Ship of Fools: TICTH

Thread: TICTH Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Right, probably a waste of time, but I am protesting the closure of the TICTH thread.
Not that I fail to understand the hostly irritation, I think I do. As much as a mere participant can, anyway.
But I think it a valuable thread. It serves a real purpose that helps people despite the abusers of it.
And, in the case of this particular iteration, it was killed a bit more hastily than necessary.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

Yeah. Ariston does seem a bit up him/her self by being over anxious to close it down

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

TICTH was traditionally the prerogative of Hellhosts.

In recent times, several people have taken it upon themselves to create new TICTH threads. In one case, this was almost immediately after the Hellhosts (it may well have been me) had pointed out that traditionally it was the prerogative of the Hellhosts to create one.

I think the mindset has perhaps changed because there was one particular edition that had a very, very long life indeed - perhaps over a year. This seems to have led people to treat TICTH as a standard feature of Hell. But before that it wasn't. It was a far more occasional thing.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
TICTH was traditionally the prerogative of Hellhosts.

In recent times, several people have taken it upon themselves to create new TICTH threads. In one case, this was almost immediately after the Hellhosts (it may well have been me) had pointed out that traditionally it was the prerogative of the Hellhosts to create one.

I think the mindset has perhaps changed because there was one particular edition that had a very, very long life indeed - perhaps over a year. This seems to have led people to treat TICTH as a standard feature of Hell. But before that it wasn't. It was a far more occasional thing.

This explains quite a lot. For much of my early time here, I did not venture to Hell often and was unaware of that dynamic. It does put into context the vexation.
Still, I do think it a valuable thread, no less for that.

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Yeah. Ariston does seem a bit up him/her self by being over anxious to close it down

Him. But whilst I think the closure was premature, even given orfeo's explanation, I would not characterise this as Ariston being up himself.
It is like a small wound on your outer arm. It is not that the wound is particularly painful, it is that it is constantly brushed by passers-by.
I understand the frustration. If you'll reference the thread, you'll notice that the 5th post after the OP is my very real irritation at the tendency towards tangents on it. And I am not required to read it.

[ 09. May 2015, 17:26: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

I do understand why it was closed. But oh how I miss it.....

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And, in the case of this particular iteration, it was killed a bit more hastily than necessary.

It did come across as rather petulant.

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

In my days of absolute power in Hell, the Consignment thread was at my whim. And I got easily irritated when it became an All Saints support thread, offering advice to all and sundry.

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

I think I recall a time also when the TICTH thread didn't exist and many people turned hell into a news ticker of all my favourite news stories I love to hate that might have made good discussions in Purg and Purg became a veritable desert. I'll confess I don't really use it myself, but in this respect perhaps it served a purpose.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

David started the first TICTH thread with strict rules: one consignment per person per day, and no comments on others' posts at all. As a cantankerous purist, when it suits me to be one, I applaud the thread closure. Perhaps in future Hellhosts will be believed the first time they state the terms of the thread's survival.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Perhaps in future Hellhosts will be believed the first time they state the terms of the thread's survival.

Which I did, right here.

The take-home message being:

quote:
And when I say conditions, I mean "this thread will be sent to the gulag faster than you can say 'show trial' if you screw up."

You may now start pointing fingers at those who screwed up.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

In my experience there's nothing that puts the survival of a TICTH thread in danger more than it becoming "chatty" and I don't recall Hosts closing TICTH on a 'first-strike' basis, although I stand to be corrected.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
and I don't recall Hosts closing TICTH on a 'first-strike' basis, although I stand to be corrected.

In my recollection, there have been warnings each time.

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Perhaps in future Hellhosts will be believed the first time they state the terms of the thread's survival.

I sincerely doubt this. The TICTH threads have been shorter-lived with each iteration and many of the offenders could hardly be called n00bs.

ISTM, the most effective warning would be one where the punishment is directed at the abuser, not the thread. Especially as the abusers I most remember contribute less to the thread's purpose and more to its detriment.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

I quite see why the thread was closed. Nevertheless, and TICTH is obviously not the place for them, Tangential comments are not always and simply a piece of self indulgence on the part of the poster.

Is there no place where the rant and the tangents may be housed? (Apart from Oblivion)

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
I quite see why the thread was closed. Nevertheless, and TICTH is obviously not the place for them, Tangential comments are not always and simply a piece of self indulgence on the part of the poster.

Is there no place where the rant and the tangents may be housed? (Apart from Oblivion)

If it's worth continuing discussion, open a new thread. Thing Hell's gotten boring? Go on a real rant, save me from having to read about proportional voting in foreign countries and wanting to whack folks over the head with Arrow's impossibility theorem.

lB, you're right, in the past, we Hellhosts didn't keep our promises to squelch the thread the minute we got tangents. Heck, this time, there were a few places where it seems that we looked the other way for a bit...but, in the end, decided that doing what we said we'd do right from the get-go might be a new, novel, and useful idea. Call it sticking to our word for a change.

No idea when it'll be back. It might not. We might have Rules. We might not. We might be less grumpy. We...no, that one, most certainly not.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:

lB, you're right, in the past, we Hellhosts didn't keep our promises to squelch the thread the minute we got tangents. Heck, this time, there were a few places where it seems that we looked the other way for a bit...but, in the end, decided that doing what we said we'd do right from the get-go might be a new, novel, and useful idea. Call it sticking to our word for a change.

I don't read every post on that thread and thought that there were fewer tangents than you imply. But, this time at least, rather speak out of ignorance I went back and counted. Holy shit, better than 25% tangent. However, I would like to point out that this was abetted by a host, a former host and an admin.
Not complaining about any of that, your pitch, your rules and your choice about how to apply them.

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:

No idea when it'll be back. It might not. We might have Rules. We might not. We might be less grumpy. We...no, that one, most certainly not.

No one has addressed the usefulness of the thread. Which is the reason I opened this thread.

[ 10. May 2015, 05:59: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
No one has addressed the usefulness of the thread. Which is the reason I opened this thread.

It isn't intended primarily to be useful or helpful, it's not a support thread. If you find you need to vent on a regular/frequent basis you need to address that in real life. Nobody should be dependent on TICTH to let off steam.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
No one has addressed the usefulness of the thread. Which is the reason I opened this thread.
It isn't intended primarily to be useful or helpful, it's not a support thread. If you find you need to vent on a regular/frequent basis you need to address that in real life. Nobody should be dependent on TICTH to let off steam.

Then simply close Hell completely. The only difference between TICTH and many other Hell threads is length of the complaint.
And, for the record, this thread is not about me. I post very infrequently to TICTH.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

My understanding is that Hell was set up mainly to contain disputes that would otherwise derail threads on other boards. Which is a different function from standalone gripes about personal issues.

