Thread: Happy Holidays Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I've now received three cards wishing me Happy Holidays. It's Christmas. What's wrong with wishing people a happy Christmas? Why is that considered offensive?

Are we now supposed, in turn, to be equally offended by someone wishing us a Happy Hanukkah or Happy Diwali? And can we be legitimately offended by being wished a Happy Holiday?

At this time of year you can't go two yards without seeing tinsel or glitter or themed lights or sparkly hanging decorations. Nobody ever refers to them as anything but Christmas decorations. There's a sudden proliferation of Christmas trees in public spaces. Nobody ever refers to them as holiday trees.

Christmas is a festival open to anyone whether they believe in Jesus or not. It doesn't exclude anyone. Who are these people who get upset by being sent a card actually mentioning the C word and why should a simple expression of good wishes for the season be considered offensive anyway?
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
It seems more an American thing, to incorporate all the different holidays that happen around the season. The non-Christmas-specific cards in the UK used to say 'Seasons Greetings'.

I don't see it as a big deal - gives people a choice as to what sorts of cards to send to the different people they may know and who may have differing feelings towards Christmas.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

At this time of year you can't go two yards without seeing tinsel or glitter or themed lights or sparkly hanging decorations. Nobody ever refers to them as anything but Christmas decorations.
Around here they're usually called Holiday Lights.
[Frown]
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
When someone has wished me "Happy Holidays," I have usually assumed that they are wishing me a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year's Day. I realize, though, that some use the expression of good will out of caution, not knowing which winter holiday a particular person might observe.

And I say "thank you." Far from being offended, I am appreciative when someone offers me sincere good wishes.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I think if anyone wished me 'Happy Holidays' I'd find myself saying 'But I'm retired. My whole life is a holiday.'

I think l'll go with 'Good Yule' - but in Norwegian 'God Jul!' because it sounds better, particularly if you can synchronise it with banging some alcohol-filled reseptacle on the table.

Otherwise, it's back to 'May the midwinter festivity of your choice be a gratifying occasion'.
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
quote:
Ariel: I've now received three cards wishing me Happy Holidays. It's Christmas. What's wrong with wishing people a happy Christmas? Why is that considered offensive?
Who says they consider it offensive?
 
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
They wish me whatever; I say thank you. What the big fucking deal? Get your panties untwisted and go do something useful: Like, I dunno, Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, comfort the dying...
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
I don't understand why you consider "happy holidays" offensive. There are a number of holidays at this time of year, especially in the U.S., and I hope people enjoy as many as possible.

It reminds me of American GLEs who get all fussy about store clerks who tell people "Happy holidays", instead of "Merry Christmas" or get fussy about people who use the term Xmas ("Keep Christ in Christmas!") when X is the Greek letter for Christ in the beloved fish symbol. Should I fuss at people for telling me "Merry Christmas" before Dec. 25 instead of "Happy Advent"? Pleeez! Life's too short.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
The only people in the US who are offended are those who are vigorously seeking out reasons for offense. The War against Christmas people, mainly. They're the ones who complain about red coffee cups.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Ariel,

I wish you Happy Holidays.
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
I am not remotely offended by it. It's the good wishes that count. It seems to me that there are many more important things about which to get worked up.

Ross
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I think if anyone wished me 'Happy Holidays' I'd find myself saying 'But I'm retired. My whole life is a holiday.'
That is why it's odd for the expression to come to the UK (though I hadn't noticed that it had, but then I don't pay much attention to Christmas stuff - but there are still 'Seasons Greetings' cards, I believe, for those who want a more general greeting). Holiday in the US refers to specific celebratory days, like Thanksgiving, or Christmas or Hanukkah. But in the UK, it just means time off work/school - vacation. (I'm assuming you're in the UK, Ariel, or at least not in America, because from what I observe online, Americans do talk about holiday trees).

It's always been the norm here in the UK, from what I've observed, that if you work/study in a school or a college, where you have a couple of weeks off for the Christmas holidays (in the UK meaning of the word hoilday) you might say to your colleagues/fellow students both 'Enjoy the holidays' to mean the time off, and 'Merry Christmas' to mean specifically Christmas part of it. They are not mutually exclusive.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I first spotted it here in the UK in the cinema, probably along with the jolly Coke train of lorries in the advertisements. It was grating, because - puts on "Brief Encounter" voice - it has not been a British way of speaking.

But not so grating as all the shops labelling shelves of the sort of thing you get for people you have to give something to and have run out of ideas for as "Gifting". And the radio. Everybody is at it. Who started it, and why does everyone go along with it? What's wrong with "giving"? Or "gifts"?

Grump, grump, grouch, bah humbug.

[ 10. December 2015, 21:20: Message edited by: Penny S ]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
We need a Get Off My Lawn! board, it would seem.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


Christmas is a festival open to anyone whether they believe in Jesus or not. It doesn't exclude anyone. Who are these people who get upset by being sent a card actually mentioning the C word and why should a simple expression of good wishes for the season be considered offensive anyway?
Why indeed. But if you want to be offended, don't let me stop you. To quote Mrs Mopp of the wartime show ITMA "It's only being cheerful as keeps me going".
 
Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The only people in the US who are offended are those who are vigorously seeking out reasons for offense.
And retail workers who aren't so much offended as annoyed by the fact they're being given a script that requires them to say Happy Holidays even as they bag your last minute gifts on Christmas Eve.

And other people who aren't so much offended as annoyed by syncreticism and don't understand why everyone can't go around wishing everyone a Positive Holy Day and everyone who doesn't celebrate that particular Holy Day can't interpret that to mean "I wish you well."
 
Posted by romanlion (# 10325) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The only people in the US who are offended are those who are vigorously seeking out reasons for offense.
That really narrows it down...
 
Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on :
 
Ya' know wikipedia says the term "happy holidays" has been in use for the Christmas season since at least the 1890s, though it may have picked up steam in 1942 with the Irving Berlin song Happy Holiday. It certainly isn't anything new in any case, and I'm at a loss why there's been, in recent years, so much controversy about it.

[ 11. December 2015, 01:39: Message edited by: Nicolemr ]
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
There are a gang of morons here in the US who are determined to prove that Christianity is under attack. It is tough, since churches get tax breaks and a vast majority of the populace claims to be Christian. Neverthless, they constantly seek for cause. And they've announced that using 'Happy Holidays' is a move (by mysterious conspirators) to destroy Christmas. Which you could not do with nuclear warheads, really. But these people are not members of the reality-based community.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
(I'm assuming you're in the UK, Ariel, or at least not in America, because from what I observe online, Americans do talk about holiday trees).
Perhaps Americans do somewhere, but I've never heard anyone talk about holiday trees.

But I do see your point on the difference in the British use of "holiday."
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
It certainly isn't anything new in any case, and I'm at a loss why there's been, in recent years, so much controversy about it.
'cause there is an attack on Christmas! Christians shall soon be rounded up and put into camps. And don't get me started on the Americanisation of Britain... [Disappointed]
We shall soon all be Godless American Communist Muslim immigrants living on the dole and it will be the fault of those like you who fail in their vigilance.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
We need a Get Off My Lawn! board, it would seem.
I thought this *was* the Get Off My Lawn! board.

We all certainly need to get off the thread, because Alan won it several posts back.
 
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
If you look at a display of 19th century Xmas cards you will note that even the dear Queen used cards saying Seasons greetings.

Meilleurs voeux is still common in French Canada and has been for longer than I have been alive.

That's Season's greeting for the language challenged.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Otherwise, it's back to 'May the midwinter festivity of your choice be a gratifying occasion'.
I tend to use my own version of that, unless I have a pretty good idea that the person is ok with *some* sort of Christmas.

More or less the same with cards. I tend to go with cards that are quietly spiritual, but don't necessarily hit you over the head with the manger. Works well, and I don't have to buy so many different kinds of card. I may get something special for a Pagan friend, which is both fine and fun. And I've had to deal with people who would be mortally offended if they didn't get a Properly Christian Christmas Card (tm). It was a lot easier to just get them one.
 
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Christmas is a festival open to anyone whether they believe in Jesus or not. It doesn't exclude anyone. Who are these people who get upset by being sent a card actually mentioning the C word and why should a simple expression of good wishes for the season be considered offensive anyway?
I don't celebrate Christmas. If wished a Merry Christmas I usually thank the person or say Happy Holidays. While it be inclusive in some quarters, I don't like the people who think it should be mandatory. People like you who demand that everyone say "Merry Christmas" instead of a phrase of good will that is compatible with their own religious practice or lack of it.
 
