Ship of Fools: Chess

Thread: Chess Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

Anyone following the 2016 Candidates Tournament?

Who will earn the right to challenge Magnus Carlsen? I reckon Fabiano Caruano after an impressive takedown of Vishy Anand in round 10.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

e2–e4

(Sorry, when I saw a Circus thread about chess, this is what I was expecting [Smile]

)

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. e4 e5
2. ...?

Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

OK then 2. Nf3

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nf6
3. ...?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I am very confused by this thread. When you post a move please specify wheher you are moving black or white. Also please give the full name of the piece.

Thanks

Doublethink
Circus Host

[ 28. March 2016, 00:36: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I belive the moves so far are:

1) White: pawn e2-e4
2) Black: knight g8-f6

If I have mind read correctly ...

(I am assuming this starting board viewed from the white player's perspective, and that the second move was intended to be the black queen's knight: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chess_board_blank.svg )

[ 28. March 2016, 09:04: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:

1) White: pawn e2-e4
2) Black: knight g8-f6

3) White: pawn g2-g3

[ 28. March 2016, 09:05: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

I think there have been four moves so far:

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6

Doublethink's move is still legitimate, so

3. White: pawn on g2 - g3
Standard notation can be found here

although if it makes it clearer we can spell out the moves in full as I have done above.

Current rules seem to be - anyone can contribute the next move! Maybe we should add: "please pick a side, Black or White, and only contribute moves for that side..."

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

I responded to LeRoc's opening move in a spirit of whimsy rather than with any particular set of rules in mind! If we actually play out a full game, great, but that wasn't necessarily my (or LeRoc's) intention. As TT suggests, I was posting in standard modern notation, but if writing in expanded notation will help people participate it's very little skin off my nose. I think I've only contributed black moves so far, so I'm happy to continue in that vein too, as we play this variation on Petrov's defense.

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.

[ 28. March 2016, 13:05: Message edited by: Adam. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

(LOL, I think I'd prefer to be Black with this opening.)

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

(Don't like White; pawn g2-g3.)

4. White; Pawn d2-d3. If you intend to fianchetto the white Kings Bishop, that looks logical.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: (Don't like White; pawn g2-g3.)

Neither do I. It seems that in all official matches where White did this, they ended up losing [Smile]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

It might transpose into some kind of reverse Kings Indian. If White is lucky ...

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on on f8 - c5.

5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight on f6 - g4

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4

(I don't think you have to play a specific colour but you must do the best for the side whose move you make. In my defence g2-g3 was me not understanding the notation and responding to a different board state. Following along with my travel chess board now.)

[ 04. April 2016, 20:56: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Great minds think alike [Smile]

If anyone has any doubts, Nf6-g4 it is.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Lol, my chess credentials are resurrected !

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Doublethink.: Lol, my chess credentials are resurrected !

It may still turn out to be a stupid move [Smile]

I played competition chess in secondary school but that was, erm, a couple of years ago.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I was afraid you were going to do that.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
(Haven't played this down here before. Any limits on consecutive moves by same player?)

Pretty sure none of us have, so no limits yet!

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I think that so long as you don't do two moves one after the other I we're fine. Playing with yourself is frowned upon in public [Biased]

[ 04. April 2016, 22:35: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

(lots of options for black, here, some leading to very complicated positions)

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Nah, I realise now that my move was daft. I always want to do knight-bishop attacks too early, which can be easily defended by moving a pawn forward, leading to a loss in tempo.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Honestly not sure. Rook and Pawn in exchange for bishop and knight and a disrupted kingside for white? That's not necessarily a bad deal, nor does black have to take the rook immediately. There is, potentially, a lot going on.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

A Knight and a Bishop are worth much more to me than a Rook and a pawn.

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook
9. White: Kg1-f2, taking Bishop

[On the usual valuation scale, pawn = 1 point, Bishop or Knight = 3 points, Rook = 5 points. So the exchanges are of about equal value.]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: [On the usual valuation scale, pawn = 1 point, Bishop or Knight = 3 points, Rook = 5 points. So the exchanges are of about equal value.]

I usually take a Rook to be around 4.5. What's more, most of White's pawns are on white spaces, rendering Black's remaining Bishop almost useless. Instead of the Knight-Bishop attack, I feel that Black should have developed its Queen side more.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Hmm, I had a lot of adventures for Black in mind, but I think it's better to play it safe here.