[ 10. May 2015, 06:40: Message edited by: Ariel ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Not exclusively.
From the signpost above the door.

quote:
Got a complaint, a rant or a personal argument to settle?

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

I get the bit about the origin of the TICTH concept, but I still think the hosts are being short-sighted, apart from anything else. Why not have all the petty ranticules tidied up in a single place, even if some of them do set off eddies? It reduces the number of small, pathetic threads you have to have around, which start weakl and tail off after a few posts. The TICTH method has to be the tidiest method of dealing with the general magnificent petty crapness of every day life, surely?

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

This.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

What?

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

ThunderBunk's post, with which I agree.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

These are discussion boards. A one line whinge about why you're having a crap day isn't discussion.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

This is a community. Anyhow, the wardens started TICTH, so you cannot blame the inmates for becoming accostumed

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
This is a community.

Yep. That's why we have all Saints [Biased]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

More than half of the threads on the front page of Hell are not substantively different to TICTH. TICTH is not a support thread as much as it is a thread of mini-rants. Rants are the direct purview of Hell. Says so above the door.
None of this means you have to allow TICTH, but it is not an aberration in any meaningful way.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
More than half of the threads on the front page of Hell are not substantively different to TICTH.

Therefore, what was posted in TICTH (especially those mini-rants that generated discussion) could form the basis of dedicated threads in their own right.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Alright, I'll continue this episode of the Twilight Zone.
Most, if not all, of the posts in TICTH which generated comments did so not because of their worth as a longer thread, but because a few people could not help themselves commenting. Including if I may reiterate, a host, a former host who has advocated harsh treatment of TICTH and an Admin.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
More than half of the threads on the front page of Hell are not substantively different to TICTH.
Therefore, what was posted in TICTH (especially those mini-rants that generated discussion) could form the basis of dedicated threads in their own right.

Okay. I honestly don't understand what's with this adamant aversion to one thread, similar to "Random Tangents Ride Again", "Sundry liturgical questions", and "The Tattler" but aimed at the interests of people whose lives are in a variety of ways hellish. I don't. Hell is the Ship's home for rants. It says so in the heading. The Ship is a discussion board, true, but a person can't determine what rant will be of common interest until it is posted. Do the hosts want us to post as many new Hell threads as there are rants normally posted on the TICTH thread per week?

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I get the bit about the origin of the TICTH concept, but I still think the hosts are being short-sighted, apart from anything else. Why not have all the petty ranticules tidied up in a single place, even if some of them do set off eddies? It reduces the number of small, pathetic threads you have to have around, which start weakl and tail off after a few posts. The TICTH method has to be the tidiest method of dealing with the general magnificent petty crapness of every day life, surely?

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Do the hosts want us to post as many new Hell threads as there are rants normally posted on the TICTH thread per week?

These are salient comments.

It may well be a case of "careful what you wish for", but there is a bit of an inclination - on my part at least - to say that yes, this kind of IS what we want. In that if something motivates you enough to rant, then go ahead and start a thread on it.

My suspicion, however, is that it wouldn't actually be a literal case of "everything that was posted on TICTH" then getting a thread. I suspect some things only make it into a post because people semi-consciously think that TICTH has provided a home for it. Without TICTH, they might not think it's worth expressing to the world.

Or they'd go and inflict it on Facebook instead.

Besides, we'll probably all get a bit of mileage out of saying how small and pathetic a thread is if it is small and pathetic. [Two face]

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

Today I Consign To the Styx: Hellhosts being so meeeeeeean.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Without TICTH, they might not think it's worth expressing to the world.

Or just let it be another irritating thing remaining in their heads. I

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

Or they'd go and inflict it on Facebook instead.

Which defeats the idea of TICTH. A quick vent and done. Sometimes that seems to help people. Facebook is what happens in the tangents writ large and long.

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Today I Consign To the Styx: Hellhosts being so meeeeeeean.

It is so very terrible. Why you gotta be so mean?

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Which defeats the idea of TICTH. A quick vent and done. Sometimes that seems to help people. Facebook is what happens in the tangents writ large and long.

What happens on Facebook is you post your short rant, some of your friends click "Like". Then someone shares a photograph of a cat, and everyone goes to purr over that.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

Whereas what happens on SoF is that you post your short rant, somebody has the temerity to respond, and then someone comes along waving an enormous willy and pisses on the Close Topic button to show you who's really in charge around here.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Sigh.

The rules we set out for TICTH are very clear. If you want to discuss something, post it in Purg. If you want to rant about something, post it in Hell (with all the warnings about doing that ringing in your ears...). If you want to moan about something and receive tea and sympathy, post it in AS.

If you're capable of opening a browser, connecting to the internet, navigating to SoF, mashing the keyboard and successfully hitting the 'post' button, you should be capable of abiding by clear instructions set out for that particular thread.

Unless someone can show that a 'special little snowflake exemption' applies, those are your choices.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

No, on the Ship you have two choices.

You can start a thread with your little whinge. It may get no replies, it may launch into an unexpected multipage thread of people suddenly deciding that they hate whatever that is as well. It'll probably result in something in between. But, you post such a thread because you want someone to reply.

Or, if there is a TICTH thread, you post there not wanting any sort of reply, not even the equivalent of "like" (if we had one that is).

This isn't really a discussion about people posting little rants. It's about the disrespect shown by people who see something posted on a "do not respond" thread, which anyone with a few brain cells will therefore realise was posted by someone who didn't want any response, and then responding.

[x-post with Doc Tor]

[ 11. May 2015, 09:23: Message edited by: Alan Cresswell ]

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

If you feel that strongly about ritualistic adherence to arbitrary rule-sets (and some hosts seem to have more impassioned views on the issue than others), why do you not simply impose (without comment) a (say) 48 hour ban on anyone who responds to a post on a TICTH thread, and delete (without comment) the offending response? If the visceral urge to impose or maintain order is that strong, this would require no more effort than the oft-mentioned obligation to read every post.

Of course, you could always investigate the introduction of a "Like" button - can't believe nobody's suggested that.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Or you could simply accept the fact that hosts have no obligation to be on 24/7, and they should be able to expect a bunch of reasonably literate grown-ups to follow a simple set of rules in their absence.

We live in hope.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
If you feel that strongly about ritualistic adherence to arbitrary rule-sets (and some hosts seem to have more impassioned views on the issue than others), why do you not simply impose (without comment) a (say) 48 hour ban on anyone who responds to a post on a TICTH thread, and delete (without comment) the offending response? If the visceral urge to impose or maintain order is that strong, this would require no more effort than the oft-mentioned obligation to read every post.

