Ship of Fools: Cell phones for kids and for isolated communities

Thread: Cell phones for kids and for isolated communities - Costs/Benefits. Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

What do you think about the effects of technology, particularly cellphones? This article about a remote community in Canada which just started getting cellphone service. Stony Rapids is at the eastern end of Lake Athabasca and Black Lake is ~22 miles away where the Rapid River flows into Black Lake. There is no summer road, there is a winter (frozen) road.

The positive effects re safety and being able to inform others if in trouble (though not when out of cell tower range) is discussed, but so is this:

quote:
The tight-knit community has changed in other ways, too. People are more often seen with their heads down, noses buried in their phones. Kids who used to constantly dash across the crushed gravel streets to meet friends are doing so less and less.

I've heard this issue re children and cell phones a few times. That they have extinguished or reduced live, face to face interaction between people. And that they also reduce physical activity and direct experience of the natural environment. I've heard stories about the effects on other northern communities where wilderness is outside the community, perhaps 5 minutes walk away. Which leads me to the questions:

-is there a lower age limit below which kids should not cell phones?
-do you ever put your phone away or leave it at home, going somewhere without it?
-have you ever been in a natural setting and someone's phone goes off?

I don't know about the first question myself, my kids were independent before cell phones were ubiquitous.

I leave my phone when out and not wanting a call, like with the dog, out on a lake in a boat, on a trail somewhere. And, when there's no cell service, which is the easy one.

I have heard phones go off and seen people take selfies with deer and elk in the background. Hate it, would like to see them banned in National and Provincial Parks for starters, Right up there with smoking.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I gave my son a cellphone (dumb phone, no games or internet access) when he started middle school, mainly so he could let me know when (not if) the bus broke down. It wasn't useful for much else, he'll tell you!

The safety thing is big for me, particularly if we're out in a remote area (that actually has cell coverage--lots don't). But we discourage our Scouts from bringing phones to camp--in case of real need, they can borrow an adult's. And the adults try to set a good example and keep them tucked away except in case of real need.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

When alien archeologists discover the remains of human life on planet earth, they will no doubt determine our terminal decline began with the advent of the smart phone.

I am Steve Jobs. Look on my works ye mighty and despair.

[ 06. September 2016, 18:50: Message edited by: Beeswax Altar ]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Despairing LIturgist's Corollary to the Rule of Inappropriate cell-phone use -- 'The volume/length/rudeness of the ringtone of the incoming call is directly proportional to the solemnity of the liturgical moment at which it occurs.'

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

-is there a lower age limit below which kids should not cell phones?

Certainly when children aren't doing things independently, there's no need for them to have a phone.

Beyond that, there's a difference between a basic phone that can call a parent when the child needs picking up, and a smartphone with data plan - I'd say the child needs rather more responsibility to be trusted with the latter.

quote:

-do you ever put your phone away or leave it at home, going somewhere without it?

I don't have a mobile phone - so I'm always without it. I haven't yet been able to convince myself that there were enough advantages to make it worth giving pocket space to a phone.

Mrs C has one, and often leaves it behind.

quote:

-have you ever been in a natural setting and someone's phone goes off?

Sure - occasionally. But it's not a big deal - it's not more intrusive than any of the other noises that people make. And these days, many people carry a phone as their camera, and don't own a separate camera.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I live near Washington DC. There is no school district in this region, which dares to ban cell phones. Fifteen years ago, they were =essential=.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

And that's just asinine.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

My missus has bought a smart phone for our 11 year old. 11, FFS. With luck it'll get nicked pretty soon and then we can have a sensible discussion about what a shit idea the whole thing was. Cos that sensible discussion really worked last time around, in terms of not getting the bloody thing bought in the first place...

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Last I heard, World Health has classified radiofrequency electromagnetic fields as possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).

Some people warn children are more vulnerable to damage from cell phone damage by electromagnetic fields because their skulls are much thinner than adult skulls. We won't know for sure until the population has been using cell phones for another dozen or two years.

Posted by Dave W. (# 8765) on :

2B is the same rather dubious category in which they place aloe vera, carpentry, and pickled vegetables.

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

Cancer Research UK have some information on their website about possible cancer risks here.

Basically they're saying 'not enough data to be sure, but it looks like there isn't a link.'

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I don't have one. The last thing I want is to "stay connected," more than I already am.

I think we're going to evolve with short stubby fingers and very long agile thumbs.

Posted by John D. Ward (# 1378) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Despairing LIturgist's Corollary to the Rule of Inappropriate cell-phone use -- 'The volume/length/rudeness of the ringtone of the incoming call is directly proportional to the solemnity of the liturgical moment at which it occurs.'

Have churches tried investing in equipment to block incoming signals? Are there any problems with this?

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Despairing LIturgist's Corollary to the Rule of Inappropriate cell-phone use -- 'The volume/length/rudeness of the ringtone of the incoming call is directly proportional to the solemnity of the liturgical moment at which it occurs.'
Have churches tried investing in equipment to block incoming signals? Are there any problems with this?

