Thread: Fuck You, Pastor, for bringing the gospel into disrepute Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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What the fuck is wrong with people?
(Short version for people who can't click after every meal: reader board in front of church says "WAKE UP CHRISTIANS / ALLAH IS NOT OUR GOD / MOHAMMED IS NOT GREATER THAN JESUS" on one side, and a similar message about the Bible and the Quran on the other side.
The pastor is so self-righteously "not politically correct." And the comments on Farcebark crow about how the "leftists" (they use this term almost like a longshoreman uses "fuck" to flavor every single sentence they say) are Muslim-loving Jesus-haters etc. yada.
I say this kind of thing brings the Gospel of Jesus Christ into disrepute. It turns people off God. It makes a mockery of Christ's message of love.
Dear Pastor Jerk: God's name is blasphemed among the nations because of you.
(And that's not even getting into the pig-ignorance of it. It's like saying "Christians worship GOD not DIOS.")
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
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From the article:
"Harrington says he harbors no hate towards Muslims or Islam, only that he's trying to educate others about his religion."
If this idiot had any sort of education, he'd know that "Allah" is simply the Arabic name for "God" and that Arabic Christians worship Allah.
Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on
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Harrowing, the man.
Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on
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I suppose 'Mohammad not greater than Jesus' just sounded snappier than 'Christians affirm that Jesus was, is and ever shall be God, three-in-one with the Holy Spirit, and so all comparisons to humans (prophets or otherwise) are off'.
Maybe he ran out of 'e's before he got to the end.
Anyway, isn't Welsh meant to be the language of heaven?
[ 16. May 2016, 09:08: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on
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Only if you like an abundance of consonants.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Well, if you run out of 'e' and other vowels ...
Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on
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Good point, Mr Llwellyn, good point.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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Rumor has it that Welsh and Hawai'ian were once one language. When they split, Welsh got custody of the consonants, and Hawai'ian the vowels.
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on
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There is an 'e' in 'Llewellyn'.
Come on, the Welsh have just as many (if not more) vowels than anyone else.
It's just that they denote them differently.
I mean, 'w' is mostly used as a vowel sound in Welsh.
Mind you, as to when a 'y' sounds like a 'u' and when it sounds like a 'y' and so on - and all the mutations with consonants that follow vowel sounds ... now you're talking complicated.
But then, I en no Welsh-speaker, I dah oarnly talk tidy, Wenglish like.
But I know how it should be said and sound.
As for the pastor in the OP ...
Cachau bant.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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I don't know, I do think it is possible to over-react about these things. Muslims have rather a habit of declaring that their faith is better than everyone else's.*
But then the Sikhs sometimes like to tell the world about why their faith is best, as did various historic churches (thinking of doom paintings). I'm sure there are many other examples from other religions.
It is a marketplace of religion, why is anyone surprised when they try to rubbish each other?
Personally, I'm much more comfortable with a religious group who resorts to putting up a sign saying why another religion is wrong rather than one which gets into the business of burning other religious books or provoking other forms of inter-religious strife.
*remembering, for example, that the Dome of the Rock mosque in Jerusalem has text on it which seems to be directed at Christians "So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth." etc
[ 16. May 2016, 12:52: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
Anyway, isn't Welsh meant to be the language of heaven?
No. God's native tongue is Hebrew, with Latin as his second language.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
No. God's native tongue is Hebrew, with Latin as his second language.
I'm pretty sure Jesus' first language was Aramaic, that he lived in a culture which used Latin and Greek and whose Dad spoke Temple Hebrew.
Of course, as we all know, by the 17 century, God had gone back to school and learned English.
These days I think he prefers to be addressed in Klingon.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
It is a marketplace of religion, why is anyone surprised when they try to rubbish each other?
Who said anything about surprise? No, I'm not surprised. I'm disgusted. I can't speak for Muslims, but Christians are meant to love even their enemies, not denigrate them and belittle them. And if you think this sign is merely meant to be a theological announcement that Christians don't accept Muhammad as a prophet, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Who said anything about surprise? No, I'm not surprised. I'm disgusted. I can't speak for Muslims, but Christians are meant to love even their enemies, not denigrate them and belittle them. And if you think this sign is merely meant to be a theological announcement that Christians don't accept Muhammad as a prophet, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Oh I also think it is the antithesis of the gospel. I just don't have time to get angry about things like that.