Oh come on. I find this response juvenile.

It is juvenile to declare that because we have rules, therefore the rule-setters want draconian rules. This is on a level with a teenager declaring "well, if you want me home by midnight, why don't you just lock me in my room?"

The rest of your life is full of rules as well, you know, many of which have an arbitrary component. Do you accuse every rule-maker and rule-implementer in your life of "dick-waving"? Your boss? Traffic cops? The meter reader?

[ 11. May 2015, 10:45: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

ADDENDUM: As to the proposition that we delete posts 'without comment' - I have pointed out a number of times in a slightly different context that doing so would be highly likely to expose us to a long stream of Styx threads, all being not-so-elegant variations of "why was my post deleted"?

Hosts don't perform any of their actions 'without comment' for precisely this reason. Shipmates in fact have a right to know what we're doing, and why, and if we tried to take actions on the quiet we would be asked to explain what we were up to far more often than we are now.

It's simply not true that Hosts can just delete a post with one button press and then forget about it. Nor do I think it should become true.

And the proposition that BANS should be imposed without comment takes things to a whole other level. It is also worth pointing out that banning is an Admin function, not a Host one.

[ 11. May 2015, 10:53: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:

Of course, you could always investigate the introduction of a "Like" button - can't believe nobody's suggested that.

It has been suggested more than once. We're not doing it because it would stifle debate and discussion.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Of course, you could always investigate the introduction of a "Like" button - can't believe nobody's suggested that.

You clearly don't go on Facebook much. Someone only has to post something to get a bunch of "thumbs ups" and there it ends. This is supposed to be a discussion board. If this thread was on Facebook you'd have a few people clicking the Like button and virtually no comments other than the odd one-liner and another shower of "Likes". The Like button is, IMO, responsible for killing off conversations and dialogue before they start. I'd like to see it removed from FB.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Or, put simply, we don't like like.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Or, put simply, we don't like like.

This.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
It has been suggested more than once. We're not doing it because it would stifle debate and discussion.

Please accept my apologies that it wasn't abundantly clear from the embedded link that I was joking.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Oh come on. I find this response juvenile.

It is juvenile to declare that because we have rules, therefore the rule-setters want draconian rules.

Interestingly, juvenile is the word I chose to substitute with petulant in my first post on this thread prior to submitting. However, you aren't (in the main) dealing with teenagers here, and the cyclical nature of this discussion, inevitably terminated by "Like it or lump it", at least gives rise to an airing of ptb thinking on this issue. "The rest of your life is full of rules.." you say, but when the rules were made long ago, in different times, it's not unknown for them to be changed.

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
You clearly don't go on Facebook much.

On the contrary. I am very active on Facebook. Since I retired it has proved to be an excellent way of keeping in contact with ex-colleagues, as well as friends and family. Facebook's greatest achievement, in my view, is in contributing to the demise of the ineffably twee Christmas round-robin letter.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
ADDENDUM: As to the proposition that we delete posts 'without comment' etc.

Fair points, which I understand.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Or, put simply, we don't like like.
This.

Assuming you are speaking as a shipmate, your "we" is misplaced. You don't speak for me.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
the cyclical nature of this discussion

What's cyclical about it? As far as I'm aware, this is the first time that TICTH has been discussed.

The discussion started off with an explanation of TICTH's origins. There's been some conversation about its function/value. I've found some of that discussion useful.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

We've had it before and we've had this stuff about the Like button before too. The only real purpose the Like button serves is to make the poster of the comment feel validated. It otherwise comes close to being a rating for posts/members, which is something else SoF doesn't do.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
"The rest of your life is full of rules.." you say, but when the rules were made long ago, in different times, it's not unknown for them to be changed.

So what's different now compared to when TICTH was invented by a Host?

I'm not against changing rules, but it can't just be change for change's sake.

A couple of people have made observations that are relevant to suggesting that the ongoing presence of TICTH has benefits. With all respect, you haven't - you have just made your standard observations, which seem to be to the effect that you simply don't like rules of any kind and come across as aggrieved any time that Hostly action occurs.

Are the rules around TICTH arbitrary? Sure. But the concept was invented by a Host - the very existence of TICTH is arbitrary. As are many things about the Ship.

But that doesn't mean any of it is irrational, or unjustifiable, or without merit.

[ 11. May 2015, 12:35: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

I thought TICTH had been discussed several times before, generally as a result of the thread being closed. Perhaps I imagined it. I also have found the discussion useful - I don't recall mention of the origin before, for instance. Nevertheless, the staunch defence of the status quo serves as a reminder that change is not undertaken lightly, which is probably prudent in a decentralized hierarchical environment.

(cross-posted with orfeo)

[ 11. May 2015, 12:51: Message edited by: passer ]

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

A couple of people have made observations that are relevant to suggesting that the ongoing presence of TICTH has benefits. With all respect, you haven't - you have just made your standard observations, which seem to be to the effect that you simply don't like rules of any kind and come across as aggrieved any time that Hostly action occurs.

I think that your use of the words "any time" is a tad harsh. That I occasionally raise queries or make observations ignores that I mostly don't, and that I trot along like your average happy punter. I've always been supportive of the way this place is run, but that doesn't mean that I post obsequious comments to the effect that the ptb are wonderful human beings who are worthy of beatification. And it doesn't mean that I have a closed-mind approach to the way things are run.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Regarding the "take it to Facebook" comments, it is not the same.
Facebook isn't here.
Where people pitch a bitch is sometimes important to them.
Facebook has a higher profile.
Not everyone uses Facebook. [Eek!]

Facebook can generate unwanted comment, but there is no one to moderate unless it is extreme.

That this site's moderators created TICTH is an indication that I am not alone in believing in its usefulness. And it is very easy to discern, what that use is. So it is a tad vexing to hear the just go somewhere else comments.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
That this site's moderators created TICTH is an indication that I am not alone in believing in its usefulness. And it is very easy to discern, what that use is. So it is a tad vexing to hear the just go somewhere else comments.

Is it very easy to discern what that use is?

And is that use best met by making TICTH a constant feature?

My hot water system has a pressure release valve. The instructions on the side of tank tell me that I should use the valve at least once every 6 months.

It doesn't follow that if I use the valve every morning that I'm doing something that is beneficial for my hot water system.

And I use that analogy because I do think TICTH functions like a pressure release valve. Heck, I think the whole of Hell functions as a kind of pressure release.

