Ship of Fools: Theology of Humour

Thread: Theology of Humour Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

We've had a few jokes threads, but I don't remember seeing one discussing any theological basis for humour.

There are only a few in the Bible, but there may be a bit more irony.

How do we respond to Jorge and William in The Name of The Rose? (I am in Italy at the moment, but Le Marche and not Piedmont)

Is there a spirituality contribution by humour? How do you use humour in your spiritual or religious life? Many sermons include jokes.

Do you see humour as a weapon thatcan be used for good or ill?

Please note. This is not a thread only about humour in the Bible nd I would be grateful if this thread was not moved to Kerygmania)

Posted by windsofchange (# 13000) on :

Glad you started the new thread!

I read a book many years ago by Elton Trueblood called "The Humor of Christ". In it Mr. Trueblood showed examples of how Jesus used irony, satire, and paradox as vital parts of his teachings.

One of the examples he gave was the famous "camel through the eye of the needle", and pointed out that it is a very humorous image, if you think about it. And even if, as later translators have asserted, it was a mistranslation, and "camel" was really meant to be "rope", that's still funny - imagine a nearsighted old lady trying to thread a tiny little needle with a huge hank of cable!

As for your other questions, such as humor in our own religious lives, I have been through some serious bouts of doubt in my life (see my user name!), but have always been "rescued" from feeling too sorry for myself by a judicious application of humor in the form of, say, "The Three Stooges" or Canada's "Corner Gas".

Which, when I've left off doubting (for the moment), I always attribute to God, reaching down and poking me in the rib cage, trying to tickle me out of my sadness. [Cool]

[ 11. September 2015, 15:52: Message edited by: windsofchange ]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

I appreciate the humor in scripture, which was aided by my work as an organist for Jewish services.

Humor in sermons can be an effective tool, but too frequently, I fear, it is a distraction.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

There is a lot of humour in the bible, it is just that a lot of it is not obvious to us, or lost in the translation. The eye of the needle is one example, as is the log in the eye. We treat them as serious theological discussions, not as jokes.

Christianity is about telling stories. One of the things that makes stories memorable is humour - it helps us remember them, to engage with them. So humour is, I think, crucial to the stories we tell. The story of Jael is humour - very dark humour, but still humour. It is actually spread through the stories of the bible.

The other use of humour is in talking and telling people difficult things. If you want to tell someone something difficult, starting with humour to relax people before going in for the kill works. So many preachers use it very poorly as a cop out way of starting a sermon (because they have been told to start with a joke).

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

I quite agree that humour helps make something memorable. Frankly, the sermons I best remember are also the funniest.

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
Do you see humour as a weapon that can be used for good or ill?

Of course. It is a two-edged sword, although (as somebody observed)most swords are. Humour is not good or evil in itself. It is how we use it that makes the difference. But what I find is that, properly used, it can provide perspective on a matter. While, in part, one might laugh at the joke, the fact that the joke is funny can provide insight into the underlying truth of a matter. This is true for any area of understanding, not limited to theology, of course. Humour can gently puncture pompousness. It can gently provide encouragement.

And, frankly, from a theological point of view, I'd be very uncomfortable living in a universe where God had no sense of humour because it seems to me that being able to laugh at something is inherent in having the capacity to forgive.

Perhaps that is phrased poorly. It isn't inherent. Obviously, you can forgive a murderer without finding the murder funny. I think what I am trying to convey is that the loving kindness that informs forgiveness can also be found at the base of humour used for good.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

GK Chesterton's quote is one of my all time faves:

quote:
“It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”

If we take ourselves too seriously, we limit God and exalt ourselves.

I think there is something of a lightness of being with true spirituality. I think humour helps us with that.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I suppose I see things the other way round. For me, those expressions of faith which are legalistic, rigid and only laugh at others are the ones that make me unsettled. They tend to be the ones that cannot look at themselves critically.

Being able to laugh at yourselves seems to me to be an indication of security and confidence in your own beliefs and faith. I would rather embrace a faith that people seem to be secure and confident in, not arrogantly having to follow rules, irrespective of their appropriateness.

I have met many people and groups who are quite happy to laugh at others, without being able to turn the humour around and see their own views in the same light. In truth, my faith is ridiculous. My expression of it is insane. It doesn't make sense, and it is laughable. That doesn't mean it is wrong - it means it is my expression, it is about my search for truth.

Oh, and if you want humour in the bible, God saying "I want you to chop a bit off your knob to show how dedicated you are to me" has to be the biggest joke ever.

Posted by Felafool (# 270) on :

For me, John chapter 9 the healing of the man born blind, is a really funny story - I could imagine it in a Monty Python sketch.

