Ship of Fools: One Church, One God, One Believer

Thread: One Church, One God, One Believer Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Tibi Omnes (# 18608) on :

That concise and aggressively symmetrical formulation describes my spiritual orientation after 30 years of various community involvements. I met a lot of interesting, and far more annoying people, a few genuine mystics, but never found a group that did much for my spiritual life. I'm reconciled to being a post modern anchorite, building an interior cathedral of old books, old music, and some hair-raising kitsch popular religious art.

I'm wondering how many others here go it alone, and what they do by way of religious practice?

Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on :

I quit my church some years ago and haven't bothered going to another one. I don't consider myself Christian any more; I get most of my spirituality through a 12-step program I belong to. And the boards here give me a lot to reflect on, as well.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

I don't think I could ever 'go it alone' - although I've always been liminal to a greater or lesser extent in various church settings.

For one thing, it ain't all about me and also, I'm certainly just as, if not more, annoying than anyone I'm likely to encounter in churches or any other group - be it a virtual one - as here - or a real life one.

I'm involved in local politics and in running voluntary community arts groups and a similar dynamic applies there.

People = Problems.

It has ever been thus.

Being an anchorite would screen out some of those problems but still leaves us with the problems of the human heart.

Even the anchorites in Egypt had some connection, though, however sporadically, with the wider Body of the Church.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Years ago, I saw some kind of board or mailing group for hermits, anchorites, etc. (Not necessarily vowed.) It might still be around.

Also search on "solitary spirituality". Specify "Christian" if you want only that.

And I don't know if this will help, but you might take a look at the reading list in my Ship profile. It has various books that have helped me, at various stages in my own journey--much of it solitary.

FWIW, YMMV.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I hope I always get to keep my hands dirty.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Given that the proportion of the population that describes itself as Christian is far higher than the proportion that goes to church, I would suggest that 'going it alone' is (in statistical terms at least) normal, and it's churchgoers like me who are weird.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Aye, all those overwhelmingly 'Christian' Tories, UKIPpers, Britain Firsters.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Given that the proportion of the population that describes itself as Christian is far higher than the proportion that goes to church, I would suggest that 'going it alone' is (in statistical terms at least) normal, and it's churchgoers like me who are weird.

But how many of those non-churchgoing Christians are "going it" at all, alone or otherwise? What I mean is, how many of them are Christian in any meaningful way, apart from feeling obligated to announce themselves as such to the census taker?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Even the anchorites in Egypt had some connection, though, however sporadically, with the wider Body of the Church.

And spiritual fathers / abbots to keep them on track.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Given that the proportion of the population that describes itself as Christian is far higher than the proportion that goes to church, I would suggest that 'going it alone' is (in statistical terms at least) normal, and it's churchgoers like me who are weird.
But how many of those non-churchgoing Christians are "going it" at all, alone or otherwise? What I mean is, how many of them are Christian in any meaningful way, apart from feeling obligated to announce themselves as such to the census taker?

Indeed - my comment was actually a veiled snark. How does the individualistic spiritual practice of the OP differ from the spiritual life of the general public?

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I am spiritually better off - happier, more hopeful, more actively engaged in life, more God aware, more reaching out to others - when I stay away from weekly church.

YMMV

[ 23. June 2016, 22:21: Message edited by: Belle Ringer ]

Posted by Tibi Omnes (# 18608) on :

quote:
How does the individualistic spiritual practice of the OP differ from the spiritual life of the general public? [/QB]

what does OP stand for?

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tibi Omnes:
what does OP stand for?

"Opening post" or "opening poster"—the starting post in a thread or the person who posted it.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

Tangent/
If you want to be amused/bemused try copying the Petrarch passage to Google Translate.
With my limited Italian I could almost do better myself.

GG

Posted by Tibi Omnes (# 18608) on :

How embarrassing: OP then would be me. My practice consists of reading the breviary in Latin, aND a large consumption of candles & incense before an altar covered with catholic folk art, bargain baroque devotional bric a brac scary saint kitsch and some really ostrogoth memento mori decor originally intended for Halloween.

There's more foolery yet, but this gives an idea of my antics.

[ 24. June 2016, 00:59: Message edited by: Tibi Omnes ]

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

I haven't been able to find a community that suits me since moving here a decade ago, but communal worship is good for me. It keeps me on track with actually sitting down and devoting time to God.

I have a home prayer space next to me in my study, but I look at it from my computer desk more than use it. Every now and again I go on a personal daily prayer ritual revival drive, but it doesn't seem to last long. I pray freestyle quite alot, but I would prefer to have a daily ritualised habit in which I could lose myself and find solace.

My church habit is to go to my local Anglican church fortnightly where I am ten to twenty years younger than most of the congregation. They do it old style, book of common prayer with almost passable organ playing and voices more cracked than Hilary's. They do the passing of the peace with gusto and a group crush in the aisles.

I also go to a city Catholic church once a month before I meet an old friend to get well sauced. The congregation here consists of a large group of extremely passionate Catholics (I don't know the right word) who put their arms in the air when saying the Our Father. They seem to develop little worship peccadilloes and every now and then the Franciscan friars have to warn them off. One time, the Priest gave a short admonition against jumping the communion queues so that they received the host from the Priest rather than a lay person.

