Ship of Fools: deliverance

Thread: deliverance Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by MLE (# 18280) on :

Am reading some mysteries in which the protagonist is an Anglican female vicar who is a newly trained Deliverance Minister. I had never heard of such a thing before & learned to my surprise that most branches of the Church have such a post. I am now very curious on the subject...thoughts?

Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :

Yes, not advertised but my Episcopal Diocese has just such a person.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I think a lot of mainline denominations have just such a person tucked away quietly in a corner. That's precisely to discourage curiosity. [Two face]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

But, who keeps the banjos?

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I think a lot of mainline denominations have just such a person tucked away quietly in a corner. That's precisely to discourage curiosity.

Our presbytery doesn't have such a position, but for awhile when I served on the candidates' committee, we had a bunch of candidates have charismatic experiences, which was outside the experience of most of our Presbytery members. They wanted to be open to these experiences but also had a lot of skepticism. Since I have some charismatic background, for awhile they were requiring all the candidates who had some kind of charismatic experience to meet with me. It sounds very controlling (and candidates' committees can certainly be so) but it was actually just sorta funny. Mr Cliffdweller (himself a Pentecostal pastor) got a kick outta the notion that the Holy Spirit was allowed to move in the Presbytery, but only with my permission.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Description of the role? Link?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

[Eek!]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I assume the OP refers to the Merrily Watkins novels by Phil Rickman.

Posted by Jack o' the Green (# 11091) on :

Many thanks for the thread and link. That's something for my Christmas list! An interesting book by a Church in Wales 'paranormal advisor' is 'Holy Ghostbuster' by Rev J. Aelwyn Roberts who worked in the diocese of Bangor.

Posted by Cenobite (# 14853) on :

Most, if not all, Church of England Dioceses have a "Diocesan Exorcist" or similar. Of those I've known, they are there primarily to be the first point of contact for clergy / lay ministers when anything of this kind is encountered. It means that clergy are not in the position where they try to deal with something by themselves, and potentially make a situation worse - because, of course, a lot of so-called 'paranormal' situations are psychological (or are explainable in other ways.) During my theological training, we had one of these Diocesan people take a session with us, who told us that, in 25 years of doing this ministry, he had only encountered two situations which he couldn't explain.

For myself, I have encountered two incidents in 15 years of ministry. One was a case where a person believed their house was haunted. The other was someone who believed they were possessed. In both cases, the relevant Diocese had someone who (with permission) I gave the contact details to, and this person then led the appropriate response. So, speaking as a minister, I am very grateful for these people who provide expertise, support and advice in unusual and difficult situations.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

I don't know if he had any official status, but there used to be a Church of Scotland minister in Aberdeen who carried out that role. He's now retired; I don't know if there is anyone else, or if he has carried on with that work after retiring from full-time ministry.

Lamb Chopped's description of "tucked away quietly in a corner" fits with my impression of the situation.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, who keeps the banjos?

Alan -- You owe me a new keyboard! [Snigger]

I just spewed my coffee all over this one!

This goes with the tee-shirt I saw that said 'Row faster - I hear banjos.'

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

I thank that all dioceses have a "Bishop's Adviser for Deliverance Ministry" and that none of them could call that person the Diocesan Exorcist. I know one who described themselves as "The Spook Man'...

The trouble is, people want the paranormal, whole bell book and candle experience and don't like to think that their "stuff" can be explained without any satanic references.

Most (all?) CofE clergy will have access to such a person or team of people from whom advice can be sought in the first instance.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:

The trouble is, people want the paranormal, whole bell book and candle experience and don't like to think that their "stuff" can be explained without any satanic references.

Do they? Surely this only applies if the 'victims' are Christians of a very pronounced Satan-believing type? If they're just 'ordinary' (British) Anglicans and/or fairly secular people with little in the way of religious exposure, why would they be expecting 'satanic references'?

Maybe it's true that in our culture people have become fascinated by these events as examples of supernatural phenomena precisely because they've often distanced themselves from organised religion.

[ 10. November 2015, 19:34: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

I've supported deliverance ministers in two dioceses - and understand that their existence is universal elsewhere.

