average day in Britain.

The answer might be to get a cruise ship going slowly round the Mediterranean for a few months, thereby ensuring a more even split between daylight and night, and moving down to the equator during the winter months, taking in the Canaries and Azores, or going down through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea. Provided it could avoid all the pirates, known trouble spots, noroviruses, and all the rest of it, it could be a quite attractive solution to the problem of too much daylight at the wrong time of day.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

I hate, loathe, detest and despise the outdated practice of changing clock time. For some reason, it affects me far worse than any jet lag I've ever had. In spring and autumn I'm a saggy-eyed blundering wreck for at least a week after it happens.

We should pick whatever time is calculated to annoy the French most and stick to it. I suggest GMT + 40 minutes.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Not going anywhere near the Arctic, thank you, it's quite cold enough on an average day in Britain.

The answer might be to get a cruise ship going slowly round the Mediterranean for a few months, thereby ensuring a more even split between daylight and night, and moving down to the equator during the winter months, taking in the Canaries and Azores, or going down through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea. Provided it could avoid all the pirates, known trouble spots, noroviruses, and all the rest of it, it could be a quite attractive solution to the problem of too much daylight at the wrong time of day.

See this is why we're in dire need of the Magratheans' specialist services. Might be a millenia or two til they think it's worth it mind.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
In spring and autumn I'm a saggy-eyed blundering wreck for at least a week after it happens.

And then you come to the Ship and inflict your dysfunction on all of us. Nice.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

We hates it, we hates it forever. For me one of the hardest things about living in Paris is how dark the mornings are in the winter. It doesn’t get anywhere near light until 9 a.m. in December. Then it’s just started getting light at a sensible time in the morning when we push it back for another hour. I say it’s a giant conspiracy to make it harder for me to get out of bed. I am *very* light-sensitive. In summer I have no trouble getting up at 6:30 (which now I think about it is really 5:30 because of aforementioned buggering about with the clocks) to run ten miles. In winter nothing much is going to get me out of my pit short of the bed being on fire.

As for double summer-time: over my dead body. It’s bad enough when it gets light at 9 in the morning. If it goes to 10, I think I may actually never get out of bed again.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
In spring and autumn I'm a saggy-eyed blundering wreck for at least a week after it happens.
And then you come to the Ship and inflict your dysfunction on all of us. Nice.

No, this is just regular curmudgeonliness. Clocks don't change here till the last weekend in March. Although my current opinion that you're a fucking waste of space is probably down to my not having enough caffeine in my bloodstream yet. Get back to me after 11a.m. GMT, of course.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Oh good. Maybe after 11am you'll stop hyperventilating in Purgatory and denying parents the right to make decisions. Which is what you're doing even though you don't realise it.

Either that, or being sexist by complaining that something is against the mother's (current) wishes while ignoring the father's wishes and the mother's past wishes.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Oh good. Maybe after 11am you'll stop hyperventilating in Purgatory and denying parents the right to make decisions. Which is what you're doing even though you don't realise it.

Either that, or being sexist by complaining that something is against the mother's (current) wishes while ignoring the father's wishes and the mother's past wishes.

If you don't like what I'm saying in Purgatory, call me to Hell. Don't derail someone else's thread to score a cheap, ill-informed and incoherent point.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

[Paranoid]

Interesting tactic, this. Instructing a Hellhost*, in Hell, to call you to Hell. It's sufficiently novel that I may have to sleep on it.

*Although not, I should add, engaged in hostly activities.

[ 09. March 2015, 11:11: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
I love DST -- in the fall, when it gives me an extra hour's sleep by ending.

I'll go along with that. [Biased]

I probably grew up about as far north (59°N) as anyone who's been posting here (apart from Comet), and I never had a problem with it. For part of the winter we were going to and from school or work in the dark anyway, but that was just the way life was in winter. It was more than compensated for by the almost 24-hour daylight for a few weeks in the summer.

Now that I'm living a good deal further south (47°N) I suppose it doesn't matter so much (many Newfoundlanders would contend that we don't really need it), but I always appreciate the extra hour when the clocks go back.

