Thread: Chicken skin, bacon rind, fish bones Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
From the Inquiries thread, where I originally posted:

Periodically I buy cooked chicken portions which have some kind of flavour coating. Usually on the skin, which seems like rather a waste as I always remove and discard it.

It's since dawned on me that possibly you're intended to eat the chicken skin. I always assumed this was just left in place for cooking purposes and should be removed. Do people actually eat it?

Answers were:

quote:
Gwai:
I definitely eat the skin. I consider it a bit of a treat as it is less healthly, but I think it tastes the best, particularly with flavorings.
quote:
Huia:
I don't because a lot of the fat is found under the skin. I am less sure about chicken than other meat as my mother never cooked it (saying that it looked like roasted baby [Eek!] ). In my childhood chicken was an expensive meat, compared with beef and lamb, now it is the cheapest that can be bought here.
quote:
Brenda Clough:
I do. If I remove the skin for a specific dish I will save it, and put it (with bones, wing tips, spines, etc.) into the stock pot.
quote:
Firenze:
Chicken skin is the Whole Point as far as I'm concerned. It's like pork crackling, or the rim of fat on a chop. The objective is to get it as crisp and flavoursome as possible to complement the relative blandness of the meat.
quote:
Leorning Cniht:
I'm a huge fan of pork crackling (and disappointed that it seems to be impossible to buy a pork joint with the rind on in the US) but don't like chicken skin.
quote:
lilBuddha:
If you're needing to eat the fat for the flavour, you are not seasoning it properly and might well be buying the wrong meat.
quote:
Firenze:
'relative'. It's the contrast in texture and mouth feel as well as flavour. I would expect the meat on my Chinese style chicken thighs to be soft and taste of chicken, and the skin to be crisp and taste of honey, soy, five-spice, chili etc - and for the sauce to be a meld of the meat juices, rendered fat and introduced flavours.

I never buy the 'wrong' meat because I am well aware of the various farming methods behind what I see on the counter or in the chill cabinet, and what that is likely to mean in terms of taste as well as ethics.

But the more free range/organic/fed on honeydew the meat is, the more important to use every element - lean, fat, bone, skin - to the best effect.
So: chicken skin, pork crackling, fat, bacon rind, fish skin and fish bones? Or do you regard these things as mostly inedible, and leave them on the plate?

[ 24. April 2016, 07:18: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 
Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Crispy skin salmon is delicious and skin is wonderful to eat. Heat in oil skin side down first and let skin crisp. Turn and be careful you don't overcook.

Pork crackling is also wonderful. Fifteen year old granddaughter is a good cook and often cooks week night dinner for her father and herself. Somehow she had missed out on a roast and did one with pork a few weeks ago. It turned out really well.

I rarely use fish stock but would boil bones and scrap if needed.

Occasionally I will eat crispy bacon rind but tend to discard that. Grilled chops with crunchy fat which has browned well, especially in a BBQ are great.

I don't like beef fat although I remember my mother's dripping with longing. Clarified every week, it made amazing roasts and as a treat we would sometimes have it spread on toast wit pepper and sat. Mum was always surprised that we regarded it as a treat. She had memories of it as a necessity in the Depression. But beef fat on the meat is cut off by me and discarded.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Re the fish bones, I've known some people who actually eat them. And there are people who like kippers, of course.

Re the fish skin, do the scales not bother you?

Stock is a different matter because you're not actually getting your teeth into the bones. (I hope. Well, if you like it, do.)
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I posted to the original thread before seeing this one, setting out my philosophy that you should try and make the best use of all the bits, both out of respect for the animal, as an exercise of frugality, and - not least - because it yields tastier food.

I'll admit that I'm not totally Chinese about it: I draw the line at chicken feet. Nor yet 18th century - probably not doing deep-fried eyeballs or stewed udder any time soon.

But cultural conditioning aside, I aim to get the best out of what I buy.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
If you watch Masterchef or any of those cookery programmes, the cooks often use crispy chicken, fish skin or pork crackling as a separate item, both edible and decorative. Chicken skin and etc can sometimes be added to meals which aren't based on chicken or whatever as an extra crunch and delicacy. Roast chicken with a crispy skin is a joy.

