Thread: Gunships & Gobshites - the Katie Hopkins thread Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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"Do to others as you would have them do to you."
If that's a maxim Katie Hopkins adheres to, then she can have no objection to us chasing her out of the country, forcing her to flee for her life, risk drowning, only for us to pull up a boat alongside, not to rescue but to open fire upon her .
This is just the latest in a long line of stupid, ill-thought out, hate-fuelled, ignorant things she has said. Immune to thinking, in particular thinking that she might ever be wrong, she abuses free speech like a motorcyclist attaching a dog lead to a Harley Davidson, doing 90mph and claiming that they're taking the dog for a walk.
Fuck you, you professional gobshite. You are a stain on this earth and the world would be a better place without you.
Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on
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She'll get sacked. She makes Clarkson look like Mother Teresa.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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From the OP:
quote:
If that's a maxim Katie Hopkins adheres to
The only maxim Hopkins adheres to is: "It's All About Me"
Hence she strives to be endlessly offensive so that that people will pay attention to her. I doubt she even thinks these things - she has too great a range of subjects to have invested much thought into any of them - she just wants the attention.
Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
She'll get sacked. She makes Clarkson look like Mother Teresa.
She certainly should be, but I can't see the Sun sacking her for saying something that they printed.
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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I've signed one of the petitions calling for her to be dropped.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Why do people buy the Sun? If the editors want to stick by someone saying such vile idiocy then let them do that with reduced circulation of their not even good enough for loo roll publication.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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She's said she'll leave the UK if Labour win the election. When she announced that, a popular social media site suddenly filled up with offers from people to buy her ticket for her.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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Don't kid yourselves that Katie Hopkin's proposal isn't popular amongst Sun readers.
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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Or, indeed, the Dirty Digger himself who is, after all, in his own words, a 'Bloody Foreigner' to these shores.
Posted by Laurelin (# 17211) on
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Hopkins is an unpleasant woman. I don't know whether she actually believes the ghastly things she comes out with, but she does seem to regard herself as a professional shock-jock. Her recent opinions on dementia and depression were also repugnant and wrong-headed.
A friend of mine also pointed out that it's the Sun Editor who approved her appalling article who should also be sacked. The Sun basically approved an article advocating mass murder. Deeply shocking and worrying, in this present political climate.
But of course they won't be sacked, and of course Murdoch will not issue an apology.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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I suppose she's a professional troll, so always seeking new ways to shock. The interesting thing about this piece is that it sounds like IS, so maybe this kind of dehumanization is spreading round the world, and there are weird mirror-images going on.
The other odd thing is that she suffers badly from epilepsy, but seems to talk to herself equally harshly, too bad, just get over yourself, and so on.
[ 20. April 2015, 15:59: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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Just because someone like flagellation doesn't mean they should inflict a whipping on others.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Reminded of something by all this and then I remembered what it was: Winston Smith's description of a newsfilm he'd seen in 1984:
quote:
April 4th, 1984. Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean. ... then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20 kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood. then there was a wonderful shot of a child’s arm going up up up right up into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it up...
Of course, what Orwell didn't suggest that there might be some ghastly overblown non-entity introducing this as a reality TV docusoap.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Hopkins is an utterly vile being. She delights in saying things that a number of her readers agree with, but no politician would ever even consider saying (even Farage seems mild by comparison).
It is tempting to argue that she should simply be ignored, but when she is publishing her hate in a national chip paper, that is not a valid response. It needs to be responded to. I am just struggling to know in what way this actually justifies a proper response.
Should we be opening our arms to people escaping from all sorts of countries into Europe? Absolutely we should. Does the fact that our legendary hospitality is being taken for granted mean that we should close our doors? No. But we should put effort into finding those sick bastards who take peoples money, set then adrift in a leaking boat, knowing that half of them will probably die.
And when we find them, lock them in a room with Hopkins. And throw away the key. We are better off without any of them.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
She's said she'll leave the UK if Labour win the election. When she announced that, a popular social media site suddenly filled up with offers from people to buy her ticket for her.
Dear God, she'd probably see here* as an attractive option.
*My usual here. Not my current location nearly 17,000 kilometres elsewhere.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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It occurs to me that she has got herself into an appalling place, from where, even if she wants to, she cannot escape. She has adopted a persona which has taken over, and been enabled by the people who have given her airtime, and print space, and paid her for it.
I don't hold with the idea of possession, but I imagine this is what it would look like. You can't really call her to hell, because she is already there.
Goodness knows what her family life is like.
[ 20. April 2015, 19:34: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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The only hope I'm holding out is that Hopkins' swivel-eyed loon impersonation is one of the side-effects from her anticonvulsants.
Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
It occurs to me that she has got herself into an appalling place, from where, even if she wants to, she cannot escape. She has adopted a persona which has taken over, and been enabled by the people who have given her airtime, and print space, and paid her for it.
I don't hold with the idea of possession, but I imagine this is what it would look like. You can't really call her to hell, because she is already there.