As for it happening as early as it does here (yesterday), that suits me fine as there's no possibility of it clashing with Easter Sunday, when we have a service at 6 in the morning, and losing an hour's sleep on top of that would be just too much. [Snore]

Just my 2p - I appreciate that lots of people think summer time is a silly idea.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

Interesting tactic, this. Instructing a Hellhost*, in Hell, to call you to Hell. It's sufficiently novel that I may have to sleep on it.

*Although not, I should add, engaged in hostly activities.

Hardly novel. I can remember at least three told me to call them, but I found it the idea deeply boring.

Then again, it could have been personal.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
*Although not, I should add, engaged in hostly activities.

Damn right you should add that. Because you know as well as I do that if you're not "engaged in hostly activities" you're just another Shipmate.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I hate, loathe, detest and despise the outdated practice of changing clock time. For some reason, it affects me far worse than any jet lag I've ever had. In spring and autumn I'm a saggy-eyed blundering wreck for at least a week after it happens.

We should pick whatever time is calculated to annoy the French most and stick to it. I suggest GMT + 40 minutes.

Oh yes, I like that. They've still never really accepted the meridian being at Greenwich rather than Paris.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

I think we should just bite the bullet and have local time.

I discovered recently that sunrise is actually two whole minutes earlier in the place where I work than it is at home. Over the course of a year that amounts to quite a bit, though I suppose it's counterbalanced by the return journey home regaining those two extra minutes in the evening.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I hate, loathe, detest and despise the outdated practice of changing clock time. For some reason, it affects me far worse than any jet lag I've ever had. In spring and autumn I'm a saggy-eyed blundering wreck for at least a week after it happens.

Same here - I find it akin to jet-lag, but worse.

[Mad]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
*Although not, I should add, engaged in hostly activities.
Damn right you should add that. Because you know as well as I do that if you're not "engaged in hostly activities" you're just another Shipmate.

Yeah, but you were still basically instructing me on how to behave in Hell, which would often cause a Host to walk in and say "stop junior Hosting".

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
*Although not, I should add, engaged in hostly activities.
Damn right you should add that. Because you know as well as I do that if you're not "engaged in hostly activities" you're just another Shipmate.
Yeah, but you were still basically instructing me on how to behave in Hell, which would often cause a Host to walk in and say "stop junior Hosting".

And yet they didn't.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

No, for the obvious reason that one of "they" was already handling it. Me.

I don't really want to spend the rest of my morning getting all meta with you. Forget it.

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

In the days before the clocks were changed, people went to work an hour earlier in the summer than the winter, which had exactly the same effect.

For example, JS Bach's teaching day started at 6 in the summer and 7 in the winter - both the middle of the night as far as I am concerned.

I am so unaffected by changing the clocks that I find it almost unbelievable that people moan about it so much. In fact, I've never actually met anyone who says it messes them up. Odd, really.

I've got DSPS so I always feel like death warmed up when I wake up. I have to operate on the basis of waking up at the last possible time I can get to work, and going to bed when I think I might be able to sleep - which might vary between midnight and 4 am within the same week.

I am at my most active between about 6pm and 2am so light evenings are great for me. Any daylight before 9am is completely wasted on me!

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

POI--

Sorry that you've got delayed sleep-phase syndrome. Sounds like a royal pain.

IANAD, but I'm guessing the DSPS is why the change doesn't bother you. You have one kind of circadian rhythm sensitivity, and people bothered by the clock change have another.

Many Shipmates (myself included) have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)--some of us very severely. Probably, there's some correlation between SAD and the clock change.

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
We should pick whatever time is calculated to annoy the French most and stick to it. I suggest GMT + 40 minutes.

You sound a bit Nepali. They run their country on Indian time +15 minutes.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

Meh. As an inhabitant of la République, I’m quite annoyed already. Darkness until 9 o’clock in the morning is rubbish. Give me dark evenings any time.