When I contacted the local mosque to ask if I could buy a Koran to replace one that a previous idiot pastor had burned, it was fairly clear that they didn't much give a shit either.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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This kind of thing exacerbates hatred and adds to an atmosphere that gives rise ultimately to hate crimes.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
These days I think he prefers to be addressed in Klingon.
Per "Star Trek: The Next Generation", the Klingon Adam and Eve killed their creator, on something like a "We don't need no stinkin' God!" basis.
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on
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And in the febrile atmosphere that is the USA at the moment, with Trump demagogue-ing about, dumb-ass pastors posting dumb-ass signs isn't going to help matters.
I'm not sure I'd advocate a law against this sort of thing - at least not in that kind of context - but it ain't going to help.
There are plenty of ways of saying, 'Look, we are Christians, this is what we believe ...' without bad-mouthing anyone else.
Mind you, as Mousethief well knows, look at any Orthodox / RC / Protestant 'dialogue' on some social media sites and all you'll get is, 'No, you're wrong ... we're right ...' to which the other side will reply, 'No, it's us who're right and you that are wrong ...' and round and round and round and round ad infinitum ...
Not that there's anything wrong with that in and of itself, but it does get wearing when all it becomes is a rehashing of cliches and often false perceptions that each has of the other ...
Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on
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quote:
It is a marketplace of religion, why is anyone surprised when they try to rubbish each other?
Is Don King still around?
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
This kind of thing exacerbates hatred and adds to an atmosphere that gives rise ultimately to hate crimes.
This.
It reminds me of folks who claim they don't "hate" homosexuals but tacitly add to a hateful environment for LGBT people.
Besides what does he expect Arabic speaking Christians to call God? "God"? "Deus"? "Dieu"?
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
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quote:
Lyda*Rose: Besides what does he expect Arabic speaking Christians to call God?
Duh, *real* Christians speak English.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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I had a neighbour who was an Arabic speaking Christian, but she went crazy if you said that she was an Arab. Well, I thought that 'Arab' meant Arabic-speaking, but according to her, Arabs are all Muslim, and handy with a gun. But she did call God Allah.
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on
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quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Lyda*Rose: Besides what does he expect Arabic speaking Christians to call God?
Duh, *real* Christians speak English.
Or Russian. Or, at a pinch, Greek.
Never Latin. Never, never Latin. Or German. Or [shudder] Dutch....
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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But yesterday's reading from Acts (which I had the joy of reading at our main service) says that they were:
quote:
Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs...
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't know, I do think it is possible to over-react about these things. Muslims have rather a habit of declaring that their faith is better than everyone else's.*
But then the Sikhs sometimes like to tell the world about why their faith is best, as did various historic churches (thinking of doom paintings). I'm sure there are many other examples from other religions.
It is a marketplace of religion, why is anyone surprised when they try to rubbish each other?
For me, this is a reason why we Christians shouldn't be doing this. Yes, the Muslims and Sikhs will claim that their faith is the best, but we shouldn't get into a slanging match.
The thing that really annoys me about this is that we should be seekers after truth. Wherever this truth is found. The essence of these messages I would actually agree with the basis of the message (that the Muslim God is not the Christian God, that the Quran is a book), but this is not the defining aspect of my faith, this is not what I want to proclaim.
Incidentally, Islam is a way of seeing and understanding God that can help us - Seekers of Truth - to understand our interpretation. The Quran is a book, not written or dictated by God. The Bible is also a book, written by people about their search for God.
I think the Bible and the Christian interpretation of God is primary. But that doesn't mean that I need to disparage others.
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I had a neighbour who was an Arabic speaking Christian, but she went crazy if you said that she was an Arab. Well, I thought that 'Arab' meant Arabic-speaking, but according to her, Arabs are all Muslim, and handy with a gun. But she did call God Allah.
I thought Arab was a native of the Arabian Peninsula.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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Not every pastor who has a marquee sign out front for his pithy thoughts is an idiot. But every idiotic pastor has a marquee sign out front for his pithy thoughts.