I used to cut off and rend bacon rind down to grease the pan, then add the bacon and whatever else was going into the dish. Yes, we ate the crispy rind. It's a real irritation that I have to search out bacon with a rind now. This works using bacon as the basis of a sauce such as carbonara and a cooked breakfast.

(I like kippers, sorry. Although we bought some in Whitby last year that were inedible they were so smoky and salty.)
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I should say that the chicken skin on any portions I've bought has never been crispy.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
If I buy a ready cooked chicken from the supermarket the skin is pretty disgusting and goes into the stock pot with the bones. I try not to buy those chickens, although reduced to 50p as I'm buying supper on my way home from work late at night they are hard to resist. I suspect that the animal welfare isn't great and the flavouring on the skin is almost certainly attempting to counteract blandness.
 
Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
This site shows how to descale the salmon and to cook it. I looked here on iPad and site was messy but it may be fine on computer.

It and other sites speak of scales being caught in teeth.

I have never had that happen with salmon and honestly had never thought of it, so perhaps ours comes down here already scaled.

[ 24. April 2016, 08:49: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I should say that the chicken skin on any portions I've bought has never been crispy.
It needs to be freshly cooked.

If I am doing a whole chicken, and there will be leftovers, I usually strip skin from those portion so as to get the beauty of it hot.

The drying and salting mentioned in Lothlorien's link will also work for duck and pork. Finishing crackling under a hot grill will make it mega-crispy - but you have to watch it like a hawk, as it can go from puffy to burnt in seconds.
 
Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
I just cook the slmon skin down in hot oil. I added the link because it shows the salmon being scaled. Am planniing on crispy skin salmon tomorrow evening.
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
In many countries, it is considered a waste to throw the chicken skin away.

quote:
Firenze: I draw the line at chicken feet.
Brazilians will put the whole foot in their mouth and then they spit out the little bones like a machine gun [Smile]
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I;m a vegetarian. Stop eating all these dead animals. I would consider the whole lot inedible.

{I'll go away now. You can carry on and laugh about the veggie who doesn't know what he is missing]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Pork crackling you can keep. As with pork scratchings, I have memories of having to prise a compacted substance off my teeth.

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I;m a vegetarian. Stop eating all these dead animals. I would consider the whole lot inedible.
There's hardly anything that can be eaten that has never had the spark of life about it at some stage. Animals and plants die to provide food for a wide range of other living creatures; fruits, nuts and seeds that contain potential life also die for similar reasons. The whole eco-chain seems to consist of living things that eat other living things to survive.

Unless you want to live solely on milk, cheese and honey, there probably isn't a lot else that doesn't fit that category. However, that's probably a Purgatory tangent.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Umm - you do know that milk and cheese production involves producing calves (kids/lambs) to put the cows (goats/ewes) into milk?

Mostly dairy farms use sperm donation to put the cows in calf, and use mostly female sperm to achieve this. It was well known when I grew up in the deepest darkest West Country that farmers receiving their sperm delivery later in the day got more female calves, because X chromosome sperm is marginally heavier than Y sperm, and the jolting of the car separated it out. But it's not a perfect separation.

The male calves can't all go to make veal, particularly with squeamishness about veal production, or be reared for beef, particularly in breeds not used for beef. Somewhere in Gerald Durrell's books he describes his relief in finding a cheap fresh meat supply of newly born male calves from the local Jersey herds.

(I can't face eating beef after seeing what happened to those calves at market and in the cattle trucks driving away: I lived near what was the biggest calf market in Europe for a while. But I'm hypocritical enough to still drink milk and eat cheese.)
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Umm - you do know that milk and cheese production involves producing calves (kids/lambs) to put the cows (goats/ewes) into milk?
Yes, but I'm not discussing that on this thread. It's a whole separate topic in itself.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Chicken skin, bacon rind and pork crackling - all very high in 'bad' chloresterol so i avoid them.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
I grill my salmon skin side down and I eat the fish, and the skin was a treat for the kitties. Back when there were kitties here. [Tear]

Cracklin's! Good stuff if made correctly! I was lucky to have a co-worker many moons ago who made cracklings that were to die for.

And, yes to chicken skin if it's crispy. The same for turkey. OK, now I'm going to have to buy a chicken to roast. Which means I'll have bones to make chicken stock. It's all good!!!
 
Posted by A Feminine Force (# 7812) on :
 
Oh chicken skin - the best part!

