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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Anglicans on the edge
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AlexaHof
Apprentice
# 18555
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Posted
On September 1st - the Feast of St Giles - I'm publishing [title removed] a shortish ebook of reportage on contemplatives in contemporary Britain.
It includes an interview with Brother Harold, a Northumbrian hermit who converted from Anglicanism to Catholicism in his fourth decade of solitude, and encounters with members of the Fellowship of Solitaries, a network of folk who try to combine solitude with everyday life.
This group - which I ended up calling 'the Other Anglicans' - is interesting, not least because of their ancient-modern endeavour, but also because some of them are clearly trying to re-work their relationship with religion in its institutional form and are experimenting with different kinds of affiliation. I tried to maintain a tone that was sympathetic yet detached, but there is lots to discuss.
(I'd be happy to offer a review copy [of the book] (in mobi format or as a pdf) to anyone with an interest in this area and a blog or audience larger than their living room).
[post edited as per Commandment 9]
[ 28. July 2016, 20:49: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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'God is dead.' Nietzsche
'Nietzsche is dead.' God
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
This post reads to me more like a violation of the Ship's commandment 9 - "Don't advertise or post spam" (specifically advertising, in this case) - rather than a topic for discussion.
Discussion about the contemplative life could be appropriate for either Purgatory or Ecclesiantics (the board devoted to worship practices) depending on the aspect that you wish to discuss, but your post does not really set out any question for discussion.
Please clarify if there is anything that you actually want to discuss.
Eliab
Purgatory host
[ 28. July 2016, 13:01: Message edited by: Eliab ]
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
I'm interested in why you have homed in on Anglicans in particular. Are there not many branches of our religion where individuals are involved in extreme or unusual practices? Is there something specific to the Anglican tradition that makes this more appropriate?
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I suppose it's not something one expects. Anglicanism, from the outside, seems like a faith tradition designed for people who want nothing do with the 'extreme or unusual'. Or perhaps it just absorbs all those tendencies and then rubs the edges off the them.
Mind you, everything is extreme or unusual to somebody. If you're keen to be a hermit in modern England you're already very different from the norm, so in that respect perhaps it doesn't really matter which church you belong to. The CofE is round and about, so you might as well just go with that.
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Bibaculus
Shipmate
# 18528
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Posted
I have met Brother Harold. He is certainly quite a character.
The solitary life is a particular vocation. Many people find themselves forced into it, but that's not really the same thing. Most of us need other people. It is what we are made for. It is as uncommon in Roman Catholicism, I think, as in Anglicanism, to feel a call to solitude. Maybe more common in Orthodoxy?
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A jumped up pantry boy who never knew his place
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AlexaHof
Apprentice
# 18555
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Posted
I've never been accused of spamming before and I'm at a bit of a loss as to best to respond.
What I was trying to do was offer interested shipmates access to research into an under-recognised aspect of contemporary Christianity, in tandem with a discussion of the questions that it raises. The contemplative life used to be central to the Christian tradition, but in a busy modern world is often regarded by the mainstream as odd or self-indulgent. But it could it be that contemporary Christianity is failing to meet a deep spiritual need, as the people I encountered obviously felt? (See the mindfulness movement which is catering for it nicely ...) Some of them were attempting to do solitude differently, combining it with the demands of ordinary life such as family, work, neighbours - how successful are these new contemplative configurations? These questions really come out of the experiences of the people I interviewed - I was in listening, rather than prescribing mode - so it was difficult to raise them without mentioning my work.
But I apologise if I've over-stepped a mark and am quite happy to leave it there.
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'God is dead.' Nietzsche
'Nietzsche is dead.' God
Posts: 7 | From: Wiltshire | Registered: Feb 2016
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AlexaHof:
The contemplative life used to be central to the Christian tradition, but in a busy modern world is often regarded by the mainstream as odd or self-indulgent. But it could it be that contemporary Christianity is failing to meet a deep spiritual need, as the people I encountered obviously felt? (See the mindfulness movement which is catering for it nicely ...)
Now that is a fine topic for discussion here. Indeed, after this piece of Hostly advice I will probably join in. It is a topic of great interest to me personally.
And in discussing it, you, I, and other Shipmates may bring in whatever sources or experiences we think are relevant to the discussion.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
As long as these marginal people make no exceptionalist claims. Pay their way, work to eat unless there are clinical reason why they can't.
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Love wins
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Types of Christian meditation are available for those who want it, and there are retreats you can pay to attend. But the churches don't particularly encourage this sort of thing.