Goodness knows what her family life is like.
That is exceptionally compassionate of you.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The only hope I'm holding out is that Hopkins' swivel-eyed loon impersonation is one of the side-effects from her anticonvulsants.
Some people claim a link between epilepsy and Asperger's, but I think it's a tentative one. I saw her once say that there's something wrong with her brain, more like her soul.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
It occurs to me that she has got herself into an appalling place, from where, even if she wants to, she cannot escape. She has adopted a persona which has taken over, and been enabled by the people who have given her airtime, and print space, and paid her for it.
I don't hold with the idea of possession, but I imagine this is what it would look like. You can't really call her to hell, because she is already there.
Goodness knows what her family life is like.
That is exceptionally compassionate of you.
I think it is, because she was an arrogant shit on the apprentice. She stood out rather less there, because it seems to be a precondition. Since then she has merely capitalised on that aspect of herself.
So I think her persona is entirely of her own making.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
She's said she'll leave the UK if Labour win the election. When she announced that, a popular social media site suddenly filled up with offers from people to buy her ticket for her.
Dear God, she'd probably see here* as an attractive option.
*My usual here. Not my current location nearly 17,000 kilometres elsewhere.
It just occurred to me that she's said, in effect, that if we don't start being brutal and inhumane to migrants, she'll become one.
Now that would almost be worth a gunship!
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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It is possible that she is somehow disabled cognitively, in which case, she needs help, but would probably deny that vehemently.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It is possible that she is somehow disabled cognitively, in which case, she needs help, but would probably deny that vehemently.
I think she's just a perfectly-evolved capitalist. The persona is part of her business plan.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It is possible that she is somehow disabled cognitively, in which case, she needs help, but would probably deny that vehemently.
I think she's just a perfectly-evolved capitalist. The persona is part of her business plan.
Well, severe epilepsy bas been linked with some cognitive disorders, e.g. lack of empathy. I noticed the other day, she kept saying, I don't care, and it's possible that she can't. But yes, it fits some areas of capitalism.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Don't kid yourselves that Katie Hopkin's proposal isn't popular amongst Sun readers.
Then perhaps we need to get rid of Sun readers.
Maybe the gunships would be a bit extreme to meet that end. But, there must be some way of making people seen reading the Sun, or buying it at the newstand, some form of social pariah.
At least until the editorial policy in the Sun "newsroom" (if that word can be applied in relation to creations of works of fiction rather than reporting news) is changed.
The easy way would be to hit the bottom line. Even Murdoch would notice that. Organise a boycott of companies that place advertisements in the Sun. Let your local supermarket know that if you see the Sun on sale there you'll shop elsewhere, how long before Tescos realise that the small income from selling a newspaper isn't worth the loss of even a few dozen customers?
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Just one question, to myself as well as others: why are we all paying this absurd person the compliment of discussing her?
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Just one question, to myself as well as others: why are we all paying this absurd person the compliment of discussing her?
I think there is something disturbing in seeing such comments in a newspaper; some people are describing them as Nazi-like, which may be a bit strong. I find it ominous, coupled with UKIP type hate-fests.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Let your local supermarket know that if you see the Sun on sale there you'll shop elsewhere, how long before Tescos realise that the small income from selling a newspaper isn't worth the loss of even a few dozen customers?
Tesco and every other supermarket and a proportion of independent retailers and general stores. It wouldn't leave much in the way of outlets. How about signing the petition instead?
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Let your local supermarket know that if you see the Sun on sale there you'll shop elsewhere, how long before Tescos realise that the small income from selling a newspaper isn't worth the loss of even a few dozen customers?
Tesco and every other supermarket and a proportion of independent retailers and general stores. It wouldn't leave much in the way of outlets. How about signing the petition instead?
Surely it's an and not an or. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I'm not sure that it would make that much difference. Almost no one in Liverpool buys The Sun due to their comments on Hillsbourgh. Years of back-pedding and the odd apology hasn't made much difference to that fact.
I think the problem is that Hopkins' celeb persona is that she says horrible, shocking things. And she justifies it / sells it on the basis that everyone secretly thinks many of those things, but they're too shy / polite to say them. Actually this is incorrect. Many people don't say them because they don't think them at all. Because they're horrible, bigoted and hateful.
Tubbs
[ 21. April 2015, 12:27: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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Picture the scene. On the Last Great Day, St Peter himself shows her through the gates of the Eternal City to her place in the Heavenly Choir. Too late, she notices that on her left is a homeless person, on her right is a migrant. Behind her is someone who had to live their life on welfare, and in front is someone who in their earthly life was morbidly obese.
It'll be hell!
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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Response to Tubbs.
Enough people do think them, though. Combined with the number of people who enjoy the controversial even if they do not completely agree, and it is enough to sell that ink on loo paper rubbish.
[ 21. April 2015, 14:30: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
I've signed one of the petitions calling for her to be dropped.
So have I.
