Ship of Fools: It's nearly Christmas.

Thread: It's nearly Christmas. Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I hate Christmas.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Merry Christmas, anyway...

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaha.......

[Snigger]

Posted by Steve Langton (# 17601) on :

I don't do Christmas - as a Christian it's against my religion....

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Langton:
I don't do Christmas - as a Christian it's against my religion....

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I do Christmas. As a Christian it's part of my religion.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I do all the fuss and faff before the end of October. Presents bought and wrapped, cards written etc.

Not because I love Christmas, but because I want all the nonsense out of the way so that I don't have to go in any shops.

We are having a take-away curry on Christmas day and I love telling folk, many can't comprehend us [Yipee]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I'm thinking about doing a nice round of shopping this Friday [Ultra confused]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Friday is designated Buy Nothing Day.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

I love Christmas. Celebrating the birth of Our Lord and Saviour by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, then spending the rest of the day with my family having fun, eating lots of food and drinking copious quantities of alcohol. What could be better?

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Bog off Christians! Give us back our decorated trees and our red-clad shamans and our midwinter feasting and revelry and drunkenness and -

Oh.

As you were.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I'm thinking about doing a nice round of shopping this Friday

Mad man.

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I do Christmas. As a Christian it's part of my religion.

Seconded.

I love Christmas, it's great! I love the privilege I have, as a minister, of being able to proclaim to Christians and non-Christians this amazing truth of the Incarnation and all the wonder that means for the world.

But I can do without:

1) The soppy, sickly-sweet supermarket/department store Christmas adverts; the ones with a fey, wet blanket interpretation of a great pop song that's supposed to make us all feel lovely and "aaah". If you're going to emotionally manipulate me into buying stuff at your store, at least be upfront about it: tell me how great your stuff is and how cheap it is; don't try and be all touchy-feely and, in the process, ruin great pop songs.

2) The fact that some people at church took it upon themselves to put up all our Christmas banners (including our "Merry Christmas, Urmston" banner on the outside of our church) last Sunday. Couldn't we wait until December or, if not, at least until Advent Sunday?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
The fact that some people at church took it upon themselves to put up all our Christmas banners (including our "Merry Christmas, Urmston" banner on the outside of our church) last Sunday. Couldn't we wait until December or, if not, at least until Advent Sunday?

Is outrage! - Nonconformists not understanding the Church Year. More to the point, having banners up for too long diminishes their impact.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

The only thing I despair at more than those who prematurely hail "It's Christmas" are those pernickety ninnies whose refrain is "No it's not it's Advent". [Two face]

They're in the same class of people who write in to Points of View to complain that an announcer was talking over the music of the end credits of a programme.

What most upset me this weekend, though was that as I end a day of Christmas shopping (which, on the enjoyment scale, is on a par with going to the dentist or getting caught out in the rain without a coat) I treat myself to a book, only the Foyles at Westfield had been closed and replaced with yet another pointless clothes shop. [Mad]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Langton:
I don't do Christmas - as a Christian it's against my religion....

How queer.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

But, if it's raining and you need a coat that clothing store wouldn't be so pointless.

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
The only thing I despair at more than those who prematurely hail "It's Christmas" are those pernickety ninnies whose refrain is "No it's not it's Advent". They're in the same class of people who write in to Points of View to complain that an announcer was talking over the music of the end credits of a programme.

That's me in a nutshell. And though I've never written to Points Of View, if I did, that would be exactly the thing I would write to them about.

Doesn't stop it being right, though: Advent =/= Christmas. [Razz]

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

That plus people who refer to Holy Saturday as 'Easter Saturday'. [Mad]

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I love Christmas. Celebrating the birth of Our Lord and Saviour by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, then spending the rest of the day with my family having fun, eating lots of food and drinking copious quantities of alcohol. What could be better?

Sounds like a man!

I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food, and don't understand why the women are so tired from doing all their normal work plus the schoolkids under foot instead of in school plus the extra work of decorating indoors and out, baking special treats, shopping for gifts, wrapping, trimming the tree, writing addressing and sending cards, taking the kiddies to pageant rehearsals; planning and preparing a special meal and doing the meal cleanup while the men are so uninvolved in the work of Christmas they don't even know what gifts they "gave" to others.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Friday is designated Buy Nothing Day.