My mother formulated a flavoring salt that is just divine. A few years ago I held her feet to the fire for the recipe because I was damned if she was going to die and take it with her. That flavor salt makes chicken skin ZOMG! so delicious!

I buy free range organic chicken quarters and bake them at 230 for fifteen minutes to get the skin to crisp up. Then I turn the heat back to 180 and bake for another 30 minutes.

I drain the fat off and keep it in a jar in the fridge, and use it for sauteeing relatively bland chicken breast pieces and veggies before adding them to the stock I make with the bones.

I get a lot of mileage from a half a chicken. But the skin is the BEST!!!

AFF
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
chicken skin, pork crackling, fat, bacon rind, fish skin and fish bones?

Chicken/poultry skin - I'll eat if its Chinese crispy duck, othewise no, but the children will eat crisp chicken skin.

Crackling - Definitely, but only if I make it myself because I score the rind right through the fat layer to the underlying meat and the lines of scoring are only about 4-5mm apart. I wouldn't touch those dreadful Pork Scratchings with a bargepole.

Fat - on the whole no. The exception is bacon, and then only if really crispy. Bacon rind ditto.

Fish skin & bones - go into the appropriate stock pot, same as meat bones.

I have encountered someone who puts bones and skin into a stock pot and doesn't separate different types of meat and the result is vile [Projectile]
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
I usually love crispy chicken skin, but as I'm on a weight loss diet I don't at the moment, it's very fatty.
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
When I was a kid, my dad, my brother, and I would go trout fishing and my mom would coat the catch in cornmeal and fry it up. I loved the fresh, crispy tails.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
If I am doing a whole chicken, and there will be leftovers, I usually strip skin from those portion so as to get the beauty of it hot.
Yes! This. Once it's cold and blubbery it's disgusting. It needs to be hot and preferrably a little crispy.

I take it chicken-skin-haters don't do drumettes? I can't imagine getting a bowl of fried wing sections and meticulously stripping the skin from each before eating it. It would burn your fingers for one thing.

Re. Scales:

When we caught salmon, we would descale them with the garden hose. A high pressure spray, sprayed "backwards" (tail to head) strips them right off. On trout, my grandfather taught me to descale by running a fileting knife across the skin from tail to head, essentially "shaving" the scales off.

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
When I was a kid, my dad, my brother, and I would go trout fishing and my mom would coat the catch in cornmeal and fry it up. I loved the fresh, crispy tails.
Yes! The crispy tails. My grandmother did them in seasoned flour, not corn meal, but the same idea. The crispy tails were the best.
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
So: chicken skin, pork crackling, fat, bacon rind, fish skin and fish bones?
Chicken skin: of course I eat that. Why wouldn't you? Especially from roast chicken.

Pork crackling: When I was a child I used to like that, but I don't any more. It's a quite unsatisfactory combination of chewy stuff stuck to unchewably hard.

Fat: it depends. Not neat, but mixed with meat, yes.

Bacon rind: seldom get that any more. I would if I got it.

Fish skin: only if cooked to a crisp.

Fish bones: only in whitebait.
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I can't imagine getting a bowl of fried wing sections and meticulously stripping the skin from each before eating it.
I confess that the only reason I can see for eating chicken wings is a sense of completeness. Or if for some reason when you're eating a chicken drumstick you find yourself thinking, what this really needs is more bones and gristle.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I can't imagine getting a bowl of fried wing sections and meticulously stripping the skin from each before eating it.
I confess that the only reason I can see for eating chicken wings is a sense of completeness. Or if for some reason when you're eating a chicken drumstick you find yourself thinking, what this really needs is more bones and gristle.
They're so tender and tasty and the yummy skin to meat ratio is awesome!
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Chicken drumstick or chicken wing? There's virtually no meat at all on chicken wings, they're just a waste of time and money. You'd be lucky if you got an ounce off them.

Chicken drumsticks are good, once the skin's removed. They're not very filling, but not half as unsubstantial as wings.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... there are people who like kippers, of course ...
I think I'd be one of them if it weren't for the bones - I just find them way too fiddly.

