Ship of Fools: Christian movies not normally thought of as Christian

Thread: Christian movies not normally thought of as Christian Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Bibliophile (# 18418) on :

There are plenty of movies that are specifically made and marketed as Christian entertainment, some good, plenty of others not so good.

However I think it would be interesting to have a discussion of movies that are not normally thought of as Christian, or indeed are sometimes thought of as anti Christian, but which are in fact have a great Christian content.

The movie I would suggest in the category is the Ken Russell movie 'The Devils' (plot summary and cast here )

Spoiler Alert

The main character of Urbain Grandier played by Oliver Reed is shown as being a flawed and sinful man who is yet repentant and shows true Christian faith. He is shown as being persecuted by those driven by the basest of motives whilst pretending to be he guardians of virtue. He does not lead the most Christ like life but his trial and death are shown as being rather Christ like.

There are great performances in the film from Vanessa Redgrave, Dudley Sutton, Michael Gothard and Murray Melvin. Also the depiction Grandier's relationship with Madeleine De Brou, played by Gemma Jones, is a beautiful portrait of Christian marriage.

The film was highly controversial on its release and some of the more graphic scenes were cut. I think some of those cuts were justified. Ken Russell did push some of it a bit too far but then what do you expect from Ken Russell. That is a minor quibble however. Overall it is a great Christian movie.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

The Devils is one of my all-time favorites and has some memorable one-liners. The best, I think, is when King Louis proffers what is supposed to be a vial of the Precious Blood enclosed in a gold box. Its mere existence appears to put to flight immediately the demons possessing Sister Jean, who is being exorcised by the Dominican Father Barre.

When the box is revealed to be empty, Father Barre says to King Louis, "What kind of trick have you played on us?" To which Louis replies, "Oh, no, reverend Father, what kind of trick have you played on us?

Precious.

Posted by windsofchange (# 13000) on :

I've often thought "Groundhog Day" had a fairly Christian message in that Bill Murray's character had to learn that the only way to receive love is to give it first.

Of course, he still couldn't quite commit to a permanent relationship at the end ("Let's rent first!"), but it was a nice start. [Big Grin]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I thought Groundhog Day was Buddhist in the sense of reincarnation every day until he got it right.

Obviously Star Wars is Christian. Luke was very surprised to told that he was the saviour, though it's an interesting spin that he had defy his father and wasn't actually killed. But he's still a Jesus.

The most troubling Jesus for me is the rapist/murderer played by Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking, who is posed as Christ upon the execution table.

Posted by windsofchange (# 13000) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I thought Groundhog Day was Buddhist in the sense of reincarnation every day until he got it right.

Sure, that too. But remember, it wasn't till he started doing good things around town for everyone, out of the goodness of his heart and not just to "get the girl", that he really became a likeable person.

And of course all the great religions have a few things in common ... :-)

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by windsofchange:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I thought Groundhog Day was Buddhist in the sense of reincarnation every day until he got it right.
Sure, that too. But remember, it wasn't till he started doing good things around town for everyone, out of the goodness of his heart and not just to "get the girl", that he really became a likeable person.

And of course all the great religions have a few things in common ... :-)

There is a video somewhere on YouTube of Harold Ramis discussing the various interpretations that religious people put onto Groundhog Day. (Maybe I first saw it on the Ship?)

As for my own choices, The Big Kahuna features a character who actually is a practicing Christian, and in fact the plot deals directly with evangelization, so it's not exactly disguising its themes. But I don't get the impression that the film was marketed at a Christian audience, and thus might qualify as "not normally thought of as Christian".

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I thought Groundhog Day was Buddhist in the sense of reincarnation every day until he got it right.

Obviously Star Wars is Christian. Luke was very surprised to told that he was the saviour, though it's an interesting spin that he had defy his father and wasn't actually killed. But he's still a Jesus.

The most troubling Jesus for me is the rapist/murderer played by Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking, who is posed as Christ upon the execution table.

Well, seeing as how we're all sinners, there shouldn't be any more problem with comparing him to Jesus than comparing anyone else.