But I'm not terribly convinced that having a constant drip of little TICTH posts is, in overall terms, the best method of pressure release. Opinions may differ on this, but it seems to me that TICTH running all the time is actually contributing to Hell being rather boring. No-one has much to say. And even if a reduction in Hell calls is a good sign about Ship harmony, we've don't seem to have much ranting at the world is general. Are you all having significantly happier lives now? Think we've cleared all the morons out of public life?

It was suggested earlier in the thread that TICTH effectively helped keep Hell tidy. Do we really want it to be tidy? It's a question worth considering. Maybe I've just got to the stage where reading Hell every day has become tedious and I need a change, but I went away for a month (checked in once or twice while I was in Europe) and came back to a slightly extended "Difficult Relatives" thread, the continuing droning of the one about Clarkson/Top Gear, and precious little else.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

Indeed. TICTH was a fly paper thread in an era of continuous buzzing activity on the Ship. It was usually re-activated whenever we were down a Hellhost in order to reduce the number of threads to review.

Times have changed. My opinion of TICTH is mostly that it is a masturbatory waste of effort, and that we would all benefit from more people willing to actually discuss what bothers them.

Perhaps it is time to retire TICTH permanently, and think of a new experiment that better-serves our current needs. I have an idea, but ironically I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to pull it off. Does anyone else have ideas?

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
That this site's moderators created TICTH is an indication that I am not alone in believing in its usefulness. And it is very easy to discern, what that use is. So it is a tad vexing to hear the just go somewhere else comments.

David wasn't acting as a host when he started the original TICTH thread, and I doubt very much that his intention was to create a feature that would live forever in Hell. It was just a good idea for a thread.

Honestly, you should all stop whining about the Hellhosts and place blame where it belongs -- on the posters who failed to observe the simple directive to refrain from commenting on others' posts on that thread. If you're really cheesed off about the closure of TICTH, call those people to Hell.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Eutychus and I were floating the idea of an official TICTH facebook page backstage, but since RooK is calling for ideas, I will float it here. ( I also offered to mod it.)

Euty also thought a live Twitter feed might work...and draw traffic to the board.
.

[ 11. May 2015, 16:14: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

I like the TICTH thread. I've only used it once or twice, but found it very therapeutic when I did. I always check it out when I visit the ship. It is extremely boring though when people reply and continue conversations, and so in this case I see it as a fair call to close it, and to be strict with the ruling. Perhaps it will be better respected when it returns. Please let it return.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Is it very easy to discern what that use is?

Yes. Easy enough that nearly every Hellhost manages to post it within a short time of a new TICTH thread.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

And is that use best met by making TICTH a constant feature?

For the users yes. For those who must police it? Apparently not.
I've mentioned I appreciate the tedium involved in being required to read every post. And, though I am not generally one to participate in the occasional "Hoorah, Hoorah, the Hosts" threads, I do very much appreciate the voluntary effort you lot put in.
So, does the boredom you must endure outweigh the perceived benefit? This is the basic equation. Not being one who must endure the boring bits, I might see the balance differently.

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
My opinion of TICTH is mostly that it is a masturbatory waste of effort, and that we would all benefit from more people willing to actually discuss what bothers them.

I disagree. Well obviously, but I see the value of a minor vent vs. a larger rant.

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:

Perhaps it is time to retire TICTH permanently, and think of a new experiment that better-serves our current needs. I have an idea, but ironically I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to pull it off. Does anyone else have ideas?

I would love to see something new in Hell. Share, please.

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

Honestly, you should all stop whining about the Hellhosts and place blame where it belongs -- on the posters who failed to observe the simple directive to refrain from commenting on others' posts on that thread. If you're really cheesed off about the closure of TICTH, call those people to Hell.

I have many, many faults. Whinging isn't one of them.
I considered a Hell thread. But, for at least one of the abusers it felt like I would be booting a puppy down the stairs for peeing on the rug.

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You may now start pointing fingers at those who screwed up.

Apologies to one and all. I badly misjudged the mood of the moment. I promise never to knowingly ignore the rules again.
[Waterworks]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
I promise never to knowingly ignore the rules again.

Where's the unrest in that?

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

DT, nothing pleases you. Nevertheless, I apologise for my share of the tangents. Can't promise to amend completely, but I will try [Waterworks]

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

Perhaps what's needed is a variation of the existing rule about not responding. Instead, for those who simply cannot resist the urge to respond to a particular post, the rule can be "Respond to posts by PM only."

This would serve two purposes: one, it lets people who feel they MUST respond to do so without clustering up the TICTH thread, and two, any TICTH poster who get a dozen responses to his/her post knows the post might have potential as a thread in its own right, and take the issue to Purg, Hell, or All Saints as appropriate to the topic.

Of course, that's all possible now; but sometimes we lack either imagination or energy to do a work-around.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

One thought about the suggestion to start a TICTH thread on Facebook: for those of us who have signed work agreements* restricting on our social media use, that's moving even more of the Ship onto Facebook. And I'm already excluded from what is happening there now, which to be honest is making the Ship feel as if most of what is happening is elsewhere.

Isn't Facebook a lot of why the Ship is quieter now - that social chit chat has moved there, instead of here?

* I had to sign an agreement about my use of social media for work, which was pretty restrictive. I don't do Facebook as I work with teenagers and I am not allowed to friend them, be found by them, be followed by them, which is actually much more restrictive than it sounds as I have an unusual real name, which makes finding me easy. Also I am not allowed to do anything that could cause my employer embarrassment on social media. I doubt very much that I am the only one with a work agreement like this.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I disagree. Well obviously, but I see the value of a minor vent vs. a larger rant.

The value of a minor vent versus a larger rant is pretty obvious: It's exactly why Facebook and Twitter are massively successful.

What we have here, however, is a discussion board. Instead of a legacy-ruled thread for throwaway rants, perhaps we should try to enable those smaller rants to help generate discussion.

quote:
I would love to see something new in Hell. Share, please.

Back before I was a Hellhost¹, Wood invited me to run "RooK teaches Snark-Fu Masterclass" in Hell. Perhaps the term 'invite' is a bit too genteel - he started it as swipe at my annoying enthusiasm for insults. It was an amusing diversion for a while, and demonstrated how creative some of the Denizens could be. I was thinking of resurrecting something like this, except with rotating guest "instructors". Denizens could post their random annoyances, which could be critiqued or have suggested improvements. Essentially serving the same fundamental outlet as TICTH, except with a prod to making it a bit more Hellish than just a list.

A somewhat more edgy idea² would be to propose "Troll Or Not", to get venting that was either mostly true or mostly not and generating discussion about which category it actually belonged. Again, more discussion and creativity with the same basic fuel.