Forget the bell, book and candle stuff - and substitute listening, counselling and focussed prayer.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

That's why I looked on the thread Alan! That's a great line georgiaboy. Damn that was a fine film. Even finer book, by America's Poet Laureate, James Dickey.

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

Even people with no allegiance to a church tradition will call on the local Vicar to "exorcise" their house from time to time...

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

In that sense exorcisms are rather like births, marriages and deaths, then.

The very idea of exorcism seem far away from the calm, rational religion normally embodied by Anglicanism, but I suppose it has to be taken seriously (even if the problems usually turn out to be psychological) since it represents one of the few opportunities the Church has to interact on a religious basis with outsiders.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
In that sense exorcisms are rather like births, marriages and deaths, then.

The very idea of exorcism seem far away from the calm, rational religion normally embodied by Anglicanism, but I suppose it has to be taken seriously (even if the problems usually turn out to be psychological) since it represents one of the few opportunities the Church has to interact on a religious basis with outsiders.

Oh come on, SvitlanaV2, if 'exorcisms' represent one of the few opportunities the Church has to interact on a religious basis with outsiders then those opportunities are few and far between ...

[Confused]

Things like Remembrance services, the births, marriages and deaths you've mentioned and other must outnumber 'exorcisms' and the like by hundreds and thousands to one.

Even if people only attend Midnight Mass in a drunken stupor once a year they're far more likely to encounter the church 'religiously' that way than they are to encounter it through exorcisms of poltergeists down the Dog and Duck.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Of course births, marriages and deaths are more numerous!!!

My point was simply that exorcisms provide one more context. The special services you mention also attract outsiders, obviously in greater numbers. (Drunken revellers at Midnight Mass might be a regional thing, though? [Smile]

)

No, let me be clear: I'm not claiming that the CofE is crawling with visitors demanding exorcisms!

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

It is more likely to be a very caring person who is rather good at helping and reassuring the vulnerable and frightened, whatever descriptive language they choose to use.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I've supported deliverance ministers in two dioceses - and understand that their existence is universal elsewhere.

Forget the bell, book and candle stuff - and substitute listening, counselling and focussed prayer.

Are you referring to ministers in your own denomination, or is this an ecumenical ministry?

Come to think of it, I've never heard of any Methodist clergy with a ministry like this, but I suppose all things are possible. In popular culture we tend to assume that such a ministry would be exercised by the CofE or the RCC, but with a decline in denominational awareness perhaps the public willingly approach any random church when they need help of this kind.

(More recently, we've heard about certain African churches which conduct deliverance ministries in their own way, but that's a totally different kettle of fish, and perhaps we'd better not go there.)

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

heheheheh. Never mind demoninational awareness (crap, yes, that's a real typo, and I'm leaving it here for your enjoyment)--

try religious awareness. Both families that approached us for exorcism help were animist--not even Christian, let alone Lutheran.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Animists? Maybe they'd tried their own clergy and had no luck. Or if they were immigrant families maybe they had no access to their own clergy.

And do animists even have specialists in this sort of thing? Some religions seem to have gaps that their adherents realise need to be filled elsewhere. For example, Muslims suffering from illness sometimes ask their Christian friends and neighbours to pray for them, because they (the Muslims) understand Jesus to be a healer. An American animist troubled by a ghost might have no theological options apart from the Lutherans....

(One could ask whether Christianity in general has such gaps, and where we could turn for them to be filled, but that would be a topic for Purgatory.)

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

I heard recently of a young Hindu who, having had it confirmed by his local temple that he appears to be possessed by a daemon, was advised by the temple that (a) they could not help, and (b) that he should therefore go to the Christian church - not Our Place in this case, but a Punjabi-speaking evangelical group in his own town...........

.......and I know of several cases near here where some form of deliverance has been asked for (and given)- whether the Diocesan Minister of Deliverance is/has been involved, I cannot say (and would not, even if I could!).

Suffice to say that this is a discreet and quiet ministry carried on perhaps more often than one might think, at least within the C of E. The RCC has a similar arrangement, I expect.

I.

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