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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Southern Baptists Repent
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
They have mandated the removal of the Confederate flag from their churches.
Here is an article summarizing the decision.
This is particularly significant because they're the Southern Baptists, specifically founded so that white people wouldn't have to worship with black people.
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
They have mandated the removal of the Confederate flag from their churches.
Here is an article summarizing the decision.
This is particularly significant because they're the Southern Baptists, specifically founded so that white people wouldn't have to worship with black people.
Actually, as the article notes, the Southern Baptists were organized so that white people could continue to own black people. The Southern Baptist practice of segregated worship came later, after chattel slavery was no longer an option.
This has been something of a longstanding issue for Russell Moore. I recall (but cannot find a source) him recently remarking that the Southern Baptists can no longer be the state church of the Confederacy. His predecessor as head of the SBC's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, Richard Land, would be spinning in his grave if he were dead. Land was more "old school" on this issue.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
The South has been able to keep the wounds of the Civil War open for a long time. Perhaps this is a sign of healing, at long last.
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
They have mandated the removal of the Confederate flag from their churches.
No, they haven't. The Southern Baptust Convention cannot mandate member churches to do much of anything. (And I've never seen a Confederate flag in a Southern Baptist church anyway. American flags, on the other hand, are close to ubiquitous.)
What the Convention did, at least according to the linked article, was to encourage Southern Baptists not to display the Confederate flag—at their homes, on their cars, etc.—any more.
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The South has been able to keep the wounds of the Civil War open for a long time. Perhaps this is a sign of healing, at long last.
Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath. There is certainly a long way yet to go, but healing has been happening for decades, at least in some quarters.
Frankly, I think many will see this more as a PR move than sincere repentance on the part of the Convention. For the most part, the Southern Baptists with whom this will resonate (and there are lots of them) didn't need to be told how offensive it is to fly a Confederate flag, nor did they need to be encouraged not to display one. The ones who do need to be told will, I'm afraid, see this as rejection of their heritage. The rest of us will shake our heads that they need to have this conversation in 2016. I really don't anticipate much effect once the news cycle is over.
Sorry. I'm cynical about this, I'm afraid. But having lived all of my 50+ years the South, surrounded by Southern Baptists, I'm afraid I don't see this as a major move or sign of healing. It's not nearly as big as the removal many years ago of the Confederate flag from the Georgia state flag (will Mississippi ever follow suit?) or last year from the South Carolina Statehouse.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sioni Sais
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# 5713
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Posted
If push does come to shove then I expect there will be yet another split, this time within the SBC. Probably a "Real SBC" or a "Continuation SBC". A bit like GAFCON.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If push does come to shove then I expect there will be yet another split, this time within the SBC. Probably a "Real SBC" or a "Continuation SBC". A bit like GAFCON.
There's already been one split—after the conservatives took control of the Convention (30 or so years ago?) and some moderates broke away.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I worked with a man once who was on the vestry at the Episcopal church in Haymarket, VA. This is a little bit far to be a commuter suburb for Washington DC but entirely doable if you yearn for the rural life. They were rewriting the brochure, the leaflet in the rack at the front that discusses the history of the building and so on and he had me look it over because I am a demon for apostrophes. There was a line in it about the War of Northern Aggression and the evils of Abraham Lincoln, and I pointed out that if they really hoped to rake in the suburban commuters they ought to rewrite that. He said they couldn't, because one old lady insisted it stay in. And she owned the land under the church parking lot. They would rewrite, when she passed away.
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If push does come to shove then I expect there will be yet another split, this time within the SBC. Probably a "Real SBC" or a "Continuation SBC". A bit like GAFCON.
There is already a "reformed southern baptist church."
[ 16. June 2016, 15:07: Message edited by: irish_lord99 ]
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If push does come to shove then I expect there will be yet another split, this time within the SBC. Probably a "Real SBC" or a "Continuation SBC". A bit like GAFCON.
There is already a "reformed southern baptist church."
Are you referring to the Founders group, or something else?
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
There is already a "reformed southern baptist church."
FWIW, "church" in the Southern Baptist context never refers to anything other than a local congregation. Any grouping of churches is a convention, association or some similar term.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Every Baptist church is autonomous and, therefore, cannot be mandated to remove any flag from the building. I think there will be some strong resistance to the call.
As a Lutheran, I do not feel it is appropriate to have any flag in the sanctuary. The focus should be on the cross only.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Every Baptist church is autonomous and, therefore, cannot be mandated to remove any flag from the building. I think there will be some strong resistance to the call.
As I said earlier, the resolution said nothing about mandating removal of Confederate flags from the sanctuaries of SBC churches. (It did "commend" a Southern Baptist college for removing an "image" of the battle flag from its chapel.) It didn't mandate anything at all. What it did was to "call on our brothers and sisters in Christ to discontinue the display of the Confederate battle flag as a sign of solidarity of the whole Body of Christ, including our African American brothers and sisters."
The resolution can be read here .
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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