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook
9. White: Kg1-f2, taking Bishop; Black: pawn d7 - d6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook
9. White: Kg1-f2, taking Bishop; Black: pawn d7 - d6
10. White: Knight b1-c3

Travelling all day tomorrow, happy for someone else to play white moves.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

FYI I am considering this an experimental game thread, working out how to do crowd source circus chess - hopefully we'll end up being able to draw up a guidance post for future games.

DT, Circus Host

(People wanting to participate may find this tool useful: https://www.chess.com/analysis-board-editor )

[ 06. April 2016, 20:07: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook
9. White: Kg1-f2, taking Bishop; Black: pawn d7 - d6
10. White: Knight b1-c3; Black: Bishop from c8 - e6

(Realised I had set up my board with king and queen reversed, no wonder I was confused !)

[ 06. April 2016, 20:16: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Hosting point? Posts are going to get pretty long if we always post the complete game. I'm wondering if we could do it in 10 move chunks and just link to the previous 10?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think this is the current set-up. Maybe we could share that from time to time?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Unfortunately your link comes up blank for me, I am happy with the suggestion of 10 turn chunks linking back to the past position. But I suggest that the link is back to the previous post.

So post begining move 11 will start as follows:

quote:

Gamestate: Moves 1 to 10

11. Colour; Piece: k1-k3

Later on in the game, if it lasts, it will look like this:

quote:

Gamestate: Moves 1 to 10
Gamestate: Moves 11 to 20

21. Colour; Piece: q1-q3

[ 07. April 2016, 15:50: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate; moves 1-19

11. White: King f2-g1

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate; moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7

[Edited to change the 19 into a 10; I didn't change anything in my move]

[ 07. April 2016, 17:39: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Whoops, sorry

Gamestate; moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4

(I am enjoying following this along on my tiny travel chess set, like souped up postal chess [Smile]

)

[ 07. April 2016, 18:18: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3;

{This isn't an easy position)

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

DT

I'll be occupied all day Friday. It's my grandson's 8th birthday celebrations and we're doing lots of things.

Could you play White today (Friday)? Adam appears to have disappeared(!) so it's only you, LeRoc and me moving the wood around. Interesting position, now.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

OK, though anyone is welcome to make a move, providing they don't make two in a row.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Not quite disappeared, just a little busy!

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: Queen d7 - f5, taking pawn.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

BTW, this is the PGN code for the current state of play:

quote:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 Nc6 4. d3 Bc5 5. Be2 Ng4 6. O-O O-O 7. h3 Nxf2 8. Rxf2 Bxf2+ 9. Kxf2 d6 10. Nc3 Bxh3 11. Kg1 Qd7 12. Kh2 Nb4 13. Be3 f5 14. exf5 Qxf5 *

I know some of us know PGN and some don't. If you go to this site, you can copy and paste PGN and then view it (you need to use the arrows below the board to step through the moves; or the 'end' button to go right to the current position).

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Back from party games! Adam, you can't make that move. There is a black bishop on e6.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

The mistake is in your PGN record for black's 10th move. It was Be6 not Bxh3.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

...(ahem)

I'm not allowed to do two moves at once but Black's obvious response is 14. ...Bishop e6 x pawn f5. Do you think one of you might just have a little look to confirm?

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Sorry, typing what I'd have done rather than what actually happened! Agree, that's the logical next move for black. I'm guessing I can't move for white now, as that would be two in a row.

So, we have:

quote:

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.

[ETA Gamestate link, DT, Circus Host]

[ 08. April 2016, 19:41: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15.White: Pawn a2-a3;

[Note to Doublethink, since this is an experimental thread. I think Adam is right. PGN notation is in very common use now (e.g. newspaper chess columns) and is a lot less cumbersome. Suggest serious consideration to using that as a standard for any future games]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6

This is turning into a very nice position for White.

[To Barnabus's point: a midway suggestion might be to right out the move that you're making in long form, but to give the moves so far in PGN. That would mean that each player would abbreviate the previous player's move. I think this could be a good check against misreading the board position, whilst giving us a concise summary of what's happened so far (which could also be fed into a website to visualize the board).]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Potentially we could do this if the opening post of a new thread, with thread rules when we develop the,, included a link to a full explanation of the notation.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

a4 ?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Sorry. That's Knight f3-h4! Was playing blind and mixed up the columns. I visualised where I should put it!