Posted by marzipan (# 9442) on :

isn't france already on double savings time anyway, LVER? They should really be on GMT since they're the same (ish) longitude as UK/Ireland

Posted by sharkshooter (# 1589) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
DST has been linked to a rise in heart attacks and accidents.
So, yeah...

It's actually the change to DST that brings about that increase.

I would prefer DST all year long - I can deal with going to work in the dark, but would prefer to have sunlight when I get home.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
I would prefer DST all year long - I can deal with going to work in the dark, but would prefer to have sunlight when I get home.

Me too.

And really, that's all this thread boils down to - do you prefer to be up and about in the morning or the evening? Those who prefer the morning will hate DST, those who prefer the evening will love it.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

And really, that's all this thread boils down to - do you prefer to be up and about in the morning or the evening? Those who prefer the morning will hate DST, those who prefer the evening will love it.

I want anti-DST, so it gets dark in the evening all year round, so that the kids will go to bed. Blackout blinds will keep them asleep on light mornings, but don't help with trying to send them to bed when it's still light out.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I am so unaffected by changing the clocks that I find it almost unbelievable that people moan about it so much. In fact, I've never actually met anyone who says it messes them up. Odd, really.

Fancy that. You are cordially invited to come and catch a 6.20 am train each day during the week before the clocks change, then turn up on the Monday morning at the new 6.20 am and see how many people have actually made it to the station and whether they look shattered from having to get up somewhere around what last week, was 4.30 am or thereabouts. I will be one of them.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
I would prefer DST all year long - I can deal with going to work in the dark, but would prefer to have sunlight when I get home.
Me too.

And really, that's all this thread boils down to - do you prefer to be up and about in the morning or the evening? Those who prefer the morning will hate DST, those who prefer the evening will love it.

Sure, I love having an extra hour to hike and ride the damn bike after work, especially now that this infernal slushfest of a winter is ending (maybe), but that's me. I'm allergic to mornings, so it's no surprise that I'm sad to see the sun go down an hour earlier.

But, let's face it, a lot of us are even more allergic to change. It's why we still can't use the metric system. It's why people are still nostalgic (often on the same threads in which the Imperial system gets defended) for shillings. "Why do we have to do something different?" isn't just reserved for meetings of the worship committee.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
I would prefer DST all year long - I can deal with going to work in the dark, but would prefer to have sunlight when I get home.
Me too.

And really, that's all this thread boils down to - do you prefer to be up and about in the morning or the evening? Those who prefer the morning will hate DST, those who prefer the evening will love it.

Horseshit. Way to miss the point, Mister Bright Light.

I want to not have to change the clocks for no apparent reason twice a year. If anyone, ever, could give me a real, solid reason why this is important to society as a whole, I'm open to hearing it. But I hear either individual preference based on the sunlight patterns of other places, or really lame pontificating about our economic viability. Not a single good reason why this makes any fucking sense at all. And yet it is the governmental order of the day.

If I want to stay up later or get up earlier, that's my fucking business. If you want to, fine. I really don't give a half shit what others choose to do. So why do we have to go through this stupid dance twice a year so some people feel better about wanting to stay up late or get up early? Government is already way too much into our personal business. There is nothing wrong with having a time and sticking to it.

In my world, it's particularly stupid, as the daylight change over the seasons is particularly dramatic and one hour of change is really pointless. If you all down there in the boring photoperiod part of the world want to put yourself through this dumbass dance twice a year to give yourself an excuse to stay up late, go for it. It's a game of self-delusion, but whatever flips your willy. I don't care.

But in about 6 weeks, I will no longer have any night time to speak of. An arbitrary clock change does nothing but send us all through this little dance and make me stay late at work for a week.

It ain't about my personal preferences. No matter what the clock says, if I'm want to stay up late, I will. If I want to get up early, I will. I promise not to make any of you have to change your futhermucking clocks to suit my schedule.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I want to not have to change the clocks for no apparent reason twice a year.

Me too. That's why I agreed with sharkey that having DST all year round would be a fabulous thing.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Call me old-fashioned, but noon should mean the sun is at least somewhere near its highest point in the sky...