¹ Take a wild guess about how long ago that was.

² All ideas actually at the capricious whim of the Hellhosts. Lobby them, if you dare.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Ooh, the master class would be fun!

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Facebook IMO is just too public. You have to deliberately get onto the SoF site, but anyone who is already on FB can surf and find us. Is that paranoid of me?

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
All ideas actually at the capricious whim of the Hellhosts. Lobby them, if you dare.

This remark has reminded me of something I thought earlier, but didn't post.

Really, those Shipmates who have chosen to start a thread labelled "TICTH" have positively invited the Hellhosts to treat it as something that the Hellhosts control. You've been giving it that label.

If you don't want traditional TICTH rules to apply to a thread, don't bloody call it TICTH. Give it some other exciting, inventive name.

You will of course run the risk of the Hellhosts going [Paranoid]

, but unless your new creation is so pathetic it clearly doesn't deserve to live / it's so unHellish we can boot it to the Circus in 5 seconds flat, you'll have gained time while we figure out WTF to do about your innovation.

Whereas if you label it as TICTH, we know what to do with a TICTH and will apply the same rules to it as the TICTH threads that we create. The first rule being that it lives or dies on our whim.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

It was a gift. A Christmas gift.
You ungrateful sod. [Big Grin]

Socks for you then this year.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
One thought about the suggestion to start a TICTH thread on Facebook: for those of us who have signed work agreements* restricting on our social media use, that's moving even more of the Ship onto Facebook. And I'm already excluded from what is happening there now, which to be honest is making the Ship feel as if most of what is happening is elsewhere.

Isn't Facebook a lot of why the Ship is quieter now - that social chit chat has moved there, instead of here?

There's not much action on the Ship Facebook group either. The most active thread is the one where people say what their ship name is and even that one has been dormant for a while.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
It was a gift. A Christmas gift.
You ungrateful sod.

Socks for you then this year.

Socks have a great deal of usefulness!

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
All ideas actually at the capricious whim of the Hellhosts. Lobby them, if you dare.
This remark has reminded me of something I thought earlier, but didn't post.

Really, those Shipmates who have chosen to start a thread labelled "TICTH" have positively invited the Hellhosts to treat it as something that the Hellhosts control. You've been giving it that label.

If you don't want traditional TICTH rules to apply to a thread, don't bloody call it TICTH. Give it some other exciting, inventive name.

You will of course run the risk of the Hellhosts going , but unless your new creation is so pathetic it clearly doesn't deserve to live / it's so unHellish we can boot it to the Circus in 5 seconds flat, you'll have gained time while we figure out WTF to do about your innovation.

Whereas if you label it as TICTH, we know what to do with a TICTH and will apply the same rules to it as the TICTH threads that we create. The first rule being that it lives or dies on our whim.

This is interesting. A couple of the threads that made Limbo could be considered TICTH threads with a narrow focus " My job sucks like a Dyson" or " Cats!" The " Difficult Relatives" thread doesn't look like it is dying down any time soon. So, maybe the challenge is to turn your one-- off into something with universal appeal.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

Or, picking up on that point, many Limboed Hellthreads could have easily been TICTH one-offs.

"TICTH spiritually shallow and overly sincere 'spiritual growth' groups."

"TICTH cat owners. Not everyone loves your bird-killing, garden-shitting fleabag. And no, putting the little bastard in the other room won't make my allergies magically go away."

"TICTH Christmas."

All of these could have been lame, short, forgettable TICTH posts. Instead, they were among the best of the very best. Not to belabor the point, but maybe having a long spell where we can have Real Hell™ rather than an easy, thoughtless copout might be a welcome change, especially for those who claim that Hell Ain't What It Used to Be. Why, if we're getting so many tangents, maybe it means (gasp!) that even TICTH blathering might make good fodder for an OP with just a little extra thought!

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

I like Rook's suggestions, though snark and insults are not really my forte.
I shall consider how to best direct my meager talents in that regard.

No offence aimed at you, Ariston, but many of the TICTH closures had naught to do do with the health of Hell. Nor do I think every thread need be creative to be useful. However, I will belabour the point no more at this time.

Come, Sancho, let us retire to your insula and recoup. The giant is proving resistant to our lance at the moment.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

For what it's worth, my suggestion is to have a TICTH thread that is moderated quite strictly, but also a "TICTH - The Comments" thread, where people can comment on something in TICTH if they want.

Just my thoughts.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

A good idea IMHO.

[ 13. May 2015, 12:32: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by deano:
For what it's worth, my suggestion is to have a TICTH thread that is moderated quite strictly, but also a "TICTH - The Comments" thread, where people can comment on something in TICTH if they want.

Just my thoughts.

My thought is that the cross-referencing would become agonising.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

I concur. You all fuck up UBB code at the best of times, and the hosts' patience would wear thin soon.

My suggestion would be simply: if you want to rage at something, craft a decent OP. The English language can be enormously expressive, and your target can be more effectively and satisfyingly skewered with exultant prose than some badly-written, all-too-brief tweet-fodder.

[ 13. May 2015, 15:22: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
I like the TICTH thread. I've only used it once or twice, but found it very therapeutic when I did. I always check it out when I visit the ship. It is extremely boring though when people reply and continue conversations, and so in this case I see it as a fair call to close it, and to be strict with the ruling. Perhaps it will be better respected when it returns. Please let it return.

Hear, Hear! Please, please let us have it back. Is it possible to exclude the culprits from it so that the rest of us have somewhere to rant? Or is it possible to have a thread connected with TICTH where comments and answers can be posted?

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
Is it possible to exclude the culprits from it so that the rest of us have somewhere to rant?

No. Besides, you've got somewhere to rant. It's called Hell.

quote:
Or is it possible to have a thread connected with TICTH where comments and answers can be posted?

If a rant is worthy of comment then why not use it to start a new thread? If it's not, then why post it at all?

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

The problem, as I tried to suggest above, is that the consignor has no way of knowing in advance whether a rant is thread-worthy. While in high dudgeon, it's easy to suppose one's ire would be understood and shared by others, or (alternatively) equally easy to suppose that the Multiverse has selected oneself alone out of billions of possible *** avatar-labels *** (or whatever) to crap all over, and that therefore nobody at all would understand and share one's ire.

So others can simply PM their responses, if any, to the consignor, and when the consignor has accrued some critical mass of responses (though I've no idea what that might be), the consignor may then take it upon him/herself to open a thread on the topic. If the rant garners no responses, don't open a thread; the consignor has clearly been singled out by the Multiverse.

