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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Do you know a disciple?
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
If you know someone who you think is a disciple of Jesus today, what is it about them that makes you think so?
If we think of ourselves as disciples, how does that translate into real life? I struggle with it - should I be doing more good works? Praying more? Spending more time in church? Giving more away?
Can we ever do enough to live up to the title?
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
My brother. He is a missionary who sees opportunity to serve the Lord everywhere. At our father's funeral he preached about reaching heaven and a friend of Dad's approached him afterward to see about getting baptized. He has had some family issues and he approaches the problems with love and grace. And he prays A LOT. I can't hold a candle to him.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
All Christians are disciples. It's fundamental to our calling. The distinction isn't between who's a disciple and who isn't. It's between who's an effective disciple, who takes that calling seriously, and who's a less effective one, a mediocre one or a duff one.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Hmmmm - is it really about what we do?
Isn't it more about our character, who we are?
Also - maybe your sig is the key "Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10"
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Evangeline
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# 7002
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Posted
If it's any consolation the disciples in the Gospels were pretty crap at it. It took them forever to get clued up about who Jesus was and at the first sign of trouble they scampered away and hid, denying they even knew him. Following Jesus isn't easy but there's hope, tomorrow is another day as the old cliche goes.
Boogie I'd say that what we do reflects who we are and vice versa, so we can't ignore "doing" if we are disciples.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
On first reading I thought I disagreed with Boogie, but after a little pondering I think she may be on to something.
It isn't that we are not called to do anything, we are. We are called to follow. What we do as disciples (Yes I agree with Enoch that all Christians are disciples) comes from who we are in Christ - to borrow a phrase from the Apostle Paul.
So what we are comes first, what we do comes from who we are.
I think we wear people down with expectations. You have to pray more, you have to believe more, you have to have strong faith. Sorry, that's not me. My faith is weak and fragile, but I believe in a powerful God, all the strength in my relationship with God comes from his, not my side of the relationship. If it were all down to me, my faith would have collapsed long ago.
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PS, I am wondering if the OP is confusing Disciple with Apostle, to very different things.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
And we are all different. Not everyone can be, is even called to be, a missionary or an evangelist. The Body of Christ can't be all teeth, or all nose, or all pinky fingers. A multiplicity of organs are needed to do all the tasks and perform all the functions.
On another thread we were discussing the Last Supper. Nowhere in the gospels does it say who cooked it. But she (almost certainly it was a she) was performing an essential function, wouldn't you say?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
Thank you for your thoughtful replies, very helpful as ever.
Two questions that arise from them:
What do we mean by all Christians, if all are disciples? Many people are baptised as babies but never pick up the faith for themselves, for example....
Do all Christians recognise a calling into discipleship, thereby making them disciples, or are they disciples by the very fact that they call themselves Christians?
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
PS, I am wondering if the OP is confusing Disciple with Apostle, to very different things.
If the apostles were also disciples, surely not so different, other than in the specific calling to also be sent out?
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
So what we are comes first, what we do comes from who we are.
And we often have very little choice about what we do - but there is always choice about how we do it - and with what attitude.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
We are what we do.
Dooby-dooby-do.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
And we are all different. Not everyone can be, is even called to be, a missionary or an evangelist. The Body of Christ can't be all teeth, or all nose, or all pinky fingers.
Someone has to be the arsehole. I'm doing my bit.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Oi! Demarcation dispute. That's MY job. All out!
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Disciple means 'learner', doesn't it?
(ISTM there are quite a few bits of theo-speak that would be much more intelligible if we didn't insist on disguising them in classical languages.)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
I'm with Enoch on the definition. Acts 11:26 is explicit - in Antioch "....the disciples were first called Christians." The idea that a Christian might not be a disciple would have been nonsense to Christ's first followers.
But I don't want to quibble over terminology but run with the spirit of the o/p. For me, disciples include people who are struggling with the practical implications of their faith whilst seriously wanting to make a go of being a follower of Christ. Maybe think of followers who fall from time to time, but keeping on getting back up to carry on the journey. Or learners who take a while for the penny to drop and drop repeated changers in the process. Such people can encourage us because we can relate to them - but we wouldn't hold them up as role models to aspire to. I'd categorise both types (pardon the generalisation) as "disciples."
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
As Ricardus says, a disciple is someone who is learning.
Anyone is a disciple who is trying to learn from Jesus.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
What do we mean by all Christians, if all are disciples? Many people are baptised as babies but never pick up the faith for themselves, for example....
Do all Christians recognise a calling into discipleship, thereby making them disciples, or are they disciples by the very fact that they call themselves Christians?
I thought the OP was odd, initially. Aren't we all disciples if we follow Christ, I thought? But then began to wonder.
Perhaps all Christians to varying degrees do tend to have a certain multi-level understanding of who exists under the Christian umbrella, so to speak.
The whole concept of the national church or the state religion, assumes a sort of diffusive, cultural level of belonging, while the personal commitment to an active life of faith is another. Entering into the ministry (or monastic life, etc.) is yet another.
Moreover, strict denominations may knowingly recruit among people who are already Christians, seeing these people's original allegiance as some kind of lesser level of Christian affiliation, but a suitable stepping stone to something higher or deeper.
