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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: How big should a book be?
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Some time next year I'll have a new novel coming out (Yay!!) but the publisher has asked my opinion on the format - and I suspect this is the only topic in the universe on which I have no opinion whatever!
Any thoughts? I presume paperback and preferably with a 'pick-me-up' cover, but beyond that I really have no useful ideas at all.
TIA!
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Congratulations.
A book should be the same height as the book you would put it next to on the bookshelf.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
Not a trade size paperback which are expensive, but the small, paperback size-they're always cheaper and if you want to sell more, cheaper is better IMHO.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
If you actually have a choice on the printed format (did they give you any options?), go for average paperback format. Avoid the B-format (smaller paperback) as this will be a bit too small and they are often a bit second-rate anyway. Go for the mainstream sizes. Measure the ones on your bookshelves that you like the look of and go by that. I suggest something in the range of 128 x 195 mm. This is what people are used to. They won't want anything too big or bulky and most people don't usually buy hardbacks.
Also, the bigger your book is, the thinner it will usually be because more words/lines will fit per page (unless they increase the leading to make the line gaps look wider). Paper type can vary to make the book look a bit thicker but it won't necessarily be good quality.
Is it being printed the traditional way, or going straight to print-on-demand?
Marketing counts for a lot. The cover doesn't have to be stunning if the book is marketed properly, though of course it helps.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I am astonished that a traditional publisher would ask you, the lowly author. Usually these decisions are driven by mysterious marketing analyses and paper costs, way up there in the empyrean where we cannot go.
Given that: hardbacks always look more serious. Libraries prefer them, and so do people buying presents. It is also the most expensive and thus the most profitable for the publisher if the work is a hit. A publisher's major title always appears in hardback. (Proof: throw the phrase 'first edition J.K. Rowling' into the search engine.)
Trade paper size (7 or 8 inches tall, 5-6 inches wide) also looks more like literature. This is now far and away the most popular size for books; prove it by stepping into any new-book store.
Mass market (about 6 x 4) used to be 'rack size', the size to fit into wire display racks or spinners in stores, bus stations, etc. Since these are now more rare, the size itself is less common. They are however much the most convenient to carry around. They are also the cheapest way for a publisher to test out a new author or trend; smart readers know to carefully scope out the mass market pbs to see who and what's up and coming.
E-books have to be done in the several formats that accommodate various e-readers, and this formatting is a separate and arcane art that should be left to computery experts. Your publisher should pick up this ball and run with it; it should not be an issue for the author. Book fiends have embraced e books because you can carry thousands of them on a device; older readers love them because you can pump the font. Since it costs so relatively little to have an electronic edition, you should always do it. Your publisher has probably copped those rights anyway.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
A more interesting question is how long a book should be in pages. I myself have a novel I would like to publish, but it is only about 120 pages. I may try publishing it for Kindle through Amazon.
(Then I have to decide how much to charge for it.)
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
As someone who works in a charity bookshop, hardbacks do seem to be bought for presents, then donated to said charty bookshops, where they don't sell. As a school librarian the kids tended to avoid the hardbacks unless it was the very latest offering of the most popular author, I guess becuase paperbacks fit in school bags better.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I do know that used-book stores will reject hardback fiction, also encyclopaedias and Readers Digest Condensed Books.
With e publishing length is not very important, but a paper book has to be large enough in the hand so that the purchaser feels she is getting something for her money.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I buy hardbacks from charity shops, but (of course) the price is often higher, which feels wrong for a second hand book.
How big should a book be? Just large enough to fit into a gap in my life.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Thanks for the comments so far.
Yes, I was surprised to be asked for my input about this, but then this is a new publisher for me; in the past with others the interaction has tended to amount to me getting a copy of the cover art through the post a day or two before publication!
Length isn't a problem, at least inasmuch as it's a fairly hefty MS, so no-one should feel short-changed!
Will it fill a gap in your life! Of course it will! And settle for all time the question of what really happened to Legio IX Hispana!
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
A more interesting question is how long a book should be in pages. I myself have a novel I would like to publish, but it is only about 120 pages.
