Thread: When the morning stars sang together (Astronomy thread) Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Is it OK if I start another Astronomy thread? I'm not sure if the last one drifted downwards or if it was closed at year's end. And where better to start one than in Heaven

It seems that the star KIC 8462852 (I think it's called Tabby's Star now. It's the one with the irregular dips in brightness; alien structures?) is getting weirder than we thought. It has dimmed 20% over the last 125 years. The "many big comets" explanation is getting less feasible.

Oh, and if you go out at dawn and look South (North for those below the Equator), you'll see five planets!
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
If you want to talk about astronomy the discovery of evidence that there might be a large planet past Pluto.

Interesting times.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

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Palimpsest: If you want to talk about astronomy the discovery of evidence that there might be a large planet past Pluto.

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Originally posted by LeRoc:
Is it OK if I start another Astronomy thread? I'm not sure if the last one drifted downwards or if it was closed at year's end. And where better to start one than in Heaven

It seems that the star KIC 8462852 (I think it's called Tabby's Star now. It's the one with the irregular dips in brightness; alien structures?) is getting weirder than we thought. It has dimmed 20% over the last 125 years. The "many big comets" explanation is getting less feasible.

Oh, and if you go out at dawn and look South (North for those below the Equator), you'll see five planets!

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Penny S: I wonder if it's a ring structure and we are seeing changes due to the change in angle of view.

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Penny S: Can't find anything serious as a source of interpretation once having read about the chap who found the historic photographic record.

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There are a number of websites talking about it but in all honesty, the answer we have right now is: we don't know.


PS A friend of mine just got a telescope as a birthday present. Jealous? Me??
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I've been looking out in the morning. Atmospheric interference, aka cloud, mist, and so on.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I just saw the Moon together with … I think it's Jupiter?
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
Jupiter at the moment, I think.

If you're fond of spotting the planets this is a good time. All five naked-eye planets should be visible at the same time (with a little cooperation from the weather.)

Here's a page from Sky and Telescope magazine with more info.
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
It was clear enough, and we were up early enough, yesterday morning to see Venus, the moon and Jupiter in the alignment. Little Mercury was too low down and Mars and Saturn obscured by thin cloud. It was still exciting, though.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Cloudy.

Again.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

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Penny S: Cloudy.

Again.

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Originally posted by LeRoc:
To be honest, I've never really seen Mercury. How easy is it to see it with the naked eye? I'd like to try sometimes.

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If you know where to look, it's very easy to see, in spite of being so near the sun. It is helpful to have a low place on the horizon where Mercury is rising (or setting.)
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Use a program like Stellarium to find out where Mercury is.

This page tells you when to look. Mercury visibility

Ideally, you need a period when it is highest above the horizon, and to get your eye in, evening rather than morning, because, although it will be getting lower in the sky, the sky will also be getting darker.

When you see it, it will be the only bright thing visible (unless there are planes about, but it won't be flashing or changing position), probably higher up than you expect. It's useful if Venus is about as well, because it will give you a line between it and the Sun to search along with binoculars at first - but not until the Sun is down. Once you've found it, it should be easy to see with the naked eye.

I'm not a lark, so haven't seen it in the morning yet.

[ 30. January 2016, 15:53: Message edited by: Penny S ]
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I've managed to track down this picture from the 22nd May 2007. Mercury over the Queen Elizabeth Bridge between Dartford and Tilbury
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Nice. Yes I can see it.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I hope that helps you get your eye in when you do get to look for it.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Yes, thank you. Now I only need to master the "get up early" part
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Or wait for the evening - that's an evening shot.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Yes, staring at Mercury in the evening while holding a glass of whisky seems like like a much better idea to me. I'll look out for it.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Not strictly astronomical, but I happened to be up before sunrise on Tuesday and observed the stunning display of nacreous cloud over Edinburgh.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Lucky, lucky you. I saw some in Hammerfest last year, but I didn't know I was seeing something special, and they weren't that good, so there won't be any flickr links! Just enough to say I've seen them, for my own benefit.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I have to say that I'm very excited about the detection of gravitational waves. A completely new way of discovering things about the universe.