As for fat, skin, crackling etc., I'll eat the skin of a roast chicken in small quantities, but if it comes away by itself it gets consigned to the stock-pot with the bones. I'd prefer not to eat the solid rim of fat that you get round a steak, although it's better left in place for cooking as it makes it more juicy. I have fond memories of cutting the fat off a steak and passing it over to my dad, who loved it, and Mum asking me if I was trying to give him a heart-attack ... [Big Grin]

You can keep pork crackling - I'm not wild about pork anyway, and I'd rather leave the crackling for someone who appreciates it.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I'd prefer not to eat the solid rim of fat that you get round a steak, although it's better left in place for cooking as it makes it more juicy.
Trim it off and put it into the pan over a slow heat 10 or 15 minutes before you're ready to cook your steak. The fat will render out, leaving just a crispy residue. Drain off fat leaving just enough to slick the pan. Fry your steak, remove (with the crispy bits) and deglaze the pan with a splash of whatever you have to hand - wine, stock, whisky etc - thereby capturing the flavour from the fat and meat. Reduce and season if need be and you have a jus.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Chicken feet make a lovely broth.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
Chicken is advertised as the healthy meat and not even sold with skin on unless you buy a whole one here.

I am confused by the talk of salmon scales. They and rainbow trout (marketted as steelhead trout) don't have significant scales to worry about. We get them either whole and flash frozen, with the rainbows prefered because they don't travel as far. They are a freshwater landlocked fishy and look and taste about the same. We catch some very large ones in Lake Diefenbaker on the South Saskatchewan River. My largest is 12 lbs. The record is 48 lbs.
 
Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 
When I was at primary school I was very proud that I could eat the whole of an apple, including core and pips, leaving only the stalk.

The fact that I regarded this as an achievement should be an indicator of what it tastes like ...
 
Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I;m a vegetarian. Stop eating all these dead animals. I would consider the whole lot inedible.

{I'll go away now. You can carry on and laugh about the veggie who doesn't know what he is missing]
You are very welcome to stay.
However I do find vegetarianism unethical.
Eating something that hasn't had a chance to run away just doesn't seem fair.
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
There's virtually no meat at all on chicken wings, they're just a waste of time and money. You'd be lucky if you got an ounce off them.
I suppose if you like the taste of chicken and you're on a diet you can use up all the calories you get from eating the chicken wing on getting the meat off the bones in the first place.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
There's virtually no meat at all on chicken wings, they're just a waste of time and money. You'd be lucky if you got an ounce off them.
I suppose if you like the taste of chicken and you're on a diet you can use up all the calories you get from eating the chicken wing on getting the meat off the bones in the first place.
If you have to fight to get the meat off the bones, they're not cooked enough.
 
Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :
 
My grandfather had a farm. If you killed an animal you used all of it out of respect and for economy. So yes I would eat it all in some form or another. Fish bones for stock. Can not dream of a Sunday batch of fried chicken without the crispy skin. Scale fish eat skin. Pork skin best part of a bar-b-que. Pork fat added to beans when cooking. Yum
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
We have a Chinese fishmonger who buy their fish whole and then fillet it then and there. It means that if you ask for scraps for stock they will gladly give you bucketloads. It makes me wish I had more occasion for fish stock or room to freeze it.

The way to get your chicken to fall off the bone and be crispy is to cook it in a foil tent, then uncover, baste and ramp up the temperature for the last half hour.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Chicken feet are a drug on the market in the US, where there is not much appetite for them outside of Asian circles. The Bush administration adjusted trade regulations so that extra chicken feet could be shipped frozen to China, where they enjoyed a brisk sale and were all made into soup with black mushrooms, or stewed into submission with preserved black beans. As a result GWB is known as 'Chicken Foot' in Asian restaurant circles.
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I had not seen chicken feet for sale until about 7 years ago. I try to avoid the chiller they are displayed in as the look of them turns my stomach, along with fish heads and offal.

In theory I can respect the idea of eating the whole animal, in practice I only do this with whitebait.

Edited to add - crispy bacon rind was one of my childhood favourites.

Huia

[ 25. April 2016, 17:20: Message edited by: Huia ]
 
Posted by not entirely me (# 17637) on :
 
I didn't even realise you could eat chicken skin until I was about 16 because I'd never been given it as a kid. I sometimes eat a bit of crispy skin these days but not often.

However, I was even older when I twigged about eating fish skin and I will eat crispy fish skin happily enough.