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :
 
I hate all these newfangled things usurping perfectly good old ones. Keep your stinking paws off of my Winter Solstice Saturnalia, you damn dirty Christians.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
We need a Get Off My Lawn! board, it would seem.
I thought this *was* the Get Off My Lawn! board.
Hmmmph. Please use the pavements.

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

We all certainly need to get off the thread, because Alan won it several posts back.
As if that ever ended a thread. It would have been a nice, neat and complete, yes, but not likely.

[ 11. December 2015, 07:02: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I don't celebrate Christmas. If wished a Merry Christmas I usually thank the person or say Happy Holidays. While it be inclusive in some quarters, I don't like the people who think it should be mandatory. People like you who demand that everyone say "Merry Christmas" instead of a phrase of good will that is compatible with their own religious practice or lack of it.
December 25th is widely understood to be Christmas, whether you like it or not. If you choose to disregard that, that's your decision. I don't have a lot of time for people who think that referring to a specific festival by its actual name is wrong and offensive. What I am asking is, who actually finds it offensive to hear it called Christmas? Because there is an accepted impression that it will upset some elements of the population who aren't Christian, but I have yet to meet anyone who actually feels that way. I don't currently have any religious faith myself but the season is what it is.

It's also inconsistent because nobody seems to do this for other festivals like Easter or Bank Holidays or Diwali.

Anyway, Happy Holidays is a nice bland all-purpose generic greeting that has no overtones of anything at all. Having been wished it a few times so far, I can keep it to apply equally to the New Year, Easter, Halloween, Diwali, the end of Ramadan, my birthday, and any day off I might have throughout the year.
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
quote:
Ariel: I don't have a lot of time for people who think that referring to a specific festival by its actual name is wrong and offensive.
Someone who wishes you 'Happy Holidays' doesn't always do that because (s)he finds referring to Christmas offensive, you stupid cunt.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Rook--

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I hate all these newfangled things usurping perfectly good old ones. Keep your stinking paws off of my Winter Solstice Saturnalia, you damn dirty Christians.
Iō Sāturnālia Turris et Corve!

("Joyous Saturnalia (to) Rook (chess piece) and Rook (bird)." Not sure which derivation is appropriate.)
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
(To LeRoc:) Yes, I know that, but, for the hard of understanding, which you appear to be, I will repeat it again: there are apparently some people who do. That is what I am complaining about. Is that clear enough for you?

[ 11. December 2015, 08:02: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
quote:
Ariel: (To LeRoc:) Yes, I know that, but, for the hard of understanding, which you appear to be, I will repeat it again: there are apparently some people who do. That is what I am complaining about. Is that clear enough for you?
You're apparently unable to formulate well what you're complaining about.

In your OP you complained about people sending you cards with 'Happy Holidays' on it. Then you concluded that they were offended by Christmas. That's the first paragraph of your OP.

This is mindboggingly stupid. This is someone who doesn't know which end of a cow the shit comes out stupid. When people send a card with 'Happy Holidays' on it, it doesn't mean that they're offended by Christmas.

You haven't given us examples yet of people who are actually offended by Christmas. So this whole thread is, just like a lot of what you post on the Ship, a load of crap.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


Christmas is a festival open to anyone whether they believe in Jesus or not. It doesn't exclude anyone. Who are these people who get upset by being sent a card actually mentioning the C word and why should a simple expression of good wishes for the season be considered offensive anyway?
Why indeed. But if you want to be offended, don't let me stop you. To quote Mrs Mopp of the wartime show ITMA "It's only being cheerful as keeps me going".
My mistake. It wasn't Mrs Mopp but the even more appositely named Mona Lott.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Dunno about elsewhere. But American "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays!" cards are handy in two ways: you don't have to know the beliefs/celebrations of the recipients; and it's not a major disaster if you don't get them in the mail on time, because they're good for New Year's, too.

Businesses often send these more generic/inclusive greetings.

Ariel, I know that this is Hell, but I don't think I've ever seen you this angry in all my time on the Ship.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


Christmas is a festival open to anyone whether they believe in Jesus or not. It doesn't exclude anyone. Who are these people who get upset by being sent a card actually mentioning the C word and why should a simple expression of good wishes for the season be considered offensive anyway?
Why indeed. But if you want to be offended, don't let me stop you. To quote Mrs Mopp of the wartime show ITMA "It's only being cheerful as keeps me going".
My mistake. It wasn't Mrs Mopp but the even more appositely named Mona Lott.
And she, consciously or otherwise, was quoting Bairnsfather's Ole Bill, and before that a Punch cartoon of 1916 called "The Pes-Optimists" - I used to have it on my cabin wall at sea.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
You haven't given us examples yet of people who are actually offended by Christmas.
[brick wall] That's what I'm asking for. I wonder whether these people really exist, or whether this is just one of those urban myths, like various health and safety rules that stop people doing reasonable things that they've always done, Just In Case. I suspect the latter, as nobody so far has managed to find any examples.
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
quote:
Ariel: [brick wall] That's what I'm asking for.
No, that's not what you've been asking for. When you ask "What's wrong with wishing people a happy Christmas? Why is that considered offensive?" in the first paragraph of your OP, you've already asserted that there are people who find Christmas offensive.

Are you going to formulate a coherent post of what the fuck it is you're on about, or is that beyond you?
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
I just bought some Christmas cards today - didn't see any 'Happy Holidays', but quite a few say 'Winter Wishes'. But then they also say 'Happy Christmas' inside, so they're not mutually exclusive. I quite like 'winter wishes'. It alliterates well, and is broad enough to cover everyone, really (well, except friends in Australia and New Zealand!).

I actually have quite a few American friends who prefer 'Happy Holidays' to 'Merry Christmas'. It's not a question of taking great offence at 'Merry Christmas', but more that they know people from a variety of backgrounds and not everyone celebrates Christmas, and they prefer to have a non-Christmas-specific greeting. A few of them are Jewish. They are not angry at being wished a Merry Christmas, but they would like to get away from Christmas being seen as the default, and for people to acknowledge the variety of other holidays celebrated. That makes sense to me.
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
(To LeRoc:) Yes, I know that, but, for the hard of understanding, which you appear to be, I will repeat it again: there are apparently some people who do. That is what I am complaining about. Is that clear enough for you?
If you don't even know any people who are offended by being wished a Merry Christmas, why does it bother you that apparently such people exist? There are always people who take offence at all kinds of little things - they will always exist. If you don't know them, that's a blessing, surely!
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
As examples are wanted, I knew one American woman online once who took great offence at Christmas, and all sorts of other things. It was on an online community, and there was a Christmas tree competition, and she made a big deal about how this excluded non-Christians, and was offensive to her as she was from a Jewish background. No one else was offended, despite the fact that there were plenty of non-Christians on the site. She insisted that non-Christians should be offended, and she was actually offended that they weren't. She was insistent that only Christians celebrate Christmas and have Christmas trees, and didn't believe me when I told her that I have Muslim friends who love celebrating Christmas, because, as they say, 'Any excuse for a party!'

But this was a woman who was offended at all sorts of things. She didn't have many friends because everyone offended her. She was friends with me briefly and I got fed up of her taking offence at everything, so I didn't stay friends with her. She is the only person I know of who is actively offended by Christmas.
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
Ariel-
Your OP is nothing like what you now say you want, hence the confusion. Have a nice hot toddy, curl up with some Christmas Carols and relax.

PS - Happy Holidays! [Devil]
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
They may have just bought the ones with the nice picture on the front and forgot to check what the message inside was. And then, having discovered it didn't say what they expected, weren't wasting the cards.

It's what I'd do. It wouldn't occur to me that people would be offended / angry about the message inside the card. Isn't the fact I'd been bothered to write one enough?! Writing cards takes ages. The struggle is real and all that.

Tubbs
 
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
They may have just bought the ones with the nice picture on the front and forgot to check what the message inside was. And then, having discovered it didn't say what they expected, weren't wasting the cards.
I've had this problem before. I made sure to write 'Merry Christmas' inside.

I was wished Merry Christmas by an automated checkout today. I didn't reply.
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
They may have just bought the ones with the nice picture on the front and forgot to check what the message inside was. And then, having discovered it didn't say what they expected, weren't wasting the cards.
I've had this problem before. I made sure to write 'Merry Christmas' inside.

I was wished Merry Christmas by an automated checkout today. I didn't reply.
I may have worked out who on my list was least / most likely to mind and sent accordingly. [Two face]

I prefered "Thank you for shopping at Tesco".

