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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Just fucking do It!
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Leaders and workers of church X:
Why in the actual fuck am I doing your job for you?
Yeah, I know, it's because I can't stand to see an old lady cry in the middle of Bible class. Because she's losing her house. Because she's been asking you all in the church for help for months now, and you haven't gotten your shit together long enough to help her through the clusterfuck that is our legal system (in spite of one of you having legal training), nor have you found someone who can do so?
What the hell is the body of Christ for if we will all sit on our asses and let an old lady get thrown out on the street?
So now I'm doing it, because you lot aren't. As if we didn't have our hands full with our own congregation, AND two day jobs, AND studies... As if I needed another temptation toward Messiah complex.
Yeah, you feel guilty when I call. But that still doesn't get you in gear doing your tiny bit unless I go atomic on your asses every day or two. Which I'm doing. And then you shrug and drop the fucking ball the minute you hit difficulties.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?????
WHAT PART OF "TAKE CARE OF MY SHEEP" DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND????
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
She's lucky to have you, LC.
I've been dealing with my own housing situation. I've gone from one agency to another--and none of them really seems to know what the others actually do. Legal help isn't available at this point; and, given the local affordable housing crisis, the legal help is already overwhelmed with other people in similar situations.
I hope things work out well for the lady, and for you.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
WHAT PART OF "TAKE CARE OF MY SHEEP" DIDN'T YOU UNDERSTAND????
Probably the very strongly implied "Take care of all of my sheep". Rather than just take care of the sheep with money, those with good jobs that mean they can come to midweek meetings or serve as elders/deacons etc because they're not having to work a second job every evening, those with families who bring their children so they can pride themselves on being "relevant" and "family oriented", or any of the other sheep that the leadership consider "contribute to the church". Little old ladies without the money to keep their own house are just a burden and an annoyance. Jesus couldn't have possibly meant they needed to take care of those sheep ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
As Jesus said, "Look after my cheep who don't really need looking after. The poor, the widows, the needy, they will all be looked after by others, so don't bother."
Churches - as a whole - are very good at looking after people who need a package of help. Those who actually need more tailored help the church tends to be very poor at looking after. Those who don't respond to "We will pray for you" and actually need practical help, that is more of a challenge.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I have found that church people are not better than average well meaning people at helping others. And sometimes worse because they have to debate some meaningless wrong things.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have found that church people are not better than average well meaning people at helping others. And sometimes worse because they have to debate some meaningless wrong things.
This.
Glad you were able to step in LC, even tho someone else should have done so.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
It's like, damn.
You people (them people, sorry) don't really believe that stuff, do you. Because if you did, wouldn't you be busting your ass to do what Christ told you?
You should just HEAR Mr. Lamb get going on the iniquities of certain fellow pastors. You wonder if they ever unplugged a toilet in their lives, or sorted anybody's electric bill.
And if you don't do that shit, how the hell are you going to lead a decent Bible study?
Fuck that. They're not even in the same universe, it seems.
(And now, if I'm lucky, unquestionable evidence will turn up that the in-DUH-viduals in question have actually done something Christlike in their lives, and I will feel totally mortified AND totally glad. Let's hope.)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
They deal with only short term needs. A middle class church member with a new baby might get casseroles for a few days, but not if she's a single Mom because the food is meant as a help for the poor husband who is left to cook for himself. After a few days you are suppose to be back to not needing help.
Sort of like our culture gives you 3 days off work after death of your beloved, then you are expected to be back to fully functioning.
Besides, if someone has financial or legal problems, that's "not a spiritual issue" or so I've been told. But we'll add you to the prayer list.
I believe in prayer. I also believe we need to be willing to do the gritty work of becoming the answer to prayer.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I believe in prayer. I also believe we need to be willing to do the gritty work of becoming the answer to prayer.
You said it, BR!
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Belle Ringer - perfectly said.
I know that the same applies to mental health matters. These are usually long term, and require support over a long term. So often the church will pray for healing and blame the sufferer when they are not healed, and/or support for a short time, until is is clear they are refusing to get better.
Its short-termism, combined with victim-blaming. And they wonder why people are leaving in droves.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
SC--
That's why, IME, some churches have decided God doesn't heal anymore--or rarely.