With bacon I'll eat some rind if it's crispy but not much because I find it too greasy.

I do appreciate what people say though about not wasting any of an animal once it's killed.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by not entirely me:
I didn't even realise you could eat chicken skin until I was about 16 because I'd never been given it as a kid.
Deprived childhood. I tell you what I miss - gizzards. There used to be a bit of competition between my mother and I as to who would get this dense, chewy but tasty morsel.
 
Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
There's virtually no meat at all on chicken wings, they're just a waste of time and money.
If they have a really ferocious deep frying you can sometimes eat the whole wing past the elbow - skin, bones and all.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I'm getting flashbacks to the pigeon restaurant in Shatin - whole birds, deep fried. I had a friend who would eat the heads, beak and all.
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
When I roast a chicken, I put salt on the skin to make it crispy, and I put ginger and garlic on it too. And when the chicken is cooked, I take off all the crispy skin and eat it as a meal in itself. I live alone, so I have it all to myself! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Chicken skin: of course I eat that. Why wouldn't you? Especially from roast chicken.
Because it's the outer wrapping. The packaging. Its purpose is to protect the interior from exposure to the elements. Banana skins, nut shells, vegetable peels, chicken skin, fish skin, pea pods, egg shells, prawn casings, outer leaves on lettuce, the lot. Bin.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
This has me thinking of what my father called "gunk". If have a whole crab (boiled, i.e.. cooked), and you grab the head at the back, you can pull that off and in the nether reaches of that as well as in the centre of the other half between the gills, is the bits of seaweed, fish the crab has begun to digest, and apparently some of internal organs. I've identified bits of what looks like intestines. It's a lot more tasty than perhaps it sounds. It can be green, orange and colours in between.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Because it's the outer wrapping. The packaging. Its purpose is to protect the interior from exposure to the elements. Banana skins, nut shells, vegetable peels, chicken skin, fish skin, pea pods, egg shells, prawn casings, outer leaves on lettuce, the lot. Bin.
But then there is the zest of citrus fruit, which contains the pure essence of its flavour. Potato skins contain the plant's vitamins. Bread crust. Mange toute and sugarsnap peas.

There is no rule that says the outer layer is automatically inedible. It may very well be the best bit.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
True, but mostly IMO it isn't.

I might also add skin on custard, cocoa and hot milk etc to the list.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
But the skin on a rice pudding? Or the crust of caramelised sugar on a creme brulee?
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
With me, hot chocolate never lasts long enough for a skin to form [Smile] and the skin on hot-milky coffee is the main reason I don't like it. IMHO rice pudding, either with or without skin, is an Abomination Before The Lord™.

However, the whole point of crème brûlée is that moment of utter bliss when you break into the caramelised bit with your spoon* and get that orgasmic combination of soft, sweet cream and crunchy, almost bitter topping.

* It's the only pudding which it is permissible to eat with a spoon and no fork. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
At the school where I teach, they have stopped serving pork crackling, on health grounds. [Mad] [Waterworks]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Piglet is right about creme brulee and rice pudding.

I suspect we'll probably disagree about battered fish, though, as I usually leave the batter (it's usually way too greasy to be enjoyable but the fish inside is great). Tempura is altogether nicer, but you don't normally get that in chip shops.

None of this was ever a conscious decision based on a principle, it just sort of turned out that way.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Because it's the outer wrapping. The packaging. Its purpose is to protect the interior from exposure to the elements. Banana skins, nut shells, vegetable peels, chicken skin, fish skin, pea pods, egg shells, prawn casings, outer leaves on lettuce, the lot. Bin.
[Hot and Hormonal] When I was younger, I loved eating banana skins, especially if they were nicely brown spotted. Most of the people in my family love eating lemon slices, rind and all. I was pleased and proud when my granddaughter displayed the same enjoyment of lemons!!

I'm still craving chicken skin. Roasting chicken is on the grocery list in my car right now.
 
