Ship of Fools: Lazarus, come forth!

Thread: Lazarus, come forth! Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :

I'm not sure if this thread is in the right pace, but do shipmates think Lazarus would have been grateful to be called back to life and have to do his dying all over again?

Posted by starbelly (# 25) on :

At least he would have known what to expect the second time.

Neil

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Apparently he wasn't. I read somewhere that he was miserable and grumpy for the rest of his life (he lived to be 60-something). This was attributed to his having seen Paradise and been brought back from it.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Maybe it makes a difference how he died the first time around? If it was sudden maybe he was grateful to get a second go knowing second time around how to get ready to die, not to waste opportunities with loved ones and so on. But if he'd died slowly and painfully the first time - which doesn't really fit with the story admittedly - he might've been glad to have ended his life.

I think for the sake of his family he would've been grateful for the chance to be reunited. It doesn't sound likely that a glimpse of heaven should result in creating a grumpy selfish ingrate!

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

There is an enormous quantity of fiction about Lazarus and his fate. I remember that in The Man Born to be King Dorothy L. Sayers had Lazarus quite merry about it, laughing at all mortal ills because what was to come was sooo good.

Another major trope is that Lazarus is still around. Having died once, you know, he's not eligible for another one. This is in
Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M. Miller, for instance.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Apparently he wasn't. I read somewhere that he was miserable and grumpy for the rest of his life (he lived to be 60-something). This was attributed to his having seen Paradise and been brought back from it.

Another version has it that he never smiled because of distress over all the unredeemed souls he saw in Hades while he was there. At least, that is according to The Font of All Knowledge (which, to be fair, seems to have rather a complete discussion of the traditions that sprung up around Lazarus).

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I think for the sake of his family he would've been grateful for the chance to be reunited. It doesn't sound likely that a glimpse of heaven should result in creating a grumpy selfish ingrate!

Oh, I don't know; I can quite see that if he'd been plucked away from incredible eternal bliss and dumped back on earth, where he had to resume worrying about bills, his job, the health problems associated with growing older, etc etc, and nothing seemed half as lovely and life was distinctly imperfect, he might well be grumpy and depressed. Apparently he wouldn't talk about his experiences.

What happened to Lazarus after he rose.

Interestingly, having had a taste of the afterlife, he stuck with being back on earth instead of attempting to find the quickest route back to glory, although possibly doing so might have disqualified him from it. He lived on to annoy the scribes and priests (I guess they probably felt they couldn't argue with someone who'd been to the dead and back) and annoyed them sufficiently to have to escape to Cyprus, where he lived out the rest of his days.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

Another major trope is that Lazarus is still around. Having died once, you know, he's not eligible for another one. This is in
Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M. Miller, for instance.

Thanks for reminding me of 'Canticle for Leibowitz' -- I need to reread that one!

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

C S Lewis wrote a letter late in life, after nearly dying, saying that he really didn't envy Lazarus having to go through the process of death more than once. I don't recall the exact wording.
Lazarus has also inspired some striking poems: "Lazarus" by Elizabeth Jennings, which is lovely, "Lazarus not raised" by Thom Gunn, which is horrific, and "Lazarus to Christ/ Christ to Lazarus", by David Constantine, which is controversial and Dead Horse territory. I don't know how easy they are to track down. These are from quite old books.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

If Lazarus had the grumps having been woken from heaven's bliss I should think it was a double whammy because the poor blighter was a marked man second time round.
Guess there's no pleasing some folk.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm not sure if this thread is in the right pace, but do shipmates think Lazarus would have been grateful to be called back to life and have to do his dying all over again?

No, and (at the risk of getting Purgatorial) my overriding takeaway from this is that, contrary to a lot of the more excitable teaching out there these days, miracles (or as John's gospel has them, signs) are not primarily for the benefit of the immediate recipient.

There was a great song about Lazarus from some Christian artist in the 1990s, but I can't find it, so here's some (rather different but one has to say outstanding) David Bowie instead.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Colm Toibin had an interesting take on the Lazarus story in The Testament of Mary; he had Lazarus showing the marks of his illness and resurrection.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I always laugh when i get to that part where the leaders decide Lazarus is too big a draw for people to follow Jesus, so they decide to kill him (again). It sounds like whackamole. "Do you think it'll take this time?"

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