That gets wrapped with a framework of dispensationalism--the idea that God's work in the world comes in phases; and something that's rampant in one phase may be rare in another. Different rules. E.g., Age of Law, Age of Grace.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
LC ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif) ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
You can do no wrong.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
You wonder if they ever unplugged a toilet in their lives
This reminds me of that "things you would pay other people to do" thread in Heaven. I've done it a few times when I couldn't get anyone out quickly enough and would have no problem parting with sums of cash to avoid doing it again.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Martin, stop fucking with me. I told you long ago I was on to your strategy of compliment-the-hell-out-of-people to avoid engaging with real uncomfortable issues, and you stopped pulling it on me for a while. Please go back to it and don't troll me again.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
You wonder if they ever unplugged a toilet in their lives
This reminds me of that "things you would pay other people to do" thread in Heaven. I've done it a few times when I couldn't get anyone out quickly enough and would have no problem parting with sums of cash to avoid doing it again.
Yeah, me too. (Shudders) as well as cleaning up assorted body fluids.
But what kind of antiseptic minstry (to say nothing of family life) allows a person to escape this kind of universal experience?
Better for them to roll up their sleeves and, er, suck it up.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Please, LC. Too much imagery. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Even for Hell.
[ 27. May 2016, 06:51: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
We had a minister visit our churches a few years ago, testing whether he was called to serve us. At one point during the "meet and greet" morning with tea and cakes there was great consternation that he had disappeared. He was meeting and greeting the ladies in the kitchen, with his arms in a sink washing dishes.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Lamb. That's orthogonal for me. I meant it. I was impressed. I'm not uncomfortable, with our discomfort, that between you and me. It's just so as with others here.
urban dictionary
Top Definition
trolling
Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.
Not guilty.
If you persist in projecting that, you are. But you can't help it.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Alan--
Sounds like a wise man. Did he get the job?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
No ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
A sizable minority at one of the churches decided he wasn't suitable. Superb preacher, highly educated ... even plays the organ. A gift for any congregation. But, some bigotted people took a visceral dislike to him, even without meeting him.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
LC.
That wasn't fair of me. You never troll. You won't troll, even if you have to react as you do to 'me', a persona. We're all Turing bots here. We're all Turing bots period! It's honestly beginning to feel like that. There's a detached me watching a LESSER, unreal, story me doing this, know what I mean?
Our lesser me's, mine and yours, brush each other up the wrong way. My more ... rarefied me, the minimal intelligence wants to reach out over the mad monkey me ... over yours to the real YOU.
HAH! It's ALL real, I realise. And evanescent. Good luck in trying to make your flock ... real.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Martin. Get a frying pan. Hit yourself in the head with it. Hard. Really hard. Just fucking do It!
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
NP, get a grip. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Martin, if you're for real, what you need to do is rebuild trust. And that's only going to happen if we can understand what the hell you're saying. I'm with Kelly--if you can ever be you for a sufficiently long period of time, I think I'd quite like you. But as long as you play verbal games with us, I'm going to be suspicious of everything you say. And nobody got time for that. I'll just scroll on by.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
LC. That's a long haul. Fair enough.
no... that would feeeel real.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
A grip on a cast iron frying pan. Swinging it does wonders for the biceps.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
He's already jumped from it.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have found that church people are not better than average well meaning people at helping others. And sometimes worse because they have to debate some meaningless wrong things.
Yes! I remember my former pastor lamenting this very thing. Seems that someone donated a very large chunk of money to all the pastors in the Atlanta area, some years back. The only stipulation was that the money was to go directly to the homeless and very poor. A series of meetings were held so that the pastors could (argue hotly) try to figure out how to distribute the money. Far too many of the pastors stood up and said, "We can't just give the poor and homeless people money! We have to ask for proper legal identification, they have to have a Social Security card, they need to get a letter from a church pastor...". On and on they argued. My ex-pastor was getting more and more angry and he finally leaped to his feet and said, "Did Jesus require proper identification? Did he arm the disciples with clipboards and have them check off a series of qualifications in order to be fed or get a housing voucher?" Others agreed with him but a whole lot more had a rebuttal, "But...if we don't make them show proper i.d. and have a letter from a pastor, how do we know they're not scamming the system?!"
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
We went carol singing in a rookery, in the middle of the wealthiest town in Britain six years running, one year. Every one who opened their door got ten quid. Of course if people were DESPERATE enough to pick up on it when they heard about it and opened the door when they wouldn't have done otherwise, God bless them.