Mm yes. That depends on your paper size, what margins you've set up, and what font and leading you've used, all of which can be altered to make it longer. Word count is a better indicator and is what publishers will use. 120pp of single-spaced, double-sided A4 could amount to more than you think.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It is entirely up to the publisher. You can go to a publisher's web page and read their submission requirements, which often include the exact length they will consider.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
As a rough rule of thumb, anything under 10k is a short story, below 45k a novella, below 60k a novelette, and novels are usually upwards of 75k.
I had a first draft of 300k once. Knocked it back to 285k. Still a bit of a beast though.
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Forward the New Republic
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There is in fact a legal definition for these lengths, at least in SF, which is important in handing out awards. Here is an article listing them.
This is not very important at the writerish level; your publisher will indicate clearly what length they are interested in seeing and you either adjust your stuff to fit or find another outlet for the work.
From the artistic point of view, it is better to learn concision and keep things as short as you may.
[ 29. September 2016, 20:17: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Geez. I always thought a novelette was a small novel. Because 'novelette'. And a 40k novel? I don't know of a publisher who'll take something that short. Or an agent, if you say, "I've written a novel".
Mileage varies.
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Forward the New Republic
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I have one that is currently at 40K, and I am trying to pad it out to make it 60K or so, which is more like what agents and publishers would consider. I know they prefer 75K+ for a novel.
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Blog
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
The 'padding out' thing is difficult. Some stories have a natural length, and you might have to accept that.
Go for a secondary plot arc, with possibly another POV character, but make sure it ties in with, and affects, the primary POV and their arc.
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Forward the New Republic
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
To get it from 40K to north of 60K is an increase of what, a third? That's major. I would not do this unless you could do it convincingly. A work has the length it wants to be, the same way that yarn knows what it wants to be knitted into. Force it into something it was not meant to be and it'll fight you and be ugly.
There are markets, especially on line, for all lengths -- the novella used to be just about unpublishable, but now they do well on Kindle. If you insist on paper publication, consider getting two shortish works together rather than bloating out the one story.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I have one that is currently at 40K, and I am trying to pad it out to make it 60K or so, which is more like what agents and publishers would consider. I know they prefer 75K+ for a novel.
Oh, man. I have one at about 90k that is maybe halfway done, and one at about 12k that is very much a few snippets waiting to be joined together into a whole by using (you guessed it) a load more words. Clearly I talk too fucking much.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
There are two philosophies about this. One is that you write what you write. The other is that you write for a specific market. Into this latter process comes writing it for length, selecting subject matter, age range, etc.
There are certain markets for which it is worth making a special effort. If you are writing a book for 6-year-olds you probably know that you will never be able to sell it to college students; there is just too little overlap in readership.
But assuming you are not writing for a very narrow audience -- even then, the odds of selling the thing are not high. Your chances of precisely catching that market wave are not good. Whatever the latest trend is -- zombies, romans a cle, bondage porn -- by the time you see it on Amazon it has already peaked. Rather than perpetually chasing a train that is pulling out of the station, it might be better to make your own train.
And therefore I am a proponent of writing what you want to write, and worrying about markets later. Make it what it really wants to be, a superb novella or 890K quadrology or 700 word flash fiction, whatever. And then, with this fantastic work in your hand, seek a home for it.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There are two philosophies about this. One is that you write what you write. The other is that you write for a specific market. Into this latter process comes writing it for length, selecting subject matter, age range, etc.
There are certain markets for which it is worth making a special effort. If you are writing a book for 6-year-olds you probably know that you will never be able to sell it to college students; there is just too little overlap in readership.
But assuming you are not writing for a very narrow audience -- even then, the odds of selling the thing are not high. Your chances of precisely catching that market wave are not good. Whatever the latest trend is -- zombies, romans a cle, bondage porn -- by the time you see it on Amazon it has already peaked. Rather than perpetually chasing a train that is pulling out of the station, it might be better to make your own train.
