|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Visitation of Mary
|
Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
|
Posted
When I am invited to preach but not assigned a topic or passage, I use either the event of the church calendar or Lectionary reading for that Sunday.
Next Sunday is the Visitation of Mary, so I am planning to speak on Luke 1:39-56.
The passage, of course, is dominated by the Magnificat, to which I will attempt to do justice, but there are other aspects of the story which I hadn’t noticed before.
For a start, it involves a young (possibly only in her mid-teens) pregnant woman taking a cross-country walk of about 140 km each way and staying away from her husband for three months, which seems pretty robust, intrepid and liberated for the first century.
Secondly, it can be interpreted as celebrating a deep friendship between a younger and an older woman (niece/aunt?), reminiscent of that between Naomi and Ruth.
C.S. Lewis sings the praises of friendship (philia) in his The Four Loves, but suggests not only that it is preeminently a male way of relating, but that women actually work to sabotage it.
I am no classical scholar, but I get the impression that in the ancient world, too, female friendship, unlike male friendship, was ignored or depreciated.
Surely the story is, among other things, God’s imprimatur on the value of all friendship, whether within genders or across them.
Any other thoughts on The Visitation of Mary?
I will shamelessly purloin and use anything valuable or interesting, without attribution.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
For a start, it involves a young (possibly only in her mid-teens) pregnant woman taking a cross-country walk of about 140 km each way and staying away from her husband for three months, which seems pretty robust, intrepid and liberated for the first century.
To be accurate, the text only says that Mary was betrothed to Joseph, not married. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that Mary was pregnant at the time, just that she'd been told she would become pregnant. Perhaps someone else knows of what pre-marriage practices were common then. Of course, today it would be expected for a woman about to be married to have a party with her female friends and relations. Perhaps this was a three month long hen night.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that Mary was pregnant at the time, just that she'd been told she would become pregnant.
I think the context implies that she already is though, especially when St. John the Baptist leaps in the womb of Elizabeth and she says "blessed is the fruit of thy womb".
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alyosha
Shipmate
# 18395
|
Posted
Yes, from what I can gather Mary would have had both a deep love and a great sense of right and wrong and poetic justice.
In the Magnificat she says:
"He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate;
he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty."
This is the voice of a woman who is militant in her view of society.
If you start your talk off with a story you are more likely to hook your listeners. You could even bring in some story of some modern-day sighting of Mary (whatever your view on these), because these stories are fascinating.
Posts: 162 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2015
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
For a start, it involves a young (possibly only in her mid-teens) pregnant woman taking a cross-country walk of about 140 km each way and staying away from her husband for three months, which seems pretty robust, intrepid and liberated for the first century.
To be accurate, the text only says that Mary was betrothed to Joseph, not married. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that Mary was pregnant at the time, just that she'd been told she would become pregnant. Perhaps someone else knows of what pre-marriage practices were common then. Of course, today it would be expected for a woman about to be married to have a party with her female friends and relations. Perhaps this was a three month long hen night.
I am thinking in terms of the church calendar, with the Annunciation on March 25, nine months before Christmas, making her two months pregnant on May 31.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
To be accurate, the text only says that Mary was betrothed to Joseph, not married.
Also that she "set out and went with haste" (NRSV), not that she walked the distance. I would imagine she at least rode by donkey, maybe horse, or maybe was even carried in a chair.
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
I always took that to mean more "without delay" than that she rode a fast horse. So, she didn't spend a lot of time deciding what to pack and saying farewell to her friends - presumably with a "You know I'm engaged to Joseph, and we have behaved entirely properly in all things, but when I get back you're going to be a bit surprised and very shocked ..."
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
If she believed (duh) what was said to her, it makes sense for her to go "with haste" from a practical standpoint. Presumably she was near ovulation when Gabriel showed up, which means that in two weeks or so the family laundry would be revealing her secret... I've no doubt all the women in the family would be fairly well acquainted with one another's cycles, given how closely people lived and the exigencies of laundry in the first century.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
pimple
Ship's Irruption
# 10635
|
Posted
There are good reasons to posit that the Magnificat might originally have been ascribed to Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist.
I don't think that you can make any serious assessments about the state of mind of either woman based on this marvellous hymn. It's sung by all Israel, isn't it, and by us blokes with us much joy and fervour as any (mere) woman! ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
--------------------
In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)
Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
When I am invited to preach but not assigned a topic or passage, I use either the event of the church calendar or Lectionary reading for that Sunday.
Next Sunday is the Visitation of Mary…
I don't at all want to pour cold water on your idea, or to suggest you shouldn't preach as you suggest, but next Sunday in many churches is celebrated as Trinity Sunday. In Church of England churches, that means that the Visitation is bumped on to Monday 1st June this year.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
When I am invited to preach but not assigned a topic or passage, I use either the event of the church calendar or Lectionary reading for that Sunday.
Next Sunday is the Visitation of Mary…
I don't at all want to pour cold water on your idea, or to suggest you shouldn't preach as you suggest, but next Sunday in many churches is celebrated as Trinity Sunday. In Church of England churches, that means that the Visitation is bumped on to Monday 1st June this year.
The great advantage of belonging to a evangelical and Nonconformist (as opposed to a tightly prescriptive, hierarchical and liturgical) ecclesiastical tradition is that you can eclectically borrow valuable elements from anywhere as it suits you.
For example, I used bits of the BCP's Order for the Burial of the Dead for my mother's funeral in a Brethren chapel.
Since we don't know when the Visitation occurred anyway, it is utterly irrelevant whether we remember it on May 31 or June 1.
And if I am wrong, and the sky does in fact fall in because of its irregular celebration on a Sunday and not Monday, the congregation are senior saints in a retirement home (mainly old Methodists and Baptists) so they are ready to go anytime, and won't mind.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
Yes, that's fine. In your shoes I'd take a similar approach and have done in the past before my Anglican days. It's just for me with the Visitation and Trinity Sunday falling on the same day, I personally would be wondering whether the Trinity trumped the Visitation (though it is harder to preach on IMHO).
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
|
Posted
Let us bear in mind that Mary and Elizabeth are cousins, that Elizabeth is an older woman and six months pregnant, and that Elizabeth's husband is at present mute, a handicap. It may be that this is a matter of family assisting family. Perhaps Mary's visit to Elizabeth had been planned for some time: "You're young and strong, so go help your cousin who needs assistance." Thus the trip may not have been sudden and a shock to Joseph and to Mary's family. Her return, three months pregnant, is another matter.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
