Ship of Fools: Which is more terrifying?

Thread: Which is more terrifying? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

Jesus Calms the Storm
35 That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” 36 Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. 37 A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. 38 Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”

39 He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

40 He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”

41 They were terrified and asked each other, “Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!”

So the disciples ship was about to be swamped/capsized/sunk.

You would think that would be a terrifying experience.

Yet there is no such attribution in Mark 4

Yes, it says the disciples (finally) woke Jesus and asked him "Don't you care?"

After the storm is calmed. Jesus asked. "Why are you afraid?"

The disciples response?

They were terrified.

The Greek literally says, "They were filled with a great fear."

NIV translates it as "They were terrified."

I think NSRV says "They were filled with awe."

Why--because he can even calm the storm.

So the question is

Which is more terrifying

The storm (and storms we find ourselves in)

or being in the presence of the one who can calm them>

Go

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

They were used to storms. Dealing with storms was part of their professional competence. Sure, there was risk, but as we might say today, the risk was managed. Maybe there's even some hubris in their lack of fear; they don't fear an iconic form of chaos, because they think they can handle it.

Someone with genuine power over storms? That would be someone in some way divine (God, god, or at least uncommonly godly). Definitely scary. There's no way you can handle that.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
They were used to storms. Dealing with storms was part of their professional competence. Sure, there was risk, but as we might say today, the risk was managed.

Interesting interpretation. I've read their appeal to Jesus as an appeal to do a miracle to save them, their act of waking him demonstrated terror, "25...“Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”"; and yes it's scary to actually see the supernatural power of God in action even if you asked for it.

But I'm reading your comment as their appeal to Jesus being a routine chiding of a fellow sailor "come on man, all hand's on deck, get up and grab a rope" and then being quite startled that the form of help Jesus gave was quite different.

As with so many things in the Bible, no one clear way to read it?

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But I'm reading your comment as their appeal to Jesus being a routine chiding of a fellow sailor "come on man, all hand's on deck, get up and grab a rope" and then being quite startled that the form of help Jesus gave was quite different.

And there is a middle ground between terror of being drowned and just chiding a fellow sailor to help with an emergency. Sure, they were worried, even afraid of being drowned and woke the one guy who could actually sleep through water pouring over the sides of the boat (hmmmm, do you think he floated on top of the water as he slept... [Snore]

). But there is a qualitative difference between that sort of fear, grounded in the natural as Adam. comments, and the outright terror of being confronted with the supernatural, the unknown.

It seems to me that fear of the unknown always trumps fear of the known. The latter is a rational fear, based on experience. The former is irrational. It is terror.

Posted by Waw consecutivum (# 18120) on :

The passage is several things:

1. An example of Jonah-typology as applied to Jesus (St Matthew does this several times);

2. A passage about the Church - compare the storm that batters the house built on rock in St. Matt. 7 with this, & with the Church on the rock in St Matthew 16;

3. Evidence of the Deity of Jesus, Who is here shown doing what God does in Psalm 65:

5 By awesome deeds You answer us in righteousness, O God of our salvation,
You who are the trust of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest sea;

## - applies to the universality of the Church which results from the Great Commission at the end of St. Matthew 28.

6 Who establishes the mountains by His strength,
Being girded with might;

7 Who stills the roaring of the seas, The roaring of their waves,
And the tumult of the peoples.

## - is echoed in this passage. The "tumult of the peoples" recalls how "the nations so furiously rage together" in Psalm 2 "against the LORD and His Christ"; a Psalm that in Acts 4 is applied to the opposition to Jesus. St Matthew is hinting that Jesus is the Davidic King - the Evangelist has a lot to say about kings, reigns & kingship.

8 They who dwell in the ends of the earth stand in awe of Your signs;
You make the dawn and the sunset shout for joy.

## - which is applicable to the signs of the presence of the Kingdom that St Matthew records of Jesus. "The ends of the earth" echoes Psalm 72.8: "May he rule from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth", about the everlasting & universal kingdom of the Son of David - and a ton of other passages:

http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=The+ends+of+the+earth

Not forgetting St Matthew 12.42: "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here."

That directly follows a passage about Jesus as Jonah.

4. More generally, the passage in St.Matthew 8 shows the disciples asking Who Jesus is - and that question is central to the Gospels. Everyone asks it. And one function of the passage is to challenge the hearers and readers of the Gospel: "Who do [*we*] say the Son of Man is ?". The Gospel is not just info - it is a question that requires an answer.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

While Matthew may have tied the story of Jesus quieting the storm to Jonah, I do not see this in Mark. I think the reaction of the disciples to this person who can quiet the storms is more important for Mark.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
But I'm reading your comment as their appeal to Jesus being a routine chiding of a fellow sailor "come on man, all hand's on deck, get up and grab a rope" and then being quite startled that the form of help Jesus gave was quite different.
And there is a middle ground between terror of being drowned and just chiding a fellow sailor to help with an emergency. Sure, they were worried, even afraid of being drowned and woke the one guy who could actually sleep through water pouring over the sides of the boat (hmmmm, do you think he floated on top of the water as he slept... ). But there is a qualitative difference between that sort of fear, grounded in the natural as Adam. comments, and the outright terror of being confronted with the supernatural, the unknown.

It seems to me that fear of the unknown always trumps fear of the known. The latter is a rational fear, based on experience. The former is irrational. It is terror.

I agree. Heck, the fact that they took the time in the middle of a stom to bark at Jesus for his attitude inndicates they were having some sort of emotional response.

Also, when you are trying to save your ass, tending to your emotions becomes secondary to engaging your survival instincts in the service of saving said ass. When everything is calm, you can afford to feel all those feely feelings.

Several horrific on the job experiences taught me that the sight of blood or danger kicks me into action, but ten minutes afterward, I collapse into shudders. The disciples freaked out at what Jesus did because they had plenty of time to freak out.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

Doing some more looking at the story.

Why did they get into the boat>

To get to the other side.

All to often we might hear stories of how Jesus is r there to quiet your personal storms.

But the boat is often symbol for the church.

Seems like Jesus is constantly challenging the disciples (his church) to go beyond their comfort zone.

Whenever there is challenge to go beyond our comfort zone we find ourselves in the midde of a storm.

People don't like challenges. They often do not want to go to the other side.

Yet Jesus wonders about their lack of faith. He rebukes the storm.

Who is this man?

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