That said, I did think that pose was a rather hamfisted bit of symbolism, in an otherwise thoiughtful and subtle movie. I wonder if it was based on Sister Prejean's subjective impressions of the killer at the execution.

Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on :

The one that always springs to mind is the original Wicker Man. Without giving away spoilers the Christian Policeman, played by Edward Woodward, who is the main protagonist is convincing and the ending is genuinely powerful.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

One of the ones often trotted out at student christian unions is The Matrix. I just wish they hadn't made the two sequels. One could consider Neo as a messiah figure, and the matrix itself as Plato's shadows. So it's got quite gnostic overtones. Of course, it's dripping with other references (Trinity, Zion, etc).

I also know that Marcus Borg considered Superman to be the American view of Jesus. Highly docetic, Superman is the saviour of the world, who is all powerful and can do anything. Big and brash, Americans prefer an all-conquering hero to a crucified man.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Nice thread but it's Heavenly rather than Purgish. Off you go.

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Some "Christian" themes, such as redemption, are pretty universal.

Leap of Faith is obviously not made from a Christian perspective, but I think it has a lot to say to Christianity and I love the sting in the tail.

Saved! is also openly critical and I love it. I use it as a barometer for how evangelical I'm feeling.

No list of mine like this is complete without The Apostle.

And a recent discovery, Secret Sunshine, features prison, an evangelical conversion, an evangelical meltdown, and a failed attempt at unilateral forgiveness in it, so it's all good [Smile]

ETA Book of Eli, rather more lowbrow and as much to do, perhaps, with US cultural values as Christianity, but also thought-provoking in its way.

[ 25. August 2015, 09:09: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on :

Sipech said

quote:
I also know that Marcus Borg considered Superman to be the American view of Jesus. Highly docetic, Superman is the saviour of the world, who is all powerful and can do anything. Big and brash, Americans prefer an all-conquering hero to a crucified man.

This was a lot of folk's main criticism of the recent Man of Steel also. Apparently the symbolism was laid on thick with a trowel....

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I'm not entirely convinced by Star Wars. Luke's name, in full, references Loki Sky Traveller (if it doesn't, then I'm as surprised as I was when I came across that by-name for him), whose function in Norse myth seems to be to initiate the destruction of a pretty fallible and not very nice deity who is not his father (but is called Allfather) in order for something better to arise. (But this may have been modified by the Christian who wrote it down).

There was, long ago, a Dr Who story involving some aliens who had been enslaved as miners for an Earth colonial company, who needed to go through a metamorphosis via an insectlike form (which was being exterminated - by the humans) enabled by a substance in the mines, but which they were kept from, as I recall. The leader of the alien rebellion was eventually able to complete his change, after appearing to die, and became a very powerful entity able to release the Dr and his companion from where they had been imprisoned, and restore liberty to his people. This story completed on the Saturday between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, as I recall, remembering that I thought they had been pushing the symbolism a bit. I can't remember what the story was called. I don't expect Bibliophile would like a number of elements of it.

[ 25. August 2015, 10:51: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :

Harry Potter. J K Rowling identifies as Christian and the themes are all about flawed people seeking to save and be saved. Ok, so Harry is certainly not perfect, but he does sacrifice his life and then rise from the dead.

Cattyish, just saying.

Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on :

Penny S said

quote:
This story completed on the Saturday between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, as I recall, remembering that I thought they had been pushing the symbolism a bit. I can't remember what the story was called. I don't expect Bibliophile would like a number of elements of it.

The story was The Mutants Myself and Mrs Beatmenace watched (all the ones we had) in order a while ago.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Thank you - I shall pursue it. It's odd - loads of stories have vanished into Netherwhere, but not that one. I wonder if it will come up on the nostalgia channels.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

And I see from Wikipedia that I had to be wrong about Easter - since episode 6 was in May. Hmm.

Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I thought Groundhog Day was Buddhist in the sense of reincarnation every day until he got it right.

Obviously Star Wars is Christian. Luke was very surprised to told that he was the saviour, though it's an interesting spin that he had defy his father and wasn't actually killed. But he's still a Jesus.