(AFAIC, no problem with discussing clouds and other things you see when you look up here.)
 

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Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 
I'm currently in Indonesia on a holiday leading up to a total solar eclipse on 9 March. It will be my fifth but the experience never fails to thrill. Will try to keep you posted!
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

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Sparrow: I'm currently in Indonesia on a holiday leading up to a total solar eclipse on 9 March.

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I'm not going to be jealous.
I'm not going to be jealous.
I'm not going to be jealous.
I'm not going to be jealous.


 

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Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 
Don't be just yet, the weather so far has been pretty atrocious with several torrential tropical downpours. Nights have been better with some good views of the southern skies including Crux and the whole of Scorpio, and the unusual sight (for me) of Orion lying on his side directly overhead!

A couple of days ago we all got up at 3am to see the sunrise over a range of active volcanoes, and also saw Venus, Mars, Saturn and Jupiter strung out along the ecliptic with the moon in the centre!
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Nice! Crossing my fingers for clear skies.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Visit to Tromso Planetarium yesterday, with a presentation on Viking constellations, such as they are known - those writing omitted to use local names in favour of Latin, possibly because it was assumed everyone knew the local names, and also the Sami set. These were much larger than you might expect, as there is a huge reindeer or elk stretching from Auriga to (I'll have to look at a star map) hunted by Arcturus with a bow composed of the tail of the Bear, and various assistants as the sky rotates.
Last night we had an excellent display of Aurora over the ship, pretty close to being a corona. But the wind came up and blew my tripos around, so I had to stop taking piccies.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Why is everyone on ships looking at stars except me?

(Have fun!)
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Tripod, of course - and last night extended down to Pembrokeshire and Oxfordshire - I needn't have come!
 

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Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 
Well we had a fabulous eclipse. It was my fifth total solar eclipse and apart from the first one, which is always mind blowing to the "eclipse virgin", it was the best ever. Perfect cloudless blue sky, gorgeous setting between palm trees and deep blue sea. Three minutes of staggering beauty, a bright corona and some huge prominences, and a wonderful diamond ring to finish.

Roll on the next one, August 21st next year in Yellowstone!
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Nice to hear that Sparrow! (I'm a virgin.)
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
The eclipse that Sparrow saw, spotted from the other side. If you look closely, you can just about see Sparrow
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Glad to hear that you had a good view, Sparrow. All I could spot on my computer before it packed up was that there had been cloud! Obviously rubbish.
 

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Posted by SusanDoris (# 12618) on :
 
Le Roc

Thank you for linking to this. I'll read but not contribute. I am so glad that, when I was in South Australia in 1986 I went out just after midnight down to the shore, no light pollution, looked up and there, in a clear sky, was the milky way, a star-filled sky, and Halley's Comet, exactly where the local fast-talking weather forecaster had said it would be. Fantastic and something I'llnever forget.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Brilliant! I haven't seen Halley but I've seen Hale-Bopp in the spring of 1996. I was on the Irish West coast, so no light pollution and it was magnificent. I was surprised at how big the tail was; it seemed to fill up half the sky.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
There was a story going round the Physics Dept when I was at university (the veracity of which I can't comment on). In 1986 the Physics Society organised a trip across the water to the Wirral where there was a lot less light pollution to observe Halley's Comet. The story goes that someone went up to the office of (retired) Prof Fröhlich to ask if he wanted to join the trip. His response, according to the story, was "Thank you for inviting me, but I saw it last time".
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Well there are still people alive of course who in theory could have seen both Halley passages (although this professor was making a funny joke about his age).
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Intrigued by Alan's post, I looked some things up. When Halley passed in 1986, newspapers asked for stories from people who had seen it in 1910. Quite a lot of people reacted, all late octogenarians or nonagenarians of course. Their stories appeared in newspapers and presumably on TV; you can find some of them here. 76 years is a long time, but a portion of human lives are longer than that, so it is possible to be a 'Halley two-timer'.