Surely, just GO to the poor. And give. It's not difficult.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have found that church people are not better than average well meaning people at helping others. And sometimes worse because they have to debate some meaningless wrong things.
Yes! I remember my former pastor lamenting this very thing. Seems that someone donated a very large chunk of money to all the pastors in the Atlanta area, some years back. The only stipulation was that the money was to go directly to the homeless and very poor.
Couldn't the money have gone to a charity that assists the poor and homeless, or wouldn't that have been 'direct' enough?
There are homeless charities and other bodies which that advise against giving money to beggars. We had quite a few beggars who'd come to my old church to beg for money. The minister's policy was not to give money but to go with them to buy whatever it was they said they needed: food, a train ticket, some shoes, etc. It sounds paternalistic, but in many communities the concern about drug and alcohol abuse is justified. Enabling that lifestyle won't help the poor.
This desire not to enable destructive lifestyles is one reason why church food banks (as opposed to soup kitchens) in Britain don't hand out food to anyone who turns up; individuals have to be referred by social workers or other relevant bodies. If the need appears to be ongoing then the issues are obviously deeper than just the lack of bread and beans, etc., and advice is offered to help individuals address the root causes of their problem.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Give to EVERY one who asks.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Oh yes--but give WHAT? When we lived in a city parsonage and had beggars at the door all the time, we gave--but not cash or easily-turned-into-cash goods like canned stuff and diapers (to adults with no visible children). It was pretty damned clear that most of those asking for money were wanting drugs and alcohol, and having lived with an alcoholic, I'm really loath to contribute to someone's death that way. So we gave foodstuffs that could not be re-sold--cooked people lunch and served it to them, then and there--occasionally offered Vietnamese food (aka stir-fry with rice etc.) with the idea that anyone truly hungry would eat it, at which point we would reconsider giving money etc. (Only once did we ever get a taker--usually they cussed us out instead. The one who said "yes" and ate got 50 bucks out of us, as we figured that was a real one.)
Not everybody who came to Jesus asking got the thing they asked for. There was one guy who wanted Jesus' backup in a family fight over the inheritance, for instance (Luke 12). Jesus flatly refused to give him any opinion at all on the issue and handed him good counsel on the subject of coveting, which I make no doubt was very unwelcome. But it was what he needed, even if it wasn't what he wanted.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
After reading the Ship on giving, we (local church) set up a system to give a voucher redeemable at a local café which serves a basic hot meal and non-alcoholic drinks from 6am to around 5pm, same family run a kebab shop that's open to midnight, again no alcohol. The agreement with the café was that the church wandered past and refunded them afterwards. We had some takers.
We worked in the house next door to the church so were in the same position of having the doorbell rung with people asking for help and money all the time. We had a policy of no money for similar reasons, but we didn't want to turn away the hungry. (Other things we'd make the calls and get them to the help they needed.)
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
THAT'S intelligent giving, intelligent compassion LC.
Twice I've given guys money and watched them go and do drug deals. One guy came back and OFFERED me some!
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) that must be rather like our people who think they're doing the church a favor by giving their offering in the form of lottery tickets.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Then you know what to do?!
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh yes--but give WHAT? When we lived in a city parsonage and had beggars at the door all the time, we gave--but not cash or easily-turned-into-cash goods like canned stuff and diapers (to adults with no visible children). It was pretty damned clear that most of those asking for money were wanting drugs and alcohol, and having lived with an alcoholic, I'm really loath to contribute to someone's death that way. So we gave foodstuffs that could not be re-sold--cooked people lunch and served it to them, then and there--occasionally offered Vietnamese food (aka stir-fry with rice etc.) with the idea that anyone truly hungry would eat it, at which point we would reconsider giving money etc. (Only once did we ever get a taker--usually they cussed us out instead. The one who said "yes" and ate got 50 bucks out of us, as we figured that was a real one.)
Not everybody who came to Jesus asking got the thing they asked for. There was one guy who wanted Jesus' backup in a family fight over the inheritance, for instance (Luke 12). Jesus flatly refused to give him any opinion at all on the issue and handed him good counsel on the subject of coveting, which I make no doubt was very unwelcome. But it was what he needed, even if it wasn't what he wanted.
