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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Cell phones for kids and for isolated communities - Costs/Benefits.
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
What do you think about the effects of technology, particularly cellphones? This article about a remote community in Canada which just started getting cellphone service. Stony Rapids is at the eastern end of Lake Athabasca and Black Lake is ~22 miles away where the Rapid River flows into Black Lake. There is no summer road, there is a winter (frozen) road.
The positive effects re safety and being able to inform others if in trouble (though not when out of cell tower range) is discussed, but so is this: quote:
The tight-knit community has changed in other ways, too. People are more often seen with their heads down, noses buried in their phones. Kids who used to constantly dash across the crushed gravel streets to meet friends are doing so less and less.
I've heard this issue re children and cell phones a few times. That they have extinguished or reduced live, face to face interaction between people. And that they also reduce physical activity and direct experience of the natural environment. I've heard stories about the effects on other northern communities where wilderness is outside the community, perhaps 5 minutes walk away. Which leads me to the questions:
-is there a lower age limit below which kids should not cell phones?
-do you ever put your phone away or leave it at home, going somewhere without it?
-have you ever been in a natural setting and someone's phone goes off?
I don't know about the first question myself, my kids were independent before cell phones were ubiquitous.
I leave my phone when out and not wanting a call, like with the dog, out on a lake in a boat, on a trail somewhere. And, when there's no cell service, which is the easy one.
I have heard phones go off and seen people take selfies with deer and elk in the background. Hate it, would like to see them banned in National and Provincial Parks for starters, Right up there with smoking.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I gave my son a cellphone (dumb phone, no games or internet access) when he started middle school, mainly so he could let me know when (not if) the bus broke down. It wasn't useful for much else, he'll tell you!
The safety thing is big for me, particularly if we're out in a remote area (that actually has cell coverage--lots don't). But we discourage our Scouts from bringing phones to camp--in case of real need, they can borrow an adult's. And the adults try to set a good example and keep them tucked away except in case of real need.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
When alien archeologists discover the remains of human life on planet earth, they will no doubt determine our terminal decline began with the advent of the smart phone.
I am Steve Jobs. Look on my works ye mighty and despair.
[ 06. September 2016, 18:50: Message edited by: Beeswax Altar ]
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
Despairing LIturgist's Corollary to the Rule of Inappropriate cell-phone use -- 'The volume/length/rudeness of the ringtone of the incoming call is directly proportional to the solemnity of the liturgical moment at which it occurs.'
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
-is there a lower age limit below which kids should not cell phones?
Certainly when children aren't doing things independently, there's no need for them to have a phone.
Beyond that, there's a difference between a basic phone that can call a parent when the child needs picking up, and a smartphone with data plan - I'd say the child needs rather more responsibility to be trusted with the latter.
quote:
-do you ever put your phone away or leave it at home, going somewhere without it?
I don't have a mobile phone - so I'm always without it. I haven't yet been able to convince myself that there were enough advantages to make it worth giving pocket space to a phone.
Mrs C has one, and often leaves it behind.
quote:
-have you ever been in a natural setting and someone's phone goes off?
Sure - occasionally. But it's not a big deal - it's not more intrusive than any of the other noises that people make. And these days, many people carry a phone as their camera, and don't own a separate camera.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I live near Washington DC. There is no school district in this region, which dares to ban cell phones. Fifteen years ago, they were =essential=.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
And that's just asinine.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
My missus has bought a smart phone for our 11 year old. 11, FFS. With luck it'll get nicked pretty soon and then we can have a sensible discussion about what a shit idea the whole thing was. Cos that sensible discussion really worked last time around, in terms of not getting the bloody thing bought in the first place...
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Last I heard, World Health has classified radiofrequency electromagnetic fields as possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).
Some people warn children are more vulnerable to damage from cell phone damage by electromagnetic fields because their skulls are much thinner than adult skulls. We won't know for sure until the population has been using cell phones for another dozen or two years.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
2B is the same rather dubious category in which they place aloe vera, carpentry, and pickled vegetables.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Cancer Research UK have some information on their website about possible cancer risks here.
Basically they're saying 'not enough data to be sure, but it looks like there isn't a link.'
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I don't have one. The last thing I want is to "stay connected," more than I already am.
I think we're going to evolve with short stubby fingers and very long agile thumbs.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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John D. Ward
Shipmate
# 1378
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Despairing LIturgist's Corollary to the Rule of Inappropriate cell-phone use -- 'The volume/length/rudeness of the ringtone of the incoming call is directly proportional to the solemnity of the liturgical moment at which it occurs.'
Have churches tried investing in equipment to block incoming signals? Are there any problems with this?
Posts: 208 | From: Swansea, Wales, U.K. | Registered: Sep 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Despairing LIturgist's Corollary to the Rule of Inappropriate cell-phone use -- 'The volume/length/rudeness of the ringtone of the incoming call is directly proportional to the solemnity of the liturgical moment at which it occurs.'
Have churches tried investing in equipment to block incoming signals? Are there any problems with this?