DT do you mind editing my post?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: bishop f5 - h3, taking pawn.
17. White: Bishop g2 x Bishop h3

(Don't see anything of value in that sacrifice. Was it just a blunder? Or am I missing something?)

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: (Don't see anything of value in that sacrifice. Was it just a blunder? Or am I missing something?)

I think it was. Not much in the mood to play for Black now [Smile]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I understand that. Looks like White gets 3 pieces for a rook and two pawns, which is about a piece down for Black. Some dynamic possibilities with that central pawn mass I suppose. But White ought to win now.

[ 09. April 2016, 12:18: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The mistake is in your PGN record for black's 10th move. It was Be6 not Bxh3.

quote:
Adam.: Sorry, typing what I'd have done rather than what actually happened!

No, Bxh3 isn't possible because there is another error in your PGN code. Move 5 was Bg2, not Be2.

I wonder if Adam's recent sacrifice is the consequence of one of these errors, of having recorded some of the earlier moves wrongly?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
LeRoc: I wonder if Adam's recent sacrifice is the consequence of one of these errors, of having recorded some of the earlier moves wrongly?

Yes, I think this is the case. This is the correct PGN so far:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. g3 Nc6 4. d3 Bc5 5. Bg2 Ng4 6. O-O O-O 7. h3 Nxf2 8. Rxf2 Bxf2+ 9. Kxf2 d6 10. Nc3 Be6 11. Kg1 Qd7 12. Kh2 Nb4 13. Be3 f5 14. exf5 Bxf5 15. a3 Na6 16. Nh4 *

Adam took the pawn at h3, thinking the Bishop was at e2, while it was in fact at g2. I propose that we disregard that move and continue after 16. Nh4.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

So, starting from the beginning:

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook
9. White: Kg1-f2, taking Bishop; Black: pawn d7 - d6
10. White: Knight b1-c3; Black: Bishop from c8 - e6
11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h411. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4

Can anyone see this? This is what the board is at that point.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

(Sorry, disregard last post.)

So, starting from the beginning:

1. White: pawn on e2 - e4; Black: pawn on e7-e5
2. White: Knight on g1 - f3; Black; Knight on g8 - f6
3. White: pawn on g2 - g3; Black: Knight on b8 - c6.
4. White: Pawn d2-d3; Black: Bishop on f8 - c5.
5. White: Bishop f1-g2; Black: Knight f6 - g4
6. White: Castles (Kingside); Black: Castles (Kingside)
7. White: Pawn h2-h3; Black: Knight from g4 - f2, taking pawn.
8. White: Rook f1-f2, taking Knight; Black: Bishop from c5 - f2, taking Rook
9. White: Kg1-f2, taking Bishop; Black: pawn d7 - d6
10. White: Knight b1-c3; Black: Bishop from c8 - e6
11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4

Can anyone see this? This is what the board is at that point.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Well spotted. I think your proposal is the right way to go. Disregard Bxh3 by Black and proceed after White's Nh4.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

In that case, there is a certain pawn that needs to be defended.

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Must be right for White to take the Black bishop but I need to do a bit of checking out here plus some RL stuff. Back in a couple of hours or so. Meanwhile any one else can take a swing at it. A lot to play for over the next few moves.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5;

Got to do that (winning a minor exchange) while I have the chance, I think.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen f8 - f5, taking Knight

quote:
Barnabas62: Got to do that (winning a minor exchange) while I have the chance, I think.

Yeah, there was no other way. If I let you do Bxb7, you would have had a fork on Black's Rook and Night.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Sorry for the confusion, all! Catching up on that many moves after missing a bunch was just to much for me to do without error, I'm afraid.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

No problem, Adam. We all have lives as well!

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen f8 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2;

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen f8 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2; Black: Pawn d6 - d5

This move feels right ... [Ultra confused]

[ 09. April 2016, 18:27: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen f8 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2; Black: Pawn d6 - d5

[This move feels right ... [Ultra confused]

DT]

[Maybe not. B62]

19. White: Knight f3 x Pawn d5

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

are you playing as though black 17 is f8 x f5 or d7 x f5 ?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Sorry, moonlitdoor, you're quite right to point out the error. I'm playing that Black moved his Queen from d7-f5, not his Rook from f8-f5. The move is either wrong about which piece Black moved or which square he moved the Queen from. Because he said the Queen I thought he meant the Queen.

