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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: A turmoil of confusion
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
I am confused, upset, in turmoil of thought and emotion.
The TV images of Syrian refugees / asylum seekers / displaced persons are appalling.
Caught between President Assad's brutal regime and Islamic League they are between a rock and a hard place. They need all the help we can give them.
But, in amongst them are people who are simply fleeing from distressing economic conditions in Bangaladesh and other parts of Africa / Asia.
And what distresses and confuses me is that so many seem to be armed with mobile phones and other technological equipment which is costly and requires to be paid for. How?
The TV scenes are realistic and horrible and enough to drive any right thinking and feeling person to despair.
But, underneath, there seems to be another, untold and secret narrative which is disturbing.
I am torn in two trying to make any sense of it. Help!!!!
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
One thing I do know - the countries of Europe don't seem to be co-ordinating in any way, or even meeting to discuss the problem.
As to the mobile phones - the people who have got this far are not poor, they are simply desperate. The poor will not have been able to pay the traffickers in the first place.
It is terrible on all fronts ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
These people had lives before they became refugees you know. Back in Syria, they once had jobs, houses, businesses, cars, belongings, just like you or I. War will have destroyed much, and the traffickers who pile them into sea-going coffins will have stripped them of more - but why is it surprising that they have hung on to something so vital to connect them to families left behind as a phone?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
It is not that unusual for a poor person to have a cell phone.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
And what distresses and confuses me is that so many seem to be armed with mobile phones and other technological equipment which is costly and requires to be paid for. How?
This may help you, in a somewhat insulting way.
quote:
Surprised that Syrian refugees have smartphones? Sorry to break this to you, but you're an idiot
You don't need to be a white westerner to own a relatively cheap piece of technology
“Hey, those people fleeing war in Syria aren’t poor at all! Look, they all have smartphones!” is one increasingly tedious complaint that has been bubbling away on social media recently. Owning a mobile phone, it seems, should render one ineligible for help when trying to stop yourself and your family from dying in a war.
<snip>
Syria is not a rich country, but it is not a poor country either: it ranks as a “lower middle income” according to the World Bank. In 2007 (the last year stats for both were available) Syria had a Gross National Income (GNI) per capita of $1850 which is more than Egypt at the time, which was only at $1620. Mobile phone penetration is similarly high in Syria as Egypt too. According to the CIA World Factbook in 2014 Syria had 87 mobile phones per 100 of the population, compared to Egypt’s 110 per 100 (the UK has 123 per 100 people).
In 2011 we saw Egyptians take to the streets and using the power of their smartphones to mobilise support across apps and social media. Which raises another question: why can we accept that Egypt can have phones ubiquitous enough to ferment a revolution, yet act surprised when a wealthier country not too far away isn’t in a similar situation?
<snip>
It's also possible to pick up the second generation iPhone - the iPhone 3G - for around £25, and despite being a few years old is still perfectly serviceable. There are more mobile phones than people in the world so chances are that anyone who can afford a phone (like millions of Syrians) already own one.
So the answer to how surprised should we be that many of the Syrian refugees have smartphones is a resounding “not very”.
Aside from the logistics and economics involved, which should be apparent with even a cursory bit of thought, there's another factor not discussed in detail in the article. The people fleeing Syria aren't "fleeing poverty", they're "fleeing getting shot".
Someone once observed that you can tell the rough age of someone decrying the not-really-poverty of others by the items they fixate on. This is something that was a fairly expensive luxury item when they were in their late teens/early twenties but is now a relatively inexpensive and commonplace piece of technology. For the truly old it's a color television. If you came of age in the late 1970s or early 1980s, it's probably a microwave oven. For someone who came of age in the late 1990s or early 2000s it's a mobile phone. I imagine those at the young end of that set will specify a smartphone.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
What a lot of my friends in Africa don't have is credit. They don't call me; they let my phone ring twice and hang up, expecting me to call them back.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
I believe in many parts of the developing world smartphones are almost a necessity, because the physical infrastructure that (for us) they replace was never developed in the first place. It is cheaper (I imagine) to put up a few mobile phone masts than lay down landlines.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Tanzania and Somaliland are the capitals of the world for mobile-to-mobile payments (something that over here is still being touted as the next big thing) - few people ever had debit cards, so in effect these places have skipped a step in their development.
[ 17. September 2015, 17:57: Message edited by: Ricardus ]
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
And what distresses and confuses me is that so many seem to be armed with mobile phones and other technological equipment which is costly and requires to be paid for. How?
I do not wish to seem antagonistic, so I will try not to assume you personally have a particular attitude.
But I hear this constantly, "Why does that homeless/poor/struggling person have X"? Implying that they are not desperate or that they deserve less help because they are not managing their funds.