Not in the United States. It's the day after our Thanksgiving, and now known as "Black Friday" because it's supposedly the day that retail businesses are finally "in the black" for the first time all year. Several years ago major retailers started opening before dawn with super specials, which are only good for a few hours. People have gotten trampled by the crowds. Now those "door buster" sales often start Thanksgiving evening or afternoon. The poor schmucks who work retail have to leave their family Thanksgiving celebrations and trudge off to work for minimum wage.

I wouldn't be caught in that madness for anything, so for me it is "Buy Nothing Day."

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I hate Christmas.

You have kids, don't you? I thought people with kids loved Christmas.

Christmasophobia should the preserve of weary folks like me who don't have excited little people at home to spoil....

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Oh please! We're getting perilously close to the Christmas is a time for the kiddies line here.

Whenever some numbskull trots out that line to me I tend to respond that certainly King Herod thought so as the slaughtered the innocents [Snigger]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Sounds like a man!

I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food, and don't understand why the women are so tired from doing all their normal work plus the schoolkids under foot instead of in school plus the extra work of decorating indoors and out, baking special treats, shopping for gifts, wrapping, trimming the tree, writing addressing and sending cards, taking the kiddies to pageant rehearsals; planning and preparing a special meal and doing the meal cleanup while the men are so uninvolved in the work of Christmas they don't even know what gifts they "gave" to others.

Clearly I'll be enjoying a big glass of Shut The Fuck Up while I do all those things, because I'm a man.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

L'organist

Well, we could distinguish between Christmas the religious festival and Christmas the secular cultural phenomenon. The latter is particularly kiddy-focused. But churches lean in this direction as well, because they suppose that making a fuss of the kids is a way of appealing to the parents.

That being said, I've seen fewer children attending Christmas Day services in recent years, which is perhaps a sign that the stereotypical family context emphasised by a 'Christian Christmas' is becoming problematic. I don't know, but I do I feel that Christmas needs to be re-invented in some way for Christians who don't fit into that kind of context. The demographics are changing.

[ 24. November 2015, 15:42: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

Our Christmas Day service is mostly for the elderly who don't like to go out at night. The young children come out in droves for our 6 p.m. Christmas Eve service, which includes the Church School's pageant, and older ones attend the almost-midnight Mass.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

I'll confess right away - I love it, with the exception of the "Christmas" muzak that infests retail establishments on this side of the Pond. I worked in a ladies' clothes shop in the run-up to Christmas a few years ago, and if I never hear Bing Crosby* crooning Silent night again, it'll be too soon.

For the rest of it though - good food, good wine, good company and good music - bring it on!

Sorry about that. [Devil]

* or anyone else for that matter

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I love Christmas. Celebrating the birth of Our Lord and Saviour by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, then spending the rest of the day with my family having fun, eating lots of food and drinking copious quantities of alcohol. What could be better?
Sounds like a man!

I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food, and don't understand why the women are so tired from doing all their normal work plus the schoolkids under foot instead of in school plus the extra work of decorating indoors and out, baking special treats, shopping for gifts, wrapping, trimming the tree, writing addressing and sending cards, taking the kiddies to pageant rehearsals; planning and preparing a special meal and doing the meal cleanup while the men are so uninvolved in the work of Christmas they don't even know what gifts they "gave" to others.

I tried offering to cook Christmas dinner one year. Mom was having none of it. She lives for that shit.

On a more serious note, fuck you for assuming you know how things work in my family. There isn't a single one of those tasks you've just mentioned that isn't shared by at least two different people - and usually more. And as for having the kids around rather than at school - given that both my parents are in their sixties and my brother and I are both in our thirties they're generally more than happy to have us there.

But I'm sure none of that matters to you. Just keep making your sexist assumptions about gender roles at Christmas.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I hate Christmas.
You have kids, don't you? I thought people with kids loved Christmas.

Christmasophobia should the preserve of weary folks like me who don't have excited little people at home to spoil....

21 and 23. Hardly little. And presents get expensive at that age.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Oh, they're grown-ups! I must've been thinking about something you said from ages ago. Time flies. But if and when you become a granddad Christmas might be fun again.

As a popular festival I do think there are times and phases in life when Christmas has to be less than fun. There's been a bereavement in my family, so my Christmas will be strange and solemn anyway this year. But I'll try to enjoy what I can, such as a nice CofE festival of nine lessons and carols somewhere.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
.
I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food.

