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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: ...Worse than just a volunteer deputy...
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
In Oklahoma, recently, a volunteer deputy (Bob Bates) killed Eric Harris. Bates blamed it on grabbing his gun rather than his taser.
However, the case is complicated, involving a lot of corruption--so much that some of Bates' supervisors were transferred because they wouldn't sign off on it.
Unjust police killing of Tulsa man, Eric Harris, reveals a deep and dangerous scandal in Oklahoma. (DailyKos)
There's plenty of blame to go around.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Macho US police department makes up the rules as they go along, based on their own local prejudices and endemic underlying corruption. Someone gets killed. Nothing will happen, because nothing ever happens. Lots of fuss in the press for a day or two until something more interesting comes along.
America, where money rules.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I don't know how the "volunteer deputy" system works, but it seems to me that no matter how rich he is, and what proportion of his riches he gives to the police force, 73 is probably too old to be on active duty. Especially armed active duty.
And if he can't tell the difference between a Taser and a gun, should he be allowed to handle either?
[DISCLAIMER: I'm British, so I don't really understand why policemen should have guns at all, unless they've been trained to use them, and then only in specific circumstances.]
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
I believe a volunteer deputy is someone who is prepared to pay (in cash or kind) a sheriff for permission to legally carry a weapon in places where that would not normally be permitted.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
passer--
Definitely in this case, at least. But there are probably small towns that have legitimate ones, just like having volunteer firefighters.
Piglet--
I heard that (some) English police now carry guns.
Re confusing gun and taser:
Several years ago, there was a case in Oakland, CA where transit cop Johannes Meserle shot and killed Oscar grant in a BART subway station. (Commemorated in the movie "Fruitvale".) Meserle claimed he meant to use his taser. IIRC, other cases were brought up, at the time.
If it really easy to confuse a taser with the handle of a gun, maybe manufacturers could put some special texture on the taser, so the user can tell by feel what it is.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
In the UK, gun carry is restricted. Very few officers outside of Northern Ireland carry firearms. Those that do receive much more intensive training than the vast majority or American police.
ETA: Taser vs firearm. Again this is training. The typical police carry taser is very gun-like to facilitate its use. Texture, in the heat of the moment, is not likely to register.
[ 17. April 2015, 17:51: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Information dump.
Police workforce breakdown, in England and Wales approx 125,000 police officers and approx 18,000 special constables. Only 61% of the police workforce are actually police officers. The history of UK armed police can be found here, currently I believe we have only about 7000 in England & Wales, excluding military police and nuclear site guards.
The population of England & Wales is about 56 million total, nearest US state in size is California - 38 million - and that apparently has about 90,000 "fully-sworn" law enforcement dudes.
(Special constables are trained volunteer police officers, I seriously doubt any armed police are specials.)
[ 17. April 2015, 18:50: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Incidentally, here, is a picture of UK armed police on a standard duty at a train station (much as you would see at airports, on patrol rather than responding to a specific incident).
As you can see, though they do have a glock pistol strapped to the thigh, their main weapon is a Hechler & Koch semi-automatic machine pistol. Their guns are black, the taser is yellow, and is holstered in the centre on the chest - well away from the pistol, presumably to reduce the likelihood of confusing the two.
[ 17. April 2015, 19:03: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Actual police shooting figures.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
I have a former high school friend who's a reserve sheriff's deputy in a fairly large town; he works full-time as a graphic designer and video producer, then at night makes traffic stops and otherwise acts like a sheriff's deputy. Somehow, he manages to fit all this in between his busy schedule of making facebook posts to help all the "civilians" understand the reality of being a cop, the most maligned and unappreciated group in America (#bluelivesmatter) and pictures of guns he wants to buy. This summer, he's getting SWAT training so he can use heavy weapons on the job. From what I can tell, the factproof ego he had back when I knew him hasn't gotten any better.
To say I don't exactly feel safe having him patrolling the streets is a bit of an understatement. Not that he's a bad person, just...has questionable judgment, a complete lack of self-doubt or reflection, and access to some very impressive weapons.
Naturally, he's telling everyone that Harris had it coming to him, what did we expect Bates to do? This is just another part of the smear campaign against law enforcement officers like him.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Their guns are black, the taser is yellow, and is holstered in the centre on the chest - well away from the pistol, presumably to reduce the likelihood of confusing the two.
A quick search shows American cops seem to either wear on the same belt as their firearm but either setup for the non-dominate hand or cross draw.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
ETA: Taser vs firearm. Again this is training. The typical police carry taser is very gun-like to facilitate its use. Texture, in the heat of the moment, is not likely to register.
Actually, I was thinking the texture might register *more*, due to kinesthetic memory. E.g., if you (gen.) play a musical instrument, your fingers eventually know what to do, without you consciously thinking, "I put my 3rd finger *here* for a C note...". So I was thinking that if the officers' fingers had an extra, unconscious cue, it might slightly increase the chance that they'd choose the right weapon.
I wonder if they do practice drills where they use both weapons, as randomly directed, and get points for using the right one?
Are they taught a conscious thought process for figuring out whether to even draw a weapon, or is it all supposed to become automatic?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Actual police shooting figures.
This was recently circulating in another place.
But nobody really knows how many people are killed by US police on duty; the FBI keeps figures but the individual forces do not have to pass the figures on to it.
Whereas the UK police have to account for every bullet.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
ETA: Taser vs firearm. Again this is training. The typical police carry taser is very gun-like to facilitate its use. Texture, in the heat of the moment, is not likely to register.
Actually, I was thinking the texture might register *more*, due to kinesthetic memory. E.g., if you (gen.) play a musical instrument, your fingers eventually know what to do, without you consciously thinking, "I put my 3rd finger *here* for a C note...". So I was thinking that if the officers' fingers had an extra, unconscious cue, it might slightly increase the chance that they'd choose the right weapon.
I wonder if they do practice drills where they use both weapons, as randomly directed, and get points for using the right one?
Are they taught a conscious thought process for figuring out whether to even draw a weapon, or is it all supposed to become automatic?
From what I can tell, training in the US is very uneven. There is a very basic national standard, but essentially it is left up to regional entities. It is woefully inadequate in the vast majority of situation that I am aware of.
As far as kinesthetic memory, there are a couple of issues.
One, is that the situations in which one should be drawing a weapon vs. playing an instrument are vastly different. Their is no comparison.
Second, no police department in the world will have the same hours of practice that a serious musician has.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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