The first time I saw her on TV, she said people on disability benefits were lazy and she went on to say that she once broke her leg but kept on walking - 'You just have to get on with it.'
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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The young lady in front of me at the supermarket today bought three items:
1. A sandwich.
2. A copy of "The Sun".
3. A copy of the "Daily Mail".
Nice to know that she's picking up a wide range of carefully-considered opinions.
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on
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She was arrogant and a pushy princess at school (Edgehill College, Bideford).
The irony is that there are lots of people who have been supporting Jeremy Clarkson who are now condemning Katie Hopkins for the same kind of shock tactics. You can't have it both ways, you know.
Perhaps it's something way more sinister. Have they been spotted together? No: i thought not. They are one and the same with prosthetic height adjusters to explain the difference in stature. After all, the mouth is the same ....
If KH has to go then so does JC and jolly good riddance to them both. At least there's only 2 of them unlike the trilogy of Ian Duncan Smith
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The young lady in front of me at the supermarket today bought three items:
1. A sandwich.
2. A copy of "The Sun".
3. A copy of the "Daily Mail".
Nice to know that she's picking up a wide range of carefully-considered opinions.
I'm sure of the 3, the sandwich is the least intolerant and makes the most sense. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Weren't you tempted, BT, to lean over and say to her 'you do know that sandwich was probably made by a migrant worker, don't you?'
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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I never thought of it, more's the pity.
(And this was in W**tr*se, of all places!)
As it happens, I'm preaching on Immigration this Sunday (part of a series leading up to the Elections), so Katie Hopkins comments will get a mention - not, I hasten to add, with approval!
[ 21. April 2015, 16:39: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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ExclamationMark: quote:
The irony is that there are lots of people who have been supporting Jeremy Clarkson who are now condemning Katie Hopkins for the same kind of shock tactics. You can't have it both ways, you know.
You can if you say that he was 'only joking', a defence frequently employed by bigots and gobshites everywhere. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The young lady in front of me at the supermarket today bought three items:
1. A sandwich.
2. A copy of "The Sun".
3. A copy of the "Daily Mail".
Nice to know that she's picking up a wide range of carefully-considered opinions.
You never know, she may have been asked by someone else to get one (or even both) if she was going out. It's possible, but a bit unlikely, that she might want to read two daily papers in her lunch break.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Just one question, to myself as well as others: why are we all paying this absurd person the compliment of discussing her?
Because her opinions have been published in a national newspaper. When this can be presented as a valid opinion, in a big-selling paper, something has to be said.
On principle, I would agree with ignoring her. Unfortunately, the ignoring attitude does not seem to work any more - there are always people who will agree, and so the disagreement with her needs to be expressed.
Is she worth it? Not really. I let one rip the other day, after meals of beans and sprouts, and it made a whole lot more convincing sense than Hopkins.
Posted by dyfrig (# 15) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
some people are describing them as Nazi-like, which may be a bit strong.
I'm currently listening to the audio version of Richard Evans' The Third Reich in Power; in his chapter on the education system, he quotes primary school assignmnets where children use "vermin" quite a lot about Jews and Social Democrats.
[ 21. April 2015, 20:38: Message edited by: dyfrig ]
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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Je Suis Katie Hopkins, eh?
Where are all the people advocating for absolute freedom of speech this week? Funnily enough, all this episode shows is that people of goodwill are rather happier to allow stupid things to be said about Muslims than migrants dying in the Med.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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I support her right to free speech. I just think she talks utter crap, and these sort of inflammatory comments should not be given national press coverage.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I support her right to free speech. I just think she talks utter crap, and these sort of inflammatory comments should not be given national press coverage.
Free speech is one thing, but you can't ignore the consequences of what one says, and that's what proponents of free speech are too keen to do.
Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on
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Secretly, deep down, in the most vulnerable parts of her being I think she really hates herself. Loathes what she has become.
But what way through?
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
If that's a maxim Katie Hopkins adheres to, then she can have no objection to us chasing her out of the country, forcing her to flee for her life, risk drowning, only for us to pull up a boat alongside, not to rescue but to open fire upon her .
Could be compelling television. One for Channel 5, perhaps?
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
She's said she'll leave the UK if Labour win the election.
When I heard this, I wondered for a moment whether I should vote Socialist. Just for a moment, mind.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Well, you can still vote Labour. It's still a long way from voting socialist.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I support her right to free speech. I just think she talks utter crap, and these sort of inflammatory comments should not be given national press coverage.
Free speech is one thing, but you can't ignore the consequences of what one says, and that's what proponents of free speech are too keen to do.
Free speech is a right we all have. But, like all rights, it's one that we are called to exercise responsibly.
She's free to spout the vile filth that gets published in the Sun, and the editors of the Sun are free to publish that. I'm free to call them irresponsible, stupid and uncaring for doing so.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Free speech is a right we all have. But, like all rights, it's one that we are called to exercise responsibly.