The most troubling Jesus for me is the rapist/murderer played by Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking, who is posed as Christ upon the execution table.
Well, seeing as how we're all sinners, there shouldn't be any more problem with comparing him to Jesus than comparing anyone else.

That said, I did think that pose was a rather hamfisted bit of symbolism, in an otherwise thoiughtful and subtle movie. I wonder if it was based on Sister Prejean's subjective impressions of the killer at the execution.

The results for a Google search on lethal injection chair images suggest that "pose" (strapped to a bed with arms outstretched) is standard operating procedure.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Some years ago, the Vatican put together a movie list. While the details can certainly be quibbled with, I've always appreciated the categories used. Some of explicitly Christian movies, mostly biopics of saints.

The next category is 'values;' movies which depict virtuous action regardless of religious context. One movie in this category (Burmese harp) features a Buddhist hero; Ghandi is another one.

The third category is 'art;' movies which simply by their excellence of craft give glory to our master builder. Passolini's 8 1/2 is on this list, as is the Wizard of Oz.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I think you can be Jesus in a movie if (incomplete list):

-you're about 33
-you associate with poor people, low lifes, criminals, prostitutes
-your parentage is open to debate
-you work with your hands, particularly carpentry
-you eat fish and bread (tuna sandwiches anyone?)
-you are a 'good person' but get rather misunderstood
-consequences for actions exceed the offence

Posted by Crœsos (# 238) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The most troubling Jesus for me is the rapist/murderer played by Sean Penn in Dead Man Walking, who is posed as Christ upon the execution table.

That's more a case of cinéma vérité than symbolism. Lethal injection tables are, for obvious reasons, built to give easy access to the condemned's arms, giving them a cross-like look. Not surprising that one form of execution looks a lot like other forms, given the practical limitations involved.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Surgery tables are much the same. At least, the one I had my C-section on required the same crucifixion pose, which felt rather odd, but hey...

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
Some years ago, the Vatican put together a movie list. While the details can certainly be quibbled with, I've always appreciated the categories used. Some of explicitly Christian movies, mostly biopics of saints.

The next category is 'values;' movies which depict virtuous action regardless of religious context. One movie in this category (Burmese harp) features a Buddhist hero; Ghandi is another one.

The third category is 'art;' movies which simply by their excellence of craft give glory to our master builder. Passolini's 8 1/2 is on this list, as is the Wizard of Oz.

I think you mean Fellini's 8 1/2. Pasolini directed, among other things, The Gospel According To St. Matthew, which may very well be on the Vatican's list, and Salo, or The 120 Days Of Sodom, which almost certainly isn't.

Though you could make a case for Salo being a Christian film, as exemplified by the scene where the children secretly pray, after being told by their fascist torturers that uttering the name of God will get them killed.

[ 25. August 2015, 14:33: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Signs, starring Mel Gibson (?).
A case could be made that the entire Star Wars corpus (all six movies) is a tale of fall and redemption. The story is not about Luke Skywalker, it's about Anakin, his dad.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Clint Eastwood's Grand Torino : underlined indeed by the crucifixion position which the shot hero falls into, with blood flowing from his wrists.

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :

I'd nominate Scorsese's 'Mean Streets'. Charlie, the lead character is trying to live a Christian life while involved with various Mafia activities. He's trying to reconcile crime and being a good Catholic ends in disaster.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Vera Drake - about a back street abortionist with an almost 'pastoral ministry' - arrest and trial has overtones of Jesus's.

The apostle - preacher, murderer, repentant

The Man who sued God - theodicy

Tender Mercies - salvation

Shirley Valentine - prAyer

If you build it, they will come - vocation

Prayers for Bobby - conversion to a more liberal faith after gay son commits suicide

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - original sin, predestination

Cool Hand Luke - Christ figure

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

We recently watched Tyranosaur - an extremely powerful film about violence set in a Northern UK council estate. The main female character is a Christian; her faith is an explicit part of the story, in the way she interacts both with the main male character (a violent drinker) and her husband. The latter relationship starts out disturbing and gets worse - TRIGGER WARNING contains entirely plot-driven, non-gratuitous, sexual violence.

An amazing film which never (IMHO) puts a foot wrong - utterly believable, desperately sad, maybe a sniff of something redemptive, but no happy ending.