Jamming devices are, IIRC, illegal in the UK. Turning your building into a Faraday cage would be effective but might cause issues in the event of, say, needing an ambulance and the crew not being able to communicate from inside the building.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Every now and again, I review my decision not to have one. And each time, like Twilight, come to the conclusion that my personal sense of freedom needs me still not to have one.

I wonder whether children will learn to be as resilient as we had to be, when growing up, if they know that - at the start of any situation where they might have to think for themselves, they can instantly push a button and go 'MUUUUUUUUUUM!!!'

Perhaps they should be able to do this, perhaps not - but life is certainly different....

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Every now and again, I review my decision not to have one. And each time, like Twilight, come to the conclusion that my personal sense of freedom needs me still not to have one.

I wonder whether children will learn to be as resilient as we had to be, when growing up, if they know that - at the start of any situation where they might have to think for themselves, they can instantly push a button and go 'MUUUUUUUUUUM!!!'

Perhaps they should be able to do this, perhaps not - but life is certainly different....

Yes, they will learn to be resilient, but in different ways and to different things.

I love cell phones and tablets in kids' hands - it's so quiet these days in airports and similar public spaces, no kids running round being a pain. They're all engrossed in their wee machines. [Big Grin]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

It is incredible how we have become engrossed with computer technology. An invading army could probably march straight in without half of us noticing, providing it didn't cut off the broadband.

Quietness is becoming definitely more noticeable, even in rural areas. The absence of mischievous kids is no bad thing either. The toll it takes on our mental health remains to be seen, although some may argue we are already seeing it.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:

I wonder whether children will learn to be as resilient as we had to be, when growing up, if they know that - at the start of any situation where they might have to think for themselves, they can instantly push a button and go 'MUUUUUUUUUUM!!!'

Well, certainly kids today have advantages we never had-- cell phones being only one example. I'm always trying to tell my kids/ students what it was like writing term papers w/o computers where you had to walk to a physical library and read real books and write it all out long hand, then type it up w/o making any mistakes & measuring to allow for footnotes. Writing a paper with a computer almost feels like cheating by comparison.

And yet... my students are dealing w/ stuff I never had to in my safe little world decades ago. Most of my students have had someone close to them commit suicide. More than half have lost a parent to death or divorce (yes, divorce doesn't have to mean loss of parent, but for many of my students, it did). They take on enormous debt to go to college, without the funding available when I went, and yet the prospects for a job w/o a degree are far more limited than they were for me. Most are taking on a significant role caring for younger siblings or other family members than I ever did at their age. Their childhood was marked by Columbine, 9/11, and Sandy Hook. Most are very pessimistic about the future.

And yet they persevere. They come to class. They work. They make friends. They date, fall in and out of love. They thrive.

I call that resilient.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Indeed. I also don't believe the human Spirit will be broken by having it's nose pressed up against a LED scene.
No more than it was broken by the Plague, cheap gin or two World wars.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Went to a funeral of an aunt-in-law today. Selfies at the cemetary and one person tried to have one with the priest after. I turned away and didn't see the response.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Personally I think it all went wrong when we started giving students access to printed books. When they had to copy out all their texts by hand, they would have had to know every letter of their text. Nowadays, they think they're familiar with a text just because they've got it off the shelf at the library.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

And yet they persevere. They come to class. They work. They make friends. They date, fall in and out of love. They thrive.

I call that resilient.

Hang on, I thought we were talking about children, not about young adults.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

And yet they persevere. They come to class. They work. They make friends. They date, fall in and out of love. They thrive.

I call that resilient.
Hang on, I thought we were talking about children, not about young adults.

Well the specific post I quoted/responded to was questioning how children who have grown up (i.e. have now become young adults) with cell phones will persevere. The evidence I've seen suggests they'll do just fine.

[ 11. September 2016, 23:51: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Every now and again, I review my decision not to have one. And each time, like Twilight, come to the conclusion that my personal sense of freedom needs me still not to have one.

The big change I have noticed with the ubiquity of mobile phones is the selfishness that they encourage.

In the "old days" you would agree to meet some friends at the entrance to some attraction at a particular time, and everyone would make an effort to get there a few minutes early. Now that everyone has a phone, it's easy to call and tell your friends that you're running late, that they should start without you, and that you'll call them again when you arrive and arrange to meet then.

In itself, that's useful - perhaps you're on a train that broke down, or your car has a puncture or something of that nature. More often, it seems, it's just that you couldn't be bothered to get yourself together in time, and the mobile phone allows you the latitude to be lazy.

This is nothing more than selfishness. Your friends have set aside some time from their schedules in order to spend time with you, and you should respect that.

(Despite the selfishness, it's a bit harsh to just stop making arrangements with the person, because usually their child is friends with my child, and the tardiness of the parent is not the child's fault.)

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Auggghhhh. Running late is not a problem that started with the cellphone era, and if anything, the phones ameliorate the problem because you're not obliged to sit there wondering if the person is dead on the side of the road or merely delayed.

And not everybody who runs late does it to be disrespectful. We've had this argument before.

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