In the UK, technically, it is only something which can be done within the law. There is no absolute right to freedom of speech under English law.
quote:
She's free to spout the vile filth that gets published in the Sun, and the editors of the Sun are free to publish that. I'm free to call them irresponsible, stupid and uncaring for doing so.
She may actually not have that as an absolute right. If she has overstepped the law in various directions, English law says that she can be prosecuted.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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And, of course, others need to be careful how they respond to her on social media.
Not saying that you'd be tempted to sledge her on facebook, Alan, but this just shows that this whole issue is more complicated that being 'for' free speech or 'against' hate speech.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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What is the career trajectory for a shock-jock? ISTM that she has to keep trying to ramp up the offensiveness of what she says, in order to keep attracting attention. But for how long is that viable? Off the top of my head, she's been offensive about fat people, breast-feeding mothers, the Welsh, the name "Hannah", Scottish people, Muslims, elderly people with dementia, people who give their children "chav" names, people with depression, people with red hair, the list goes on. At some point she must run out of subjects.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Response to Tubbs.
Enough people do think them, though. Combined with the number of people who enjoy the controversial even if they do not completely agree, and it is enough to sell that ink on loo paper rubbish.
The thought process is usually, "Thank God that's happening somewhere else ... Couldn't they just pop them back on some ships and drop them back to where they came from ... I'm sure it'll work out fine ..."
I'm not entirely convinced that sending gunships and not caring completely are common responses. Hopkins is just taking the usual and maganifying it a thousand fold to create shock value / maximum publicity.
And EM, I can see a difference between this and Clarkson. Before Clarkson lost it competely, he would say controversal things every so often, but he did occassionally come out with more sensible stuff. Hopkins does a Clarkson most days. Sensible stuff ... nah!
Tubbs
[ 22. April 2015, 09:48: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on
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First Dog On the Moon provides good comment on the lack of compassion shown by Australia's PM "I suppose we must grieve for the lost but..."
It appears that the odious Hopkins isn't the only person using other people's tragedy (and it's a tragedy that the International Organisation for Migration says could claim 30,000 people's lives this year) to try in some sort of perverse way to boost their own popularity.
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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We also have this twat.But it's alright, because he was 'just joking'.
Yeah, I'm sure the parents of drowned children can take a joke like the next person and think you're fucking hilarious mate.
[hyperlink fix]
[ 22. April 2015, 10:47: Message edited by: Matt Black ]
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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As though my opinion of UKIP couldn't sink any lower ...
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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Happy to assist.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Not much assistance. UKIP seem to be perfectly capable of making themselves even more unelectable without help.
It's a real shame really.
How are we supposed to make them look bad when they do it so well themselves?
Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on
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Take a look at the graphs here. Germany has about four times as many asylum applicants as the UK, and hosts more than four times as many as the UK in the end. France still has about twice the numbers of the UK. Sweden is close to France in total numbers, and hence obviously very impressive in a "per capita" or "per GDP" sense.
How about a discussion how the UK could draw level with France at least, never mind Germany or Sweden? Otherwise all those humanitarian protestations concerning Ms Hopkins seems rather ... theoretical.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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Humza Yousaf, Scotland's Minister for Europe and International Development, has been photographed holding a sign which says "I welcome refugees"
Scotland only has 3,300 sylum seekers, (10% of the British total). We could take more. There are programmes in place to help them.
Aberdeen City Council used to have a cafe in which all the workers were unpaid asylum seekers (legislation prohibits them from being paid) Coffee was 50p a cup, and the idea was that you tipped generously! By the time their paperwork was sorted, they had already started the process of integration, with a job reference from their "voluntary" work.
Unfortunately, it turned out that this was also against current legislation, but it was good while it lasted.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Take a look at the graphs here. Germany has about four times as many asylum applicants as the UK, and hosts more than four times as many as the UK in the end. France still has about twice the numbers of the UK. Sweden is close to France in total numbers, and hence obviously very impressive in a "per capita" or "per GDP" sense.
How about a discussion how the UK could draw level with France at least, never mind Germany or Sweden? Otherwise all those humanitarian protestations concerning Ms Hopkins seems rather ... theoretical.
That's never going to fly, in the mind of these idiots you continentals are closers to the problem, so have more responsibility for it. And if you try to make us, we'll just lift the drawbridge, so naff off.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
How about a discussion how the UK could draw level with France at least, never mind Germany or Sweden? Otherwise all those humanitarian protestations concerning Ms Hopkins seems rather ... theoretical.
I don't think the average person is aware of the real numbers. So a conversation might enlighten, even though I'm skeptical that it would change anything.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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It's only three University places, but imagine if every University did this.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
It's only three University places, but imagine if every University did this.
I'd imagine there would be a massive backlash if all universities did this.
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
We also have this twat.But it's alright, because he was 'just joking'.
Yeah, I'm sure the parents of drowned children can take a joke like the next person and think you're fucking hilarious mate.
