Ship of Fools: To boldly go ... again

Thread: To boldly go ... again Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I'm not sure what to think about the Star Trek reboot on TV (or at least on streaming). I'm not enthusiastic about the last series of films (I admit I only saw the first one). I think I'll have to wait and see.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

I have high hopes. The last new Star Trek series, Enterprise, was one I really enjoyed.

The two newest movies were very good. Not my ST*, but well made and entertaining. So glad Mr. Spock was in them.

*We really can't have my ST, can we? The gang is dead, dying, and older than me. I know if the galaxy depended on me to jump, fight, escape and do ST things, we would be in deep doodoo.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

To boldly go ... again?

Make it so! [Smile]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I watched all of TOS, TNG, DS9 and about half of VOY. I saw a couple of ENT episodes, but never got into it. I missed the sense of wonder of finally going into the universe.

I saw the first of the new movies, but I've all but forgotten about it. I also admit that teenager LeRoc was rather, erm ... impressed with Lt. Uhura. I guess seeing her played by a different actress didn't fall well [Smile]

For me it depends a bit on what they're going to do with this new series. Another lone space ship discovering new planets? I'm not sure if that's going to work again.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Voyager and Enterprise were duds (the excellence of Janeway was undone by the awfulness of Neelix, Star Trek's equivalent of Jar Jar Binx). It will need to be an awful lot better than those two.

I haven't yet seen the 2nd of the new films, but the first did cut it. I was expecting to hate it, but there were enough nods to the original series and films to make it faithful to what I would interpret as the Star Trek geist.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I know I will not be popular, but I like Voyager of all the series. I think it is the fact that, more than most of the other series, they explored meaning and significance in events.

The think is, it was not always just "find a planet, be nice to the people, be nasty to the people, run and hide". I remember one, in particular, where there ended up being 2 voyagers hooked together, and only one could continue. But the one who sacrificed themselves was the one we had been following, not the other one - it made the sense of loss so much more poignant.

I never really got into TNG or ENT. I am sure they would be good if I could, but they never hooked me.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Just as a fun Heavenly question: if you were the boss, what would you want this new series to look like?

Some people on the internet have suggested a setting on a planet at the fringes of the Federation. A kind of lawlessness, and people having a look at the Federation and its ideals from the outside.

This is a bit like the first seasons of DS9 (before the Dominion entered), but I think I would like this.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Just as a fun Heavenly question: if you were the boss, what would you want this new series to look like?

Some people on the internet have suggested a setting on a planet at the fringes of the Federation. A kind of lawlessness, and people having a look at the Federation and its ideals from the outside.

Sounds like Firefly to me.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Sipech: Sounds like Firefly to me.

I don't know Firefly, you may be right.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I may or may not watch it. The only two new things I've wanted from the Star Trek Universes is a Klingon grand opera (I understand one was mounted in Holland) and a sit com set on Feregnenar.

The new movies were ok, but they did seem to have the mental mind set of teenagers. I suppose it gave the opportunity for some Spock/Spock slash fiction.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Just as a fun Heavenly question: if you were the boss, what would you want this new series to look like?

Some people on the internet have suggested a setting on a planet at the fringes of the Federation. A kind of lawlessness, and people having a look at the Federation and its ideals from the outside.
Sounds like Firefly to me.

Sounds like the Maquis who lived on the edges of Cardassian space.

Firefly is something else entirely. I like it, but it didn't have the technology nonsense and challenges that ST incorporated as commentaries on contemporary society.

The two series that did it more or less right are TNG and DS9. The TNG episode "The Inner Light" is profound. Picard lives an entire life on a planet created in his mind by a probe. The Ressikan flute tune stays with me still. I also took a lesson from Tapestry, where Picard goes back in time and avoids getting into a lethal fight, which changes everything. It is a good lesson in "contingent history". It was one influence for me to finally give up employment completely and work for myself: Star Trek is a form of modern literature and literature can change lives.

There was period of time where some of my friends and I played a game called Darmok after the episode of the same name. You have to talk in metaphor and with literary references to convey a point or emotion. e.g., "Jesus in the garden with sleepyheads"- what does that convey?

Back to the Question:
I liked Battlestar Galactica quite a bit, thought the ending and last half season of episodes sucked. So something grittier, focused on characters, with commentary on current issues would be good. Something religious, but not Bajoran please. And please stop the pizza-on-forehead alien schtick.