Doublethink, was your last move based on a position in which Black's Queen was on f5? If so, then I think we play on from that position.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

I thought it was worth checking as Doublethink's move makes more sense if R is on f5 and Q on d7, whereas your reply makes more sense if Q is on f5.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I think it's a problem with this full notation we're using. In PGN you couldn't get this sort of ambiguity. In the case in point it would be either Qf5 or Rf5.

Stating the piece you move is rather like the "touch-move" rule which normally applies.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Fuck this was my fault. I took the piece with the Queen, not the Rook.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Thought so. But DT needs to confirm her understanding of the position.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Sorry, moonlitdoor, you're quite right to point out the error. I'm playing that Black moved his Queen from d7-f5, not his Rook from f8-f5. The move is either wrong about which piece Black moved or which square he moved the Queen from. Because he said the Queen I thought he meant the Queen.

Doublethink, was your last move based on a position in which Black's Queen was on f5? If so, then I think we play on from that position.

I have the black queen on f5. I am confused as to why giving the colour and piece, where it started and where it moves to, makes things more ambiguous ?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Corrected move sequence:

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen d7 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2; Black: Pawn d6 - d5
19. White: Knight f3 x Pawn d5

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen d7 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2; Black: Pawn d6 - d5
19. White: Knight f3 x Pawn d5; Black: Pawn c6 - d5 taking Knight

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen d7 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2; Black: Pawn d6 - d5
19. White: Knight f3 x Pawn d5; Black: Pawn c6 - d5 taking Knight
20 White: Bishop g2 -d5, taking pawn with check

[ 09. April 2016, 23:03: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

On ambiguity

There is normally no need to specify both the piece and the square it starts from when describing a move to a destination square. (You only have to do this if either rook, bishop, knight or in the case of a pawn capture another pawn can reach the same destination square). If you specify the piece and the wrong square it starts from (as LeRoc did) then you create an ambiguity under the following conditions; if there is a piece on that wrongly specified starting square and it can also reach the destination square. The extra ambiguity is created by having a standard which always specifies both the start square and the destination square (either of which can be specified wrongly).

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-10

11. White: King f2-g1; Black: Queen d8-d7
12. White: King g1-h2; Black: Knight c6 - b4
13. White: Bishop c1-e3; Black: pawn f7-f5
14. White: Pawn e4xf5; Black: bishop e6 - f5, taking pawn.
15. White: Pawn a2-a3; Black: knight b4 - a6
16. White: Knight f3-h4; Black: pawn c7 - c6
17. White: Knight h4xBishopf5; Black: Queen d7 - f5, taking Knight
18. White: Queen d1-e2; Black: Pawn d6 - d5
19. White: Knight f3 x Pawn d5; Black: Pawn c6 - d5 taking Knight
20. White: Bishop g2 -d5, taking pawn with check; Black: King g8 - h8

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn

(I don't think we need a separate link for moves 1-10 since those moves are embedded in the above link).

This is a very interesting position. White ends up definitely ahead on material (which I saw), the dangerous Black pawn mass has been destroyed (which I also saw) but Black has real chances to turn the tables (which I didn't see!).

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

that's good you all had the same understanding. I has assumed Doublethink thought otherwise because the current situation is very bad for Black, whereas if it had been R X f5, White's B X d5 could be met with Q X d5.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

I must be wrong then, evidently Barnabas and Doublethink have seen something I have not.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

There are two distinct scenarios now and Black's next move will determine which one of those materialises. I think Black has chances in both of them.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

It is worth bearing mind that, although I like chess, I am not necessarily very good at it [Ultra confused]

[ 10. April 2016, 08:52: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: There are two distinct scenarios now and Black's next move will determine which one of those materialises. I think Black has chances in both of them.

Hmm, I'm only seeing one where Black ends up a piece behind. Trying to see the other one.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8

This is the slightly better option, and I think I've figured out what you have in mind. I still can't see it as Black turning the tables though.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

So Barnabas62, was the other option Nc2, B x a8, N X a8 ?