[hyperlink fix]
At my local hustings last night, the UKIP candidate was the only one who said that the Royal Navy ought to be involved in picking these migrants out of the sea. Everything else he said that evening was laughable, which may explain why it stuck in my mind, but I thought it was an interesting point.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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As far as who in the UK is capable of carrying out rescues at sea, the Navy is top of the list. Clearly, any UK involvement in search and rescue operations in the Med has to include the Navy. Most search and rescue operations around the UK coast involve the navy already, and that's in a situation where there are civilian lifeboats and coastguards.
That's a no-brainer, which is possibly how the UKIP candidate managed to understand it.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
It's only three University places, but imagine if every University did this.
I'd imagine there would be a massive backlash if all universities did this.
Why? Because people worry that their precious little Johnny would have to sit in lectures next to some foreigner?
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
As far as who in the UK is capable of carrying out rescues at sea, the Navy is top of the list. Clearly, any UK involvement in search and rescue operations in the Med has to include the Navy. Most search and rescue operations around the UK coast involve the navy already, and that's in a situation where there are civilian lifeboats and coastguards.
That's a no-brainer, which is possibly how the UKIP candidate managed to understand it.
Sorry, to be clear, what he was saying was that Britain ought to be actively involved, suggesting that we aren't at the moment and that that is wrong.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Well, I suppose like the proverbial broken clock that shows the right time twice a day, even UKIP candidates say something that's right once in a while. (Though I suspect Katie Hopkins is like the clock which the hands have fallen off).
Of course the UK should be involved. We're a Christian country (paging Steve Langton, there's a another post here for you to bang on about Constantinianism, paging Steve Langton), we're supposed to be showing compassion to those in need. Of course, that involvement should extend far beyond fishing people out of the water. It needs to include a welcome in this country - a place to stay, the chance to work and contribute to the nation that has given them refuge. It needs to include doing whatever we can to ease tensions, conflicts and persecution around the world such that the number of people seeking refuge overseas is reduced. And, it needs to address how refugees get from their home to a place of refuge, we need to work at removing the criminal gangs making profit from human misery without concern for human life from the situation.
Which needs a major policy discussion, rather than the soundbites of politicians seeking votes. Or the vicious bile of the likes of Katie Hopkins.
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Aberdeen City Council used to have a cafe in which all the workers were unpaid asylum seekers (legislation prohibits them from being paid)
Which is silly. If someone is legally present in the country (even if only on a temporary basis while his claim for asylum is decided), he should be able to work.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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It's silly, but whoever claimed government policy would always be logical? It's also quite common. When Flausa moved over she was on a six-month fiance visa, it allowed here to live in the UK but not to work or claim benefits.
I think it's part of a general fear of Schrodingers Immigrants - those who are simultaneously idle layabouts scrounging off our welfare state and stealing our jobs.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
:
I note that UK newspaper stories are suggesting EU leaders are planning to 'send back' migrants who make it across the Med.
150,000 of them. Because that'll help.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/22/most-migrants-crossing-mediterranean-will-be-sent-back-eu-leaders-to-agree
Posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis (# 3886) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I think it's part of a general fear of Schrodingers Immigrants - those who are simultaneously idle layabouts scrounging off our welfare state and stealing our jobs.
To the quotes file.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Why? Because people worry that their precious little Johnny would have to sit in lectures next to some foreigner?
Because Johnny is racking up debt sitting in lectures to be qualified for jobs that don't exist which will mean he'll probably get some filing job at just above the minimum for paying the student debt off, will be unable to save for a house deposit or pension, will crash and move back home with his parents until he is 40 or his parents die of exhaustion, whichever happens first.
Meanwhile, these layabout foreigners continually get the perks without paying anything back.
Yabber yabber yabber.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Ah, but you forget that the link was to a story about a Scottish university. Now, try again.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
:
Quite. But then North East Quine talked about 'all universities', I was assuming he/she was referring to the possibility of other universities outside of Scotland participating in this programme.
And, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe in this nonsense, but you asked why. This is why.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Yes, I know tuition fees is a nonsense all sensible people don't believe in.
On that point though, I'm not sure why an asylum seeker shouldn't be able to obtain a student loan and attend university on the same basis as anyone else. It would require the student to be allowed to work on graduation, but if they can get a good degree and on that basis a job that allows the loan to be repaid good for them.
It's the not being allowed to work, study or otherwise contribute to the society that is giving them sanctuary that's the really daft thing.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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The whole thing is a nonsense. I'm not even going to start unravelling all the layers of shite, but the fact is that a large proportion of the population seem to think that they're hard-dun-buy and that it is all the fault of those damn foreigners.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
The whole thing is a nonsense. I'm not even going to start unravelling all the layers of shite, but the fact is that a large proportion of the population seem to think that they're hard-dun-buy and that it is all the fault of those damn foreigners.
