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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Giles Fraser on Father Jacques Hamel
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The comments are troubling.
But Guardian comments are often not very Guardian.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Guardian comments are not very Girardian.
You could argue they exemplify Girard's anthropology perfectly.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I wasn't quite sure about where to put it, or what to focus on, I admit. It's not Hellish.
Is there a better place?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I'm very uncomfortable critiquing the column given what other posters have already written, hence I'm struggling to see how there can be anything to discuss here.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Joesaphat
Shipmate
# 18493
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Posted
In the meantime, Archbishop Welby is shaking hands, taking pics and tweeting his pleasure at welcoming Muhammad Naquib urRahman, an apologist for murder if ever there was one, in Lambeth palace. I feel sick. I think for the first time in my life I might write or launch a petition.
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Opening my mouth and removing all doubt, online.
Posts: 418 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2015
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Joesaphat
Shipmate
# 18493
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Posted
The sacrifice of the cross might be 'the non-violent absorption of human violence' but for those who believe in it to shake hands with those who praise the courage and publicly bemoan the judicial death of the murderer of the governor of Punjab and praise him as a martyr is not exactly reconciliation.
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Opening my mouth and removing all doubt, online.
Posts: 418 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2015
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Joesaphat:
The sacrifice of the cross might be 'the non-violent absorption of human violence' but for those who believe in it to shake hands with those who praise the courage and publicly bemoan the judicial death of the murderer of the governor of Punjab and praise him as a martyr is not exactly reconciliation.
Sadly I have to agree with you. It will be used as an endorsement of their views by many.
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Problem with the Cross is that it can be used for anti-violence or pro-violence almost on the turn of a sixpence. Therefore, on many occasions throughout Christian History, it has alas become an implement assisting the vagaries of human attraction to violence not it's inhibitor.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Heck, the KKK uses the cross. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Joesaphat
Shipmate
# 18493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Heck, the KKK uses the cross.
I forgot, but the observation is apt.
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Opening my mouth and removing all doubt, online.
Posts: 418 | From: London | Registered: Oct 2015
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I wish Giles Fraser would get his history right.
Joan of Arc was not "burned at the stake by the English as a heretic"; having been taken prisoner by Burgundian troops fighting with the English against the French, she was handed back to the Charles the Dauphin's men because she was a woman and the commander of the English-Burgundian forces - Henry V's brother John, Duke of Bedford - didn't believe in punishing women.
Joan was tried by an ecclesiastical court (in reality the inquisition) made up of French priests, and it was this court, after much tooing and froing, that gave her over to the church authorities to be burned for witchcraft and heresy.
Some of the priests who petitioned the pope in the 1450 to have Joan canonised were the same people who had sat on the tribunal that condemned her to die at the stake.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Joan was tried by an ecclesiastical court (in reality the inquisition) made up of French priests
And the Duke of Bedford and the Earl of Warwick just happened to fill in gaps in their schedules as disinterested observers of a thoroughly independent and authentically French court.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
So the French/Romans did the English/Jews' dirty work for them to appease them, for a quiet life?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
L'organist. Your reading of history is absurdly biased. mdijon is right. This was VERY English dirty work.
I love this film treatment, nonsense as it is I'm sure. Dustin Hoffman's God is awesome. And as for Jovovich! Utter nonsense. And true.
I utterly repudiate the God the Killer I triumphed here for years. But this film is magnificent.
There is also a disturbingly brilliant portrayal of Saint Joan's murder in a film about Sarah Bernhardt. Buggered if I can track it down. AH! Glenda Jackson in The Incredible Sarah.
Great stories of a great story of an incredible girl of which God would approve as long as we don't blame Him for any of it.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I've seen headlines that the man who killed the priest has been refused a Muslim burial. Within Islam, does that have an effect on what happens to him in the afterlife?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
So the French/Romans did the English/Jews' dirty work for them to appease them, for a quiet life?
In the former case the occupied did the occupiers' bidding. In the latter both groups worked together on behalf of us all.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Hmmmmm. Yes but not in any Iron Age sense of divine justice. Although Jesus obviously thought so.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Most of world history doesn't look like a sense of divine justice to me. Why should Jesus have got off lightly?
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
As an Iron Age man seeing Himself as the ultimate blood sacrifice in Bronze-Iron Age texts full of primitive myths of divine justice He couldn't.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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