Can't white then just try to exchange queens and advance the passed pawn ? What plan does black have ?

If answering that gives away too much about the actual position, feel free to delay answering it until later.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8

(LeRocThis is the slightly better option, and I think I've figured out what you have in mind. I still can't see it as Black turning the tables though.)

(B62I agree it is the better option. Black gets a lot of counterplay with his major pieces. White has some weaknesses and awkwardly placed pieces. Nevertheless ...)

22. White: Bishop b7-a6, takes Knight;

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

I see my earlier post was a bit rude to Doublethink, I am sorry about that. I am not a good player but am finding it interesting to follow this game.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

No worries, and please do feel free to join in. You don't have to pick a side - just don't post two moves consecutively.

This thread is an accidental experiment, once the game is finished I will try to refine a crowd sourced chess opening post, so we can play again in a dekinked version [Big Grin]

I think crowd sourcing is interesting, because it gives weaker players a fighting chance and stronger ones some unusual situations to try to make the best of.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

A reminder because of the page turn.

This is where we are at.

And it's Black to move.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: And it's Black to move.

Okay, now I imagine you stroking a white cat sitting on your lap.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8
22. White: Bishop b7-a6, takes Knight; Black: Rook b8 - b6

Incidentally, why rook rather than castle ?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8
22. White: Bishop b7-a6, takes Knight; Black: Rook b8 - b6
23. White: Bishop a6-c4;

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8
22. White: Bishop b7-a6, takes Knight; Black: Rook b8 - b6
23. White: Bishop a6-c4; Black: Queen f5 - g6

[ 10. April 2016, 22:14: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8
22. White: Bishop b7-a6, takes Knight; Black: Rook b8 - b6
23. White: Bishop a6-c4; Black: Queen f5 - g6
24. White: Bishop e3-b6, takes Rook;

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate: moves 1-20

21. White: Bishop d5-b7, taking pawn; Black: Rook a8-b8
22. White: Bishop b7-a6, takes Knight; Black: Rook b8 - b6
23. White: Bishop a6-c4; Black: Queen f5 - g6
24. White: Bishop e3-b6, takes Rook; Black: Pawn a7 - b6, takes Bishop

(Oops, move 23 may have been a bit crap.)

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Next game?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

* Black throws over King *

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Seems best. White is up by a piece and two pawns and the counter play possibilities have now vanished. Might have been different if Black had played Rxb2 instead of Rb6. But if anyone else wants to play on I'm happy to bow out now.

DT, it did occur to me that for a crowd sourced version there's probably a value in limiting the number of consecutive moves any Shipmate can make for the same side. My curiosity got the better of my sociability! Hence my 20 consecutive moves for White. That was fun for me, but I'm not sure the freedom to do that would work in the long term.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

So, victory for White !

Shall we use the end of this thread to spending a little time to craft a suitable chess OP fo future use ?

Firstly, I hear what you say about standard transcription - but I do think writing the colour and piece names makes the thread more accesible to people who perhaps don't regularly read chess columns.

Perhaps we could do colour, piece, end square. So

1. White - Pawn to d4

What do you think ?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: Might have been different if Black had played Rxb2 instead of Rb6.

This is what I was seeing:

22. … Rxb2
23. Bxa7? Ra8!

But of course, White could have prevented this by not taking the pawn on a7, for example playing 23. Bc4 instead. Is this what you had in mind for Black? Or is there something else?

BTW Kudos for how you thrashed Black's pawn fortress; that was a beauty to behold.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Doublethink.: Firstly, I hear what you say about standard transcription - but I do think writing the colour and piece names makes the thread more accesible to people who perhaps don't regularly read chess columns.

Perhaps we could do colour, piece, end square. So

1. White - Pawn to d4

What do you think ?

It is OK for me. I guess that sometimes we need to give the begin square also when there is ambiguity (this only happens in few cases).

When I'm analysing instead of making a move, I might use the shorter notation sometimes (analysing is half of the fun).

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

DT - happy with that suggestion for notation.

LeRoc

The real problem with White's position after Rxb2 is that White's Queen and King are both on the second rank and Black already has strength on the open f column. Lots of White moves allow Black to exploit the pinned c pawn. I think best for White may be Rc1 first, rather than Bc4, intending Rc2 to break the pin on the c pawn. But it is tricky. Major pieces on the seventh rank and open files have a lot of potential power.