Posted by Landlubber (# 11055) on :
 
May I have the rice pudding skin please? I'll share out the custard skin between others, in exchange and maybe make candied peel from the oranges and lemons.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
You can have my whole rice pudding (see above). [Big Grin]
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... I suspect we'll probably disagree about battered fish, though, as I usually leave the batter (it's usually way too greasy to be enjoyable but the fish inside is great) ...
It can be (and yes - it can spoil an otherwise excellent F&C). I'd only leave it if it's so thick and claggy as to be unpleasant, or so over-done that you need a chisel to get into it; D. had one like that in a restaurant once - it really wasn't nice.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Dredging this one from the bilges to remark that I was taking the skin off some chicken bits preparatory to putting them in a yoghurt marinade and I thought Waste not... Spread them on a foil-lined tray while I microwaved a few Charlottes and made a dressing with oil, balsamic, seasoning and hot sauce. Dressed the potatoes and topped with shreds of the now crispy skins. Very tasty.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
With me, hot chocolate never lasts long enough for a skin to form [Smile] and the skin on hot-milky coffee is the main reason I don't like it. IMHO rice pudding, either with or without skin, is an Abomination Before The Lord™.

However, the whole point of crème brûlée is that moment of utter bliss when you break into the caramelised bit with your spoon* and get that orgasmic combination of soft, sweet cream and crunchy, almost bitter topping.

* It's the only pudding which it is permissible to eat with a spoon and no fork. [Big Grin]
I never eat puddings with a fork. What's it for? You only need a spoon.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Forking up yoghurt a bit problematic too. Or fool. Or syllabub. Or jelly. (OK, there are such things as ice cream forks, but they're really more sporks).

Forks are for desserts with pastry or sponge elements ISTM.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'm obviously too much influenced by The Sloane Ranger Guide (c.1982), which utterly prohibits eating any sort of pudding without a fork (using a spoon as well is permitted).

Showing my age a bit there ... [Hot and Hormonal]
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I have checked out some original sources (none of your catchpenny journalism here) and -

'Each place setting should include a plate, two large knives, a small knife and fork for fish, three large forks, a tablespoon for soup, a small oyster-fork for raw oysters and a water goblet.'

Elsewhere is specifies Eat fruit with silver knives and forks

Possibly these are additional to the nine utensils you already have.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Pancakes with hot sauces also benefit from a fork.
 
Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :
 
Anything that slides around on the plate or dish can be pinned down with a fork.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
' ... a tablespoon for soup ... '
Any opinions about the shape of the soup-spoon? Over here they have a habit of using what we would call dessertspoons (oval shaped) for soup, which D. finds very annoying: in his opinion (and I think I agree) soup-spoons should be round.

My parents had a set of cutlery which included both round small-ish soup-spoons and rather larger oval ones (which may have been the "tablespoons" referred to in Firenze's quote), but which Mum used as serving-spoons.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
Over here they have a habit of using what we would call dessertspoons (oval shaped) for soup, which D. finds very annoying: in his opinion (and I think I agree) soup-spoons should be round.
Of course they should be round.

I find it more annoying to eat cereal with a soup spoon than I do to eat soup with a dessert spoon, though.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Anything that slides around on the plate or dish can be pinned down with a fork.
If your dinner is still moving of its own accord you might want a really sharp knife.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Anything that slides around on the plate or dish can be pinned down with a fork.
Not a problem I've experienced sufficiently often to want to routinely have another item of cutlery per person to wash.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Heading vaguely back in the direction of Things Not To Be Eaten - my SiL was blogging about a visit with a friend to another friend in which they gave their hostess ahead of time a list of undesired foodstuffs, namely 'anchovies, offal, squid, gherkins, onion, sweetcorn and Tiramisu'.

To me, that sounds like an ideal dinner. How can anyone not like sqid, particularly in tempura batter? What is pizza/steak Mirabeau without anchovies? Or indeed life itsel without onions?
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I had a friend who didn’t like onions or tomatoes. Which immediately ruled out a lot of things. He was all right with ordering from a Chinese menu but Indian and Italian food were pretty much no-go areas. I had him round for dinner once and it wasn't a problem, but having to cook for someone who didn't like onions or tomatoes on a regular basis would really have been a trial.

I’ve known a lot of people who say they don’t like liver but seem to be all right with pate. Squid is fine except for the suckers on the tentacles.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Some people are very affected by texture, and particularly combinations of texture and taste. Pork in a pork pie, fine, fruit jelly, fine, jelly in a pork pie (same texture as fruit jelly, same taste as the pork) [Projectile]

With your liver/paté example, I'm the opposite, Fine with liver, but paté makes me feel sick. To be honest, most cold meats do. Ham on a pizza, fine. Cold sliced ham, [Projectile] . Bacon, yes please (not floppy though); gammon steaks, OK, roast gammon [Projectile] It's a weird combination of texture, taste and temperature.