Mobiles are more a necessity these days, so there is that.
And that may be their only "expensive" item. Same for iPods, etc.
"If the bastards want ought from me, they should have naught first".
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
As to the mobile phones - the people who have got this far are not poor, they are simply desperate. The poor will not have been able to pay the traffickers in the first place.
This is not completely accurate. In some cases, the people you see fleeing are the few members of a large family or support network which funded their effort.
Also, some families/ save for a long time to be able to pay.
And, those of us who are comfortable, tend to think in terms of affording the effort on top of all our other luxuries/expenses. They are often putting everything they have* into emigrating.
*and sometimes more
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I think there's a confusion for some people between economic migrants and refugees. Thus, if an economic migrant is carrying an expensive phone, we might raise our eyebrows, but there's no reason why a refugee, fleeing civil war, might not be fairly affluent.
In fact, some argue that many refugees are educated middle class people, although I don't really know. See also the argument that Germany is being clever in welcoming them.
Incidentally, I bought a new smartphone for £45.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I think there's a confusion for some people between economic migrants and refugees. Thus, if an economic migrant is carrying an expensive phone, we might raise our eyebrows, but there's no reason why a refugee, fleeing civil war, might not be fairly affluent.
In fact, some argue that many refugees are educated middle class people, although I don't really know. See also the argument that Germany is being clever in welcoming them.
Incidentally, I bought a new smartphone for £45.
The reality is that they will be a mix. Always have been, always will be.*
It is the automatic assumptions and misunderstandings that I am arguing against.
*For certain values of "always" of course.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
I've said from the start that this mass movement of people is being driven by the smart phone. The Internet is luring many many people, who have hitherto put up with their lot, into an entirely false panacea to all their ills.
The affluent West cannot scrap it's laws and allow half the Third and Second World to simply walk across it's borders. I am not an unfeeling person, nor are those who share this view. People MUST somehow be helped in their own countries.
In Syria for example, the combined forces of the UN could easily provide protection for those who want nothing to do with violence. If the West is serious about getting involved in civil wars then it has to think long and hard, then act decisively with overwhelming force. But, as we all know too well, military solutions are fraught with difficulty.
In reply to the OP, my partner was similarly affected by visual news coverage of migrant crisis last night.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
They are often putting everything they have* into emigrating.
Yes they are.
And they don't start out poor, the poor don't have anything to pool. There are people left behind, in a terrible war zone with nothing. Many Syrians arriving in Europe had good homes and jobs, all of which have been smashed to smithereens.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
They are often putting everything they have* into emigrating.
Yes they are.
And they don't start out poor, the poor don't have anything to pool. There are people left behind, in a terrible war zone with nothing. Many Syrians arriving in Europe had good homes and jobs, all of which have been smashed to smithereens.
Not every immigrant is poor. But having resources to pool doesn't eliminate one form being poor. Poor =/= abject poverty.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Wilfried
Shipmate
# 12277
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
And what distresses and confuses me is that so many seem to be armed with mobile phones and other technological equipment which is costly and requires to be paid for. How?
Imagine you're living your comfortable middle class life, when all of a sudden, your government collapses and civil war erupts around you, and government and rebel forces rampage through your city. In desperation you decide to flee, and grab anything you can carry that might be useful, which might include all the cash you can get your hands on, valuables you can sell or barter, and yes, your cell phone, which might come in quite handy, as long as it continues to work. Your former life is destroyed, you've faced terror, tragedy, and trauma, you've left behind almost all your worldly possessions and the only life you've ever known, to face more grave danger and uncertainty. The fact that you have a cell phone is not a sign that you are not in a desperate situation.
Posts: 429 | From: Lefty on the Right Coast | Registered: Jan 2007
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
But, in amongst them are people who are simply fleeing from distressing economic conditions in Bangaladesh and other parts of Africa / Asia.
Simply? They simply want a better life than is available in the country they happened to be born in. And they are not permitted to have that better life, because they were not born in the west, where we, by our superior organisational abilities have sorted things out for ourselves.
So we must insist that these people go away and sort things out for themselves, because we're too busy finding the money to run our two 4x4s and ensure that our children get into the right schools to be bothered about them lot over there.
We need to smash these countries. Boarders do not keep us safe - they keep us apart. They keep us from loving one another and living as a single human race. Countries are our enemy. Why shouldn't we have wars here in our cosy little corner of the world? Why should we all have a nice house in a nice suburb, when the rest of the world is on fire? How dare we stop these people at Dover? They want to come here to here to study at Oxford University - that's what they told the cameraman. Let them come!