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
But in about 6 weeks, I will no longer have any night time to speak of. An arbitrary clock change does nothing but send us all through this little dance and make me stay late at work for a week.

It ain't about my personal preferences. No matter what the clock says, if I'm want to stay up late, I will. If I want to get up early, I will. I promise not to make any of you have to change your futhermucking clocks to suit my schedule.

Exactly. The town I live in is 60 degrees north yet still in the south of the country. Absolutely fucking futile the whole thing.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

In my world, it's particularly stupid, as the daylight change over the seasons is particularly dramatic and one hour of change is really pointless.

So why does your state do DST? You can't blame that one on the rest of us - you, as a state, are free to not do it.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
If I want to stay up later or get up earlier, that's my fucking business. If you want to, fine. I really don't give a half shit what others choose to do.

Of course, not everyone has the choice about when they start and finish work. Some jobs require people to start and finish at the same time. And, even if your employer can easily accommodate you working at a time that suits you, you'll still need to fit that around other external factors - maybe you have children and you're working around school hours, there are constraints based on when the trains and buses run, etc. Which, basically means there needs to be some commonly agreed normal work pattern and associated time zone. It will have to be a compromise that works best for the majority of people in that region, and like any compromise will therefore actually be ideal for very few.

None of which justifies arbitrarily changing that time twice a year.

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
I am so unaffected by changing the clocks that I find it almost unbelievable that people moan about it so much. In fact, I've never actually met anyone who says it messes them up. Odd, really.
Fancy that. You are cordially invited to come and catch a 6.20 am train each day during the week before the clocks change, then turn up on the Monday morning at the new 6.20 am and see how many people have actually made it to the station and whether they look shattered from having to get up somewhere around what last week, was 4.30 am or thereabouts. I will be one of them.

Rude.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by marzipan:
isn't france already on double savings time anyway, LVER? They should really be on GMT since they're the same (ish) longitude as UK/Ireland

It's been really interesting looking at the sunrise and sunset times for some cities in Europe. According to the iPhone weather app sunrise in Paris is, based on local time, later than a collection of not-so-random cities (more on that elsewhere once I'm organised).

London 6:22 am, Copenhagen 6:35am, Edinburgh 6:40am, Amsterdam 7:01 am, Paris 7:11 am.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
orfeo: According to the iPhone weather app sunrise in Paris is, based on local time, later than a collection of not-so-random cities

Like I said before on this thread, this is because of the nazi's. When they conquered countries like the Netherlands, Belgium and France, they moved them to German time. After the war ended, these countries kind of forgot to move back (or they rather liked to have permanent DST).

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

AO- I'm also at 60. Also in the south. We're latitude twins! Too bad you're so batshit otherwise.

And Learning Cnuckt (I'll be damned if I'll ever get your name right, sorry) that's a very good question. See page one. Synopsis: i'm governed by troglodytes.

Alan- didn't mean to imply people could all go work when they like. Wouldn't that be awesome? One of my jobs I start at 5 am, so i wasnt addressing work. But on this thread and elsewhere people were talking about how DST allows them to stay up later in the summer (as if darkness forces them into a coma) and that's what I was talking about.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Alan- didn't mean to imply people could all go work when they like. Wouldn't that be awesome? ... But on this thread and elsewhere people were talking about how DST allows them to stay up later in the summer (as if darkness forces them into a coma) and that's what I was talking about.

The two are related.

If you want an extra hour of daylight after work to potter around the garden, go into work an hour earlier and knock off earlier. If you struggle to get up while it's still dark and want an extra hour of light before you need to leave for work, start work an hour later. It would have exactly the same effect as changing the clocks, but only affects you. And, you could arrange the time shift to suit you, say adjust your alarm clock 10 minutes every week and spread that hour change over 6 weeks so you don't have the shock of doing it all at once.

That is, if work (and associated infrastructure such as the train timetable) allows it, which isn't going to be the case for many people.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell
And, you could arrange the time shift to suit you, say adjust your alarm clock 10 minutes every week and spread that hour change over 6 weeks so you don't have the shock of doing it all at once.