Must be a cross-pond difference. I follow a similar policy both with the church ministry with the homeless I head up and with my own personal response to street beggars. My return rate is more like 60/40 (60 being those who gratefully accept a gift of food)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Which isn't to say those who accept my gift of food aren't addicts-- at least half by our estimates are. But if they can't scam $$ for a score, they'll take the food. Which I figure keeps them alive for another day, increasing the chance one of the long term ministry partners we work with will get a chance to get to them.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
It's probably our neighborhood. Gangs and drugs up the wazoo. We didn't run into many "real" beggars, probably because of our location. And of course we had the usual effect where you get scammed by one addict and the next day 64 show up (only a slight exaggeration).
With the really hungry (by our previously mentioned gauge), we noticed no difference in the number of people asking the next week. From which I conclude that there is a drug network in the neighborhood. As if we didn't know that already...
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Since I missed the edit window--
Very few of our beggars appeared to be malnourished, threadbare, or even as badly off as my husband and I (who were both full-time students at the time, as well as serving a parish). I'm fairly sure they were getting food stamps at the minimum and probably a fair bit more from other government supports, which were considerably more generous in those days. Plus these were all adults between the ages of say 25 and 45, none visibly disabled, and many of the men were six feet tall and heavily muscled. None appeared to be homeless, and none claimed to be either. What we usually got was a pitch about how they desperately needed 100$ for a bus ticket to their aunty's funeral out of town, or to buy gas for same reason, or (from the women) to buy diapers for several children not in evidence (and no, cloth diapers were not welcome).
It was fairly common to get cussed out or menaced by these people. If we gave them good but unsalable food, we sometimes found it abandoned on the steps. And we heard endless stories about how they used to work at our very church, years ago, for the "Father." (We were Lutheran and had been so since 1926.)
This is why we were so unwilling to simply hand out the $ (or salable canned goods) and let the chips fall where they might. And when you consider that very few were the least bit willing to have social services involved in their cases--and we were doing the traditional "student living on rice and seminary food pantry" thing--well, it got a bit old.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Answering my own last question: start a church lottery!
Brilliantly, courageously handled LC. America is on steroids.
I had some poor woman ask me for electricity to keep her lizard warm. I laughed in disbelief, not nastily, just sadly. I had a guy ask me for my wedding ring as I had no cash. I just smiled. In the same park where two guys with the biggest bottle of White Lightning you ever did see asked me for something to eat. I was going home to eat a bowl of raw carrots. I had a guy ask me for a pound on Friday. I had a tenner. So I said I didn't have a pound. Part of me felt compromised. But the larger part didn't. And I love this guy. He'd brought along a young Portuguese single mother with her baby he'd found trying to get help from another church nearby. Both of them told me the same story independently. He with a strong local accent (Less-sto'), hers Portuguese. They couldn't have colluded without a translator. She was told by the person who responded at the other church not to tell them her story. I could call down fire. And on Social Services. One of whom walked with us as female escort to the dosshouse as she's in the congregation and a volunteer. She told us how utterly helpless she feels in her job. It's a funny old world.
Another guy got the tenner. A skinny volunteer. He hadn't eaten. The trick is never to bring money, it'll burn through your pocket. Wish it'd been a bloody fiver. The trouble is I came with none, but the boss, who like me before her when I was the boss, strongly lays down the law on forbidding the giving of money, DID listen to the young mother and looked at me and I went and got the money. Then when we got to the dosshouse I put it on the card and gave her some of the cash. I mean, I'm not STUPID with money.
And as for the guy who asked for a quid, which I did try to get off the boss who was broke, that was after he stared me in the eye with his one and the resurgent melanoma in the other empty socket - it's grown from nothing to a small half walnut in the two weeks since I last saw him - he asked me if I believed in our Lord Jesus Christ and I said yes and he burst in to tears and told me that with the tumour coming back Jesus had told him not to worry but go and do something for someone. And he'd found the girl and brought her to us after the rejection elsewhere. We just held on to each other. And then he asked for the quid. For the bus I'm sure. For real. Back to his own home and his wife and more money than he knows what to do with. So he's told me.
Laugh or cry? I did both with him.
The girl was OK according to the boss this morning.
It's never as coherent as the good Samaritan is it? And as you all know, the first time I did that for real in the park, I got beaten senseless.