Tubbs

[ 11. December 2015, 14:28: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
 
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I prefered "Thank you for shopping at Tesco".

Tubbs
To be fair, anything is better than 'unexpected item in the baggage area'.
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I prefered "Thank you for shopping at Tesco".

Tubbs
To be fair, anything is better than 'unexpected item in the baggage area'.
Have you scanned your ... card? [brick wall]

Tubbs
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I think Ariel has a point - there seems to be a reluctance, possibly especially in the media and public bodies, to wish people "merry Christmas" because of a perceived possibility of offending the sensibilities of those who don't celebrate it. Some of the TV chefs here, for instance, will talk about a recipe being great "around the holidays", which does rankle a bit as it tends to sound contrived, and it's patently obvious that they mean "Christmas".

Many of my colleagues don't celebrate Christmas in the same sense that I do (some because they're of other faiths, some because they're of none). They all join in enthusiastically with the celebrations and parties, and when a toast is proposed, I'm happy to say "Merry Christmas or whatever you're celebrating". I've never seen any of them look even remotely offended.

[ 11. December 2015, 15:00: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
you scanned your ... card? [brick wall]

With that ever-so-slight overtone of reproach. Though you could try screaming back 'No I didn't! Because it said Happy Holidays! If I was on holiday I wouldn't be standing here with flaming carrier bags full of tinselled crap and a fucking frozen turkey bloody ton of sprouts and parsnips and spuds all waiting for me to magic up in the kitchen like I'm bloody Nigella Oliver I would be on a beach somewhere now read the barcode on the sodding brandy willya and let me out of here!'

It could gather quite a crowd.
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Firenze [Overused]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Are you going to formulate a coherent post of what the fuck it is you're on about
... No. It's far more fun watching you get entangled in it. [Big Grin] Thank you for the entertainment.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
I was wished Merry Christmas by an automated checkout today. I didn't reply.
I heard a rumour that they were being programmed to say "Ho Ho Ho." Did it actually do this?
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
That would be offensive to sex workers.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I think Ariel has a point - there seems to be a reluctance, possibly especially in the media and public bodies, to wish people "merry Christmas" because of a perceived possibility of offending the sensibilities of those who don't celebrate it. Some of the TV chefs here, for instance, will talk about a recipe being great "around the holidays", which does rankle a bit as it tends to sound contrived, and it's patently obvious that they mean "Christmas".

Many of my colleagues don't celebrate Christmas in the same sense that I do (some because they're of other faiths, some because they're of none). They all join in enthusiastically with the celebrations and parties, and when a toast is proposed, I'm happy to say "Merry Christmas or whatever you're celebrating". I've never seen any of them look even remotely offended.
Obvious they mean Christmas? Yes, it is the dominant celebration around this time, but it is not the only one.
Office Christmas parties aren't generally offencive because Christianity is part of the established culture in a way that other religions are not.
ISTM, Happy Holidays is meant to be inclusive, not to avoid offence.

Ariel,
Re-reading your OP, you display no personal angst. Indeed, were it to have appeared in Purg, it would likely not have engendered the same responses it has here. Which begs the question of why you chose to drop it in Hell, you naughty Sprite. I don't think you can expect to be released in two days.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I heard a rumour that they were being programmed to say "Ho Ho Ho." Did it actually do this?
Like this?
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
you scanned your ... card? [brick wall]

With that ever-so-slight overtone of reproach. Though you could try screaming back 'No I didn't! Because it said Happy Holidays! If I was on holiday I wouldn't be standing here with flaming carrier bags full of tinselled crap and a fucking frozen turkey bloody ton of sprouts and parsnips and spuds all waiting for me to magic up in the kitchen like I'm bloody Nigella Oliver I would be on a beach somewhere now read the barcode on the sodding brandy willya and let me out of here!'

It could gather quite a crowd.
I'd just hope I'd get my phone out in time. The YouTube footage would be gold

Tubbs
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Piglet--

Were the TV chefs you mentioned American, or at least on American shows? Because "around the holidays" is normal here.

Re various posts about people taking offense: some people, when offended, don't show it in any obvious way--especially if it's a really personal offense (e.g. they don't celebrate Christmas in any way, shape, or form because they were abused by clergy), or the root of the offense is so obvious that the offender must be either clueless or malicious.

Someone who seems unoffended may just have good manners. Or doesn't want to start a rumble indoors, and it's too cold to take it outside.
 
Posted by Crœsos (# 238) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
December 25th is widely understood to be Christmas, whether you like it or not.
And yet you're horribly offended when someone doesn't wish you a "Merry Christmas" more than two weeks in advance? Just another example of the "War on Advent". [Big Grin]

[ 11. December 2015, 20:43: Message edited by: Crœsos ]
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Were the TV chefs you mentioned American, or at least on American shows? Because "around the holidays" is normal here.
"The holiday season" is also heard a lot, meaning the five weeks from Thanksgiving through New Year's Day, which also includes Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and the Winter Solstice, as well as Christmas.
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I prefered "Thank you for shopping at Tesco".

Tubbs
To be fair, anything is better than 'unexpected item in the baggage area'.
The new version of this in my local shop is "Surprising item on the scale".
 
Posted by bib (# 13074) on :
 
Maybe I'll start saying "Happy Holy Days" which is in fact the source of the word holiday. My mother in law used the appalling phrase 'compliments of the season' which I found much more offensive than Happy Holidays. Anyway, Happy Christmas shipmates.
 
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I don't celebrate Christmas. If wished a Merry Christmas I usually thank the person or say Happy Holidays. While it be inclusive in some quarters, I don't like the people who think it should be mandatory. People like you who demand that everyone say "Merry Christmas" instead of a phrase of good will that is compatible with their own religious practice or lack of it.
December 25th is widely understood to be Christmas, whether you like it or not. If you choose to disregard that, that's your decision. I don't have a lot of time for people who think that referring to a specific festival by its actual name is wrong and offensive. What I am asking is, who actually finds it offensive to hear it called Christmas? Because there is an accepted impression that it will upset some elements of the population who aren't Christian, but I have yet to meet anyone who actually feels that way. I don't currently have any religious faith myself but the season is what it is.

It's also inconsistent because nobody seems to do this for other festivals like Easter or Bank Holidays or Diwali.

Anyway, Happy Holidays is a nice bland all-purpose generic greeting that has no overtones of anything at all. Having been wished it a few times so far, I can keep it to apply equally to the New Year, Easter, Halloween, Diwali, the end of Ramadan, my birthday, and any day off I might have throughout the year.
I'm not offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas. I'm offended when they demand that I reply "Merry Christmas" instead of another salutation of my own choosing. Or that if I send a card of greeting they demand it has to mention Christmas. If that bothers you that I don't follow your rules, then tough. What I especially like about replying Happy Holiday is that it's a phrase of good will to those I wish well and annoyance to the likes of you.

If you never meet people like me, who don't care to use Christmas in their expressions of good will, then what are you whining about?

[ 12. December 2015, 05:26: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
The new version of this in my local shop is "Surprising item on the scale".
Well, that's kind of fun.

[ 12. December 2015, 07:39: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 
Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
I'm not the first to say that 'happy holiday' sounds weird on this side of the Pond because holiday is what we go on in the summer.

I don't think I've ever had a Jewish or Muslim friend who doesn't/didn't send Christmas cards, so I send/sent them Christmas cards, too.

Happy Crimbo, one and all!

M.

[ 12. December 2015, 07:57: Message edited by: M. ]
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Maybe "Happy X-mas" is appropriate as Christ seems somewhat x rated in today's polite society.
 
Posted by alienfromzog (# 5327) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
The new version of this in my local shop is "Surprising item on the scale".
Well, that's kind of fun.
Yeah, in my case it could mean that I've bought some fruit... [Biased]

AFZ
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
The new version of this in my local shop is "Surprising item on the scale".
Yes, I've had that too. I'm looking forward to the seasonal adaptation of "Surprising item on the scale, ho ho ho".