And therefore I am a proponent of writing what you want to write, and worrying about markets later. Make it what it really wants to be, a superb novella or 890K quadrology or 700 word flash fiction, whatever. And then, with this fantastic work in your hand, seek a home for it.
I'm sure you're absolutely right about that. If you sell it, then you're lucky; if not, at least you've written it out of yourself.
I'm reminded of a recently re-printed Peanuts cartoon in which Snoopy is in 'rejection slip shock' and Lucy cures him by telling him that 'It's no worse than a lot of other stuff that gets published these days'.
BTW, isn't there a particular science-fiction genre where the story consists of exactly 100 words, no more nor less?
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God's on holiday.
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Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by andras:
BTW, isn't there a particular science-fiction genre where the story consists of exactly 100 words, no more nor less?
Are you thinking of drabble? I've mostly read them in fan fiction. A well written drabble is a thing of beauty.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Yes, there are some masters of the form -- Lois Bujold has some divine ones, if you've read to the very end of Cryoburn. As with all very short forms, the drabble forces you to condense until the story becomes very pure.
The other thought, about writing for the market, is that you are then moving your story away from its natural form. You are adding ten thousand words, or pumping in the action sequences, or taking off your heroine's clothes, or whatever. Pursue this long enough, and it's no longer fun. It's no long yours, it's being written for a template that was not created by you (and that you may not be perceiving correctly anyway).
And if you're going to do that, then there are tons more lucrative ways to write. You could write press releases for politicians; you could write advertisements for soap; you could write legal briefs. And they would pay you salary and benefits! No: if you're going to do something so relatively unlikely to pay off as writing fiction, you had better be pleasing yourself, first.
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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
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Posted
I'm interested in the significance of the distinctions being discussed here (short story, novella, novel and so on). Who are they for?
Are these distinctions for publishers, so that they can distinguish between a novel, which can be published on its own and a novella which, to be published, would normally need something extra (such as short stories or another novella)? Alternatively, are these distinctions also for authors, to help writers think about the level of complexity (such as sub-plots and alternative point of view characters) in a writing project?
I have read far more novels than novellas - the only novellas I can immediately remember reading were Anne McCaffrey's Nerilka's Story & the Coelura). In these days of e-publishing, I wonder if novellas will become more popular. But maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps, as Brenda Clough pointed out, stories should be whatever length they want to be and perhaps this is often the length of a novel.
[ 01. October 2016, 10:26: Message edited by: Alwyn ]
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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alwyn:
I'm interested in the significance of the distinctions being discussed here (short story, novella, novel and so on). Who are they for?
Are these distinctions for publishers, so that they can distinguish between a novel, which can be published on its own and a novella which, to be published, would normally need something extra (such as short stories or another novella)? Alternatively, are these distinctions also for authors, to help writers think about the level of complexity (such as sub-plots and alternative point of view characters) in a writing project?
I have read far more novels than novellas - the only novellas I can immediately remember reading were Anne McCaffrey's Nerilka's Story & the Coelura). In these days of e-publishing, I wonder if novellas will become more popular. But maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps, as Brenda Clough pointed out, stories should be whatever length they want to be and perhaps this is often the length of a novel.
I think that novellas have in fact already become more poplular, though perhaps English readers don't always think of them as a genre in themselves (they're much more distinct in German, for example, and a lot of classic French novels, such as Vol de Nuit are really novellas).
Brokeback Mountain, for instance, is surely a novella rather than a novel, which may be why it made a somewhat unsatisfactory full-length film - at least that's how it struck me.
There's an argument that the length of a novel depends on the tools available to the writer. If all you have is a quill pen, then it will perhaps be shorter than if you have a nice steel nib, hence the development of the massive Victorian three-decker novel.
A typewriter, of course, makes even longer books a possible, and computers make books of almost infinite length practicable, both to write and to read (via Kindle).
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God's on holiday.
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Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
If it's to be a hardback, then it doesn't much matter - "standard size" (whatever that may be!)
It's much more important for paperbacks, though. I tend to find the smallest "standard" size of paperbacks frustratingly small - there's just too little to get hold of. I was initially pleased that paperbacks suddenly became bigger than the old standard "rack size" (not least because it tends to mean not that the story is longer, but because the spacing is better and the print more manageable.)