Even if I'd seen these disadvantages (which I didn't), destroying the Black pawn mass with Nxd5 was still the best option for White. I saw the possibility after Black (Adam) played Na6 (rather than Nc6). I think you may have also seen the Nxd5 move yourself, since you'd seen the bishop fork if the bishop did take the pawn on b7. Black's d6-d5 looks such a natural move at first glance, but it was probably fatal even with best play by both sides afterwards.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: The real problem with White's position after Rxb2 is that White's Queen and King are both on the second rank and Black already has strength on the open f column. Lots of White moves allow Black to exploit the pinned c pawn.

Ah, I see. Especially Black playing e4 would be potentially dangerous, because it would immediately put our Queen into play. I still think White would have a couple of ways to defend against that though.

quote:
Barnabas62: I think you may have also seen the Nxd5 move yourself

No, I admit I didn't, butI wouldn't have played 18. … d5 anyway. My move would have been 18. … Qg6, because I was afraid of 19. Rf1 Qg6 20. Rxf8 Rxf8 21. Bxa7.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Draft OP for comments:

quote:

Crowd Sourced Chess

This thread is designed for the purpose of playing and discussing a communal game of Chess.

Notation

We are using the rank and file identifications shown in the link. We are not using standard PNG notation, instead we are using a slightly expanded form to encourage more shippies to participate.

Moves will be posted in the following format:

quote:

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to e5
2. White - Pawn to f3: Black - Pawn to f6
The move you are making in the post, is in bold. After the tenth pair of moves is made, the next post will start with a gamestate link to the previous post with ten rounds in, and then proceed with round 11 - thus later posts will look like this:

quote:

Gamestate

11. White - King Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to a1 taking Rook
Thread Ettiquette
Anyone can post a move
You can chose to post moves for only one colour - but you can change between colours if you like.
Please don't post two consecutive moves - i.e. do not post a move by one side and its response by the other.
We would prefer that no more than three moves for one colour are made by the same poster before another person posts a move for that colour.
Good natured discussion and analysis of the ongoing game is encouraged.

What do you guys think of this ? Any suggestions ?

[ 11. April 2016, 11:26: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Personally I am not sure about the three move colour limit, I could see quite a fun thread developing where a strong player posted most of the moves for one side and they were opposed by a group pooling ideas.

We ought maybe to think about the pros and cons of discussing moves before they are made as well.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Looks good, Doublethink! Limiting consecutive moves for the same colour to three seems like a good compromise. [Crossposted with your other post; yes let's look at other options too.]

I'd still like it if we could link to an external site that shows us the board from time to time. I linked to Apronus, giving something like this but Doublethink couldn't see that? I'd be willing to look for other external sites that work better.

BTW, would you like each chess game to start on a new thread, or for us to continue on the same thread? I think I'd be in favour of the latter, since most games will take only a couple of days, with new threads causing the Circus to clog up rather quickly. But for me any way is fine.

[ 11. April 2016, 11:35: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I could see the apronus website and found it helpful.

On consecutive move limits, 3 looks good to me, but I also have a "contingency" suggestion. Say a Shipmate makes a third consecutive move with a time stamp of 12.00 on 12th April. Then they should not make another move for 24 hours i.e. 12.00 on 13th April. That would allow sufficient time for someone else to come in, but if nobody did, then they can come back in for another three moves. It would be a way of keeping a game going if interest levels were light.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

I'd still like it if we could link to an external site that shows us the board from time to time. I linked to Apronus, giving something like this but Doublethink couldn't see that? I'd be willing to look for other external sites that work better.

I'd also appreciate that. As you noticed(!), I found catching up on a lot of moves after some time away difficult to do without making mistakes. Being able to access an online board state, even if I had to enact a few of the moves that were written out on the ship would make it a lot easier to come in and out of the game.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Okay, if you're up for it, I'd like to do a Queenside opening.

1. White: Pawn to d4

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Let me start a new thread this time, but it can have several games on.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Okay, I see this is better because then the Opening Post will contain the thread rules.

[ 11. April 2016, 15:50: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

OK the new thread is up, I am going to lock this one for the avoidance of confusion.

Doublethink
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