Simple, straightforward, doesn't drive the reg'lars off to Facebook, doesn't reduce us all to 140-character twarks, and places no additional burdens on the hosts.

[ 14. May 2015, 02:39: Message edited by: Porridge ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
The problem, as I tried to suggest above, is that the consignor has no way of knowing in advance whether a rant is thread-worthy.

How exactly is this a problem, though? No-one has a guarantee of "thread-worthiness" in Purgatory or Heaven or Kerygmania. Some threads take off, some don't.

And sometimes I write a pearl of genius on Facebook and none of my so-called friends Like it.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

There has been at least one thread I've started in Purgatory that has sunk and eventually been deleted with no responses. So no one else thought something was interesting, it didn't break my heart and send me into a cycle of despair and suicidal thoughts. No responses to a thread isn't the end of the world.

If you don't have a sufficiently thick skin to be able to cope with being ignored you shouldn't be posting in Hell in the first place.

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
The problem, as I tried to suggest above, is that the consignor has no way of knowing in advance whether a rant is thread-worthy.
How exactly is this a problem, though? No-one has a guarantee of "thread-worthiness" in Purgatory or Heaven or Kerygmania. Some threads take off, some don't.

And sometimes I write a pearl of genius on Facebook and none of my so-called friends Like it.

Right. I was responding, however, to this:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
If a rant is worthy of comment then why not use it to start a new thread? If it's not, then why post it at all?

We can only know if the rants we post are "worthy of comment" after somebody comments, and the TICTH thread forbids comment. To avoid annoying the hellhosts, I'm suggesting that those who feel they MUST comment do so by PM to the poster of the rant.

The ranter is then free to consider turning rant into thread when the rant has drawn several comments. If a rant draws no comments, then clearly it's best left as a one-off, with no thread forthcoming.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Okay, so you're talking about when someone has the urge to comment. Not the urge to rant.

The response to this is that we have told people, again and again and again, to start a thread. In fact we do it almost every time that the comments on a topic in TICTH get up to 3 or 4.

Maybe 5% of these calls are actually heeded. One reason for this is that many of the comments in TICTH are, to put it bluntly, rather vacuous.

There is in fact absolutely nothing technical to stop people from providing you these vacuous comments by PM right now. The main reason people post such things in the TICTH thread is in the hope that other Shipmates will mentally go "oh! he/she said something ever so slightly amusing and witty! where's the Like button?"

[ 14. May 2015, 04:00: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Okay, so you're talking about when someone has the urge to comment. Not the urge to rant.

The response to this is that we have told people, again and again and again, to start a thread. In fact we do it almost every time that the comments on a topic in TICTH get up to 3 or 4.

Maybe 5% of these calls are actually heeded. One reason for this is that many of the comments in TICTH are, to put it bluntly, rather vacuous.

Again, right. But it's also possible that the ranter, having posted on what s/he understands is a one-off-dedicated thread, is not checking back to see if anyone has commented. If s/he starts getting PMs about the post, though, s/he'll be on notice that others have responded to the rant.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There is in fact absolutely nothing technical to stop people from providing you these vacuous comments by PM right now. The main reason people post such things in the TICTH thread is in the hope that other Shipmates will mentally go "oh! he/she said something ever so slightly amusing and witty! where's the Like button?"

Yes, I noted earlier this is all entirely and easily possible now, though the fact that this is a discussion board provides an impetus to discuss rather than to PM. There's also the issue of what kinds of responses a rant draws, so the original ranter can consider whether the rant draws support and should become an AS thread, or draws like-minded ire and should maybe become a Hell thread, or provokes questions and discussion and should be tried out as a Purg thread.

The only reason this doesn't happen now, beside vacuousness, is that this is a discussion forum, and people are accustomed to commenting in public on the existing thread, rather than by PM. So instead of stating NO COMMENTS, simply directing TICTH posters to COMMENT ONLY BY PM TO POSTER, it puts the ball, er, squarely in the ranter's court (and not in the hellhosts') to determine what, if anything, to do with comments on a rant.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

At present there is no TICTH thread. Nothing stopping anyone who might have had something to post on TICTH starting a thread for their wee rant. People can then respond, or not, if they wish. The hosts might have drivel to read, but at least it's drivel without anyone disregarding plain and simple instructions from the hosts.

If there's ever another TICTH thread, there's nothing stopping someone about to post on it from thinking "this might get a response, so I'll start a new thread for it". There's also nothing to stop someone from copying a TICTH post in to the OP of a new thread inorder to respond, except that since the post was on TICTH rather than in a dedicated thread that it's implied that a response was not wanted. But, no one ever said respecting the wishes of others has a place in Hell.

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

All very true. I'm not claiming otherwise.

All I'm saying is that, since THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM, and shipmates are ACCUSTOMED TO DISCUSSING topics in a discussion forum, the primary reason posters ignore the simple instruction not to comment on TICTH posts is that it's the ONLY thread among a couple of hundred threads across a half-dozen boards where discussions / comments / responses are not only not encouraged but not allowed.

It's easy for anyone to forget momentarily where on this site one is. How many posters have inadvertently posted an attack in Purg, or launched an analysis or sympathetic commiseration in Hell? It happens regularly.

TICTH has, when running, always been a singular odd anomaly of a thread on this site: it's the only one where you're not permitted to respond.

Since it seems popular with Shipmates, and since it seems to get up Hellhosts' noses when people forget themselves and comment on posts, all I'm suggesting is a halfway measure which brings any future TICTH thread (if ever there is one) partway into alignment with the rest of these boards: allow discussion, but by PM only.

This may in turn prompt a poster who began by only wishing to vent a wee rant to turn it into a thread upon discovering the rant sparked some interest in others where none was originally expected.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

I've just read through TICTH. There are several posts there that could easily have been threads in their own right. In fact the second post on the thread about banks is an example. There are also an awful lot of posts there that would have been quite at home in All Saints.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
If a rant is worthy of comment then why not use it to start a new thread? If it's not, then why post it at all?
We can only know if the rants we post are "worthy of comment" after somebody comments, and the TICTH thread forbids comment.

What I meant by that was "if you think a rant is worthy of comment...". Apologies for the ambiguity.

That said, you can also find out if the rants you post are "worthy of comment" by starting a new thread and seeing if anyone responds. If they do, brilliant. If they don't, it sinks to page 2 of the board and gets quietly euthanized. As Alan notes, there's no rule against starting a thread that no-one else finds interesting.