Having said that, I suppose adding "Merry Christmas" could mislead shoppers into thinking it was a gift they didn't have to pay for.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
I was wished Merry Christmas by an automated checkout today. I didn't reply.
I heard a rumour that they were being programmed to say "Ho Ho Ho." Did it actually do this?
It has happened. Tesco's self-service tills have a bell jingling at you and "Ho, Ho, Ho!" I'm dealing with people on the tills because it's so horrible.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Father Christmas in his garden shed, checking his tools:
- Spade, fork, rake, hoe, hoe, hoe...
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
.......self-service tills have a bell jingling at you and "Ho, Ho, Ho!" I'm dealing with people on the tills because it's so horrible.
H'mmmm Santa -phobia in adults. Interesting. [Paranoid]
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
It's not just me ..
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
It has happened. Tesco's self-service tills have a bell jingling at you and "Ho, Ho, Ho!" I'm dealing with people on the tills because it's so horrible.
You mean it's ho-ho-horrible [Big Grin]

Sounds like fun - looking forward to my next visit. The closest I've come to it at other supermarkets is being assisted with my unexpected item by someone in a Santa hat.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Half past ten or eleven at night, not in the best of moods because I was hungry and on my way home from work, no I wasn't best pleased to have the automated check-out start jingling cheerfully in my ear as I was scanning the ready meal I was intending to eat. The final greeting of "Ho, ho, ho, Merry Christmas" a week into Advent had me debating what seasonal produce applied with force would silence the damn machine.

After years of self-service, which I am sure Tesco's would prefer because it reduces staff costs, I'm now using the manned tills to avoid the annoying message.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
Please allow me to use this thread and say just how much I hate "gift bags." We aren't big Christmas buyers at my house, we get each other things like chocolates and socks and the grand cost total for everything under the tree right now, for three people, is probably about sixty dollars, so why does my entire living room look like someone just came through and dropped the weeks' shopping and trash in the middle of the floor? Those damn gift bags, that's why! There's plenty of wrapping paper, ribbon and tape in the closet. It doesn't have to be neat, just wrapped, instead of sacked with crushed crepe paper spilling over the top.

My husband asked me what I wanted for Christmas when we were standing in Walmart and I nodded toward a stack of plain sweatshirts and said, "A new sweatshirt would be nice." Two weeks later he said he couldn't find a sweatshirt without some sort of slogan on the front. We were in the drug store at the time so I picked up a pretty gold compact (ten dollars on sale for half-price) and said, "This would be nice." Now it's under the tree in a huge bag that keeps falling over because it's way big and mainly empty.

Wake me when it's Ash Wednesday.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Piglet--

Were the TV chefs you mentioned American, or at least on American shows? Because "around the holidays" is normal here.
No - Canadian, on the CBC.

The check-out girl in a bookshop wished me "happy holidays" today and I must confess that I replied "thank you - merry Christmas".
 
Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
Well, I went to Asda today, purely to see if the self-service checkouts would say 'ho ho ho!' to me. They didn't. Just the usual 'unexpected item in the baggage area.' Am quite disappointed!
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Yes, I went round to Tesco's and the checkouts were all disappointingly silent. Maybe they'll spring the Christmas greetings on us later in the month.
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Found a Bible verse that starts with Ho Ho, then something about 'fleeing from the land of the North'. Pressumably a reference to the North Pole?
Surprised Ol' St Nick with his Ho ho ho is even allowed any representation in a public place these days.

<Zechariah 2: v6>
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:


After years of self-service, which I am sure Tesco's would prefer because it reduces staff costs,
Exactly why I don't use them.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:


After years of self-service, which I am sure Tesco's would prefer because it reduces staff costs,
Exactly why I don't use them.
Several years ago I tried to explain that to a cashier who was being very snippy about my not wanting to use the self-serve check-out.
 
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :
 
I don't use them because they are rubbish. And I am happy to tell any staff member who asks me about this. The same applies to the bank paying-in machines - give me a person any day who is actually trained to use the till unlike me.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I am iron-clad with this -- diminished vision is an excellent excuse.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
I don't use the self-serve at my local Kroger because the bossy voice that keeps barking at me to "Put! the! item! in! the! bag!" has a British accent and makes me feel like an idiot. I get quite enough of that here on the ship.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
If it quacks like a duck ...
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I don't use the self-serve at my local Kroger because the bossy voice that keeps barking at me to "Put! the! item! in! the! bag!" has a British accent and makes me feel like an idiot. I get quite enough of that here on the ship.
That's why the self-serves have volume controls. [Biased] The first thing I do when I use the self-checkout is turn the volume off.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If it quacks like a duck ...
Thoroughly mean and misdirected. Thought better of you.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
It's Hell. Twilight has been around long enough to know that posting here paints a target on her. And, that was a barn-door sized target she offered. In addition, she doesn't need some relative noob to defend her.

Now, let's all join in singing
"We wish you a Happy Holidays,
We wish you a Happy Holidays,
We wish you a Happy Holidays,
Now kindly bog off"
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If it quacks like a duck ...
Thoroughly mean
Good, good... let the hate flow through you.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I don't use the self-serve at my local Kroger because the bossy voice that keeps barking at me to "Put! the! item! in! the! bag!" has a British accent and makes me feel like an idiot. I get quite enough of that here on the ship.
I grumble at self-service tills because they don't let me scan one thing and say "I've got 10 of these". I understand why they don't, but I still grumble about it. I still choose the self-service line in preference to a person, though.

As far as holiday wishes go, I usually send cards that say "Merry Christmas". I wish people a Merry Christmas. I don't feel the need to get offended if someone wishes me something else (I might not be able to keep a straight face if it's "Winterval" or "Festivus", mind.)

As far as other holidays go, if I know someone has a particular celebration coming up, I wish them a happy whatever-it-is. Whether or not that celebration happens in the middle of winter.
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Found a Bible verse that starts with Ho Ho, then something about 'fleeing from the land of the North' ...
There's also Ho, everyone that thirsteth from Isaiah 55.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to flee from the North though - it's easily my favourite direction ... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
PS - just a thought re: Twilight's post: why would you feel intimidated by a "British"* accent?

* not that such a thing actually exists. Who did it sound like? Billy Connolly? Someone from East Enders? The Queen?
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:

I can't imagine why anyone would want to flee from the North though - it's easily my favourite direction ... [Big Grin]
It's fleeing from the land of the north, rather than the direction. I can see why Mexico may be seeing a flood of refugees from the land of the north, people assaulted by too many loud proclamations of "Happy Holidays" from their automated check-outs and plain red coffee cups.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
LIlBuddha: Thanks for defending me. I knew Alan was kidding yet still I enjoyed it.

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
PS - just a thought re: Twilight's post: why would you feel intimidated by a "British"* accent?

* not that such a thing actually exists. Who did it sound like? Billy Connolly? Someone from East Enders? The Queen?
Emma Thompson a bit angry. (She's actually my favorite actress, but she can sometimes sound frightfully superior and intolerant to my West Virginia-twang conditioned ears.) Now that you mention it, I would love to have Billy Connolly in the machine or possibly Vicki Pollard saying "Yeah but, no but, its in the bag then innit?"
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I was wondering if Twilight had ben spoken to by Ray Winstone or another of our long line of Hollywood baddies. Alan Rickman and Liam Neeson do the job well too, but not as well as Winstone.

To be asked in one of those deep, low, slow voices "How. Are. You. Going. To. Pay?" could be quite terrifying.

(I once went round the church selling raffle tickets while recovering from a sore throat that gave me that kind of voice. Sold stacks of tickets).
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I'm not offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas.
I have had the dubious good fortune to know, vaguely, some extrememly upstanding Baptists who insisted on 'HAPPY Christmas' because they wouldn't want anyone to think they were sanctioning the sort of merriment that comes from a bottle...

It really does take all sorts, even within the same religion, it would seem.
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
That's why the self-serves have volume controls. [Biased] The first thing I do when I use the self-checkout is turn the volume off.
Where are the volume controls? I never knew there were any.

Moo
 
Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
I quite like the hand held scanners (when they are working [Roll Eyes] ), they are much less bossy than self check outs. I do feel uncomfortable putting things into my shopping bag as I wander round though and feel I have to hold my scanner obviously so no one thinks I'm shoplifting.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
My dog got into the gift bags and tore up a watch! Suddenly I had an excuse to put all the presents in the closet until Christmas morning! My living room looks pretty and tidy again!

The Lord works in mysterious ways. [Yipee]
 
Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
December 25th is widely understood to be Christmas, whether you like it or not.
And yet you're horribly offended when someone doesn't wish you a "Merry Christmas" more than two weeks in advance? Just another example of the "War on Advent". [Big Grin]
Even worse, the term "Christmas" obviously reflects the bitter "War on the Holy Mass". So Ariel, please wish me a "Blessed Attendance at the Christ Mass".
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
In addition, she doesn't need some relative noob to defend her.
Noob? Points, grandfather, for using the word relatively properly.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
]Good, good... let the hate flow through you.
I don't hate Alan, not even cross with him. Suppose I shouldn't have said anything. One should always be kind to those whose prime is past.
Speaking of which, nice cultural reference, Doc Tor.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

To be asked in one of those deep, low, slow voices "How. Are. You. Going. To. Pay?" could be quite terrifying.