Worse still, politicians of every hue either exploit this ignorance or do nothing to expose it as such.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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Way back in the 80s, the students at my University supported a black South African student. IIRC, when we picked up our grant cheques, we donated, I think £10, so £30 per student per year. It was very well supported.
The days of grant cheques are long gone, as, happily, are the days of boycotting South African wine and singing Freeee Nelson Mandela, but IME student idealism lives on.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Student idealism lives on. As does the tension created between idealistic students and their parents - especially as more parents provide financial support for their children to go through university. "What do you mean you're going to march to demand the government give more money, more of my taxes, to someone you don't know on the other side of the world? I'm paying through the nose for you to go to university, you should be grateful and spend your time studying."
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
:
HMG has announced that HMS Bulwark is at the disposal of the UNHCR for work in the med helping with migrant boats.
Ed Miliband has contributed to the debate by saying it (the crisis with seagoing refugees) is partly down to David Cameron
There is a humanitarian crisis here and that little Gobshite decides it is the ideal vehicle for some party-political name-calling.
Posted by Callan (# 525) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
HMG has announced that HMS Bulwark is at the disposal of the UNHCR for work in the med helping with migrant boats.
Ed Miliband has contributed to the debate by saying it (the crisis with seagoing refugees) is partly down to David Cameron
There is a humanitarian crisis here and that little Gobshite decides it is the ideal vehicle for some party-political name-calling.
Oh, FFS, what do you expect politicians to do? Hello Brian, Hello Sue, on the one hand, in a very real sense... It's not as if Tory comments about Miliband have been noted for their bi-partisan and generous spirit, is it?
The thing is that in the Commons debate on Libya, when military action was voted on Miliband called it imperative to rebuild Libya after the civil war. Cameron decided that that was a bit boring and didn't bother. He also was instrumental in ending search and rescue in the Med. Outcome: lots of dead people.
Miliband, bless his fur and whiskers, takes the line that we ought not to invade or bomb other countries unless we have some clear idea how we are going to sort out the aftermath. I'm not actually sure why this is considered a daring and controversial position, but apparently it is. Presumably his detractors will also demand the resignation of the Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, when he has the temerity to suggest looking both ways before crossing the road.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
HMG has announced that HMS Bulwark is at the disposal of the UNHCR for work in the med helping with migrant boats.
Ed Miliband has contributed to the debate by saying it (the crisis with seagoing refugees) is partly down to David Cameron
There is a humanitarian crisis here and that little Gobshite decides it is the ideal vehicle for some party-political name-calling.
That's because it was. Cameron came back and touted the end of the EU's sea rescue programme for migrant / refugee ships as one of his success as money was saved. You can't really complain when it's pointed out that it's a massive failure when judged on other criteria. Like human decency.
Cameron always comes over as someone who's got the PM job because he could but isn't actually having that much fun now he's doing it. (Similar to Brown. Blair, on the other hand, always looked like he was having a whale of a time).
For Libya the Tories can cite Iraq and Afganistan for Labour. As both those wars haven't caused any local problems at all. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I'm astonished that you haven't managed to work in the lack of lunch served by the BBC into this discussion as well.
Tubbs
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
:
Given that we helped cause the problem (assisting in the toppling of a nasty government in Libya resulting in there now being no government in Libya), there is surely at least a smidgeon of moral imperative in our helping to sort out the presently rather ghastly consequences (same in Iraq IMO, but let's not go there - there's a Purg thread devoted to that already).
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on
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But if Libya had a stable government, capable of securing all its borders, I'm sure desperate Syrians, Somalis and Eritreans would find another point of departure. It is not Libyans who are in the boats.
Posted by maryjones (# 13523) on
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Reverting to earlier posts, I strongly protest. I am epileptic. I have been on anti-convulsants for 40 years and it has not turned me into a Gadarene swine.
It may seem to be thoughtful and caring to suggest that somebody is obnoxious because she is epileptic but it is an attitude that stops me and my fellow epileptics from acknowledging our condition. It is also inaccurate and infuriating!
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by maryjones:
Reverting to earlier posts, I strongly protest. I am epileptic. I have been on anti-convulsants for 40 years and it has not turned me into a Gadarene swine.
It may seem to be thoughtful and caring to suggest that somebody is obnoxious because she is epileptic but it is an attitude that stops me and my fellow epileptics from acknowledging our condition. It is also inaccurate and infuriating!
I wasn't suggesting that Hopkins was obnoxious because she was epileptic. I was suggesting that her particular mental landscape might be ascribed to side-effects of her anticonvulsants - which are well-documented and while rare, severe.
My own brush with such drugs (which I had for a bout of labyrinthitis, and will never ever take again) informs my suggestion. If your anticonvulsants work well for you, then excellent. Hopkins may not be so lucky.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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On The Last Leg this week, they had Piers Morgan on, and it was suggested that he should be shut in a room with Katie Hopkins. He was appalled at the prospect.
Which, given that he is another vile, obnoxious pile of shit, for him to find someone obnoxious says something.