ISTM that humour is very culturally based, and there is a lot of humour in the Bible which we tend to miss. e.g. The Hebrew penchant for hyperbole gives a lot of scope for humour, but for most readers it can appear like over-reaction. (cf if your eye/hand offends you, get rid of it)

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
GK Chesterton's quote is one of my all time faves:

quote:
“It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”
If we take ourselves too seriously, we limit God and exalt ourselves.

Hey, Evensong, haven't seen you in a while, hope you've been well.

Unfortunately now the world is going to end because I agree with you completely.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Hey, Evensong, haven't seen you in a while, hope you've been well.

Unfortunately now the world is going to end because I agree with you completely.

pauses a monent before loading bug-out bag into the 4x4

Anything one feels to serious for humour hasn't been fully processed.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

WTH's a bug-out bag?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Oh, and if you want humour in the bible, God saying "I want you to chop a bit off your knob to show how dedicated you are to me" has to be the biggest joke ever.

It's actually "I want you to chop of a bit of your 7-day-old baby's knob." Which is a bit more sinister.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
mousethief: WTH's a bug-out bag?

I had one when I lived in Mozambique, but we called it a grab bag.

[ 12. September 2015, 19:36: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
WTH's a bug-out bag?

It is an emergency preparedness bag. In it, a reasonable person would have first aid supplies, a torch, rope, 72 hours of food and water, etc. for emergencies. (earthquake, flood, fire, power-grid failure)
Crazy people have supplies for the apocalypse, govt. takeover, zombies....

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

I sure 'preppers' would derive great amusement from having their garage full of pasta, tinned beans, powdered milk and stock-pile of ammo described as a Bug- out-bag

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
Many sermons include jokes.

For some reason, I generally find it hard to appreciate pulpit humour. I think it takes a certain type of preacher, and a certain kind of sermon, to do it well.

Maybe it also depends on the faith tradition. The historical churches largely expect congregations to listen to sermons in silence, so there's something a bit inauthentic about the odd humorous comment to which the listeners are given indulgent permission to respond. Something patronising, even. Unlike stand-up comedy mainstream preaching makes no pretence at being a democratic form. There's no culture of heckling. As a result, laughing at clergy jokes can feel too much like massaging an ego.

On a different (and perhaps tangential) note, British culture has often found particular religious 'types' to be useful comedy material. The clergy (of various types) are figures of fun, as are nuns. But despite the lay eccentrics in 'The Vicar of Dibley' and 'Rev' I think the funny layperson is not so in evidence now. I suppose this is because laughable religious fanatics (e.g. the temperance crusaders) have just become less visible to the culture, and hence less recognisable to TV audiences. And the visibly obsessive religious person is more likely to be feared or viewed as a threat to secular values than as a harmless fool.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I think the figure-of-fun lay person has been taken to an extreme, and so is less recognisable. There is a tendency in the UK for them to be US-inspired.

I agree with the issue of pulpit humour. I think the problem is that not everyone can do humour, and to do that sort of stand-up requires skill and practice, which they don't get. Very few preachers can tell a decent joke (if anyone saw the awful series "Vicars telling Jokes", that was clear proof). Which makes most sermon jokes painful, rather than relaxing humour - in fact doing the opposite of what they should be doing.

Actually, as the wonderful Milton Jones shows, it is not just about having funny lines. I could tell some of his jokes, and they wouldn't be half as funny as when he tells them. You need good material and the skills to make it funny in the telling.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
GK Chesterton's quote is one of my all time faves:

quote:
“It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it.”
If we take ourselves too seriously, we limit God and exalt ourselves.
Hey, Evensong, haven't seen you in a while, hope you've been well.

Unfortunately now the world is going to end because I agree with you completely.

Thanks mousethief. [Smile]

Yes I'm well. Ordained working life is quite intense on many levels and leaves me depleted for Ship engagement. But I'm always amazed at how formative the Ship has been for me in so many positive ways IRL and I like to still check in occasionally to remember all these cool, insightful people; yourself included. [Biased]

Posted by Philip Charles (# 618) on :

There is also theology in humour. This story comes from another culture but should be understood by all.
Mike and Jack were school mates who were mad keen on Rugby. They never played beyond club level and over the years they coached, administered and in their old age watch the matches on TV while their wives supplied suitable refreshments.
Mike. "I wonder if they play Rugby in Heaven?"
Jack. "Let's us agree that the first on of us who dies comes back to tell the other."
A few days after Mike's funeral his shade appears to Jack.
Jack. "Well what's the news?"
Mike. "I have good news and bad news."
Jack. "The good news?"
Mike. "There is rugby in heaven."
Jack. "The bad news?"
Mike "You are playing on Wednesday."

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