It also features in the Eternal Steak Debacle; personally I don't doubt your rare steak has more flavour than my medium-well, but the texture of the rare makes me rush to gag.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
A friend and I went for steak frites at a food van recently. I bagged a table while she ordered, and discovered when the food arrived that she'd ordered two rare steaks.

I assured her politely that would be fine, and forced most of it down, but it was pink to quite red which I found quite revolting and I didn't finish it. I know it's part of an animal but that's a step too far for me, I don't want something on my plate that looks as if it's just been killed.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
A friend and I went for steak frites at a food van recently. I bagged a table while she ordered, and discovered when the food arrived that she'd ordered two rare steaks.

I assured her politely that would be fine, and forced most of it down, but it was pink to quite red which I found quite revolting and I didn't finish it. I know it's part of an animal but that's a step too far for me, I don't want something on my plate that looks as if it's just been killed.
Careful. The steak fascists will consider that evidence that you're a moral deviant, devoid of humanity and worse than Hitler.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
While I like my steak medium-rare (pink but not actively bleeding), I'd fight with my last breath for your right to have yours cremated, if that's how you like it.

Food intolerances and dislikes made bringing things to Cathedral pot-lucks something of a gamble: the following all had to be avoided:

tomatoes
shellfish
onions
mint
garlic

And of course, they were being avoided by different people.

Having said that, the garlic-haters (a married couple) only thought they didn't like garlic (because it's "foreign"); they happily devoured my kipper pâté, which tastes a lot more of garlic than it does of kippers, and in certain restaurants would eat garlic bread. TBH I don't think they'd recognise the taste of garlic if it jumped up and bit them.

I feel sorry for anyone who genuinely can't eat onions: there aren't many recipes for things like soups and casseroles that don't begin with the words "peel and chop an onion".
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I put tapas together for a crowd which included veggies, carnivores and all in between to be told one of the vegetarians didn't do onions or garlic. He ended up eating bread and cheese (and chutney! Yes, I know, it was homemade using windfall apples and damson plums).

I was not best pleased as I was on a pretty tight budget at the time and that bread and cheese was destined for various meals.

[ 01. June 2016, 16:38: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
We have steak every week or so as a Saturday treat (and an excuse for a really stoating red). We've had, though, to forgo having it rare of late. I find the best alternative is marinading, then cooking on a griddle, which seems to give a well-done but tender result.
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I have food allergies, and I don't expect people to cater to them. There is always something I can eat.

However, I like people to put out a card with a list of ingredients. That way I know whether I can eat the dish or not. If in doubt, I don't.

Moo
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
My dear Granddaughter who ate everything as a toddler, still eats everything, except melted cheese. She says the texture is disgusting to her. It's a shame she can't experience MiMi's (that's me!) fabulous mac and cheese.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Son #1 has a milk intolerance. We don't particularly expect people to cater for him, but there have been events and restaurants where he's been severely restricted. It's hard.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
If I have someone round for a meal I always ask them beforehand if they have any allergies or dietary requirements.

I've done this ever since I had a friend who sat there quietly refusing various parts of the meal (and went home a bit hungry) until he admitted with some embarrassment the next day he was diabetic, but hadn't wanted to put me to any trouble.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I have food allergies, and I don't expect people to cater to them. There is always something I can eat.
I have friends with food allergies. I like to know, so I can plan around them.

Maybe there's two things I might make, and you can eat one of them. If I know you're allergic to one, I'll make the other, and we'll eat Moo poison when you're not around.

Or maybe the way I usually make something contains something you're allergic to, but it's not really an essential ingredient. If I know it's an issue for you, I can leave it out.

Similarly for vegans and things - there are plenty of dishes that I often make that are vegetarian, but I tend to use butter in or something. Usually, I could use a vegetable fat and it would be fine, but if I don't know that butter might be an issue for you, I won't.
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
I make my IBS possible to live with by avoiding gluten and dairy products. I have tried the more likely variants on these two points, but they don't work.