I doubt that the average peasant in a CofE pew was ever expected to engage in such practices; and in the RCC and the Orthodox wasn't meditative prayer assumed to be for the religious orders rather than ordinary church members?
Religious orders and the dedicated celibate life are out of fashion, although there's been some attempt to rework a few of their practices for modern, regular folk. It's a niche for someone to fill, I suppose.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Can you give references for those assertions Svitlana?
To my knowledge there are CofE churches involved in retreats. I have been on several with different CofE churches and run by different CofE churches in different parts of the country.
[ 31. July 2016, 10:40: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Well, I'm just giving my impressions as a churchgoing Christian. As I said, I know there are retreat centres one can attend, and that there have been attempts (i.e. books and TV programmes, etc.) to make laypeople aware of the prayerful/meditative practices of religious orders.
However my own experience of the Methodist Church and the CofE is that meditative practices are largely considered to be a niche interest, though I'm sure this varies from church to church; some churches will, after all, have skilled people who can lead and advise on these matters, but many churches won't. There may also be class issues concerning the appeal and presentation of these practices, and financial implications regarding attendance at retreats.
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Bibaculus
Shipmate
# 18528
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Posted
I know of contemplative prayer groups in C of E parishes, and RC ones too. I think it is what a Quaker meeting largely consists of. I know not what the Methodists get up to.
If prayer is not to simply be lecturing God, one has to allow space for him to respond. That is silence. So it would seem to me to be pretty central to Christianity.
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A jumped up pantry boy who never knew his place
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
There can be (should be?) periods of silence in organised liturgies, not only for people to make their own prayers but for us to be silent and available for the 'still small voice'. Sadly, some who lead worship see silence as a challenge - a space to be filled - and the entire worshipping experience is of busyness.
As well as retreats, it used to be that parishes invited someone to lead an in-house mission which could explore these things; I know that the Community of the Resurrection used to send members of the community out to parishes to do this, but I'm not sure if they now have sufficient people to enable this work to continue.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Julian groups are contemplative prayer groups and are found in many parishes, as are other prayer groups. Not everyone in the pew will necessarily attend these groups, but there is usually publicity of their availability. Some parishes choose to set up contemplative prayer groups in Lent or Advent as a way to support parishioners. None of these groups are not costly alternatives for anyone.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Thanks for that link. It reminded me of 'quiet days', which I'd heard of but forgotten about.
I suppose the question here is what we mean by churches 'encouraging' people to do things. For me, it's not enough for such and such a group to exist for those who might be vaguely interested, it's about generating a communal sense that something is important. But from a mainstream church perspective, with diversity accepted as the norm, presumptions can't easily be made, and so it's a firstly a question of individuals exercising choice, with congregations as a whole leaning in one direction or another.
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Andromeda
Shipmate
# 11304
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Posted
This is interesting. I've just been reading 'Celebration of Discipline' by Richard Foster who has a chapter on solitude, and it's a place I've been finding myself in and needing at the moment spiritually.
quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
The solitary life is a particular vocation. Many people find themselves forced into it, but that's not really the same thing. Most of us need other people.
In CoD it talks about solitude as an inner solitude as well as an external one, so that you can be surrounded by people and busyness and yet still have your own inner solitude or silence (with actual external solitude being sought as well)
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In this world you’ll have trouble. But cheer up! I have overcome the world.
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
"Streams of Living Water", also by Richard Foster, is also a good read. He identifies these six different enduring traditions of the Christian faith viz
the Contemplative, or prayer-filled life;
the life of Holiness, or the virtuous life;
the Charismatic, or Spirit-empowered life;
the life of Social Justice, or the compassionate life;
the Evangelical, or Word-centered life;
and finally, the Incarnational, or sacramental
The book offers practical ways to incorporate these spiritual dimensions into our daily lives, to enable them to be more balanced.
It is interesting that, as a Quaker, he mentions the contemplative life first. The nonconformists (the denominational sector I come from) has, apart from the Quakers, not been particularly good at teaching the value of silence and contemplation. We are in general both activist and argumentative!
My wife and I became aware in the 1990s of the lack of the contemplative dimension in our own lives and began exploring other traditions as a result. We think the results have been profoundly helpful. "The Cloud of Unknowing" was a big help, as were the writings of Julian of Norwich. I've also learned and appreciated a lot more about apophatic theology through membership of the Ship.
The most obvious effect is that I am much more comfortable with silence, and waiting, than I ever was. And I think I've become a calmer person as a result. We share these experiences amongst nonconformists friends. Some "get it", others don't. The latter seem sometimes to regard it as a part of our getting old! Activist traditions go deep.