Not in our house!

Mr Boogs does everything - including all the extra sauces etc and three different home made stuffings. We are having the whole caboodle on the 28th as my sons are both working on the day.

He offered to do another for just the two of us on the day - but I persuaded him to get an Indian take-away.

Of my 5 good friends who are couples, four of the men are the main cooks. Very 'foodie' and very competitive, they like nothing better than to invite everyone for dinner parties. When Mr Boogs does one he spends two days pouring over recipe books (his meal has to be better than the last blokes [Roll Eyes]

)

I'm a very poor audience for all his cooking adventures - I don't care what's in the sauce and certainly don't want to chat about it!

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

My kids always spoke longingly, of the glorious Xmas lights some houses in our area have. I always replied, "If you want it, you do it." And that was the end of it.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

Belle Ringer - permit me to echo the observations of Marvin and Boogie. You're sounding a tad harridan-ish.

I was visiting the aged father-in-law at his MHA care home last week, and they were getting out the decorations and constructing the crib. I helpfully explained that every time someone did this before December one of Santa's elves stabs a baby reindeer to death, and the carers have now taken to addressing me as the reindeer killer, to the bemusement of the elderly residents.

Way to not listen to what I actually said. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

I love Christmas.

It's the month of November that's hellish for me. Four years ago my brother fell ill at the end of October and the whole of that November was a series of dashes through to visit him and his partner and my mum with daily phone calls to the hospital... he was better... he was worse.... he was stable... he was unstable... At the end of the month he died. [Waterworks]

The following year my mum died at the beginning of September. The following few weeks were a confusion of busyness, sorting, making arrangements, clearing the house, settling my other brother, her carer, into a new flat. By that November I was wrung out.

I get through Novembers by planning Christmas, thinking about Christmas, looking forward to Christmas. I hit 1 December with relief and celebration. November's over for another year.

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I love Christmas. Celebrating the birth of Our Lord and Saviour by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, then spending the rest of the day with my family having fun, eating lots of food and drinking copious quantities of alcohol. What could be better?
Sounds like a man!

I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food, and don't understand why the women are so tired from doing all their normal work plus the schoolkids under foot instead of in school plus the extra work of decorating indoors and out, baking special treats, shopping for gifts, wrapping, trimming the tree, writing addressing and sending cards, taking the kiddies to pageant rehearsals; planning and preparing a special meal and doing the meal cleanup while the men are so uninvolved in the work of Christmas they don't even know what gifts they "gave" to others.
I tried offering to cook Christmas dinner one year. Mom was having none of it. She lives for that shit.

On a more serious note, fuck you for assuming you know how things work in my family. There isn't a single one of those tasks you've just mentioned that isn't shared by at least two different people - and usually more. And as for having the kids around rather than at school - given that both my parents are in their sixties and my brother and I are both in our thirties they're generally more than happy to have us there.

But I'm sure none of that matters to you. Just keep making your sexist assumptions about gender roles at Christmas.

I can get why you're a bit sore here, 'cos ultimately it does read like Belle Ringer was having a dig at you personally, but notwithstanding the fact that your (and Boogie's) situation is evidently not as she described, I can tell you I, as a parent of the female persuasion, recognise a lot of truth in it. I don't particularly mind Christmas Day itself, apart from the fact that I get to eat slices of extremely frazzled turkey accompanied by the ever-present roast veg, which is NOT my idea of a celebratory meal, and that I DON'T get to drink any gin and tonic, which would be an excellent thing to have on a hot summer's day in a house which has had the oven roaring since about dawn.*

But never mind, this is the way things are done at my in-laws house, and I do enjoy the catching up with extended family. What I really hate is all the pre-Christmas shit - which by this point in life has come to include the buying of presents. Let me tell you, you really can have too much of a good thing when it comes to nieces and nephews, and of course they're all individuals, and none of them are really into the things my kids are into, so I can't use that as a guide. Nor are any of them old enough to want money instead (I will be so happy when that day arrives). Then, as Belle alluded to, school will have a Christmas fair, for which you have to bake, a Christmas concert, which you need to attend, and a carol-singing evening also**. The kindy will have a Christmas party, to which you are asked to bring a plate, and a present that 'Santa' can give to your child. Then any and all other activities they are involved in also all feel they need to mark Christmas in some way more elaborate than saying 'Merry Christmas, kids, have a lollipop' (which most kids would be happy with), so there's those things too. While you're trying to do actual Christmas related stuff like choosing/buying presents and making Christmas cake and so on. And I don't even work full-time! I don't know how the mothers who do work full-time manage at all. It reminds me a bit of something a friend at the same sort of life-stage as me said a couple of years ago, with a big sigh: "Agh, sex. Just another thing on the big, giant, list of things I have to get done".