That's the confusion I'm feeling right at this moment. (And I'm feeling this from a really, really nice big 5 bed detached house in semi-rural Shropshire where I feel very safe and very comfortable.)
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
Bollocks to Humble Servant and all who live in 5 bedroomed houses and can pontificate from the vantage point of "it will never happen to me.
Get a life. There are real issues out there.
I, for one, am speaking out of personal experience of being targeted by Mugabe and his thugs.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Unless....
We actually prefer the middle east as an unstable mess. Do we?
The refugees are merely an inconvenience.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Bollocks to Humble Servant and all who live in 5 bedroomed houses and can pontificate from the vantage point of "it will never happen to me.
Get a life. There are real issues out there.
I, for one, am speaking out of personal experience of being targeted by Mugabe and his thugs.
I, for one, am totally confused by your response to HS.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
shamwari, if you WEREN'T confused, upset, in turmoil of thought and emotion you'd be a ... bastard.
You're not. And Humble Servant and all of us here, God included and by His grace, are with you.
We're seeing a glimpse of John Lennon's glimpse of the Kingdom of God: Imagine there's no countries.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Bollocks to Humble Servant and all who live in 5 bedroomed houses and can pontificate from the vantage point of "it will never happen to me.
Get a life. There are real issues out there.
I, for one, am speaking out of personal experience of being targeted by Mugabe and his thugs.
I, for one, am totally confused by your response to HS.
Me, too-- I have a feeling some sarcasm was misread. I read HS as having a big problem with NIMBY, while recognizing (s)he was sheltered by it.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wilfried:
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
And what distresses and confuses me is that so many seem to be armed with mobile phones and other technological equipment which is costly and requires to be paid for. How?
Imagine you're living your comfortable middle class life, when all of a sudden, your government collapses and civil war erupts around you, and government and rebel forces rampage through your city. In desperation you decide to flee, and grab anything you can carry that might be useful, which might include all the cash you can get your hands on, valuables you can sell or barter, and yes, your cell phone, which might come in quite handy, as long as it continues to work. Your former life is destroyed, you've faced terror, tragedy, and trauma, you've left behind almost all your worldly possessions and the only life you've ever known, to face more grave danger and uncertainty. The fact that you have a cell phone is not a sign that you are not in a desperate situation.
It sure as hell would be the fuckin' first thing I would grab! Maybe I could contact some help!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Me, too-- I have a feeling some sarcasm was misread. I read HS as having a big problem with NIMBY, while recognizing (s)he was sheltered by it.
Exactly my read.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
Such questions, re phones, are asked in Australia, regarding "the poor". My theory is, that phones are often necessary to coordinate job interviews, welfare department queries, check resumes and maybe even write them, and so forth.
I have lovely poor friends. They have no home phone or computer or wifi. But, with budgeting carefully, a smart phone fills a variety of needs, way belong what is mentioned in my sentences above.
Maybe some of these tragic refugees owned smart phones back home? Rich or poor, they are a part of modern life.
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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
It is not that unusual for a poor person to have a cell phone.
They are ubiquitous in Africa-- even more so than in the US. In part because they are so useful in places where landlines are few and far between and transport difficult. Many places just jumped over the whole landline thing and went straight to cell towers. Many of our students in central Africa did not have electricity or indoor plumbing, but every single one of them had a cell phone. Not an iphone, but some sort of phone.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I believe in many parts of the developing world smartphones are almost a necessity, because the physical infrastructure that (for us) they replace was never developed in the first place. It is cheaper (I imagine) to put up a few mobile phone masts than lay down landlines.
Especially if land lines get stolen for the scrap metal value.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
However, what confuses me is that their phones seem to be working despite being carried and used for days. My phone needs to be recharged after a couple of days. Do these peole have a special type of phone?
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{{{{{shamwari}}}}}
I'm sorry for what you went through with Mugabe. I don't know if you want to get into this... but what was or would've been helpful for you, back then? It might help us understand the situation more.
But it's absolutely ok if you *don't* want to get into it.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
bib--
I don't know how they're recharging. But there are solar and wind-up chargers.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
There are probably mains outlets in lots of public spaces (motorway service stations, railway stations, public loos etc), if only so the cleaners can plug the vaccuum cleaner in. It just takes one person with the right adapter and lots of phones can be charged. Is it a coincidence that the pictures of loads of people using their phones are in such places? Of course not, they've just got to somewhere they can recharge them for the first time in days, possibly somewhere with free wifi. Naturally, they congregate in the hotspot with freshly charged batteries and check up on their friends and family. All conveniently located in one place for the newspaper photographer to get the "OMG! they all have mobile phones!" pictures.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
It strikes me that there are a few things that are not being stated openly at the moment.