When we switch to DST I make the change over four days. Four days before the official change, I set my bedside clock ahead fifteen minutes. The next night another fifteen minutes, etc. I go to bed earlier the third night and fourth nights because I'm sleepy earlier.

It's much easier for me to adjust to the time change that way.

Moo

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If you want an extra hour of daylight after work to potter around the garden, go into work an hour earlier and knock off earlier.

That might work for solo activities like gardening. But without the extra hour of sunlight in the evening the midweek cricket league I play in would be impossible, as there would be no way everybody would be able to just clock off from work an hour early.

Of course, if the only problem is the actual clock change itself then we could implement a nationwide agreement that the clocks stay on GMT all year round, but between March and October everybody's work hours get moved, such that a 9-5 job becomes an 8-4. That way the clocks can stay the same and those of us that like having extra sunlit hours after work are happy. Would that be OK with all the DST-haters?

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

^ If they fall for that, consider a career in politics.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

Generally speaking, yes.

Everyone's hours changing to accomodate your cricket practice? No. I don't expect everyone else to get up with me for my morning news shift, either.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Why not just work 8 till 4 all year round? At 55N, it would make exactly zero difference. The schools go from 0830 to 1530, so I can even see benefits.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If you want an extra hour of daylight after work to potter around the garden, go into work an hour earlier and knock off earlier.
That might work for solo activities like gardening. But without the extra hour of sunlight in the evening the midweek cricket league I play in would be impossible, as there would be no way everybody would be able to just clock off from work an hour early.

Of course, if the only problem is the actual clock change itself then we could implement a nationwide agreement that the clocks stay on GMT all year round, but between March and October everybody's work hours get moved, such that a 9-5 job becomes an 8-4. That way the clocks can stay the same and those of us that like having extra sunlit hours after work are happy. Would that be OK with all the DST-haters?

No. Why the fuck should my fucking sleep be fucked up just because fucking YOU want to fucking play fucking cricket?

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Why not just work 8 till 4 all year round? At 55N, it would make exactly zero difference. The schools go from 0830 to 1530, so I can even see benefits.

Because it would mean getting my arse out of bed a whole lot earlier and it requires superhuman effort as it is.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why the fuck should my fucking sleep be fucked up just because fucking YOU want to fucking play fucking cricket?

One might as well ask why an entire fucking sports league should be fucked up just because fucking YOU can't be arsed to fucking go to fucking bed a fucking hour earlier for one fucking day a year.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think they should simply make these cricket matches shorter.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I didn't realize that cricket was involved, now this puts a very different complexion on matters.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I think they should simply make these cricket matches shorter.

Done that. In most of June and July we often played thirty overs per side, finishing just about 8:30pm. Rest of the season twenty.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I think they should simply make these cricket matches shorter.
Done that. In most of June and July we often played thirty overs per side, finishing just about 8:30pm. Rest of the season twenty.

I was thinking more like 10mins

Posted by Lolly (# 13347) on :

I’ve tried to explain to the dogs that our schedule has been pushed off an hour but they’re just not getting it.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why the fuck should my fucking sleep be fucked up just because fucking YOU want to fucking play fucking cricket?
One might as well ask why an entire fucking sports league should be fucked up just because fucking YOU can't be arsed to fucking go to fucking bed a fucking hour earlier for one fucking day a year.

Daylight savings time isn't one fucking day a year it's the whole fucking summer. What drug are you on, fuckboy?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

With all the apparent crankiness, this thread is a massive anti-DST argument.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

It's more than half the year in the US - second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November. And it sucks donkey balls.

Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on :

Ah, I enjoyed the later, lingering dusk yesterday evening. [Razz]

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why the fuck should my fucking sleep be fucked up just because fucking YOU want to fucking play fucking cricket?
One might as well ask why an entire fucking sports league should be fucked up just because fucking YOU can't be arsed to fucking go to fucking bed a fucking hour earlier for one fucking day a year.
Daylight savings time isn't one fucking day a year it's the whole fucking summer. What drug are you on, fuckboy?