*Remember everything is bass-ackward down here at the bottom of the world and Christmas is in some ways a sideshow, with summer being the main event. Making roast turkey even less appealing than it already is.

**Those kids you see on X factor or whatever, singing adorably sweetly and tunefully? Or playing a tiny violin in the most precious manner? They are very rare creatures. Most small children seem to be about as melodious as a flock of seagulls squabbling over the last fish head.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Friday is designated Buy Nothing Day.
Not in the United States. It's the day after our Thanksgiving, and now known as "Black Friday"

Well, the date for "Buy Nothing Day" is deliberately chosen as the day after US Thanksgiving. It's a protest against rampant consumerism, also against the conditions many retail staff have to deal with. What better day to choose? The designation is international, even if it is inadequately recognised.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, if it's raining and you need a coat that clothing store wouldn't be so pointless.

Good luck on finding a raincoat that actually keeps you dry in any of the Westfield clothes stores (unless it's a sports clothing shop). Lots of fashionable clothes, not much practical or useful.

The only place I can find books in the local Westfield is WHSmiths.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

I fully support "Buy Nothing Day". My brother who lives in the US works for Walmart. So if you live near NY and shop that day please be careful.

My family was a bit like the one Belle Ringer described, but Dad got more involved as time went on, as did us kids. Now I don't do any food preparation on the day itself but go out to dinner with a friend who is also on his own.

I do bake cakes though, which I enjoy doing, probably 4 this year, and much smaller ones than I used to. I also make rum and raisin muffins to share at church.

Huia

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Good luck on finding a raincoat that actually keeps you dry in any of the Westfield clothes stores (unless it's a sports clothing shop).

Why would I be getting wet in a Westfield clothes store? Is there a leaky roof?

I gather from your post that sports shops are in a better state of repair though.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

posted by Alan Cresswell

quote:
But, if it's raining and you need a coat that clothing store wouldn't be so pointless.

Raincoats come from Burberry: any others are, IME, useless.

Expensive? Yes from the point of initial outlay, but they last for a very long time: my raincoat may be over 30 years old but it is still waterproof and it has worked out at less than £9 per year.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Bollocks. I bought Mrs Tor a drizabone. And she doesn't look like a chav in it.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

I can assure you I don't look like a chav in my classic trench.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I don’t think I look a chav in my hiking jacket. OTOH, I don’t care that much even if I do. You can pour a glass of water over it and it runs straight off.

Back on topic: the person who asked if my Christmas tree is up yet gets a suitable amount of eye-rolling. No it isn’t, because plastic Christmas trees are an abomination and all the people said amen and if you buy a real one in November it will have exactly three needles left on the branches come Christmas.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

When I was in Keswick I bought a fell-climbing jacket in vivid neon yellow. It is utterly impenetrable to all wind and water; I could probably be comfortable on the surface of Mars with it.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Sounds like a man!

I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food, and don't understand why the women are so tired from doing all their normal work plus the schoolkids under foot instead of in school plus the extra work of decorating indoors and out, baking special treats, shopping for gifts, wrapping, trimming the tree, writing addressing and sending cards, taking the kiddies to pageant rehearsals; planning and preparing a special meal and doing the meal cleanup while the men are so uninvolved in the work of Christmas they don't even know what gifts they "gave" to others.

Dear me, I seem to have stumbled onto Belle Ringer's tumblr. Anyone know why it says "Ship of Fools" up at the top?

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

As someone who spends most of the month of December frantically driving from church to church tuning organs, I absolutely detest Christmas. I have nine more tuning seasons before I retire; after that I expect I’ll have a better attitude.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Organ Builder: As someone who spends most of the month of December frantically driving from church to church tuning organs, I absolutely detest Christmas.

But doesn't Christmas mean that the tuning's done?