Big knocks on wood here, but theoretically it isn't entirely impossible that I'll still be around for Halley's next passing.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
This reminds me of the monk Eilmer of Malmesbury, he who flew off the top of the Abbey tower and successfully covered a furlong before landing in an apple tree. In a short book about him, a scholar added that in 1066 he had commented that Halley's comet betokened nothing good because he had seen it before, and something bad had happened that time. Unfortunately, I think the scholar placed too much trust in Eilmer having successfully identified Halley twice, as there was another bright comet he could have seen, also followed by tribulations, and the maths necessary to be sure about two sightings being of the same comet couldn't have been done before people knew how to calculate orbits. But it's not impossible that he could have seen it twice.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
I checked the wiki entry for Prof Fröhlich, and he would have been 5 years old at the previous passing. So, old enough to have seen it ... but, maybe just a bit too young at the time to have remembered it (or, maybe it made such an impression that it catapulted him into a scientific career). Alternatively, a justification an old man gives for not going out on a cold night.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I was in London last night and I didn't see this
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I'm speechless for a moment.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Stunning.
 

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Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Just wow!
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I went to a fascinating talk over the weekend, at EasterCon. This year it was held in Manchester (so was called Mancunicon) and, being fairly close to Jodrell Bank, they invited several of the scientists to give talks. The one I went to was called Jodrell Bank Explores the Universe, with five astronomers describing their work. I had no idea that Jodrell Bank could join up with other radio telescopes in South Africa and South America to make a huge radio telescope. They're hoping to do exciting things with the event horizon of a black hole later this year!
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

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Eigon: I went to a fascinating talk over the weekend, at EasterCon. This year it was held in Manchester (so was called Mancunicon) and, being fairly close to Jodrell Bank, they invited several of the scientists to give talks. The one I went to was called Jodrell Bank Explores the Universe, with five astronomers describing their work.

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Eigon: I had no idea that Jodrell Bank could join up with other radio telescopes in South Africa and South America to make a huge radio telescope.

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Eigon: They're hoping to do exciting things with the event horizon of a black hole later this year!

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I hope they find something, it'd be interesting to hear more about this. (As long as they keep a safe distance from that event horizon )
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Yeah, that landing was cool.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
This morning, I was flying over Southern Africa, looking in an Easterly direction. Before the Sun rose, I saw what I think was a planet a couple of degrees above it. At first I thought it was Mercury, but that planet is only visible in the evening now. Maybe it was Mars?
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I've just checked it out in Stellarium - Venus seems to be the culprit.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Thank you, she's beautiful!
 

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Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :
 
Mars is still close to Antares, (and Saturn not far away?).
When I was at Matarangi a few weeks ago, where there's a clear view, the local astronomer pointed out how we'd be able to see Mars in retrograde motion between 17 April and 1 July. Alas, back in the city, I can see Mars clearly, but not even the outline of Scorpius, or anything bright enough to relate Mars to. However, Jupiter is brilliant in the N-W at bed time.

Matarangi in its earlier days of development as a holiday settlement was brilliant for sky exploration. Then it was decreed that we didn't have enough street lights for safe living, and they sprang up everywhere. There followed cries of outrange from those of us who wanted to see stars – and nebulae and globular clusters and other exciting things – and some of the street lights have been removed. At least I have a clear view to the east there, and can watch Venus rising in the morning almost till the sun is up.

GG

[ 26. April 2016, 09:58: Message edited by: Galloping Granny ]
 

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Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :
 
Yes, there must have been less light from the city last night, as the right-angled triangle of Antares-Mars-Saturn was quite clear. But other stars of Scorpius were very faint.

GG
 

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