That would be so completely badass.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Cue James Earl Jones, either as himself or as Darth Vader.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Please allow me to use this thread and say just how much I hate "gift bags." We aren't big Christmas buyers at my house, we get each other things like chocolates and socks and the grand cost total for everything under the tree right now, for three people, is probably about sixty dollars, so why does my entire living room look like someone just came through and dropped the weeks' shopping and trash in the middle of the floor? Those damn gift bags, that's why! There's plenty of wrapping paper, ribbon and tape in the closet. It doesn't have to be neat, just wrapped, instead of sacked with crushed crepe paper spilling over the top.
Then why the fuck don't you wrap it? Does your husband insist on gift bags? Did somebody follow you home from the store and hold a gun to your head and insist you use a gift bag instead of wrapping paper? WHY DO YOU USE THE FUCKING THINGS IF YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH? Are you stupid?
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I've now received three cards wishing me Happy Holidays. It's Christmas. What's wrong with wishing people a happy Christmas? Why is that considered offensive?
Why do you think the reason the person sent you a card saying "Happy Holidays" is because they consider it offensive? Or even that they think somebody else might consider it offensive? is that the only possible reason someone might send a card that says "Happy Holidays"? What makes you think they think there's something wrong with wishing someone a happy Christmas?

Why do YOU think it's wrong to wish someone happy holidays? Who twisted your knickers? Have you been watching televangelists again? We've warned you about that. First they get you uptight about winter greetings, next thing they're hitting you up for money and getting caught with their pants around their ankles in a men's room in Bimini. Is that what you want to be associated with?

In short, why are you such a fucking idiot?
 
Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
Ariel can speak for her/himself but possibly because, I believe, that Ariel is in the UK. Ariel is not going on holiday. Ariel is looking forward to Christmas.

M.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Then why the fuck don't you wrap it? Does your husband insist on gift bags? Did somebody follow you home from the store and hold a gun to your head and insist you use a gift bag instead of wrapping paper? WHY DO YOU USE THE FUCKING THINGS IF YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH? Are you stupid?
Am I stupid? I believe most people who read that rant would take it for granted that the gifts in gift bags were not wrapped by me, but by Someone Else. A few of them are actually to me.

Every year the majority of the gifts under our tree are to my son from his father ( my ex-husband.) It's a time honored tradition for the non-custodial parent to go overboard at Christmas. I wouldn't be so rude as to mess with them, only to complain about them here.
 
Posted by Pomona (# 17175) on :
 
Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings (whichever is more appropriate to one's side of the pond) normally includes Diwali since it happens in winter, so a bit confused as to why the OP mentions nobody doing this for Diwali. As for Easter, there are more festivals around the same time in winter than there are in spring, and Easter's changing date also impacts this. It just seems like common sense to use a generic seasonal greeting at a time when there are many religious festivals being celebrated, and even many cultural Christians may have a hard time with Christmas. And as has been pointed out, it is not Christmas yet anyway.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings (whichever is more appropriate to one's side of the pond) normally includes Diwali since it happens in winter, so a bit confused as to why the OP mentions nobody doing this for Diwali.
I am fairly certain that the majority of people wishing others "Happy Holidays" have never heard of Diwali, let alone considered that they might be choosing their language in order to include it.
 
Posted by Pomona (# 17175) on :
 
But how wouldn't they have heard of Diwali? [Confused]

It's not some kind of big secret, it's just another major winter religious festival like Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.

Also most people saying Happy Holidays are doing it to include all festivals around that time, whether they have heard of them or not. Diwali is included because of the timeframe.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
it's just another major winter religious festival like Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.

is this where I tentatively stick my hand up and say Kwanzaa is a totally new one on me as word thing and festival? Every day's a school day...
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
Well then.

Happy Harmonica
Happy Dieting Month
Happy Lighting Festival
Happy More Recently Invented American/African Fruit Harvest Thing
Happy Moose Hunting Season

And anyone omitted, please treat yourself to a McDonald's Happy Meal. Vegetarians are SOL, you don't get a holiday.

[ 15. December 2015, 14:59: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
You forgot Happy Beethoven's Birthday (tomorrow).
[Razz]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why do you think the reason the person sent you a card saying "Happy Holidays" is because they consider it offensive? Or even that they think somebody else might consider it offensive? is that the only possible reason someone might send a card that says "Happy Holidays"? What makes you think they think there's something wrong with wishing someone a happy Christmas? Why do YOU think it's wrong to wish someone happy holidays? Who twisted your knickers? Have you been watching televangelists again?
[Snore] Wrong thread, MT. Go and play on the Rosencrantz one in the Circus.
 
Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
PS - just a thought re: Twilight's post: why would you feel intimidated by a "British"* accent?

* not that such a thing actually exists. Who did it sound like? Billy Connolly? Someone from East Enders? The Queen?
Eddie Izzard! Now if it was his voice at the local Kroger self-checkout, I would make it a point to use those. And normally I hate self-checkout because it's intimidating. All those people behind you, impatiently clucking their tongues because you're a little slower at the whole business. Eddie Izzard would be oddly comforting.
 
Posted by Pomona (# 17175) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
it's just another major winter religious festival like Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.

is this where I tentatively stick my hand up and say Kwanzaa is a totally new one on me as word thing and festival? Every day's a school day...
In fairness (and I should have qualified it thusly), Kwanzaa is only a major festival in North America. It's an African-American festival honouring West African culture and traditions.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
Eddie Izzard! Now if it was his voice at the local Kroger self-checkout, I would make it a point to use those. And normally I hate self-checkout because it's intimidating. All those people behind you, impatiently clucking their tongues because you're a little slower at the whole business. Eddie Izzard would be oddly comforting.
Oo, oo, yes he would! Or Ricky Gervais doing his soft and smarmy mumbling: "Now you might want to run it through the scanner before putting it in the bag --wait -- or not --(chuckle)... (sigh) fun... I see you have the magazine, "Big Breasted Women Being Punished," that's not fair then, is it? If anything they should be rewarded, shouldn't they ... oh, I see you have Twinkies, I think they're yummy don't ..."
 
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
quote:

In fairness (and I should have qualified it thusly), Kwanzaa is only a major festival in North America. It's an African-American festival honouring West African culture and traditions.
In further fairness, it is only celebrated in the United States; I never hear of it in Canada, and a significant part of my family is of Black origin.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Oh well, if we're living our fantasies...

Jeff Bridges greets me with audible delight - 'Mmm, steak, my favourite! You're going to slow roast the peppers? Fresh chili salsa - wow! '. Instead of a spotty lad in a nylon overall coming to swipe a card when I scan the bottle of wine, Jeff purrs on 'Chilean Merlot? Was that cheesecake I just saw? What time's dinner? I'll be there.'
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Why do you think the reason the person sent you a card saying "Happy Holidays" is because they consider it offensive? Or even that they think somebody else might consider it offensive? is that the only possible reason someone might send a card that says "Happy Holidays"? What makes you think they think there's something wrong with wishing someone a happy Christmas? Why do YOU think it's wrong to wish someone happy holidays? Who twisted your knickers? Have you been watching televangelists again?
[Snore] Wrong thread, MT. Go and play on the Rosencrantz one in the Circus.
You done fucked up your OP and now are pissy about being called on it. Take your lumps.
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Then why the fuck don't you wrap it? Does your husband insist on gift bags? Did somebody follow you home from the store and hold a gun to your head and insist you use a gift bag instead of wrapping paper? WHY DO YOU USE THE FUCKING THINGS IF YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH? Are you stupid?
Am I stupid?
Yes. Next question?
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
You done fucked up your OP and now are pissy about being called on it. Take your lumps.
Nope, just bored. Time moves on.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
quote:

In fairness (and I should have qualified it thusly), Kwanzaa is only a major festival in North America. It's an African-American festival honouring West African culture and traditions.
In further fairness, it is only celebrated in the United States; I never hear of it in Canada, and a significant part of my family is of Black origin.
It isn't only celebrated in the US. Just not by very many people. To be fair, it is a minority of Black Americans who celebrate it, IME. There is more awareness in the US, because that is where it originated.
 