[ 31. July 2016, 13:41: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Hmmm ... My impression if Methodism is that ministers and leaders are pretty aware of the contemplative tradition but the people in the pews are more interested in singing hymns and listening to sermons.
As far as the Anglicans go, if you'd visited an 18th or early 19th century CofE church then it's been pretty dry for the most part - metrical Psalms and a sermon.
The fact us, other than the Quakers, the contemplative side of things has always been a broadly Catholic thing. One could argue that it brought in a more 'personal' dimension to what tends to be, in more liturgical settings, a more corporate than Individualistic experience.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Yes, Methodist ministers and local preachers are more likely to be into this sort of thing. They're wary about what they do with their congregations, though.
I've done a few contemplative-type things in Methodist contexts. They often work well.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Bibaculus
Shipmate
# 18528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda:
This is interesting. I've just been reading 'Celebration of Discipline' by Richard Foster who has a chapter on solitude, and it's a place I've been finding myself in and needing at the moment spiritually.
quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
The solitary life is a particular vocation. Many people find themselves forced into it, but that's not really the same thing. Most of us need other people.
In CoD it talks about solitude as an inner solitude as well as an external one, so that you can be surrounded by people and busyness and yet still have your own inner solitude or silence (with actual external solitude being sought as well)
well yes, it is possible to attain an inner stillness in a noisy and busy environment. One thinks of Brother Laurence in his monastery kitchen. But for most of us exterior silence is most conducive to inner stillness and the listening for God's still small voice. That is why monasteries have times and places of silence, and generally try to cultivate it.
That such silence fills a basic human need is shown by the general desire to get away from the noise of the city, the popularity of country walks and the like. I think this a recognition of the need to be still and listen, even if people are not always clear what they are trying to listen to.
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A jumped up pantry boy who never knew his place
Posts: 257 | From: In bed. Mostly. When I can get away with it. | Registered: Dec 2015
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AlexaHof
Apprentice
# 18555
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Posted
This discussion is clarifying for me a central issue around contemplation and solitude in both Christianity and wider society, that is whether it's a minority pursuit - a kind of add-on activity to 'proper church' - or whether it answers a fundamental spiritual human need which, when met, runs through and profoundly changes the experience of the religious.
Unsurprisingly, I incline to the latter view, and am intrigued by the ways in which this need is both denied in our very busy modern society and is also, despite that societal unfriendliness, finding new forms of expression. I'm thinking of some of the modern solitaries I met and how they lived an apparently ordinary life while carving out spaces for silence; also the communal version practised by a new monastic community such as the Northumbrian Community, with its metaphor of 'tide in, tide out' for the ebb and flow of togetherness and apartness in a day, in a life.
Coincidentally, I've caught TWO things about hermits on national speech radio today. One was the Radio 4 programme One to One, in which John McCarthy - who of course has spent time in enforced solitude in Beirut - interviewed perhaps the country's most media-friendly hermit, Rachel Denton. Worth a listen, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qdvl9
The other was R2's equivalent to Thought For The Day - only half listened to while driving - which concluded with a sentence featuring the word 'tonic' (I think conveying idea that solitude is a tonic to pressures of everyday life) Presenter Chris Evans seized on this word and shouted 'Cheers!' in what struck me as an interesting example of our culture's need to evade and avoid silence, stillness etc. A similar thought struck me in The Guardian's coverage of Sara Maitland's Book of Silence a few years ago. They chose to feature it in the Saturday magazine at length, but avoided all mention of faith or religion, and tried to present Maitland's decision to become a hermit as an interesting secular lifestyle choice.
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'God is dead.' Nietzsche
'Nietzsche is dead.' God
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I believe Sara Maitland is a Christian, but you can see how this subject would rub many Guardian readers up the wrong way if approached via a religious angle.
I'm reminded me that some churches have community houses, with rooms rented to church members who live together and share in prayer and other spiritual and general activities. It's probably only possible where a church has inherited a spare property and isn't forced to rent it out on the open market, of if a rare church member is willing and able to provide accommodation for the purpose.
It would be interesting to know how popular the community house practice is nowadays. What is the accepted age range, and how does it work in evangelical churches with a relatively high turn over of members? These days I wonder if some communities end up with members who are mainly there because it's a cheap housing option.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
I've been along to a number of Contemplative Fireevents. They are contemplation based and may take a distinctly creative approach at times. I find them to be a little bit of heaven. Rather limited times and geography unfortunately.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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