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

Of course, once it arrives you are correct. On the other hand, I’m usually in a state of physical collapse by then and it’s not unusual to be nursing a cold that I’ve picked up from some organist or other.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

Yes lots to do as always but slightly unreal as my dad died last week and there's still the funeral to come and stuff to sort out. Not sure how Christmas itself will pan out.

In this household Chriustmas is very much a pitching in of any and all hands that may be on deck. With Mrs M and all 3 Misses M working in the NHS and me having certain ministrial type duties, we tend to do parts of days not whole days. It's dependent on shifts, who might be around and what other stuff might be going on. I normally sort most things for Christmas Dinner on Christmas Eve afternoon, have tea, a short nap then off to church to hand out hot soup and food until late night unplugged at 11.30 pm (my acoustic set for Christmas).

It's no different from my childhood: dad workd on a farm, the bloke who looked after the animals always went away for Christmas and Dad stepped in. On Christmas Day I saw dad 6-7 am, 10am to 2 pm, 4pm to 9 pm. We did things in sessions but again everyone pitched in.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Bollocks. I bought Mrs Tor a drizabone. And she doesn't look like a chav in it.

Did you buy the hat and boots to go with it?

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lothlorien:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Bollocks. I bought Mrs Tor a drizabone. And she doesn't look like a chav in it.
Did you buy the hat and boots to go with it?

Trying to persuade her into a hat is really hard work as she's convinced any hat makes her look stupid. This is a woman who sometimes wears a powdered wig to work ffs...

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

Here is the hat.

Boots to go with everything are here .

While you are about it, get her a plaited belt to tie the outfit together.

[ 26. November 2015, 08:24: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I do all the fuss and faff before the end of October. Presents bought and wrapped, cards written etc.

I used to do that, then one year the dominant voices in the exchange group declared in December "no gifts this year" and I was stuck with two dozen gifts carefully selected over the past several months.

Years later when the same thing happened I sent the gifts anyway with a note that no one else has to do Christmas the way I do, but they complained that they had to send gifts if I did so I was a terrible person forcing them to send gifts to extended family. They each want to focus on just immediate nuclear family, perhaps because I have none I enjoy thinking about and choosing gifts all the kids. (Actually, what they've each said is I should send gifts to their own kids but no one else's so they don't have to send to the others.)

I was going to bake and send cookies this year, in spite of the current permanent ban on gifts, but one of the households does no sugar or sweets other than fresh fruit. What's a festive and mailable food that is not a sweet?

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
They each want to focus on just immediate nuclear family, perhaps because I have none I enjoy thinking about and choosing gifts all the kids.

Pick a child from Angel Tree (for children whose parents are incarcerated), find somewhere that does Adopt-a-Family, look for Toys for Tots drop-offs. There are so many children who would appreciate your gifts, and you'll have fun shopping for them.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I love Christmas. Celebrating the birth of Our Lord and Saviour by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, then spending the rest of the day with my family having fun, eating lots of food and drinking copious quantities of alcohol. What could be better?
Sounds like a man!

I have noticed in many households the extensive work of Christmas is done by women, the men just show up and enjoy a relaxed day sitting around enjoying family ad lots of food, and don't understand why the women are so tired...
fuck you for assuming you know how things work in my family. There isn't a single one of those tasks you've just mentioned that isn't shared by at least two different people - and usually more.
I can get why you're a bit sore here, 'cos ultimately it does read like Belle Ringer was having a dig at you personally..., I can tell you I, as a parent of the female persuasion, recognize a lot of truth in it.

Marvin, I did not intend a personal dig at you, and I'm sorry for causing you so much annoyance. Your phrasing is what caught my attention, not that it was you phrasing it. I hear similar so often, like the year I agreed in late November to join a church committee so long as it didn't meet until after Christmas, but the men decided to start meetings in December. Why? Everyone has free time in December. Right, they had free time (obviously none were in a Christmas play or concert, or taking Kiddies to rehearsal); their wives were frazzled. (The only other woman who showed up for the December meetings had no family.)

I did not say all men, I did not say most, I said many.

In many households creating festivity is primarily her job. Take the periodic pot pucks, for example. 95% of the food is made by the women, the men just show up. My estimate is based on the names on the "volunteer to bring food" list - rare to see a man sign up. It does happen, one man makes a delicious puff pastry spinach and cheese thing.