Surely it only takes one day to adapt - go to bed an hour earlier, have the same amount of sleep as usual, wake up an hour earlier than usual (except because of the time change it's the same time as usual), and boom! You're back on the same timings as you always were, having had the same amount of sleep.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

Surely it only takes one day to adapt - go to bed an hour earlier, have the same amount of sleep as usual, wake up an hour earlier than usual (except because of the time change it's the same time as usual), and boom! You're back on the same timings as you always were, having had the same amount of sleep.

Or not. Because (a) you aren't sleepy an hour earlier and (b) when you wake up, it's bloody dark and thus completely inconducive to waking up.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Marvin--

Some people's circadian rhythms don't adjust well.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

I sure wish I could figure out how to change the clock in my car. I try to keep track of what the hour is, but it's not easy for this elderly brain to calculate. Yeah, yeah I know it's not high in priority compared to the screwed up, horrible world problems, but it seems to me it is an annoyance that could easily be avoided.

Around here, the old-timers talk about "quick time" and "slow time". I can't even figure out which is which. Sad, isn't it?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

It is time for chocolate. This is all anyone need know.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Surely it only takes one day to adapt - go to bed an hour earlier, have the same amount of sleep as usual, wake up an hour earlier than usual (except because of the time change it's the same time as usual), and boom! You're back on the same timings as you always were, having had the same amount of sleep.

I'm pleased you can adapt so easily. May it always be so. Can you please consider in the back of your mind that maybe some other people cannot? That it really messes with their systems for more than one day?

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Surely it only takes one day to adapt - go to bed an hour earlier, have the same amount of sleep as usual, wake up an hour earlier than usual (except because of the time change it's the same time as usual), and boom! You're back on the same timings as you always were, having had the same amount of sleep.

Are you actually able to do that-- just climb into bed an hour early and magically fall asleep?

[Disappointed]

(green w/ envy)

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

I tend to do it on the Sunday, because then I'm tired an hour earlier than usual anyway. Honestly, it's not a big problem for me.

Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
It's more than half the year in the US - second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November. And it sucks donkey balls.

quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
Ah, I enjoyed the later, lingering dusk yesterday evening.

Most of don't enjoy sucking donkey balls in the lingering dusk, but, whatever floats your boat...

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

Well, what is food for thought is that if you're an inhabitant of Xinjiang, you run your clocks on Beijing time. That's about 3 1/2 hours off local time. It's like having DST three times over, not just for 7 months a year, but pretty much all your life. Try that on for size.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
... go to bed an hour earlier, have the same amount of sleep as usual, wake up an hour earlier than usual ...

I think you and I must just be lucky, Marvin - that's more-or-less the way I see it. I'll admit to finding myself feeling a bit sleepy coming up to the winter change, and thinking, "I'm really looking forward to that extra hour in bed", but I tend to treat the spring change in the way you suggest.

At least that's the theory - I'm a terrible night-owl, and the intention of going to bed an hour earlier doesn't always get translated into an actual occurrence ... [Help]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
... go to bed an hour earlier, have the same amount of sleep as usual, wake up an hour earlier than usual ...
I think you and I must just be lucky, Marvin - that's more-or-less the way I see it. I'll admit to finding myself feeling a bit sleepy coming up to the winter change, and thinking, "I'm really looking forward to that extra hour in bed", but I tend to treat the spring change in the way you suggest.

At least that's the theory - I'm a terrible night-owl, and the intention of going to bed an hour earlier doesn't always get translated into an actual occurrence ...

Piglet, you have the advantage of having lived in Orkney, where you have to go to sleep through a fair amount of daylight (and work through a good deal of darkness) as a matter of course.

My understanding is that the circadian rhythm is a shade more than 24 hours and this offset enables us to shift our body clock. Maybe not immediately, but it enables us to overcome jetlag which is far more disruptive.