I'm not convinced it's helpful for Christians to be divided into disciples and non-disciples, but it is what it is.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
At a recent service, moving from John 1:12-13 (if we are children of God what does that mean when we know that we have a genetic inheritance from our human father?) to Paul's parts of the body (we are all very different in our concept of God, in our relationship with God, in the way we talk to God when we pray) I then invited the congregation to write on a sticky as they left 'what I might do in the coming week to contribute to God's kingdom', and stick it on a Tree of LIfe I'd sketched
Not sure how it would go down with this rather conservative congregation – back in the city it would be part of the service and everyone would participate. But I guess half the small congregation accepted the invitation. I left the 'tree' there after copying the answers – and then lost them! I do remember 'get to know my neighbour', 'be more forgiving', 'listen', ' help at the Monday night dinner for the poor', and I suspect it was the teenagers that were keen on 'caring for God's earth' and something on the lines of being kind.
Apostles or disciples, we're all children of God.
GG
Typo edited by GG
[ 16. April 2016, 09:08: Message edited by: Galloping Granny ]
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
If you mean do I have any one I look up to as an example, in the OP Raptor (just saw 10 of you in a thermal near the High Cross) Eye, no. Astoundingly no. No not one. In my wide purview.
Do you know any?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
If you mean do I have any one I look up to as an example, in the OP Raptor (just saw 10 of you in a thermal near the High Cross) Eye, no. Astoundingly no. No not one. In my wide purview.
Do you know any?
I'd like to have seen them in the thermal, Martin.
Yes, I do look up to a couple of people who are an example, who inspire me on in different ways. They are people who are openly Christian in words as well as in compassionate action.
I suppose that it's discernment of our own path of discipleship that's important, what following Jesus means to us in our lives day by day as Brenda Clough suggested, albeit falteringly as Truman White said.....rather than thinking we should do more of everything which can make us feel inadequate. Surely discipleship does mean to imitate Jesus, to serve God as well as to learn from him.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
You in your small corner
And I in mine.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
As Ricardus says, a disciple is someone who is learning.
Anyone is a disciple who is trying to learn from Jesus.
Jus' to make explicit what's implicit, learning translates into action. It's a learning that motivates following the example/life approach of another.
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I see and hear NO ONE leading in that. No one. Not in any transferable, followable way. I can endorse Francis in his great gestures and Steve Chalke in his remarkable community Oasis. I can get my hands dirty on a Friday night with my peers. I can respond to tangents of need from that. In my helpless privilege.
Anyone, anything else?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
If you know someone who you think is a disciple of Jesus today, what is it about them that makes you think so?
I suspect Mrs Maycock of the Upminster, Essex
Crusader class c1980 may well have gone to her reward by now - she wasn't young then - but just as she taught us to sing...
Thhhheeeee...fruit of the spirit is love joy peace, patience goodness kindness, faithfulness gentleness self-control, for such there is no law.
So she comes to mind, and the song still helps me discern current saints I come across (thinking of you, E. - are you speaking in tongues again or is it just the Scots accent?). Or Miss Hutt, my cub-scout Akela, warbling 'Trust and Obey' and living her austere life of service, looking after her ancient mother, ridiculed by many and ornery as hell, but yet, but yet.
Now a small bunch of disparate kids in inner-city Manchester know the song too. To test themselves, to test the claims of others, and as an aspiration.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
quote:
If you know someone who you think is a disciple of Jesus today, what is it about them that makes you think so?
I suspect Mrs Maycock of the Upminster, Essex
Crusader class c1980 may well have gone to her reward by now - she wasn't young then - but just as she taught us to sing...
Thhhheeeee...fruit of the spirit is love joy peace, patience goodness kindness, faithfulness gentleness self-control, for such there is no law.
So she comes to mind, and the song still helps me discern current saints I come across (thinking of you, E. - are you speaking in tongues again or is it just the Scots accent?). Or Miss Hutt, my cub-scout Akela, warbling 'Trust and Obey' and living her austere life of service, looking after her ancient mother, ridiculed by many and ornery as hell, but yet, but yet.
Now a small bunch of disparate kids in inner-city Manchester know the song too. To test themselves, to test the claims of others, and as an aspiration.
I like this imagery, thank you Mark. So many disciples, impacting in so many ways, ways which bring us to smile.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
It was declared at us this morning. No one noticed. Except us in our holy huddle. I wonder how we'd have to actually love one another so that anyone else would and want what we've got?
A friend has been going through utter manic psychotic hell with a child They shared how their marriage and family has been ruined by it, repeatedly in small group. People pray of course. I said max out your credit card on private psychiatric treatment while the NHS prescribe Prozac to a 12 year old. Which is what I'd done. For an 18 year old. Thanks to an NHS doctor advising exactly that. Good man.
My friend kept asking what they were doing wrong and what were they missing. The NHS couldn't tell them. Thank God nobody was insane enough to suggest they weren't praying and reading their Bible enough.
So they finally did. Go private. This week. After months of near Exorcist level hell (screaming the neighbours awake, cops called for violence, that sort of thing). And funnily enough a chink of light opened in the relentless gloom.
We were talking after the service in which we were told all men would know us. They said they knew it wasn't THE answer, but it had already made a difference. They didn't know what the answer was. I said, 'This.', sharing it, doing something about it: God helps those as help themselves. Together. Openly. With open hearts, arms, ears, mouths and WALLETS.
Another friend, with an afflicted child and no means perked up in their wheelchair, asked for details.
Another glimmer of hope.
Perhaps the world WILL see.
ALL it takes is MONEY. And NOT for the sodding church building fantasy.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
Love which cares enough to give money, Martin, yes.
Thank you Leo, I've been singing it all day.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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