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Then why the fuck don't you wrap it? Does your husband insist on gift bags? Did somebody follow you home from the store and hold a gun to your head and insist you use a gift bag instead of wrapping paper? WHY DO YOU USE THE FUCKING THINGS IF YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH? Are you stupid?
Am I stupid?
Yes. Next question?
Next question? Why come late to a thread, with no clue what's going on, and say things that have already been said but with more wit and timing?
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
More December holidays (Wikipedia).
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Firenze--

You really need to create self-serve register AIs, and sell them.
[Smile]
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Maybe we should just all send cards that say "Congratulations on making it as far as December, not long to go now".
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
But how wouldn't they have heard of Diwali? [Confused]
Because they don't know any Hindus? Hanukkah gets enough mentions in popular culture (TV, movies etc.) that the average person with no particular knowledge of Jews or Judaism has probably heard of it. Diwali doesn't get so many mentions. I'd guess it was about as well-known as Eid. (But probably more well known than that there's more than one Eid.)

Kwanzaa? I've heard of it. Probably all my black friends have heard of it, but none of them celebrate it. Amongst the white folks? Oddly enough, it came up in conversation the other day (it was written on the seasonal wrapping for some kind of fast food). The current score stands at one "I've heard of that", one "is that the black thing?" and three "huh?"
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
is this where I tentatively stick my hand up and say Kwanzaa is a totally new one on me as word thing and festival? Every day's a school day...
Kwanzaa is a phony holiday, invented in Los Angeles in the mid-1960s, and celebrated primarily by the kind of people who insist on capitalizing "black" when it is used to refer to human beings with more melanin in their skin than some other human beings.

None of my black friends or colleagues observe it; it seems to be of interest primarily to the obsessively politically correct.

Happy Hoohah.
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
But how wouldn't they have heard of Diwali? [Confused]
Because they don't know any Hindus? Hanukkah gets enough mentions in popular culture (TV, movies etc.) that the average person with no particular knowledge of Jews or Judaism has probably heard of it. Diwali doesn't get so many mentions. I'd guess it was about as well-known as Eid. (But probably more well known than that there's more than one Eid.)
Wasn't it Jimi Mistri in 'The Guru' who lamented that the only famous Hindu in the US was Apu from the Simpsons 'and he's not even real!'

(Best quote from that film: "Feel Billy Joel between your legs," But I digress.)

I have heard of Kwanzaa but I have never heard of anyone I know in the UK celebrating it.

As for Beethoven's birthday, I certainly intend to celebrate that - and mine too!
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
[ I see you have the magazine, "Big Breasted Women Being Punished,"
They sell that in supermarkets now? [Devil]
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Supermarkets have no shame. They'll sell anything that might make them a quid/buck. Hot cross buns in January, mince pies in August (with an October best-by date), even cards declaring "Happy Holidays".
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
it's just another major winter religious festival like Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.

is this where I tentatively stick my hand up and say Kwanzaa is a totally new one on me as word thing and festival? Every day's a school day...
In fairness (and I should have qualified it thusly), Kwanzaa is only a major festival in North America. It's an African-American festival honouring West African culture and traditions.
Which is why it is very odd to see it in a list used by a British person. This is my main objection to “Happy Holidays” being used by British people in general. Not that there’s anything wrong with being an American. But don’t pretend to be one if you’re not. I’m sure “Season’s Greetings” would be good enough for the Queen [Two face] .

The equivalent of “Happy Holidays” in French is “Bonnes fêtes”. If someone went with just “Happy Christmas (Joyeux Noël)” I would assume that for some reason they didn’t like me and wanted me to have a miserable New Year.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
They sell hot cross buns in JanuaryFebruaryMarch AprilMayJuneJuly AugustSeptemberOctoberNovember and December. And they aren't, of course, hot.
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Then why the fuck don't you wrap it? Does your husband insist on gift bags? Did somebody follow you home from the store and hold a gun to your head and insist you use a gift bag instead of wrapping paper? WHY DO YOU USE THE FUCKING THINGS IF YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH? Are you stupid?
Am I stupid?
Yes. Next question?
Next question? Why come late to a thread, with no clue what's going on, and say things that have already been said but with more wit and timing?
I've been reading this all along, darlin', and have more clue than you I'd say. But that's just in general.
As for my answer, I must have misunderstood your question to be an overall assessment of you, not just on this thread. Of course, my answer would still have been the same.
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
The equivalent of “Happy Holidays” in French is “Bonnes fêtes”. If someone went with just “Happy Christmas (Joyeux Noël)” I would assume that for some reason they didn’t like me and wanted me to have a miserable New Year.
Which is why I have less than no objection to "Happy Holidays." Until I saw Pomona remind me that of course I'd been thinking of it, how could I not, I hadn't even remembered that Diwali was a winter holiday. Heck, I hadn't even thought about it at all. Kwanzaa? Yeah, you meet people around here who celebrate that. Advent? Hey, I enjoy being pedantic and reminding GLE's that they're taking part in the War on Purple (and putting a yellow cap on another bottle of blue chain lube at the bike shop every Sunday). Krampusnacht? St. Nick's Day? Santa Lucia? Any excuse for a party? Bring it.

Look, I can't hardly remember what day of the week it is. Retailminionschedule, no regularity, no significance to days other than a few shifts in when you're open on two of them. I'd probably wish someone "Merry Christmas" on 30 December or something, forgetting that Christmas had passed. "Happy Holidays" isn't just PC run amok. It's convenient, it's all-encompasing, and it keeps the folks behind the counter a little less crazy.
 
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I recommend Daily Mash Christmas Cards. Caption is HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS! HAVE A SPROUT.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
I'd probably wish someone "Merry Christmas" on 30 December or something, forgetting that Christmas had passed.
Nope, it's the sixth day of Christmas with six more to go.
[Razz]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
But don’t pretend to be one if you’re not.
Says someone called la vie en rouge... [Biased]

[ 16. December 2015, 15:33: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Supermarkets have no shame. They'll sell anything that might make them a quid/buck. Hot cross buns in January, mince pies in August (with an October best-by date), even cards declaring "Happy Holidays".
Hot cross buns have been on sale for a while now and were in store last night when I passed by. I sort of did a double take as I had just come in past the flower stall bit where they had daffodils and tulips as well.

As for cards saying "Happy Holidays" - so much better than a card wishing you a simple Merry Christmas, which can only be used once and looks very out of date in January. Instead, you can use them at any time throughout the year for any occasion. Just get in a stock and your worries about having the right kind of card for the occasion are over. Next stop, Easter. (Which to judge by the flowers and buns is already almost here.)
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I have not seen any time when HCBs have not been for sale. Occasionally, Waitrose also have "richly fruited buns" which are the same without the cross, but always as well, not instead. I won't buy the crossed ones, and get my HCBs on Good Friday from the local baker for breakfast - so they are hot at the point of sale.

Waitrose are currantly selling "signature spice star" loaves for Christmas, which satisfy my yearning for spicy yeast dough, and are wholemeal as well.
 
Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings (whichever is more appropriate to one's side of the pond) normally includes Diwali since it happens in winter, so a bit confused as to why the OP mentions nobody doing this for Diwali.
I am fairly certain that the majority of people wishing others "Happy Holidays" have never heard of Diwali, let alone considered that they might be choosing their language in order to include it.
Most people in my corner of middle England have never heard of Divali, as real holiday that real people celebrate. If they have come aross it then it is as something exotic that happens elsewehere.

Happy holidays around here is seen as an creeping Americanism or an attempt to be PC that they find offensive.

I have been driven nuts by anti 'happy holiday' posts on ny FB page - variations of how they are celebrate christams and if you don't like it go back to where you came from (serioulsy)
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Tell you what: we'll take back "Happy Holidays" to the US, if UK folks will please take back the citron bits from the hot cross buns. You can put them in your own, and enjoy them. I can't stand citron. Win-win. [Smile]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Tell you what: we'll take back "Happy Holidays" to the US, if UK folks will please take back the citron bits from the hot cross buns. You can put them in your own, and enjoy them. I can't stand citron. Win-win. [Smile]
Just so long as Hershey's stop calling their brown confectionary "chocolate" [Biased]
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
And on behalf of southern latitudes, I'd quite like you to stop all this nonsense about things being winter holidays. They're December holidays, and this weekend it's going to be 37 Celsius.
 
Posted by St Deird (# 7631) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
PS - just a thought re: Twilight's post: why would you feel intimidated by a "British"* accent?

* not that such a thing actually exists. Who did it sound like? Billy Connolly? Someone from East Enders? The Queen?
That really annoys me.

If I hear someone talking in an Eastern-European language, that's the most I'll be able to identify it - because I don't speak any Eastern-European languages. That doesn't mean that if I call the not-quite-identified language "an Easter-European language" that I believe there is only one in existence.