Note. I am one of those people who knows far too much about ST. I have a good collection of action figures. My phone ringtone is Majel Roddenberry saying "Incoming transmission" like the computer on STNG. I have a framed mock-up picture of the Enterprise D (before the STNG movies) on the wall produced by NASA and the Jet Propulsion Lab. Yes, I have all the movies, including the two recent ones, and can quote the lines that were re-used from Wrath of Khan in ST: Into Darkness.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I've generally enjoyed all the Star Trek series. Each of them (with the obvious exception of TOS) tried to do something different from the previous series. TNG tried to present a more mature Federation, one where Picard would talk first rather than fire phasers. DS9 was on the frontiers of Federation space where different values mingled in interesting ways, and by largely staying in one place allowed the writers to develop the nature of the different races much more. Voyager was shoved across the galaxy and left without the support of the Federation. Enterprise took us back to the start of human exploration of the galaxy and pre-Federation.

Of course, all of them failed at some point, but you're never going to get everything right - especially running over several seasons. But, by and large they did well IMO.

Although, I still haven't seen all of Enterprise. Flausa was never a fan, so we found other things to watch. Recent re-runs have allowed me to watch to the end of season III (except, my Tivo threw a wobbly so I got the first 5 minutes and the last few minutes of the final episode ... and never saw how they saved Earth from the Xindi. Hopefully it'll be around again soon) and odd episodes from season IV.

The two latest movies set in an alternative future were brilliant. A great way to re-imagine the older story lines. With great references to the older series and films.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
no prophet's flag is set so...: Sounds like the Maquis who lived on the edges of Cardassian space.

Exactly. And also about the whole Bajor thing. Traumatised by the Cardassian occupation, a lot of political-religious turmoil going on, not quite sure what to think about this Federation thing ...

Rodenberry's world view was a society where humanity had somehow overcome things like poverty, disease, greed ... (without really explaining how). A lot of fans like ST for this kind of optimism, and I understand that.

But what the first seasons of DS9 offered was an outside look at that. Bajorans were like: "Your ideals look all nice and shiny, but do we want to join into that?" That's interesting, and it gave rise to some good stories.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the Dominion. They were an interesting foe at times, and there were some interesting stories about them. But when they entered, some of the interesting ambiguities between Bajor and the Federation were pushed a bit into the background.

So, I guess this would be my wish for a new ST series. Not on Bajor of course, but somewhere at the edge of the Federation, having a look at it halfway from the outside.

Posted by To The Pain (# 12235) on :

I like a lot of Fred Clarke's ideas for things to be included in a new ST. Particularly decentralising the humans (although the CGI/effects budget would probably be prohibitive) and diverse casting (I'm open to the possibility of Loki too [Biased]

).

In common with Fred and most posters here, I think the best mileage is to be had from the edges of the federation and long-running story arcs rather than the very episodic nature of the early series where there was so much beam down - do stuff - beam up and off we go. Perhaps a smaller scout ship with a more limited crew would offer interesting possibilities - fewer redshirts to be used up as cannon fodder and more potential for character development. Of course, I've lived without broadcast TV for so long now that I probably wouldn't remember to go and catch it on demand, so I might not be a useful target demographic!

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Another option would be to follow an alien ship, someone with natural values quite distinct from the Federation (but still a member race). The tension between the natural inclinations of the crew and their desire to be Good Little Federationers (GLFs). Maybe Klingons or Ferengi.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Bajor wasn't quite like the Middle East, and the Cardassians weren't quite like either the Russians or Chinese. They were too ugly for our empathy.

ST:Enterprise was trying too hard to be a 17th or 18th century sailing vessel lost in the Indian Ocean. They then got hopelessly lost in the Xindi thing. Jonathon Archer was too sincere and earnest.

I thought the movie ST: Insurrection was rather good. A society living well within the environment, and resource exploiters show up. Unfortunately it went the way of hidden talents in the primitive-appearing inhabitants. But what about a running sub-hot war, necessarily involving terror attacks, something I've been rather surprised we don't see much more of in Nigeria from people whose pristine environment is run through with leaky pipelines. Could they model it on some African issues? What we really need to avoid is the 'technology will save us', rescue by Federation angelic good guys, and meet random aliens who turn out to have hidden good or bad talents which teach us a lesson.

Failing that a Star Trek sit-com with a laugh track.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
no prophet's flag is set so...: Bajor wasn't quite like the Middle East

True. DS9 aired in the nineties, just between the two Gulf Wars. I guess the parallel with the ME would have been stronger if it were after 9/11.

quote:
no prophet's flag is set so...: Failing that a Star Trek sit-com with a laugh track.

Another thing I've often thought: if they want to appeal to a teenager audience, they could do a show based on Star Trek Academy. Plenty of interesting stories to tell there, and if they wish they can have some characters fall in love with each other from time to time.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

And, "die" (repeatedly) in the Kobayashi Maru scenario.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

I'm another one who (like no prophet's flag is set so...) thinks that "The Inner Light" is profound. That and "The Offspring" are two episodes that caused me to sob uncontrollably. If the New ST creators are wise, they'll have thought provoking and heart wrenching episodes in mind.