Jamming devices are, IIRC, illegal in the UK. Turning your building into a Faraday cage would be effective but might cause issues in the event of, say, needing an ambulance and the crew not being able to communicate from inside the building.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Every now and again, I review my decision not to have one. And each time, like Twilight, come to the conclusion that my personal sense of freedom needs me still not to have one.
I wonder whether children will learn to be as resilient as we had to be, when growing up, if they know that - at the start of any situation where they might have to think for themselves, they can instantly push a button and go 'MUUUUUUUUUUM!!!'
Perhaps they should be able to do this, perhaps not - but life is certainly different....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Every now and again, I review my decision not to have one. And each time, like Twilight, come to the conclusion that my personal sense of freedom needs me still not to have one.
I wonder whether children will learn to be as resilient as we had to be, when growing up, if they know that - at the start of any situation where they might have to think for themselves, they can instantly push a button and go 'MUUUUUUUUUUM!!!'
Perhaps they should be able to do this, perhaps not - but life is certainly different....
Yes, they will learn to be resilient, but in different ways and to different things.
I love cell phones and tablets in kids' hands - it's so quiet these days in airports and similar public spaces, no kids running round being a pain. They're all engrossed in their wee machines. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
It is incredible how we have become engrossed with computer technology. An invading army could probably march straight in without half of us noticing, providing it didn't cut off the broadband.
Quietness is becoming definitely more noticeable, even in rural areas. The absence of mischievous kids is no bad thing either. The toll it takes on our mental health remains to be seen, although some may argue we are already seeing it.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
I wonder whether children will learn to be as resilient as we had to be, when growing up, if they know that - at the start of any situation where they might have to think for themselves, they can instantly push a button and go 'MUUUUUUUUUUM!!!'
Well, certainly kids today have advantages we never had-- cell phones being only one example. I'm always trying to tell my kids/ students what it was like writing term papers w/o computers where you had to walk to a physical library and read real books and write it all out long hand, then type it up w/o making any mistakes & measuring to allow for footnotes. Writing a paper with a computer almost feels like cheating by comparison.
And yet... my students are dealing w/ stuff I never had to in my safe little world decades ago. Most of my students have had someone close to them commit suicide. More than half have lost a parent to death or divorce (yes, divorce doesn't have to mean loss of parent, but for many of my students, it did). They take on enormous debt to go to college, without the funding available when I went, and yet the prospects for a job w/o a degree are far more limited than they were for me. Most are taking on a significant role caring for younger siblings or other family members than I ever did at their age. Their childhood was marked by Columbine, 9/11, and Sandy Hook. Most are very pessimistic about the future.
And yet they persevere. They come to class. They work. They make friends. They date, fall in and out of love. They thrive.
I call that resilient.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Indeed. I also don't believe the human Spirit will be broken by having it's nose pressed up against a LED scene.
No more than it was broken by the Plague, cheap gin or two World wars.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Went to a funeral of an aunt-in-law today. Selfies at the cemetary and one person tried to have one with the priest after. I turned away and didn't see the response.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Personally I think it all went wrong when we started giving students access to printed books. When they had to copy out all their texts by hand, they would have had to know every letter of their text. Nowadays, they think they're familiar with a text just because they've got it off the shelf at the library.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
And yet they persevere. They come to class. They work. They make friends. They date, fall in and out of love. They thrive.
I call that resilient.
Hang on, I thought we were talking about children, not about young adults.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
And yet they persevere. They come to class. They work. They make friends. They date, fall in and out of love. They thrive.
I call that resilient.
Hang on, I thought we were talking about children, not about young adults.
Well the specific post I quoted/responded to was questioning how children who have grown up (i.e. have now become young adults) with cell phones will persevere. The evidence I've seen suggests they'll do just fine.
[ 11. September 2016, 23:51: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Every now and again, I review my decision not to have one. And each time, like Twilight, come to the conclusion that my personal sense of freedom needs me still not to have one.
The big change I have noticed with the ubiquity of mobile phones is the selfishness that they encourage.
In the "old days" you would agree to meet some friends at the entrance to some attraction at a particular time, and everyone would make an effort to get there a few minutes early. Now that everyone has a phone, it's easy to call and tell your friends that you're running late, that they should start without you, and that you'll call them again when you arrive and arrange to meet then.
In itself, that's useful - perhaps you're on a train that broke down, or your car has a puncture or something of that nature. More often, it seems, it's just that you couldn't be bothered to get yourself together in time, and the mobile phone allows you the latitude to be lazy.
This is nothing more than selfishness. Your friends have set aside some time from their schedules in order to spend time with you, and you should respect that.
(Despite the selfishness, it's a bit harsh to just stop making arrangements with the person, because usually their child is friends with my child, and the tardiness of the parent is not the child's fault.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Auggghhhh. Running late is not a problem that started with the cellphone era, and if anything, the phones ameliorate the problem because you're not obliged to sit there wondering if the person is dead on the side of the road or merely delayed.
And not everybody who runs late does it to be disrespectful. We've had this argument before.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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