As for calling down fire, there's a cluster of parishes near Jodrell Bank that could do with Lucifer's Hammer.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Very few of our beggars appeared to be malnourished, threadbare, or even as badly off as my husband and I (who were both full-time students at the time, as well as serving a parish). I'm fairly sure they were getting food stamps at the minimum and probably a fair bit more from other government supports, which were considerably more generous in those days. Plus these were all adults between the ages of say 25 and 45, none visibly disabled, and many of the men were six feet tall and heavily muscled. None appeared to be homeless, and none claimed to be either. What we usually got was a pitch about how they desperately needed 100$ for a bus ticket to their aunty's funeral out of town, or to buy gas for same reason, or (from the women) to buy diapers for several children not in evidence (and no, cloth diapers were not welcome).
We run a large homeless shelter so most of the folks we are working with are homeless. I'm sure many of the folks panhandling by the offramps with "homeless" signs aren't-- but many I do recognize from the shelter.
Some of the folks we get at the shelter look surprisingly well put together. Some are even sporting their belongings around in smart luggage rather than the traditional shopping cart-- as if they were off on a Club Med vacation. Sometimes that is someone scamming a free stay, but other times it's just a reflection of the fact that people are falling into homelessness in a variety of ways and sometimes quite suddenly.
There is a good deal of scamming going on. But there is a good deal of need as well. And the line between the two is not as clear as we'd like. Most people who fall into homelessness do so for a reason, often some stupid mistake they made somewhere along the line. But I make stupid mistakes too-- I was just lucky about when I made them or who was around to catch me when I did. The more I work with the homeless and get to know them, the less I can think of it in black-and-white terms. There are no "deserving poor" and "undeserving poor" but a whole lotta people who are suffering.
I'm not saying this so much for you Lamb, because I know you and Mr Lamb are giving your lives to this cause. But more fighting against a mentality I've seen more and more and the running narrative that giving to homelessness is throwing your money away.
As I said, I do agree that giving in kind rather than cash is smart, as is giving to established local organizations that work with the homeless. Again, my success rate there has been much better-- and I figure the 60/40 ratio is about right, and a good enough measure to screen out most scammers. If a few get past me, I don't mind. The social worker at our shelter reminds me that our mentally ill clients are "self-medicating", and that our addicted ones are often so far gone they're at a point where a night w/o booze outside of a medical facility could be deadly.
We don't want to be gullible fools-- but we also need to guard against the callousness and hardness that blinds us to what God might call us to do. And we're not responsible to make sure everyone spends the $$ in the "right" ways, we're responsible to care-- and to give.
(fyi: cloth diapers are worthless if you don't have access to laundry facilities-- very expensive to keep clean in a laundrymat. Same with canned goods if you don't have a kitchen-- or, in many cases, a can opener.)
[ 05. June 2016, 23:00: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Cliffdweller.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
... and Martin as well.
Lamb, I am always struck by your ministry.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I think maybe there's some confusion. Our askers were not homeless, nor did they claim to be. They were local. They had apartments--lousy ones i'm sure-- but with running water etc and at least one bathtub per family ( which is where our immigrant folks routinely did laundry). some may have had shared basement laundry facilities, which is a common setup here. Homelessness is a horrible thing, but that was emphatically NOT what we were dealing with.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
(fyi: cloth diapers are worthless if you don't have access to laundry facilities-- very expensive to keep clean in a laundrymat. Same with canned goods if you don't have a kitchen-- or, in many cases, a can opener.)
Thanks for the reminder! Every once in a while I buy a couple dozen can openers at the dollar store (they're really pretty sturdy) and take to the food bank which our church supports. I need to do that this week.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I think maybe there's some confusion. Our askers were not homeless, nor did they claim to be. They were local. They had apartments--lousy ones i'm sure-- but with running water etc and at least one bathtub per family ( which is where our immigrant folks routinely did laundry). some may have had shared basement laundry facilities, which is a common setup here. Homelessness is a horrible thing, but that was emphatically NOT what we were dealing with.
Figured it was something like that. As I said, I have nothing but respect for you and Mr Lamb and your ministry
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
(fyi: cloth diapers are worthless if you don't have access to laundry facilities-- very expensive to keep clean in a laundrymat. Same with canned goods if you don't have a kitchen-- or, in many cases, a can opener.)
Thanks for the reminder! Every once in a while I buy a couple dozen can openers at the dollar store (they're really pretty sturdy) and take to the food bank which our church supports. I need to do that this week.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
My apologies for being a crabby-butt. I've got food poisoning or something like it!
Crabby-butt? Is that like 'vindaloo bum', or 'curry burn', as in 'I had a really hot curry last night, and today you could use my arse to land airplanes at night!'?
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Montezuma's Revenge?
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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