It doesn't hurt to have some funny moments. Tribbles and Klingons are always good for a laugh, and "Sir, there is a multi-legged creature crawling on your shoulder" can cheer me up on a down day.

I'm certainly not creative enough to make suggestions to TPTB, but they can always call me after an episode airs hoping I can tell them "Yeah, that was really good."

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

Another one massively excited by the idea of a new Star Trek, but I wonder who'll get streaming rights in the UK. Currently neither Netflix nor Amazon Video (Prime free streaming) has Trek. That would be a total deal-maker for me, if somewhere had all the series (unless I find a company to convert all my DVDs into a format I could have on a little hard-drive and play on my iPad.)

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

I have wondered before if the Department of Temporal Investigations would make a reasonable series.

Posted by Alicïa (# 7668) on :

Oh this is the best news ever. [Yipee]

well ok maybe not ever... not quite up there with the good news of our salvation but it is amazing good news!

As long as they don't Enterprise it. Which wouldn't have been so bad if they chose a different captain and didn't keep destroying the timeline, but then we're used to that now.

I also loved Voyager. Just did [Smile]

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
Another one massively excited by the idea of a new Star Trek, but I wonder who'll get streaming rights in the UK. Currently neither Netflix nor Amazon Video (Prime free streaming) has Trek. That would be a total deal-maker for me, if somewhere had all the series (unless I find a company to convert all my DVDs into a format I could have on a little hard-drive and play on my iPad.)

Currently a couple of the Freeview channels, CBS Action and CBS Drama, are showing DS9 and TOS.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

I loved Star Trek as a kid, with the original series, and had all the books. However I do feel many series seem to be extended beyond the natural life of that series. Once it starts going into the next generation, it's usually had it. Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, my personal feeling is they've all had their day and should be put to rest. If there's originality and creativity, put it into something new, we could do with something original and different.

Anything on streaming, I won't be watching (bandwidth).

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:

quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
Another one massively excited by the idea of a new Star Trek, but I wonder who'll get streaming rights in the UK. Currently neither Netflix nor Amazon Video (Prime free streaming) has Trek. That would be a total deal-maker for me, if somewhere had all the series (unless I find a company to convert all my DVDs into a format I could have on a little hard-drive and play on my iPad.)
Currently a couple of the Freeview channels, CBS Action and CBS Drama, are showing DS9 and TOS.

Yeah, it's on, and I have DVDs of all the series except Enterprise, which passed me by, but I'd like to be able to binge-watch them whenever I like on my iPad, hence wishing there was a way to put my DVDs onto a hard drive and plug it in.

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

Well, it's not going to be a "Captain Worf" series , and its going to be in the JJ Abrams timeline. Boo [Frown]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
Well, it's not going to be a "Captain Worf" series , and its going to be in the JJ Abrams timeline. Boo

I would love to see a Captain Worf series.*
However, I am not disappointed that the new series will be in the new timeline. It will allow a freedom that the older series did not have. With the notable partial exception of DS9.

*Though a Captain Uhura series would be my ultimate choice...

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

For me, part of the attraction of Star Trek is its established universe, the history and the characters we know, and the introduction of new elements to that (the Borg in TNG, the Dominion in DS9). Roddenberry had a particular vision for what Star Trek was, and the Star Trek -ness of it comes from that.

I like to keep the Abrams movies apart from the canon in my head. An interesting experiment, but not part of 'our' timeline, I'd be sad to see Roddenberry's universe changed further. The films could run in parallel to the previous films, having a series in the Abrams timeline muddies it further.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
Roddenberry had a particular vision for what Star Trek was, and the Star Trek -ness of it comes from that.

I've seen a critical history of Star Trek argue that actually Star Trek only took off once Gene Roddenberry's hands loosened on the helm. (Gene Roddenberry was apparently very much a conservative military man (*), and the elements of Star Trek that are more tolerant and pacifistic are from other people in the production team.

(*) Starship Captain James T Kirk: we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill. We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot ot kill, men.
Star Trekking, across the universe...

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

It's worse than that, he's dead Jim!

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Star Wars trilogy (The 1st, real and ONLY so far) would have been an inferior product if Lucas ran the thing himself, Jaws less compelling if everything Spielberg planned worked, The Simpsons blossomed under writers other than its creator. Sometimes a child is best raised by adoptive parents, or at least an extended family.
Personally, other than the freakin' lens flares, I don't think J.J. Abrams' Trek wandered off the reservation.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Maybe they could do a StarTrek Christmas pageant?

Make it so!

(A rather delightful short youtube.)

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

Make it so!

(A rather delightful short youtube.)

"shut up Wesley". [Killing me]

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