Similarly, I am not able to classify accents as specifically from Manchester or York or Edinburgh or Cardiff. I am able to identify that it is one of the many accents from the category "British accents", and so that is what I'll call it.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And on behalf of southern latitudes, I'd quite like you to stop all this nonsense about things being winter holidays. They're December holidays, and this weekend it's going to be 37 Celsius.
Is because snow won't stick upside down.

Before you bring it up, we all know footage of "Antarctica" is fake. Is a topical island.
 
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
and then there's Festivus the holiday for the rest of us.
 
Posted by Signaller (# 17495) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
Most people in my corner of middle England have never heard of Divali, as real holiday that real people celebrate. If they have come aross it then it is as something exotic that happens elsewehere.
In this corner of middle England in north west London, Diwali is enthusiastically celebrated, the external manifestation being fireworks which in most years get mixed up with those for Guy Fawkes.

But it never seems to occur anywhere near Christmas, so I can't see any need for a catch-all greeting.
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And on behalf of southern latitudes, I'd quite like you to stop all this nonsense about things being winter holidays. They're December holidays, and this weekend it's going to be 37 Celsius.
Is because snow won't stick upside down.

Before you bring it up, we all know footage of "Antarctica" is fake. Is a topical island.
What's the topic? Dyslexia?
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
I've never run across hot cross buns outside of the period around Easter in any of the places I've lived in the US. Shame, because they are quite tasty!
 
Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I've never run across hot cross buns outside of the period around Easter in any of the places I've lived in the US. Shame, because they are quite tasty!
do you not have currant buns? very like hot cross buns but without the cross on the top?
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I've never run across hot cross buns outside of the period around Easter in any of the places I've lived in the US. Shame, because they are quite tasty!
do you not have currant buns? very like hot cross buns but without the cross on the top?
Nothing like hot cross buns. As well as not having the cross, they're also lacking the spices that go into a hot cross but
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I've never run across hot cross buns outside of the period around Easter in any of the places I've lived in the US. Shame, because they are quite tasty!
They were very popular when I lived in the northeast U.S., but here in the southwest they're much harder to find, and they're not very good when I do manage to find any.
[Frown]
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I've never run across hot cross buns outside of the period around Easter in any of the places I've lived in the US. Shame, because they are quite tasty!
do you not have currant buns? very like hot cross buns but without the cross on the top?
Nope--not that I've ever run across.
One thing to note is that currants aren't that common in the US due to concerns with plant diseases. Production has only really resumed in the last decade.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Other dried grape products are available. (As the media announcers will say when a product name has been broadcast.)
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
Cinnamon Raisin Buns are popular, but they are NOT Hot Cross Buns.
[Disappointed]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
One thing to note is that currants aren't that common in the US due to concerns with plant diseases. Production has only really resumed in the last decade.
That and they're crap. At least the ones I've had here.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Tell you what: we'll take back "Happy Holidays" to the US, if UK folks will please take back the citron bits from the hot cross buns. You can put them in your own, and enjoy them. I can't stand citron. Win-win. [Smile]
Just so long as Hershey's stop calling their brown confectionary "chocolate" [Biased]
Psssst...try Ghirardelli. The San Francisco treat.*

*Actually, that's from the old ads for Rice-a-Roni, but it fits.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
I haven't had HC buns in decades. I liked them ok when I dug the citron out. [Smile]

I wouldn't think they'd be hard to make. The ones we had in the grade school cafeteria were basically slightly-sweet dinner rolls with spices and citron, and a cross in white frosting.

The cinnamon roll recipe up above would be fairly close. But I wonder, if you're desperate, if it would work well enough to get frozen ready-to-bake dinner rolls, and knead spices and sugar and citron into them? Or raisins.

YMMV.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Real HCBs have the crosses by having a flour and water batter piped as the cross, or, as I vaguely remember from childhood, a slashed cross. (Now having doubts about that.) Not icing. They pre-date icing sugar or the means to make one's own powdered sugar.
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Okay, kiddos. This is Hell. We keep our oven temperature set at gas mark eleventybillion, which, according to my copy of Joy of Cooking, will vaporize your damn buns in about half a nanosecond.

You wanna talk crosscurrent buns? Go to Heaven. There's a recipe thread there. Hell, you might even be more likely to find someone who cares thataway, since the cooks don't come down here that much, given that our recipes tend to involve presoaking the neighbor's annoying cat in beer.

—Ariston, Hellhost
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
But, not good beer. Cats piss like Bud or Coors.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
But, not good beer. Cats piss like Bud or Coors.
We're aiming for a sort of feline Hákarl?
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
...our recipes tend to involve presoaking the neighbor's annoying cat in beer.

—Ariston, Hellhost
I miss Campbellite.

[Frown]
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
I got a card today which has on the front 'Warmest Winter Wishes'.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Did it have an appropriate picture e.g. a roaring log fire or similar?
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Perhaps they were just being topical, considering we're having one of the warmest winters on record.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
You done fucked up your OP and now are pissy about being called on it. Take your lumps.
Nope, just bored. Time moves on.
You really are a precious little thing aren't you?
 
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Oh She probably read her OP and with luck realizes how embarrassing it is and wants it all to be in the past.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I'm fine with my OP, thanks. I'm just not interested in dredging up a fight from several days ago at this stage. I haven't got the energy at present and the thread has moved on anyway.
 
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :
 
You never seemed too interested in engaging in the first place.
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Understandable. Engagement around here appears to consist of exchanging fruit bun recipes.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Understandable. Engagement around here appears to consist of exchanging fruit bun recipes.
I have an excellent pork pie recipe. At least it would piss off Ariston!
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Given that you have no such thing—excellence being inimical to the nature of pork pies—I don't see how I could be even slightly miffed.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Given that you have no such thing—excellence being inimical to the nature of pork pies
I beg to differ.

Probably tastes better than the other kind as well.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Given that you have no such thing—excellence being inimical to the nature of pork pies—I don't see how I could be even slightly miffed.
You've never had a proper one. Forget the hard grey pastry that shatters to reveal a congealed lump of something grey and unidentifiable at the base of the pastry case with the remaining two-thirds of the space filled by air. No commercially made factory output pork pie is ever going to be great. You need to try a genuine handmade pork pie with decent cuts of real pork in it, seasoned with herbs, that goes all the way up to the top of a golden-brown pastry case. There may even be meat jelly in it but there is no air. This is a pork pie that can be sliced without fear, and looked forward to, rich, succulent, edible and moreish either hot or cold.

And it does not have a hardboiled egg in the centre either.

[ 21. December 2015, 17:44: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
lB—I actually have a grey straw one that I picked up from one of the greatest shops I've ever been to. Looked reeeal nice before I started pulling my hair back/lopped it all off (sniff).

A—wouldn't you know it, but I have had something like that. Hated it. Why, you're not even the first person on these very boards who couldn't believe that I might have given it an honest-to-God chance, or just knew that I must not have had The Real Thing™. Nope. Pork pies are a waste of perfectly good rotten Spam.
 
Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Signaller:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
Most people in my corner of middle England have never heard of Divali, as real holiday that real people celebrate. If they have come aross it then it is as something exotic that happens elsewehere.
In this corner of middle England in north west London, Diwali is enthusiastically celebrated, the external manifestation being fireworks which in most years get mixed up with those for Guy Fawkes.

But it never seems to occur anywhere near Christmas, so I can't see any need for a catch-all greeting.
While I am far from clear where 'Middle England' exists geographically, in the actual middle of England (places like Leicester) Diwali is celebrated as described by Signaller. It tends to fall in October or November so is not confused with 'winter holidays', but the lights put up for Diwali are kept up for Christmas in parts of the city. So it might be exotic but it's celebrated quite close to home.
 
Posted by Mertseger (# 4534) on :
 
Blessed Solstice!
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
And to you!
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
While I am far from clear where 'Middle England' exists geographically, in the actual middle of England (places like Leicester) Diwali is celebrated as described by Signaller. It tends to fall in October or November so is not confused with 'winter holidays', but the lights put up for Diwali are kept up for Christmas in parts of the city. So it might be exotic but it's celebrated quite close to home.
Correct. Any real Leicester person knows that they are Diwali lights until December, when they magically become Christmas lights!
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
May the year turn well for us.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
lB—I actually have a grey straw one that I picked up from one of the greatest shops I've ever been to. Looked reeeal nice before I started pulling my hair back/lopped it all off (sniff).

