Ship of Fools: Lament for Lost Laws

Thread: Lament for Lost Laws Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=029990

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

With the UK choosing to leave the EU. Many laws are going to be at risk which we in the UK have taken for granted.

I think the one that most concerns me is the one that protects Bees from being poisoned by pesticides.

pesticides.

Which ones concern you?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

I'd be interested to see what happens regarding greenhouse gas emissions.

Given that IMO there is a significant overlap between the Brexit Tories and the phenomena of Climate Denial, I'm thinking it is likely that leaving the EU means abandoning the EU's promises.

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

I think various discrimination laws will either in the future not exist or be watered down..

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

The law that means if they keep you on a rolling temp / fixed term contract for over two years you become permenant staff with redundancy rights etc.

It'll go, from then on expect job security to go down the toilet.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
The law that means if they keep you on a rolling temp / fixed term contract for over two years you become permenant staff with redundancy rights etc.

It'll go, from then on expect job security to go down the toilet.

Along with the paid holiday guarantee (especially for part-time staff and those on zero-hours contracts) and the Working Time Directive.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

The UK no longer being part of the EU would mean it becoming a third country under the latter's Data Protection Directive. I'm not sure exactly what effects that would have, except that I got an e-mail from my web hosting firm saying they would consider hosting solutions "within the EU" if needs be.

I'm not sure where it leaves the right to be forgotten for UK residents, either.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Oh, there goes the Water Framework Directive, too.

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

Why would leaving the EU change the Employment Rights Act (which mandates 28 days' leave per annum, rather than the 20 days under the Working Time Directive)?

M.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Because the act will have to be amended, which then allows dergulations junkies to say - why do we need a regulation, surely it can just be specified in the employment contract to which both parties give their free and informed consent ? (Whilst totally ignoring that you get your benefits withdrawn if you turn down job offers.)

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

I'm not an employment lawyer, so I'm outside my proper sphere of knowledge here, but I don't see why the Act would need to be amended - as far as I'm aware, it's not dependent on the Directive.

But as I say, it's not my area of law, so I'm happy to be shown I'm wrong.

M.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

AIUI it's not that it would have to be amended, but that the requirement for EU law to be transposed into UK domestic law has just disappeared, so it, like all other laws including such transpositions, can be amended. This is one of the area of law where that's most likely, I'd think.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Sir Bill Cash on Radio 4's Today programme on Saturday morning discussed a process for checking through laws from the EU and deciding which to keep and which not, (but I wasn't terribly with it, and I'm not listening again on a phone on a train to find out, because I prefer not upsetting my fellow travellers). He definitely had thought it through at some point because he was quite clear.

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

I would have been interested to hear that, CK.

An EU Directive has to be transposed into domestic law - often into secondary legislation. So, the Working Time Directive, for instance (or parts of, I assume), are brought into English law (and Scottish, possibly) by the Working Time Regulations. Secondary legislation depends on primary legislation - not sure what the primary legislation is, I'll have to check.

But other laws are brought in via primary legislation, like the Competition Act, and I see no reason why leaving the EU should make any difference to primary legislation.

An EU Regulation, which seems to be the preferred way of proceeding these days, has direct effect and does not need domestic legislation. I find these very difficult to grapple with because they are so different from how legislation usually works in common-law countries, they always seem rather vague and good-intention-y to me.

It's anyone's guess what happens about EU Regulations.

Disclaimer: I am not a constitutional or EU lawyer.

M.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

The EU-US Open Skies Agreement? Might affect the ability of UK-based low-cost carriers such as Ryanair and EasyJet to operate routes into France (or at least require renegotiated agreements).

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
Many laws are going to be at risk which we in the UK have taken for granted.

Then stop taking your laws for granted. Have you not noticed you have a Parliament?

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
Many laws are going to be at risk which we in the UK have taken for granted.

Then stop taking your laws for granted. Have you not noticed you have a Parliament?

yep,
but I have noticed, that much law particularly employment, environmental & trade law comes from the European Parliament & commission. Now we are leaving we are also leaving some of those laws or at least reducing their certainty.

I think we shall miss TUPE.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Someone needs to look at what the limit of the UK's territorial waters becomes outside the EU and the impact of the loss of EU funding for those bits.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Someone needs to look at what the limit of the UK's territorial waters becomes outside the EU and the impact of the loss of EU funding for those bits.

Territorial waters are determined by international law. Not by EU law.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I haven't looked this up, but from what I've heard the limit would be different for a non-EU country. And the related funding certainly would be different.

[ 28. June 2016, 15:28: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

The briefest of lookups suggests that the respective Exclusive Economic Zones of the UK and the EU would require renegotiation.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The briefest of lookups suggests that the respective Exclusive Economic Zones of the UK and the EU would require renegotiation.

I don't see why. There is nothing in that article that suggests there is such a thing as an EU exclusive economic zone. All someone has done is lump the zones of various EU countries into a single map. The actual text of the article makes it pretty clear that each country has its own zone, as it must do under the relevant international treaty because the European Union is not a country and can't be party to such a treaty.

EU countries might "share" their zones for the purpose of the EU's internal affairs, but I doubt the UN commission that deals with territorial waters cares in the slightest.

[ 28. June 2016, 16:10: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36639261 We probably have these options.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I think, from my Oceanography course with the EU, that the Law of the Sea, which covers national waters, is a globally internationally decided thing (with some non-signatories). Presumably we revert to the status ante, barring the EU fisheries which have been sold our quotas by British fishers. (Think I heard that in the small hours last week.)

What a lot of work has been created for unelected bureaucrats sorting out the messes we have got into.

[ 28. June 2016, 21:42: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36639261 We probably have these options.

Seems like a neat summary, thanks.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0