I reckon they should be, and told that every word would be broadcast. Then lock the door and ignore them. While they thought they were being listened to, they would continue for months. If we just leave them, they would eventually starve to death, and probably kill each other.
Posted by Mad Cat (# 9104) on
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When we were discussing her work one day, my friend the genocide scholar told me about the pyramid of hate.
I usually ignore KH's trolling, but the dehumanising tone of her words this time was troubling. I fear that her discourse is an enabler for others. As I understand it, hate speech can (if not challenged) go on to create the social/cultural/political conditions for more active discrimination.
It properly gives me the heebie jeebies.
Posted by argona (# 14037) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Just one question, to myself as well as others: why are we all paying this absurd person the compliment of discussing her?
Because her opinions have been published in a national newspaper. When this can be presented as a valid opinion, in a big-selling paper, something has to be said.
On principle, I would agree with ignoring her. Unfortunately, the ignoring attitude does not seem to work any more - there are always people who will agree, and so the disagreement with her needs to be expressed.
Is she worth it? Not really. I let one rip the other day, after meals of beans and sprouts, and it made a whole lot more convincing sense than Hopkins.
Till now I thought, don't feed, having concluded on one hearing that she's about as worthy of attention as a used Kleenex. But this latest is more than a new level of ignorant nastiness. It is actually dangerous.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
When we were discussing her work one day, my friend the genocide scholar told me about the pyramid of hate.
I hadn't come across the pyramid of hate before, but found it helpful; if I was still teaching I would use it in the classroom. ISTM one good thing that came out of Nazism was the recognition of how terrible prejudice can be if it is allowed to go unchallenged. The fact that the UN Declaration on Human Rights was articulated only a few years after the end of WW2 has always struck me as significant.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
This is apparently what she wrote this week on the subject.
quote:
The former Celebrity Big Brother star used her column in the newspaper today to address her previous remarks, saying it had been a "cautionary tale".
She said: "I am reminded of the power of the pen. One should be brave enough to speak out - but aware of the dangers which lurk in the depths of our vocabulary.
"No one wants to see images of children drowned at sea, no matter what their journey or their destination. The next time you are thinking of clicking on a petition, don't be angry about words.
"Accept our opinions differ. Channel your outrage at the regimes causing people to flee. And be part of the solution."
I haven't found it in the original place, but this part was reproduced in many places.
She then returned to slagging off the people who need to use food banks.
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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So she doesn't even have the courage of her convictions (if any).
It's not about the migrants, but Lucy Hawking did a very good piece in the Grauniad on Hopkins' remarks about autism: here.
Posted by Beenster (# 242) on
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Katie H was in fine form nearly 2 years ago - the irony in this discussion was massive (she doesn't like children who are called after placenames but has a daughter called India - which isn't a place apparently), and it was also clear that Katie didn't give a flying whatsit about the controversy.
Part of me admires her for her blatant disregard of decency - but that's the wimpy part of me.
And then the epilepsy - well as a fellow epileptic I have a perverse degree of sympathy for her. Who knows where the problem is in the effect on the brain - whether it is the drugs or the condition. I spoke about this with my consultant not so long ago after months of feeling suicidal day after day - you know the sort of wondering how to top myself 3 times before breakfast. It was simply a reaction to an adjustment on the meds. They impact the emotions, mine are used on bipolar people and after 35 years on them, I do wonder about cognitive development and lack thereof. And difficulties with emotional connection or unstable emotions. And who knows what is me or the drugs. The ship was enormously helpful to me at one time in my life with the trouble I had with the meds.
But, it's not so long ago that I and Katie H would have been locked up and given electric shock treatment. And she should be well aware of that. She needs more / different medication - maybe a tolerant pill or a compassionate pill or a pill to make her shut her gobshite mouth.
She complained that dementia patients are bed-blockers, but with her epilepsy, she's been hospitalised numerous times as she always dislocates her arms. Another irony, dear Katie.
Who is her publicist? She's upped her ante in the last few months. Me, I'm voting labour.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
I had a horrible thought this afternoon. The comment columns beneath articles by or about KH could be used to identify people who could be recruited to a group where a lack of empathy was a positive advantage.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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I was thinking that KH sounded like America's Ann Coulter. So I did a search, and found articles on that:
UK Version Of Ann Coulter Trolls Muslims With Ramadan Cake (FrontPageMag).
From "Europe Can’t Avoid Immigration" (The American Conservative):
quote:
If Ann Coulter had neither a law degree nor some fear of being parked permanently beyond the pale of respectable discourse, she might write like Katie Hopkins. The latter, a British columnist for the Murdoch tabloid The Sun is now in heavy soup for penning a scabrous column about African migrants, which by chance happened to be published a few days before a large boat of such migrants sunk in the Mediterranean, drowning at least 700.
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I had a horrible thought this afternoon. The comment columns beneath articles by or about KH could be used to identify people who could be recruited to a group where a lack of empathy was a positive advantage.