If I eat at a friend's house, I can usually find something to eat, but I won't usually rely on being catered for by people other than family and close friends who are already well used. I know this is rather self-defeating in some respects, but I know how eating things that trigger my IBS makes me feel, and to me sharing food should be a celebration. Equally, however, I don't want to set out such a detailed set of requirements that people regret inviting me at all.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Equally, however, I don't want to set out such a detailed set of requirements that people regret inviting me at all.
I can understand that, but I suspect they would regret making you lasagne more. I know if I invited someone round for dinner, and happened to make lasagne and garlic bread, perhaps followed by apple pie and custard, I'd be quite upset if they sat there not eating because there was nothing that wouldn't make them sick.

Especially if it turns out that he would have enjoyed the curry I was going to make the next day.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Oh, I had asked about dietary requirements, I always do, and nobody said anything about onions. I am used to catering for food intolerances: my daughter can't eat gluten, dairy, alcohol, nuts, pineapple, shellfish and coffee currently. I'll have forgotten something. It used to be a lot worse, so alliums, potatoes, tomatoes, strawberries, oranges and chocolate were off the list too. That got boring.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I make my IBS possible to live with by avoiding gluten and dairy products ...
I was told I had IBS twenty-something years ago (when it seemed to be one of those newfangled illnesses that real people didn't get), and I was prescribed peppermint-oil capsules (which are now available over the counter in the UK) and they worked a treat. Although I'm now almost completely symptom-free, I get the occasional twinge*, and I buy a pack or two when I'm home, just in case.

I agree with Ariel: if we're having people round who we haven't fed before, I'll always ask them if there's anything they either can't, won't or would rather not eat; most will happily say so if there is, and I'll avoid it.

* although I can't really link it to any particular food

[ 03. June 2016, 01:50: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
I have a food intolerance that is bad enough for me to be hospitalised in my 20s when I ate something it had been smuggled into and I've now been given some epipens. I get very, very cross when people comment along the lines of "Oh, people are getting more and more faddy about food." I have to bite my tongue to stop saying "Well, would YOU choose hospital for the sake of a dubious cottage pie?"

One of the worst things in the UK is that there are now 'official' allergens which should be listed on food packaging but the things I mustn't have aren't on the list.

As for restaurants, I've been asked to leave one very expensive London establishment on the grounds that "It is impossible for us to prepare a meal for you without using onions or shallots - in fact no one can cook without using such a basic ingredient.". Every time I see the celebrity chef owner on the TV I get a childish urge to hurl a brick through the screen.
 
Posted by DonLogan2 (# 15608) on :
 
Mmmm, mmm, mmmmm. I do partake of these things, but in moderation.
On a similar note I also like duck skin to be crispy, but to remove the skin of partridge and pheasant as it isn`t as tough as chicken skin so will not crisp to any degree (and the skin tears too easily when plucking making skinning the preferable option).

Slight tangent; Woodcock is great eating and the traditional way seems disgusting but is absolutely the best way to eat them. It must be understood that the bird evacuates its digestive system when flushed from cover and it is then, hopefully, shot.
Just pluck the bird, make a small incision in the belly and remove the gizzard. Use a cocktail stick to close the little hole and the beak to skewer the legs. Cover with a rasher of bacon and roast in a hot oven for 15-20 mins and then rest for 10 mins. While it is resting scoop out the innards onto the roasting tray and crack the skull and remove the brain adding it to the "trail". Place the tray over a low heat and add a small glass of port to it and stir and mash together with a metal fork.
Once it is a gooey mush and the bird rested, place a slice of toasted wholemeal bread (or if indulgent deep fried in lard) on a plate cover with the trail and place the bird on top.

Sounds disgusting but it is simply stunning and I am now salivating at the thought.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
It's not now true of all celebrity chefs - Georgio Locatelli's daughter, Dita, is very allergic and he's now much more open to dealing with those with allergies. And Anthony Demetre of Wild Honey (and other restaurants) is a coeliac, so is, now, very good on gluten-free (although he blotted his copybook back in 2011 by saying on live TV he didn't manage to stay gluten free all the time, the backlash advised him of the health risks). Things are changing, slowly.

There are a number of London restaurants that deal with allergies - lots of lists around if you look. And there are the food chains like Leon and Eat. that list all ingredients and advise on allergens on their food lists
 


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