This film is a little more ambiguous about violence than the Danish 'In a better world' which is has less explicitly Christian content (perhaps none), but which speaks very powerfully about violence and revenge. An excellent choice to watch second, but perhaps not on the same night!

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

The Fisher King.

Two very flawed people helping each other find salvation.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Signs, starring Mel Gibson (?).
A case could be made that the entire Star Wars corpus (all six movies) is a tale of fall and redemption. The story is not about Luke Skywalker, it's about Anakin, his dad.

I would be more convinced if I had a deep sense of how Anakin fell - it seemed a bit superficial, a bit glossed over, and left me neither understanding how he became so awful, nor how he came back at the end. And, given the total awfulness, and the deaths he was responsible for, it all seemed too easy for him to be accepted back into whatever post death existence the Jedi arrived at.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

The Green Mile - an innocent victim of injustice who took the sufferings of others into himself and healed them.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Signs, starring Mel Gibson (?).
A case could be made that the entire Star Wars corpus (all six movies) is a tale of fall and redemption. The story is not about Luke Skywalker, it's about Anakin, his dad.
I would be more convinced if I had a deep sense of how Anakin fell - it seemed a bit superficial, a bit glossed over, and left me neither understanding how he became so awful, nor how he came back at the end. And, given the total awfulness, and the deaths he was responsible for, it all seemed too easy for him to be accepted back into whatever post death existence the Jedi arrived at.

Perhaps choosing a less horrifically untalented actor to play young adult Anakin might have made some of this work better.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Clint Eastwood's Grand Torino : underlined indeed by the crucifixion position which the shot hero falls into, with blood flowing from his wrists.

That's the most recent one I could think of. He certainly did sacrifice himself for others. I also thought the talks he had with the young priest were particularly good. Hey! A Christian clergyman who was neither hypocrite, nor pedophile! I loved that movie for many reasons.

I second, The Apostle.

I watch a lot of old 30's and 40's films on the Turner Classic Movies station and often notice how freely they mention church and Christianity compared with today's movies. The other night I watched, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter. Not exactly Christian but a wonderful movie about love for the ordinary people you encounter in life.

Posted by Crœsos (# 238) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A case could be made that the entire Star Wars corpus (all six movies) is a tale of fall and redemption. The story is not about Luke Skywalker, it's about Anakin, his dad.
I would be more convinced if I had a deep sense of how Anakin fell - it seemed a bit superficial, a bit glossed over, and left me neither understanding how he became so awful, nor how he came back at the end. And, given the total awfulness, and the deaths he was responsible for, it all seemed too easy for him to be accepted back into whatever post death existence the Jedi arrived at.

Isn't that a pretty good description of the Christian concept of grace? After a life of murder, genocide, and various oppressions, making a deathbed confession of remorse is enough to save your soul!

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Agree that the cruelest miscasting plus idiotic scripting made the entire SW epic disappointing when considered as a whole. Heaven knows what the new material, to start appearing next year, will do.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I have read that the deaf mute in "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" was a Christ figure.

Any number of Westerns and Samurai films;
Shane,
Seven Samurai,
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence
The Ballad of Cable Hogue
On some odder notes;
Being There
Lord of the Rings.
Field of Dreams
Life of Brian [Smile]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Reaching way, way back. The 1935 movie of "A Tale of Two Cities" with Ronald Colman as Sydney Carton. A marvellous movie, Ronald Colman's performance setting a standard for the portrayal of the complex Sydney Carton.

Colman plays the sinner and the sacrifice to perfection.

[ 26. August 2015, 09:28: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
I think you mean Fellini's 8 1/2. Pasolini directed, among other things, The Gospel According To St. Matthew, which may very well be on the Vatican's list, and Salo, or The 120 Days Of Sodom, which almost certainly isn't.

You're right on all three counts.

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
The one that always springs to mind is the original Wicker Man. Without giving away spoilers the Christian Policeman, played by Edward Woodward, who is the main protagonist is convincing and the ending is genuinely powerful.

That struck me as more of a pagan movie in which a Christian is the central character.