We often pass one on our way to the next town, and no matter how hard we try we cannot read the whole thing as we pass while going the speed limit. Nevertheless, I make my husband risk our lives by slowing down because the message is invariably hilariously inane, illogical or pointless. Yesterday it said, "If you ever have to wrestle with God, pray that you lose."
Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on
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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I had a neighbour who was an Arabic speaking Christian, but she went crazy if you said that she was an Arab. Well, I thought that 'Arab' meant Arabic-speaking, but according to her, Arabs are all Muslim, and handy with a gun. But she did call God Allah.
I thought Arab was a native of the Arabian Peninsula.
Apparently it's complicated.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I had a neighbour who was an Arabic speaking Christian, but she went crazy if you said that she was an Arab. Well, I thought that 'Arab' meant Arabic-speaking, but according to her, Arabs are all Muslim, and handy with a gun. But she did call God Allah.
That's interesting. I know a fair number of Arab Christians. They refer to themselves as Arab Christians, when not referring to themselves as Palestinians.
Pastors like this pustule had best not come to our church at Pascha, or they will hear "Lord have Mercy" in Arabic, as well as "Christ is risen / indeed he is risen" in Arabic, and the Paschal Troparion in Arabic (the latter: "Christ is risen from the dead trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life" but I can't sing it in Arabic without the music in front of me).
The Paschal Troparian, from a flash mob at a shopping mall in Beirut, in Arabic and Greek.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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That was beautiful. I will store the address.
However, the second time I played it, it went on to another Arabic Christian hymn, and my computer seized up and buzzed fiercely at me, so I had to do an emergency stop and start everything up again. I don't know if this was because of the site, or something else yet.
[ 18. May 2016, 11:54: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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You probably triggered some CIA alert (too many Arabic sites) and they're busy uploading some software agents to find out what your links to terrorist organisations are.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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Wow, that's beautiful. I could almost re-convert.
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pastors like this pustule had best not come to our church at Pascha, or they will hear "Lord have Mercy" in Arabic, as well as "Christ is risen / indeed he is risen" in Arabic, and the Paschal Troparion in Arabic . . . .
Somehow, I suspect that the chances of pastors like this one setting foot in an Orthodox church—at Pascha or any other time—are exceedingly low. So there's at least one thing to be grateful for.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
You probably triggered some CIA alert (too many Arabic sites) and they're busy uploading some software agents to find out what your links to terrorist organisations are.
!!!
I've just replayed - I had been reminded of the doleful "evangelism" the Exclusive Brethren had tried hereabouts, and thought how the good news should be.
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
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Meanwhile we've got one here proving that being a man of the cloth doesn't stop you being a despicable little turd: shit of a vicar
Posted by irish_lord99 (# 16250) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pastors like this pustule had best not come to our church at Pascha, or they will hear "Lord have Mercy" in Arabic, as well as "Christ is risen / indeed he is risen" in Arabic,
Hehe... we got them to do that in Turkish in our Greek Orthodox Church here... it's a bit like Gandalf speaking the Dark language of Mordor in Rivendale: the walls shake, the sky grows dark, and a look of concern adorns every face. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pastors like this pustule had best not come to our church at Pascha, or they will hear "Lord have Mercy" in Arabic, as well as "Christ is risen / indeed he is risen" in Arabic,
Hehe... we got them to do that in Turkish in our Greek Orthodox Church here... it's a bit like Gandalf speaking the Dark language of Mordor in Rivendale: the walls shake, the sky grows dark, and a look of concern adorns every face.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on
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What's with these oh so obviously unspontaneous flash-mobs in shopping mall things?
There are evangelical versions, Orthodox versions ... everybody seems to be staging them ... and staging is the operative word ...
Sure, the music's cool but it's no more spontaneous than changing the guard at Buckingham Palace.
Enough of this stage-managed false spontaneity already.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
What's with these oh so obviously unspontaneous flash-mobs in shopping mall things?
There are evangelical versions, Orthodox versions ... everybody seems to be staging them ... and staging is the operative word ...
Sure, the music's cool but it's no more spontaneous than changing the guard at Buckingham Palace.
Enough of this stage-managed false spontaneity already.