If it helps, think of it as using the whole Hell board as a kind of TICTH, except instead of clicking "Post Reply" you click "New Topic". That seems to me to be the direction in which the Hellhosts would like to see things move, and if it sees their board swamped with dozens of short threads that fizzle out after a day or so then that's nobody's problem but theirs.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
That seems to me to be the direction in which the Hellhosts would like to see things move, and if it sees their board swamped with dozens of short threads that fizzle out after a day or so then that's nobody's problem but theirs.

We'll cope. Have at it.

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :

I'm not sure my idea of a TICTH Comments thread would need moderating beyond any normal modding duties, and as for keeping it organised... don't! Let individual posters work it out for themselves.

They will either get in with it, stop discussing it or put it in a thread in it's own right. Nobody other than interested posters need to worry about the organisation of the comments thread.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I'm not sure my idea of a TICTH Comments thread would need moderating beyond any normal modding duties, and as for keeping it organised... don't! Let individual posters work it out for themselves.

They will either get in with it, stop discussing it or put it in a thread in it's own right. Nobody other than interested posters need to worry about the organisation of the comments thread.

If it is really such a stand-alone entity then does it actually have to be part of the Ship?

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:

quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
I like the TICTH thread. I've only used it once or twice, but found it very therapeutic when I did. I always check it out when I visit the ship. It is extremely boring though when people reply and continue conversations, and so in this case I see it as a fair call to close it, and to be strict with the ruling. Perhaps it will be better respected when it returns. Please let it return.
Hear, Hear! Please, please let us have it back. Is it possible to exclude the culprits from it so that the rest of us have somewhere to rant? Or is it possible to have a thread connected with TICTH where comments and answers can be posted?

I'm completely confused, because to me, if it's worthly of comment then surely it deserves it's own thread?! [Ultra confused]

It seems we've got stuck in a groove where people think you either have to post the Best Hell OP ever or a single rant on TICH. Which seems a shame.

Tubbs

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

I'm left wondering why there's such reluctance to start a new thread rather than post to a TICTH one.

One possibility is that people have come to see TICTH as a "safe" place to have a bit of a rant without anyone else challenging or attacking them for it. Which is so far from what Hell is supposed to be about that it would be a sound reason to nix the thread in and of itself...

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
One possibility is that people have come to see TICTH as a "safe" place to have a bit of a rant without anyone else challenging or attacking them for it.

That is a very good point. I would add "ignoring" to "challenging or attacking".

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

bangs head softly on wall

Really? It must be cowardice? You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?

Yes, I know I said I was retiring from the field.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?

I can conceive of that perfectly well. The bit I'm struggling with is why such expression can't be through the medium of a new thread rather than a post on TICTH.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
One possibility is that people have come to see TICTH as a "safe" place to have a bit of a rant without anyone else challenging or attacking them for it.
That is a very good point. I would add "ignoring" to "challenging or attacking".

Exactly. Sometimes it's good to be able to yell, "Oh f*** it" and get it over and done with. If someone wants to affirm it with, "Amen to that!" then why not? I agree that debate and discussion of the grievance probably belong somewhere else.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Response to MtM
So, hundreds of posts which the initiator leaves after the first post followed by a page of inane chatter until a frustrated host closes it? All in hopes that one of a hundred will generate a decent discusion?

[ 14. May 2015, 14:01: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?
I can conceive of that perfectly well. The bit I'm struggling with is why such expression can't be through the medium of a new thread rather than a post on TICTH.

Therein lies our problem me thinks. You and I see a rant as a start of a discussion. Others see it as an end point.

Tubbs

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Response to MtM
So, hundreds of posts which the initiator leaves after the first post followed by a page of inane chatter until a frustrated host closes it? All in hopes that one of a hundred will generate a decent discusion?

I refer you to a previous post of mine:

quote:
That seems to me to be the direction in which the Hellhosts would like to see things move, and if it sees their board swamped with dozens of short threads that fizzle out after a day or so then that's nobody's problem but theirs.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Response to MtM
So, hundreds of posts which the initiator leaves after the first post followed by a page of inane chatter until a frustrated host closes it? All in hopes that one of a hundred will generate a decent discusion?
I refer you to a previous post of mine:

quote:
That seems to me to be the direction in which the Hellhosts would like to see things move, and if it sees their board swamped with dozens of short threads that fizzle out after a day or so then that's nobody's problem but theirs.

You are far more cruel than I.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

And of course we would't take that line unless we planned to put our money where our collective mouth is and let new op's rise and fall on their own merit.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And of course we would't take that line unless we planned to put our money where our collective mouth is and let new op's rise and fall on their own merit.

Really, you discussed this backstage and still thought it was a good idea?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Yes. We sure as hell don't want to create an atmosphere where people are afraid to post an OP because it might get smacked down for being too lame. If we are going to tell people to frame new OP's, we need to let them live or die as nature. ( or user created content) dictates.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Yes. We sure as hell don't want to create an atmosphere where people are afraid to post an OP because it might get smacked down for being too lame. If we are going to tell people to frame new OP's, we need to let them live or die as nature. ( or user created content) dictates.

OK, because this is decidedly not the feeling generated by the current version of Hell.

So, here is my problem with that direction: Most of the posts to TICTH won't qualify as an entire thread worth reading. Not because they are unworthy of being posted, but because discussion is not their purpose.
Be Not Afraid to Post is a nice thing, but it is not a solution to TICTH.

It would appear that TPTB don't want to do random rants. And that is cool, you do you, Bobby Brown.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Forgive me if I am being terribly thick, but can you unpack the Bobby Brown reference? The only one it generates for me is pretty hellish.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

He had a song in the Way, Way Back called My Prerogative.

I was trying to say, in a slightly creative and light* way, that it was your prerogative to host in the manner which you see fit.
Not trying to accuse you of beating your wife, abusing drugs or having an abysmal pop style.

For your, erm, enjoyment.
WARNING!!!: Link transports the clicker back to the 1980's. What happens if you click is not my responsibility.

*Yeah, so that failed.

[ 14. May 2015, 17:40: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Ok, thank you.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

(I still need to wade through the rest of the thread, but wanted to post this before someone closes the thread.)

ISTM that TICTH lets people briefly vent, and that does a lot of good.

I've never understood why discussion there is a problem, as long as posters mark new vents with "TICTH" in the first line. (Maybe there's a good reason in the rest of the thread, and I'll find it when I read it.)

Idea: maybe we could compromise, and limit comment/discussion posts in TICTH to 1-3 lines each?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

My apologies to the thread and its participants. I am letting my emotion control my responses and this is unacceptable.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Most of the posts to TICTH won't qualify as an entire thread worth reading. Not because they are unworthy of being posted, but because discussion is not their purpose.