I'm just lucky though: I'm a night owl so a longer day is OK and I sleep pretty much at any time of day.

[ 15. March 2015, 10:52: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
My understanding is that the circadian rhythm is a shade more than 24 hours and this offset enables us to shift our body clock. Maybe not immediately, but it enables us to overcome jetlag which is far more disruptive.

It depends on the person. "morning" people have shorter body clocks, which tell them to go to bed sooner, and "night" people have longer body clocks which don't tell them to go to bed.

Sunlight helps set our clock. I've seen advice that people with shorter clocks should maximise their exposure to sunlight in the late afternoon if they want to keep going longer, but people with longer clocks need to reduce their exposure to sunlight in the latter part of the day so that their body gets the message to wind down sooner.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

My internal clock is tied to the sun. I wake at sunrise pretty naturally. Sunrise is now after 7 am, but I have be at work by 8. I won't be adjusted to the time change until sometime in April.

Posted by marzipan (# 9442) on :

I'm just glad to be out of the December/ January misery of "arrive at work as the sun is rising, leave after it has already set". By the time the clocks go forward, I don't really notice as the sun is up early enough before I leave the house anyway (October is always miserable though even with the extra holiday we get in Ireland around that time)

Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on :

quote:
Originally posted by marzipan:
(October is always miserable though even with the extra holiday we get in Ireland around that time)

My first full October in England is what revealed that I probably have seasonal disorder. DST ending then just made it worse.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... Piglet, you have the advantage of having lived in Orkney, where you have to go to sleep through a fair amount of daylight (and work through a good deal of darkness) as a matter of course ...

Absolutely - and that may well be why the seasonal changes don't really bother me.

I remember as a child (when one was expected to go to bed at, say 8:30 at night) not really wanting to, as it was still light (and would be for some time), but I just had to get used to it.

I wonder if there's a nature/nurture dichotomy in the circadian rhythms of people who grew up in Northerly Latitudes - are we less likely to be adversely affected by the time changes, or to suffer from SAD?

Might make an interesting subject for a thesis ... [Smile]

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
It depends on the person. "morning" people have shorter body clocks, which tell them to go to bed sooner, and "night" people have longer body clocks which don't tell them to go to bed.

Sunlight helps set our clock. I've seen advice that people with shorter clocks should maximise their exposure to sunlight in the late afternoon if they want to keep going longer, but people with longer clocks need to reduce their exposure to sunlight in the latter part of the day so that their body gets the message to wind down sooner.

I'm more of a morning person than a night person. When I was pregnant with my son, I wouldn't feel the first kicks till 10am, and when I was trying to get to sleep at night, he'd be bouncing around partying away till 1am.

After he was born he had exactly the same sleeping / waking pattern. My midwife said he'd probably have that sleep pattern for life. He's now in his twenties and still the same.

The sun, or lack thereof, seems to have no impact on him.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I wonder if there's a nature/nurture dichotomy in the circadian rhythms of people who grew up in Northerly Latitudes - are we less likely to be adversely affected by the time changes, or to suffer from SAD?

Might make an interesting subject for a thesis ...

I think there is some research on this already. Several things help. One is staying active, particularly with outdoor activity. Too much sedentary and inactivity harms coping. Regardless of the weather, amount of light, temperature, get your sorry self outside and exert a little. A little exertion means you're in the present because you're straining, and if you're not in the present, exert harder.

A second is not to complain and not to fight the seasonal changes. The world is ours to live in, not our's to control. Despite what everyone seems to think.

Third, talk to a doctor or someone who knows about whether you should take vitamin D (and calcium while you're at it).

Fourth, see about getting lights if your trouble is significant with seasonal change. Again talk to some health care person about it.

Fifth, blow up your TV, throw away your cell phone, get out into the country, build you a life.

Personally I like all seasons. Except the season of melt-freeze-melt-snow-melt etc, which is fully underway.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Actually, people who've lived in northern climes all their lives get SAD, too.

Researchers used to think it was just displaced southerners. They did try talking to Scandinavians, because of the winter short days and long nights. Initially, the researchers thought Scandinavians weren't affected.