What makes you think they're meant to be spontaneous? And what makes spontaneity such a god in your eyes? Nobody in their right mind thinks they're spontaneous, particularly when they make use of the shopping mall's tannoy. Hence nobody in their right mind thinks they're meant to come across as spontaneous.
"Oh yes, I just happened to be walking down the square with my cello and saw a bunch of people playing "Ode to Joy" and thought I'd join in." No. Nobody expects that's what's going on.
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
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The cool thing is that an unexpected (to those who witness it) performance pops up in a mundane moment and place. Musical theater comes to the streets/malls/metro stations. The world becomes a lower key version of Bollywood.
I like it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Meanwhile we've got one here proving that being a man of the cloth doesn't stop you being a despicable little turd: shit of a vicar
Oh good, one of my brother clerics in the Church in Wales. Glad he's in another diocese, my chances of meeting him and explaining my view of his views are much reduced... ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
"Oh yes, I just happened to be walking down the square with my cello and saw a bunch of people playing "Ode to Joy" and thought I'd join in." No. Nobody expects that's what's going on.
But wouldn't it be fun to live in a world like that?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
The cool thing is that an unexpected (to those who witness it) performance pops up in a mundane moment and place. Musical theater comes to the streets/malls/metro stations. The world becomes a lower key version of Bollywood.
I like it.
Exactly. I'd love to have one happen where I am.
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on
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It's the way these things are filmed and edited, MT, to make it look like they are spontaneous when they aren't.
I'm not saying spontaneity is a big deal. I just don't like faux-spontaneity.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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If I didn't like you I'd say you were an idiot. Let's just say you're speaking foolishly.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Flash mobs are a performance. And, like any performance, to be done well requires rehearsal. Therefore, they are not "spontaneous". But, done well they appear spontaneous.
It's no different from theatre. When the actor playing Hamlet starts to question "To be, or not to be ..." if he's good then we are able to suspend our actual knowledge that he's said this a thousand times, and feel like he really is Hamlet, that he really is contemplating death and suicide and these really are the new-formed thoughts he has. But, I guess Hamlet is also "faux-spontaneity".
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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AIUI, they're not necessarily rehearsed as a group. Someone may put out a notice that there'll be a dance flash mob, include a video of how to do the dance, and tell the time and place. Then people who see the notice and want to participate just practice on their own, and show up.
And sometimes it's a matter of "show up here, wearing this".
[ 27. May 2016, 03:15: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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I didn't say rehearsal needed to be as a group. I doubt the lead in Hamlet only ever rehearses with the rest of the cast. But, if you're going to claim they are examples "faux spontaneity" then you need to be fair and say the same of Hamlet.
Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on
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The thing that does look spontaneous in that video is some members of the public or staff who recognize the setting joining in. You can tell they aren't "performing" in the same way that those who were planned to be there are. And the looks of delight and/or amazement on some faces are obviously spontaneous.
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on
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Yeah, ok ... perhaps it's some of the more evangelical versions I've seen of this sort of thing that puts me off.
Besides, whilst I appreciate that they'll have shopping malls in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria (apart from where they've been bombed) and so on, it doesn't look right ... out ro be a souk or a bazaar ...
Ok, I'm teasing but I hate f'kin' shopping malls.
Posted by deano (# 12063) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What the fuck is wrong with people?
(Short version for people who can't click after every meal: reader board in front of church says "WAKE UP CHRISTIANS / ALLAH IS NOT OUR GOD / MOHAMMED IS NOT GREATER THAN JESUS" on one side, and a similar message about the Bible and the Quran on the other side.
The pastor is so self-righteously "not politically correct." And the comments on Farcebark crow about how the "leftists" (they use this term almost like a longshoreman uses "fuck" to flavor every single sentence they say) are Muslim-loving Jesus-haters etc. yada.
I say this kind of thing brings the Gospel of Jesus Christ into disrepute. It turns people off God. It makes a mockery of Christ's message of love.
Dear Pastor Jerk: God's name is blasphemed among the nations because of you.
(And that's not even getting into the pig-ignorance of it. It's like saying "Christians worship GOD not DIOS.")
I like him.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What the fuck is wrong with people?