Another part of the congregation are people like me - individuals who find themselves in town and feel like hearing a mass. Finally, there are the people up the back who don't participate. I think they are the most important ones.

I love my little rituals. I get a great deal out of them. I've been involved in service-oriented congregations before, and one in particular had a couple of brilliant programs. One of them led to my present job helping people with profound disabilities. But these congregations tend to be happy clappy, and I'm bells and smells. Or they are old style Reformation churches, and a bread roll and grape juice is nice for lunch, but I'm hungrier than once a month thanks. I want communion weekly and in the style to which I am accustomed. I know that in the medium term I will just stop going to these types of churches.

So, my perpetually dying local Anglican congregation and my vibrant monthly mass and piss up do it for me, even though my connection to both is very loose. I'm committed to the piss up, obviously.

Posted by Truman White (# 17290) on :

I've gone the other way. I'm working in four Christian communities and have a spiritual director to help me hold it all together. Also spend most of life outside of a Christian context.

Different personality types get their energy from different contexts.

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Truman White:

I've gone the other way. I'm working in four Christian communities and have a spiritual director to help me hold it all together. Also spend most of life outside of a Christian context.

Different personality types get their energy from different contexts.

I've also gone in this direction. Membership in one place because of theological reasons, but a second place of activity because they are so good at community and radical discipleship.

Not sure this would be true for me if I lived somewhere else. I started exploring the second faith community because I just wasn't getting much spiritual juice from my first choice among the options in my area.

sabine

Posted by Felafool (# 270) on :

I struggle to find much 'god-space' at church these days, but I continue to attend fairly regularly (2 or 3 times a month) because I want to identify myself as part of a Christian community which, to be fair, is active in a number of different outgoing ministries.

I am about to move house to another part of the country, and intend to find a church there where I can call home. I hope it will be an important part of building new social circles as well as finding outlets for my gifts and passions, but I am not very optimistic that I will find much more 'god-space'.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
intend to find a church there where I can call home. I hope it will be an important part of building new social circles as well as finding outlets for my gifts and passions, but I am not very optimistic that I will find much more 'god-space'.

That's the hard part - how do you find a place that will be a "spiritual home" for you plus a source of social circles plus an outlet for gifts and passions? Maybe the hype about "church family" and "church home" has taught us to expect too much of a church?

Most churches have no use for your talents. If they have a keyboardist, they don't want your keyboard talent. (Nor your talent for bassoon, painting murals, breeding crop seed, analyzing mathematical concepts, or most other talents God gave people. We need to stop thinking of church as a primary place to use our talents!)

For a while I was rounding up social rejects (widows, never marrieds, physically handicapped etc) for lunch after church (having learned from years of failed invitations that church marrieds don't socialize with singles). But most rejects skip coffee rather that stand around with no one to talk to, so finding and gathering them is difficult. (Then I became disabled and unable to do the work.)

Watching other singles I see most have minimal contact with church - they find friends and use for talents in secular groups. I'm now following their example and finding new friends, which I rarely did in church after about age 30 (when it becomes unacceptable to still be single in church.)

Posted by Tibi Omnes (# 18608) on :

Just so you don’t think marriage is the key. I'm married, but neither of us wanted children --- we both chose to have creative work alongside our day jobs, which makes us selfish or dedicated, depending on your point of view. I soon learned that religious communities are all about kids, play dates and the like. Most leave after the kids grow up. It usually devolves into a social club for breeders. God has this much to do with it: they want the kids to have some notion of God, so they don't behave too badly, but they don't want the kids to actually know God.

God is a deterrent presence, like the police.

Really, they should give gay people who want to join churches a signing bonus.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Tibi Omnes:

quote:
Really, they should give gay people who want to join churches a signing bonus.

The Ship has a thread in the Circus board called "SoF Quotes File". I'm posting this.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
People = Problems.

Can't live with them, can't live without them. I'm with you on this one.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

"I love mankind..."

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

Is it all about us, and what we want?

Some don't want anything but a top- up, and don't want to be drawn in to any commitment whether toward the church or to the community, and so they leave and go it alone; some want an outlet for their talents and leave if they're not made enough use of; some want community primarily, and leave if they don't think the people are friendly enough; some expect Christians to be perfect, and leave because they find themselves with people who have human failings; etc.

A comment made to me recently that people who live alone need to seek out someone to talk to and run ideas past is perhaps appropriate here. If we go it alone spiritually, we may well steer ourselves off course.

And what is it that God wants?

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

If you don't have a sense of what church is is all about, then how to you judge if the one you are in or considering is a place healthy for you to stay? I have walked out of meeting that were teaching a whole different God-personality than the one I worship - is that wrong? One should unquestioningly believe whatever the clergy in charge want to teach?

As to community, talents etc, if the local church specifically teaches that "we are a family and care about each other" but in fact you are treated as "not really one of us", or the institution asks you to pledge "your time, talents, and money" aren't they telling you that you need to find a way to develop and use your talents?

If the only function of a church is to help people worship God, then shouldn't we ask "is this church usually fulfilling its function for me and through me to others?" And if the answer is no, find a way that does work for us?

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