Public media commonly say in households with two full time workers, women still more chores than men do. Chores, when defined, includes more than just cleaning and childcare, but also yard work and finance management - the whole "what it takes to keep a household going." Yes things have changed a lot in the past 40 years; when I was a kid men (in my hearing) would openly boast of having never changed a diaper. Now a lot of men do participate in childcare, and that's so wonderful for all involved.

But there is still a lot of disparity on the amount of work done, especially creating festivities.

Has hell become so politically correct that it's "sexist" to speak of I see actually going on in my community, what my women friends say about Christmas preparations, and what articles still report about women and men and about of time spent on chores? Charts on who does more work

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Has hell become so politically correct that it's "sexist" to speak of I see actually going on in my community, what my women friends say about Christmas preparations, and what articles still report about women and men and about of time spent on chores? Charts on who does more work

No. But denizens have no need to be objective or see things in the round. If some of them (and values of them that include *me*) do the vast majority of the household chores, the admin, the gardening, the DIY and the childcare, can you honestly expect them to say "why yes, it'd be lovely if men did more work around the house."

How much more work around the house would you like me to do? Literally all of it? Fuck off with that.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I fully support "Buy Nothing Day".

I bought nothing today except for The Church Times!

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

quote:
If some of them (and values of them that include *me*) do the vast majority of the household chores, the admin, the gardening, the DIY and the childcare,

Aye, me too - and the shopping, washing and fixing the car. I'm still a bit shit at cooking, but I compensate with a man version of the kind of 'career' housewives have to get out of the house and make a token contribution [Smile]

But then as my mate says, 'you have it tough, you do; your wife won't stop going out earning money' [Smile]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
I compensate with a man version of the kind of 'career' housewives have to get out of the house and make a token contribution

I was a teaching assistant for mumble-mumble years. It made no material difference to my quota of household chores. Now I'm supposed to be working full-time (but at home), guess what? [Frown]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Went out to our local town this morning and quess what? It was rammed! Can't bear it. Managed to grab a couple of buys then came home.

Christmas is alright on Christmas morning. Other than that the commercial side of it generally makes me want to [Projectile]

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Never mind - the way things are going at the moment, we might be better off buying each other Armageddon presents......

I.

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Langton:
I don't do Christmas - as a Christian it's against my religion....
How queer.

I dunno - I also don't do Christmas. I don't hate Christmas. I get that it's a meaningful and happy time for many people, but for me personally, my own experiences of and associations with Christmas have very little to do with my faith, or with joy. Perhaps it would be different if I were from an Anglican or Catholic background, but I find all the contrasting conventions and values and busy-ness of Christmas confusing and distracting from my faith.

I do like the quietness of Christmas day. I like it best when I'm spending it alone, and I'm aware that everywhere is closed and people are mostly in their homes, and there is quietness.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

What Fineline said. The sheer quietness of Christmas Day afternoon is a wonderful blessing.....

......mind you, since Our Place started hosting a free Christmas Dinner for the lonely, poor etc. after Mass on Christmas morning, it's the quietness of the evening that I get to savour....!

I.

Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
Organ Builder: As someone who spends most of the month of December frantically driving from church to church tuning organs, I absolutely detest Christmas.
But doesn't Christmas mean that the tuning's done?

Ah, if only...

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Never mind - the way things are going at the moment, we might be better off buying each other Armageddon presents......

Ooh yes... The end of all things. A vat of red wine for me, can't see a voucher being of much use [Snigger]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

I was out downtown Sunday afternoon for a movie. I was outside waiting for a friend by a store that had started playing Christmas Carols outdoors. It seemed early. Then I noticed the song was Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.

The lyrics seem an odd match to trying to get people into seasonal shopping.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Ooh yes... The end of all things.

The End of All Things? I didn't realize that you were a Scalzi fan. But I agree - an excellent gift. Especially if you're read the rest of the Old Man's War series.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Never mind - the way things are going at the moment, we might be better off buying each other Armageddon presents......

Well, you could get some advice at "The urban prepper: Is it time to get your Armageddon on?" (Examiner)

Or you could go straight to Lehman's: Simple Products For A Simpler Life. It was originally a store and mail-order for the Amish. (Run by non-Amish.) They gradually reached more customers, and got quite an infusion of them for Y2K--Lehman's carries a lot of non-electric goods. Cool place.

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