First is about the expectations of the refugees. One I heard interviewed on the radio was talking about the free healthcare and access to university he expected to get on arrival in England.
The reality is that refugees are not entitled to more than the most basic of accommodation, healthcare and social care. They are not entitled to work (necessarily), they are not entitled to the full range of social security, they are not even entitled to housing.
Of course, we in Western Europe like to think of ourselves as being considerably "better" than those in Eastern Europe, never mind Turkey or Jordan. But it strikes me that it is entirely possible that long-term the refugees will be housed in quickly-erected housing on remote ex-military bases with basic healthcare and education provision.
Given the state of the British social security and local government, it looks like the central authorities will try to control any householder who offers to house a refugee, so at best this is going to be a very temporary and very underused resource. I'm not sure even how long the goodwill would last if there was an impact on school places, for example.
The chances of refugees getting access to top English universities seems to me to be very small.
Second, I also think that EU leaders will be worrying about the message integrating the Syrian refugees into their countries would send the world. Another interview I heard was with a Syrian who was complaining about trade in fake Syrian passports.
"But," said the interviewer, "there are wars in other countries and they might be escaping as you are.."
The Syrian appeared to believe that only Syrians should be given asylum in Europe.
Of course, we shouldn't think that these are representative of everyone. And I'm clearly not saying that Europe shouldn't be doing more. And, to be honest, I think the only moral thing to do is to integrate the refugees into our societies.
But - it seems to me - the message will go out that Europe will look after refugees who flee and make enough risky journeys. Which, I think, will be a big draw to those who are fleeing war in many parts of the world.
And deservedly so. We lived in luxury whilst they suffered and died. Hark the birds coming home to roost.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I felt the same stomach churning empathy and confusion when Bush senior started bombing Iraq.
These days I have to severely limit my time watching the News. I can't bear it.
I know this shouldn't be about us. But we do have to live in our own skins and with our own minds. The refugees are dealing with unimaginable upheaval - and they are the lucky ones.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) - from one who doesn't pray any more
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Bollocks to Humble Servant and all who live in 5 bedroomed houses and can pontificate from the vantage point of "it will never happen to me.
Get a life. There are real issues out there.
[Hosting]
Not only is that far too personal for Purgatory, and a direct breach of commandment 3, it looks very much to me that your OP was designed to invite cynicism about refugees. As you then want to jump on the first person who appears to take the bait, even though the 'objectionable' comments were clearly intended ironically, I strongly suspect that you are also in breach of commandment 1.
Your personal experiences do not give you a pass on the board rules you agreed to when you signed up. If my suspicion that you are trolling is misplaced, and this is simply too touchy a subject for you to engage in within the rules, then I would suggest that you either leave the whole topic alone, or take your comments to Hell and start a generalised rant there.
[/Hosting]
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I was in Lusaka two weeks ago, and I found it interesting to see these people at the side of the street, you can pay them a couple of cents and then they offer you like 10 WhatsApp messages. I don't know how they do it, do they hook up your phone for a couple of seconds?
No-one is able to pay a monthly subscription for their phones, but people find ways around that. I find that very interesting.
I'm also amazed by how cell phones are fuelling the solar revolution in Africa. People live in huts made of mud and straw, but they have a cheap Chinese solar panel besides it and they're fussing around with it the whole time.
The electricity is used for light in the evening and sometimes for music, but mostly for charging their cell phones.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I felt the same stomach churning empathy and confusion when Bush senior started bombing Iraq.
These days I have to severely limit my time watching the News. I can't bear it.
I know this shouldn't be about us. But we do have to live in our own skins and with our own minds. The refugees are dealing with unimaginable upheaval - and they are the lucky ones.
- from one who doesn't pray any more
It's hard to watch. I also think it could be momentous, I mean, this is like a karmic reversal of all the times the West has gone out to the world, to conquer it and loot it. Now the huddled masses are outside the gate.
One impulse is to close the drawbridge, and repel all boarders (and close one's mind to it all); another, to let in large numbers and welcome them. The world is melting.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
A humble apology to Humble Servant for an out of order post which properly belonged in Hell ( which is where I thought I was at the time.)
The Syrian refugees need all the help and refuge we can give them. They are caught between a rock and a hard place with Assad on one side and Islamic League on the other.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
A humble apology to Humble Servant for an out of order post which properly belonged in Hell ( which is where I thought I was at the time.)
Not at all Shamwari. It feels like bollocks from where I'm sitting too. If I was on my own in this house I'd probably be annoying the neighbours by giving refuge to some of these people; but I have a family of my own making living here with me. I volunteered to look after them when I created them, so I have to fulfil those obligations too. I'm sure we could take a few homeless children in, but it's not easy to sell that idea to everyone who would be affected.
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
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