(Short version for people who can't click after every meal: reader board in front of church says "WAKE UP CHRISTIANS / ALLAH IS NOT OUR GOD / MOHAMMED IS NOT GREATER THAN JESUS" on one side, and a similar message about the Bible and the Quran on the other side.
The pastor is so self-righteously "not politically correct." And the comments on Farcebark crow about how the "leftists" (they use this term almost like a longshoreman uses "fuck" to flavor every single sentence they say) are Muslim-loving Jesus-haters etc. yada.
I say this kind of thing brings the Gospel of Jesus Christ into disrepute. It turns people off God. It makes a mockery of Christ's message of love.
Dear Pastor Jerk: God's name is blasphemed among the nations because of you.
(And that's not even getting into the pig-ignorance of it. It's like saying "Christians worship GOD not DIOS.")
I like him.
Oh look what the cat brought in. DO NOT respond people. He only does it because he knows it teases.
Posted by deano (# 12063) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What the fuck is wrong with people?
(Short version for people who can't click after every meal: reader board in front of church says "WAKE UP CHRISTIANS / ALLAH IS NOT OUR GOD / MOHAMMED IS NOT GREATER THAN JESUS" on one side, and a similar message about the Bible and the Quran on the other side.
The pastor is so self-righteously "not politically correct." And the comments on Farcebark crow about how the "leftists" (they use this term almost like a longshoreman uses "fuck" to flavor every single sentence they say) are Muslim-loving Jesus-haters etc. yada.
I say this kind of thing brings the Gospel of Jesus Christ into disrepute. It turns people off God. It makes a mockery of Christ's message of love.
Dear Pastor Jerk: God's name is blasphemed among the nations because of you.
(And that's not even getting into the pig-ignorance of it. It's like saying "Christians worship GOD not DIOS.")
I like him.
Oh look what the cat brought in. DO NOT respond people. He only does it because he knows it teases.
Nope. It's not trolling if one believes in what one posts.
I think most folk know my feelings on "the religion of peace" to NOT be surprised at my response.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Oh we know.
If deano likes him he must be really far of the mark.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
What the fuck is wrong with people?
(Short version for people who can't click after every meal: reader board in front of church says "WAKE UP CHRISTIANS / ALLAH IS NOT OUR GOD / MOHAMMED IS NOT GREATER THAN JESUS" on one side, and a similar message about the Bible and the Quran on the other side.
The pastor is so self-righteously "not politically correct." And the comments on Farcebark crow about how the "leftists" (they use this term almost like a longshoreman uses "fuck" to flavor every single sentence they say) are Muslim-loving Jesus-haters etc. yada.
I say this kind of thing brings the Gospel of Jesus Christ into disrepute. It turns people off God. It makes a mockery of Christ's message of love.
Dear Pastor Jerk: God's name is blasphemed among the nations because of you.
(And that's not even getting into the pig-ignorance of it. It's like saying "Christians worship GOD not DIOS.")
I like him.
Posted at 21:47. That's an early return from the pub.
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on
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Yes indeed. To all it's other faults, Islam has added this - an antipathy towards alcohol.
Deano is enough to make me want to sign the Pledge.
Posted by deano (# 12063) on
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Here you go. The "religion of peace"...
Pakistani husbands can lightly beat their wives islamic council says
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Here you go. The "religion of peace"...
Pakistani husbands can lightly beat their wives islamic council says
You just googled that without bothering to read the article, didn't you? You don't actually care what it says, it's just enough that the headline feeds your bigotry and malice.
Of course, Muslims have access to google too (potentially NSFW), and we end up in a morass of No True Scotsman statements.
In short, fuck off you tiny-minded turdmonger.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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What an antiquated and barbaric law. We haven't had anything like that in Christendom since, well, since ...
As recently as 1977, the California Penal Code stated that wives charging husbands with criminal assault and battery must suffer more injuries than commonly needed for charges of battery.
Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on
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It wasn't until the 1990s and 2000s that marital rape became a crime throughout Christendom. And even now, it's often treated as a lesser crime than a "real" rape. More details here.
So, yeah, a headline about spousal abuse in a Muslim country proves what, exactly?
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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It proves deano is a dick. But, we didn't need any more evidence to prove that.
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