A—wouldn't you know it, but I have had something like that. Hated it. Why, you're not even the first person on these very boards who couldn't believe that I might have given it an honest-to-God chance, or just knew that I must not have had The Real Thing™. Nope. Pork pies are a waste of perfectly good rotten Spam.
We picked up our Christmas pork pies yesterday from an excellent independent butcher about half a mile from home. If I can get a couple of hours oven-time* I shall be making some rillons, which are slow-roast chunks of trimmed pork belly.

*in the run up to Christmas oven contention is serious.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Given that you have no such thing—excellence being inimical to the nature of pork pies—I don't see how I could be even slightly miffed.
You've never had a proper one. Forget the hard grey pastry that shatters to reveal a congealed lump of something grey and unidentifiable at the base of the pastry case with the remaining two-thirds of the space filled by air. No commercially made factory output pork pie is ever going to be great. You need to try a genuine handmade pork pie with decent cuts of real pork in it, seasoned with herbs, that goes all the way up to the top of a golden-brown pastry case. There may even be meat jelly in it but there is no air. This is a pork pie that can be sliced without fear, and looked forward to, rich, succulent, edible and moreish either hot or cold.

And it does not have a hardboiled egg in the centre either.
And like all the "proper" versions of these things, whether it be free range meat, pork pies or real cheese, completely unaffordable for anyone on a normal income.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And like all the "proper" versions of these things, whether it be free range meat, pork pies or real cheese, completely unaffordable for anyone on a normal income.
What do you define as a "normal income"?
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And like all the "proper" versions of these things, whether it be free range meat, pork pies or real cheese, completely unaffordable for anyone on a normal income.
What do you define as a "normal income"?
Not the sort of money required for these trendy artisan foods. You know the sort of thing, hand folded cheddar at £20/kilo, packs of outdoor reared wild boar sausages at a quid a sausage. The sort of thing my principles tell me I should want to buy but which my bank account tells me to forget about.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
What Karl said, re buying things on a normal income, let alone a low one.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And like all the "proper" versions of these things, whether it be free range meat, pork pies or real cheese, completely unaffordable for anyone on a normal income.
What do you define as a "normal income"?
Not the sort of money required for these trendy artisan foods. You know the sort of thing, hand folded cheddar at £20/kilo, packs of outdoor reared wild boar sausages at a quid a sausage. The sort of thing my principles tell me I should want to buy but which my bank account tells me to forget about.
It isn't that long ago that all food was produced in this "trendy artisan" manner. Food used to take up a far greater proportion of the household income but thanks to agri-business it is now much cheaper. All produce was "local produce" and a heck of a lot was seasonal. Clothing is cheaper now, especially if you buy goods produced in the subcontinent. The only thing that appears substantially more expensive nowadays is the #1 priority, housing.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And like all the "proper" versions of these things, whether it be free range meat, pork pies or real cheese, completely unaffordable for anyone on a normal income.
What do you define as a "normal income"?
Not the sort of money required for these trendy artisan foods. You know the sort of thing, hand folded cheddar at £20/kilo, packs of outdoor reared wild boar sausages at a quid a sausage. The sort of thing my principles tell me I should want to buy but which my bank account tells me to forget about.
It isn't that long ago that all food was produced in this "trendy artisan" manner. Food used to take up a far greater proportion of the household income but thanks to agri-business it is now much cheaper. All produce was "local produce" and a heck of a lot was seasonal. Clothing is cheaper now, especially if you buy goods produced in the subcontinent. The only thing that appears substantially more expensive nowadays is the #1 priority, housing.
I know. I also do not wish to return to the days when food was very expensive, because it puts starvation just around the corner. Or, to make it affordable, adulteration.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It isn't that long ago that all food was produced in this "trendy artisan" manner. Food used to take up a far greater proportion of the household income but thanks to agri-business it is now much cheaper. All produce was "local produce" and a heck of a lot was seasonal. Clothing is cheaper now, especially if you buy goods produced in the subcontinent. The only thing that appears substantially more expensive nowadays is the #1 priority, housing.
Food also used to be dangerous. That's a major thing people forget when extolling the dreamy memories of local abattoirs: they closed because they were dangerous. Big agribusiness frequently looks horrible, but it is a heck of lot safer than food used to be.
 
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I remember the abattoir in Bury, Lancashire. Animals used to escape quite regularly and rampage through the middle of town, often on market day. Nobody there could pretend they didn't know where their meat came from.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It isn't that long ago that all food was produced in this "trendy artisan" manner. Food used to take up a far greater proportion of the household income but thanks to agri-business it is now much cheaper. All produce was "local produce" and a heck of a lot was seasonal. Clothing is cheaper now, especially if you buy goods produced in the subcontinent. The only thing that appears substantially more expensive nowadays is the #1 priority, housing.
Food also used to be dangerous. That's a major thing people forget when extolling the dreamy memories of local abattoirs: they closed because they were dangerous. Big agribusiness frequently looks horrible, but it is a heck of lot safer than food used to be.
Safety is forced on agribusiness and is a product of the times, not a natural outcome of scale. Though, it is a mixed thing. Easier to enforce standards, easier to spread disease.
Animals escaping was also more a product of the times.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
Back to our "Happy Holidays" topic...

Circle K, a chain of convenience stores, has a full-page ad in today's newspaper with a huge headline: "HAPPY ALCOHOLIDAYS!" It then shows pictures and prices of their various specials on crappy beer.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It isn't that long ago that all food was produced in this "trendy artisan" manner. Food used to take up a far greater proportion of the household income but thanks to agri-business it is now much cheaper. All produce was "local produce" and a heck of a lot was seasonal. Clothing is cheaper now, especially if you buy goods produced in the subcontinent. The only thing that appears substantially more expensive nowadays is the #1 priority, housing.
Food also used to be dangerous. That's a major thing people forget when extolling the dreamy memories of local abattoirs: they closed because they were dangerous. Big agribusiness frequently looks horrible, but it is a heck of lot safer than food used to be.
Yes. Then if you got E. coli in your abbatoir, it could kill the locals. Now it can kill people in 27 states.

Also, what lilBuddha said. Big Agribiz is working very hard to roll back all the food safety laws we have in place, so they can make a killing.

[ 23. December 2015, 15:23: Message edited by: mousethief ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Yes. Then if you got E. coli in your abbatoir, it could kill the locals. Now it can kill people in 27 states.

Also, what lilBuddha said. Big Agribiz is working very hard to roll back all the food safety laws we have in place, so they can make a killing.
Escherichia coli is a species of bacteria where most of the strains are entirely harmless. So the presence of the species is not going to be a problem (and is probably inevitable), whereas the presence of a dangerous strain like 0157 is going to kill people.

I think there are a lot of risks with massive agribusiness practices, I absolutely agree. But it is still far safer than it used to be.

That said, the pressure to relax food security standards in the USA sounds very bad.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
It took a while to find it again, but this is a pretty shocking undercover report about food standards, and commercial pressures, inside abattoirs in the USA. Pretty shocking stuff.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Dude, Upton Sinclair.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Escherichia coli is a species of bacteria where most of the strains are entirely harmless. So the presence of the species is not going to be a problem (and is probably inevitable), whereas the presence of a dangerous strain like 0157 is going to kill people.
No fuck? Really? Hell, how foolish of me to not specify the exact strain of E. coli I was referring to as deadly. How fucked up of you to be so pedantic when it was crystal clear what I meant. Fuckwit.

[ 23. December 2015, 18:52: Message edited by: mousethief ]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Actually that's unfair to fuckwits. You weren't being stupid, you were being a jerk.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Dude, Upton Sinclair.
Yeah, I was thinking of his "The Jungle", too. Read it for school. NOT for the squeamish.

[Eek!] [Help]
 
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
What, socialism makes you sick?

Work and pray, live on hay
There'll be pie in the sky when you die (that's a lie!)
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Of course it does, because it is not grounded in the core Christian values embodied in the Conservative party as expressed in the PM's Christmas message.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
At least he has a Christmas message.
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
A very warm and cosy message it was too. Happy warmest winter holidays to you Mr Cameron. We'll all keep warm and toasy as your climate saving shale gas burns away nicely.

Or better still - just frack off (please).
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
At least he has a Christmas message.
What about this?

Sunday Mirror

Corbyn misreported again.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Indeed, no thread is complete without a mention of Comrade Corbyn. What a cheery message, too.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Heil Cameron!
Feel better now?


Interesting. Apple auto-correct changed that to Neil. It doesn't like the word? Or perhaps feels it should only be properly attributed.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
At least he has a Christmas message.
What about this?

Sunday Mirror

Corbyn misreported again.
And Corybyn's is a darned sight more Christian in content than Cameron's.
 


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