That being the case, people could simply refrain from discussing them on the TICTH thread.

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Most of the posts to TICTH won't qualify as an entire thread worth reading. Not because they are unworthy of being posted, but because discussion is not their purpose.
That being the case, people could simply refrain from discussing them on the TICTH thread.

Kelly has come up with a cunning plan:

quote:
Eg:

[wrong way] boy that sucks, bob. Tell me more about your evil boss.

[right way] boy, that sucks, bob. TICTH damn splintery door handles

How about we give it a go? In a day or so ...

Tubbs

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I would have said, " a year or so." Y'all are lucky we collaberate. [Big Grin]

It occurs to me that this method might drive folk to make up TICTH entries just to justify their comments, but heck, if it winds up being suitably scathing, it might be entertaining.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Y'all are lucky we collaberate.

No shit.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

That genuinely made me shudder, Ruth. [Biased]

I still want to advocate for considering an OP over TICTH, though. In looking over Limbo, it seems to me we have stopped griping about mundane stuff. The stuff that might unify us. Right now it's all personality wars ang Big Issues.

And yeah, I know if you start an OP about your plumbing problems, someone will swoop in and moan, " how can you whine about this when war, illness, oppression, injustice.." But you know what? Fuck 'em. Ten people chiming in about stopped drains might mean ten less homicides that happen, if you follow me.

[ added smilie for clarification.]

[ 14. May 2015, 22:26: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Most of the posts to TICTH won't qualify as an entire thread worth reading. Not because they are unworthy of being posted, but because discussion is not their purpose.
That being the case, people could simply refrain from discussing them on the TICTH thread.
Kelly has come up with a cunning plan:

quote:
Eg:

[wrong way] boy that sucks, bob. Tell me more about your evil boss.

[right way] boy, that sucks, bob. TICTH damn splintery door handles
How about we give it a go? In a day or so ...

Tubbs

Possibly I am being thick, but what it is that we are planning to trial ? I am not getting it from the quote [Hot and Hormonal]

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Kelly has come up with a cunning plan:

quote:
Eg:

[wrong way] boy that sucks, bob. Tell me more about your evil boss.

[right way] boy, that sucks, bob. TICTH damn splintery door handles
How about we give it a go? In a day or so ...

Tubbs

Sounds a bit like some of the Circus games where once you've responded correctly you have to make up the next question.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Nothing, yet. i made a suggestion that Tubbs liked, and we are discussing it.

My suggestion was that one line comments that segued into your TICTH are passable. ( Pretty much what Spike, I , and I believe RooK or Orfeo did on the latest thread. )

But I still prefer the idea of letting the thread rest for a long time, before we restart it, for reasons stated above.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Kelly has come up with a cunning plan:

quote:
Eg:

[wrong way] boy that sucks, bob. Tell me more about your evil boss.

[right way] boy, that sucks, bob. TICTH damn splintery door handles
How about we give it a go? In a day or so ...

Tubbs
Sounds a bit like some of the Circus games where once you've responded correctly you have to make up the next question.

See, that's a great argument for " no"...
[Big Grin]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Nothing, yet. i made a suggestion that Tubbs liked, and we are discussing it.

And, of course, Kelly and Tubbs haven't posted in any official capacity, and are simply sharing suggestions the same as everyone else here. That includes me.

The Hellhosts get to make the decisions about individual threads on their board.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

And, AFAIC, that decision is No.

TICTH may return, but, as things currently stand, the leaves will be falling in my neck of the woods before it does. There may even be snowflakes. I want to see if a good, long absence does in fact make the heart grow fonder.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
bangs head softly on wall

Really? It must be cowardice? You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?

I can conceive of it. But I think there's a serious question here: does such a frustration belong on a discussion board?

This is one of the problems here for me. You've made some good points, and Porridge has made some good points. But in some respects they are points in precisely the opposite direction from each other. I've got one of you advocating that TICTH is a great place on a discussion board for things that don't actually need discussing, and the other emphasising that a discussion board is a place for discussing things.

I also think this points to a more fundamental problem, which is that opening posters don't actually get to control and decide what happens to their threads. And in that sense, each and every post in TICTH is like an opening post.

The fact that someone just wants to vent a little and doesn't want to discuss further does not, in fact, really prevent others from picking up the topic and tossing it around, whether seriously or inanely.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

I also think this points to a more fundamental problem, which is that opening posters don't actually get to control and decide what happens to their threads. And in that sense, each and every post in TICTH is like an opening post.

The fact that someone just wants to vent a little and doesn't want to discuss further does not, in fact, really prevent others from picking up the topic and tossing it around, whether seriously or inanely.

This is a great insight. Never thought of it that way before, but you're right.

[ 15. May 2015, 16:21: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
bangs head softly on wall

Really? It must be cowardice? You cannot conceive of wishing to vent a frustration that is enough to be vexing, but simple enough that the expression of it is sufficient?
I can conceive of it. But I think there's a serious question here: does such a frustration belong on a discussion board?

This is a valid point and has been made enough times to penetrate even my thick skull. My answer is, quite obviously, yes. Because I view SOF as a bit more than a discussion board. Yes, that is the core and the main attraction. But, ISTM, the community aspect provides much of the character. Does SOF need TICTH? No. I think it worthwhile no less for that.

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

I've got one of you advocating that TICTH is a great place on a discussion board for things that don't actually need discussing, and the other emphasising that a discussion board is a place for discussing things.

But we are already more than that. We are a travel agency, a lonely hearts, a support group,...
Mainly a discussion board,which is my main reason I come here, but I like the soft edges.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

True. I mean, I can't deny the 'travel agency' aspect having actually stayed with a Shipmate.

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

And drank countless beers, don't forget that. The Ship of Fools Guidebook to Drinking Spots in Obscure Places is a compendium of excellence.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But we are already more than that. We are a travel agency, a lonely hearts, a support group,...
Mainly a discussion board,which is my main reason I come here, but I like the soft edges.

Soft edges are one thing, but with maturity comes middle age, and I'm wondering if, instead of soft edges, we don't instead have a flabby middle.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
The Ship of Fools Guidebook to Drinking Spots in Obscure Places is a compendium of excellence.

I don't think we ever formally established this guidebook, it's spread across umpteen thread in All Saints, some archived others lost forever.

Maybe it's time to rectify this. Anyone wishing to contribute is hereby cordially invited to Heaven.

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Soft edges are one thing, but with maturity comes middle age, and I'm wondering if, instead of soft edges, we don't instead have a flabby middle.

Dadbod is all the rage in some circles in the US right now.

It's making me wonder where certain people were when MILF was a thing I couldn't escape.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0