I find it very frightening that there are such groups, and I'm not sure they should be encouraged.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I had a horrible thought this afternoon. The comment columns beneath articles by or about KH could be used to identify people who could be recruited to a group where a lack of empathy was a positive advantage.
I find it very frightening that there are such groups, and I'm not sure they should be encouraged.
I'm not too worried. Most of them will be too idle and stupid to be a danger even to themselves. The few of them who are hard-working and stupid are probably involved in some such activity already, and regard Katie Hopkins as a dilletante (or would if they had a clue what a dilletante was).
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
Apparently a schoolboy has just asked Nick Clegg if he can have Katie Hopkins killed or arrested.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
This is apparently what she wrote this week on the subject.
quote:
The former Celebrity Big Brother star used her column in the newspaper today to address her previous remarks, saying it had been a "cautionary tale".
She said: "I am reminded of the power of the pen. One should be brave enough to speak out - but aware of the dangers which lurk in the depths of our vocabulary.
"No one wants to see images of children drowned at sea, no matter what their journey or their destination. The next time you are thinking of clicking on a petition, don't be angry about words.
"Accept our opinions differ. Channel your outrage at the regimes causing people to flee. And be part of the solution."
I haven't found it in the original place, but this part was reproduced in many places.
She then returned to slagging off the people who need to use food banks.
Unfortunately, Kate love, that's not what you said and that's not what most people understood what you said ... Rough translation, my editor and I have had a bit of a talking too and been told to reign it in for a bit. Or until the fuss dies down. Which ever comes first.
Meanwhile, Richard Littlejohn has compared Labour winning the election to inviting Jimmy Saville to baby sit. Which is ... classy. Good to know the DM is so respectful of a huge propoprtion of the country.
Tubbs
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I think it's part of a general fear of Schrodingers Immigrants - those who are simultaneously idle layabouts scrounging off our welfare state and stealing our jobs.
To the quotes file.
Indeed.
I brought this up during the Top Gear Slams Mexico fracas-- I don't think it is a coincidence that the ethnicities relegated to labor class are stereotyped as lazy. The definition of "lazy" being "not currently active in doing all the shit I don't want to do."
Boy, it is galling to hear people called " lazy" when all I have to do is drive 15 minutes down the road to be standing in a crowd of those " lazy" people making $8.50 an hour on 14-hour shifts, doing shit for people who make four times their salary with half the work.
And yeah, Golden Key-- I bet Katie and Ann are penpals.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
I once (back in the 70's, shocked my upper-middle class landlady* by musing that I might quite like moving to either Iceland or New Zealand. "But they're socialists. And they don't believe in working."
* The sort of middle class that it's hard to distinguish from below from lower-upper class. Though I'm sure the upper lot know they aren't them.
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
"But they're socialists.
Not any more -unless you're somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun
Posted by JonahMan (# 12126) on
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According to the Independent, Katie Hopkins has promised to leave the UK if Labour win the election. Frankly, if that doesn't generate a massive red landslide, there is something fundamentally wrong with the people of Britain.
[ 07. May 2015, 12:26: Message edited by: JonahMan ]
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by JonahMan:
According to the Independent, Katie Hopkins has promised to leave the UK if Labour win the election. Frankly, if that doesn't generate a massive red landslide, there is something fundamentally wrong with the people of Britain.
I love the description of her as "troll for hire". On FB and Twitter, I've seen a few Labour election candidates who've used that claim on their posters to encourage voters to vote for them. "Blah, blah Labour election claims AND Hopkins will leave the UK".
I'm still undecided, but it is tempting ...!
Tubbs
[ 07. May 2015, 12:40: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
Hell, that's enough to make me consider voting for Labour!
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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<sinister zombie voice> Join ussss.... <\sinister zombie voice>
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Apparently, Nicola Sturgeon deserves the death penalty as a “short, ginger poison dwarf”. Along with everyone else who is Scottish and ginger. And, a pop at the Welsh while she was at it.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Perhaps being able to deny Katie Hopkins entry at the border could be added to arguments for Scottish secession?
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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Can we get KH for tautology?
Posted by deano (# 12063) on
:
I like her.
Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on
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...and nobody is surprised.
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I like her.
Of course you do. Sociopaths with zero empathy, concern or compassion often feel kindred spirits.
Now don't you have some serious fucking off to do?
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I like her.
No, you probably envy her ability to actually make money out of maximum trolling.
(at the expense of Christian suckers, no less)
[ 04. August 2015, 17:22: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
:
Going back to the event in Purgatory - I can envisage mostly how it will proceed - given my experience of similar occurrences.
I have no doubt that her interview with Torin Douglas will of the fairly softball, laced with middle class congeniality sort, during which Hopkins will be somewhat more moderate, occasionally cheeky, seemingly candid and drop a couple of lines that appeal to some or other base prejudice. All of which will enable a certain kind of middle class idiot to white knight whenever her name comes up in conversation.
My contempt is not for her, but for the people who enable her.
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