The theologian Wes Howard-Brook spoke at our church some time after the first "Matrix" movie came out and he described it as one of the most Biblical films ever made. It made a lot of sense in light of his work on the Bible, much of which emphasizes, as he sees it, a call to God's people to come out of "Babylon."

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

I'd think of The Warrior - a British-Indian film made in Hindi about an enforcer for a medieval warlord who resigns after being ordered to commit one atrocity too many. There's a scene at the end, while he's trying to do penance, that I think is a good example of grace.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

Two I haven't seen mentioned or maybe just missed:

Henry Poole is Here
Children of Men
Simon Birch

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Two I haven't seen mentioned or maybe just missed:

Henry Poole is Here
Children of Men
Simon Birch

(spoilers ahead)

Children Of Men was pretty heavy on the Marian allusions, though I suppose that could at least partly be a function of the characters(presumably Catholic) reacting to the sight of a pregnant woman in those particular circumstances.

Posted by Clarence (# 9491) on :

Apologies if I missed it, but Babette's Feast isn't overtly Christian but is brilliant in portraying grace.

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

The Lego Movie

The Son saves, frees and redeems his Father's creation. It's glorious. [Big Grin]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

OMG, now that's good.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Have we had Les Mis on here? Story of redemption I'd have said.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

Often times we read Christian themes into movies that may not be quite Christian. A couple of examples:

Star Wars--George Lucas is actually Buddhist and you can see a lot of Buddhist themes in it (though I would say maybe the themes are universal)

Matrix--actually very gnostic in its presentation--having secret knowledge and all.

A couple of movies I would nominate:

Avatar--deals with the stewardship of creation (many evangelicals panned this movie as unChristian but what do they know)

Dances with Wolves--Stewardship theme again, but also there is the theme of inviting the stranger into the community (something many first world countries are struggling with).

Spitfire Cafe--very much a story about redemption and restoration

Fried Green Tomatoes--Southern Gothic in nature, it addresses abuse and empowerment.

Cool Hand Luke--this one goes way back but it is like Godspell in many aspects.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:

Spitfire Cafe--very much a story about redemption and restoration

I think you mean Spitfire Grill.

[ 02. September 2015, 15:17: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Have we had Les Mis on here? Story of redemption I'd have said.

And also Law vs Grace.

When the musical was first performed in China, the cast had to have a crash course in the basics of Christianity, as it was felt to be so integral to the show.

Posted by Hilda of Whitby (# 7341) on :

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Randle Patrick McMurphy was a sacrificial figure, to me anyway--kind of like Cool Hand Luke, which someone else mentioned.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Randle Patrick McMurphy was a sacrificial figure, to me anyway--kind of like Cool Hand Luke, which someone else mentioned.

Personally, I think that McMurhpy was too unabashedly masculine and carnal to be a Christ figure, exceept maybe in the sense that he is punished violently for his alleged transgressions(though his death is at his own request).

If anything, I'd see McMurhpy as a pagan figure, maybe a Trickster like Prometheus. The hospital administrators and the nurses represent to me a modern, feminized bureaucracy, in keeping with the do-gooder ethos of establishment Christianity.

Granted, it's a bit different if we think about Christianity pre-Constantine, in which case, McMurphy might be the closest to a Christ-figure in the story. I still think he's a bit too much of a horn-dog to make a really neat fit for that archetype, though.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

I'm not sure about that being carnal rules him out of as a Christ figure as such. Being a rapist does.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Finding Nemo - prodigal son?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Shirley Valentine - prayer

Prayers for Bobby – fundamentalism as poison

Pay It Forward – altruism

Signs – loss of faith
The Straight Story – reconciliation

There Will Be Blood – hypocrisy

The Man Who Sued God – theodicy

The Tree of the Wooden Clogs – Catholicism and communism

The Tree of Life – love

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

Having just watched the new BBC version, I'm reminded of how unabashedly moral An Inspector Calls is.

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

Not watched it yet, but did it at school and saw the wonderful West End production a few years back.

Major Spoiler ...

There is a theory that Inspector Goole is a 'ghoul' or ghost - possibly the Holy Ghost, convicting of sin.

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