Then they changed their technique and asked questions differently. They found that lots of Scandinavians have SAD; and just about everyone there has some relative who basically holes up for the winter. Culturally, though, they just didn't think of it as a problem.

I found that out when I was looking into my own possible SAD. I think it was in The Hibernation Response. I'm of Scandinavian heritage, among other N. Euro groups, and I have severe SAD, requiring medication.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

When I lived in New Hampshire I had a mild case of SAD. Then someone advised me to spend a half-hour or forty-five minutes outdoors when the sun was at its highest. Even when it was overcast, the sun shining through the clouds was enough.

Moo

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

I'm working tomorrow, and am resenting the fact that someone is going to run off cackling into the darkness with an hour of my sleep bundled into their swag-bag tonight.

I won't even remember about it in a week, but the thought of it tonight is making me grumpy, and slightly worried that my phone and/or my radio won't automatically change and that I'll end up being late. I hate being late.

Posted by crunt (# 1321) on :

I saw this hilarious spoof on Facebook

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by crunt:
I saw this hilarious spoof on Facebook

I was ready to hate you.

But actually, it's well done, so kudos.

Posted by marzipan (# 9442) on :

remembered to change the time on my alarm clock last night. Did not remember to set the alarm!

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
I'm working tomorrow, and am resenting the fact that someone is going to run off cackling into the darkness with an hour of my sleep bundled into their swag-bag tonight.

Thanks for the hour luvanddaises, though I won't be using it until next Saturday night when I will have a whole hour's more sleep so I can wake up refreshed for Easter Day [Yipee]

I am already feeding my cat a bit later to gradually get her used to it.

Huia

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

No changing of clocks in India - and I haven't had to worry about the clock change three weeks before the end of winter for over a decade. By the time I return home I am so jetlagged that I hardly notice the clocks. That being said, it is easier travelling west, and I quite enjoy the stopover in the UK.

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Huia:

quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
I'm working tomorrow, and am resenting the fact that someone is going to run off cackling into the darkness with an hour of my sleep bundled into their swag-bag tonight.

Thanks for the hour luvanddaises, though I won't be using it until next Saturday night when I will have a whole hour's more sleep so I can wake up refreshed for Easter Day

I am already feeding my cat a bit later to gradually get her used to it.

Huia

Bloody hell, if you're willing to fly all the way from the antipodes just to stuff an hour of my sleep in a sack and fly back again, you've earned it.
Even so, [Mad]

[ 31. March 2015, 19:39: Message edited by: luvanddaisies ]

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
... I will have a whole hour's more sleep so I can wake up refreshed for Easter Day ...

[grits teeth] I hope you enjoy it. [Two face]

We have a sung Eucharist with New Fire at 6 o'clock in the bloody morning on Easter Day, so I'll be up at silly o'clock to go and sing at it.

The one good thing about our daylight-saving time starting on the second Sunday in March is that there's no danger of it clashing with Easter (which it could when the clocks went forward later in the month).

[Snore]

[ 01. April 2015, 01:03: Message edited by: Piglet ]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
The one good thing about our daylight-saving time starting on the second Sunday in March is that there's no danger of it clashing with Easter (which it could when the clocks went forward later in the month).

Yes, I remember one Easter when that happened.

Moo

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
The one good thing about our daylight-saving time starting on the second Sunday in March is that there's no danger of it clashing with Easter (which it could when the clocks went forward later in the month).
Yes, I remember one Easter when that happened.

Moo

So do I because we started our Easter Vigiol at 5am so it felt like 4 am.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

I remember it too. There was a planned sunrise service and no-one was sure when sunrise was.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

Daylight savings ends here Sunday night. Easter Sunday. As Huia says, an extra hour for us.

About time too. I quite like daylight savings in general, but it has been as black in morning lately as at midnight..

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Travelling 36 hours, complete with delays and sitting next to rowdy children, has shown up the trivial whining on this thread for what it is.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Don't knock trivial whining. Where would Hell be without it?

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