BUT (and it's a BIG important but...)
For some of us, the chief value in paperbacks lies in the fact that we can read them in the bath. Big paperbacks are a bad idea for bathtime readers! They're too heavy to hold up or so big that one has to hold them so high (to keep them out of the water) that one can't see the writing properly (especially since bathtime means absence of specs.)
I have, this evening, researched this issue specifically for you. A paperback I read recently (Karen Armstrong's "Islam") was fine for bathtime reading at c.125mm x c.195mm. My latest read (Diarmaid MacCulloch's "Thomas Cranmer") is not fine for bathtime at c.150mm x c.23mm.
Depth obviously makes a difference, too, (Armstrong 12mm - MacCulloch 36mm) but I didn't really consider that in my assessment. Nor did I consider the mass, which is probably also important when holding a book whilst in the bath. (Armstrong not a lot - MacCulloch about four stone!)
I trust this research has been of value.
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
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Teekeey Misha
Shipmate
# 18604
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
My latest read (Diarmaid MacCulloch's "Thomas Cranmer") is not fine for bathtime at c.150mm x c.23mm.
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) Um... That should, of course, read "c.230mm". I don't think MacCulloch has ever written a sentence 23mm long, let alone a book!
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Misha
Don't assume I don't care; sometimes I just can't be bothered to put you right.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
What electronic publishing has done is make novellas more -available-. You can find them on Amazon for Kindle, easy. Whereas before, when you had to find them in paper magazines, many forces kept their numbers low. Only so many pages in a paper publication; for every 17,000 word novella you publish you could've shoved in 4 7,000 word short stories, etc. And so if your natural length was the novella, in the old days you had a powerful incentive to pad it out into novel length. Whereas now, you can get it out there.
It has been argued that the novella is the natural length for SF, and certainly some of the great works of the genre were of that length category. Just long enough to get in the world building you need, not so long that your concept is weighted down by all the implications you don't want to get into. The length is far rarer in mystery, where it's either short or novel length, or romance, where novels rule.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
I'd never really thought about laying out a book for easy reading in the bath! An interesting concept!
In German a novel is a Roman, whereas the shorter work is a Novelle - which perhaps marks a long-standing difference in reading-habits between the English- and German-speaking publics.
I do agree that Kindle and its ilk have made some forms easier to find - and to get published in - but whether it's actually profitable for writers in those forms is another matter; self-publishing for Kindle alone has always struck me as something of an admission of failure, but that's probably just me being snooty!
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Amazon Kindle publishing is a poor way to -begin-. If nobody knows who you are, your work is going to get lost in the raging torrent of other unknowns pushing their works out onto an unsuspecting market. If you are already known, in any way, then it is possible to make some money.
It is the only way, for instance, to get your backlist earning again -- the works that were published years ago and are now out of print. I know of older writers who enjoyed a popularity in the 70s or 80s. All their paper books are long out of print, and it is not worth while for any commercial publisher to put out a new edition. But in electronic format a steady trickle of money comes in. It is the 'long tail' concept of marketing.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Amazon Kindle publishing is a poor way to -begin-. If nobody knows who you are, your work is going to get lost in the raging torrent of other unknowns pushing their works out onto an unsuspecting market. If you are already known, in any way, then it is possible to make some money.
It is the only way, for instance, to get your backlist earning again -- the works that were published years ago and are now out of print. I know of older writers who enjoyed a popularity in the 70s or 80s. All their paper books are long out of print, and it is not worth while for any commercial publisher to put out a new edition. But in electronic format a steady trickle of money comes in. It is the 'long tail' concept of marketing.
That's certainly the way I use Kindle, either for foreign language books or for those which are either out of print or hard to get my hands on.
For instance, when I was a lad my father borrowed a copy of Rider Haggard's Eric Brighteyes from the local library, so of course I read it. Later at University I studied Old Norse, and a couple of years back I revisited Haggard's try at a saga to see whether I'd still enjoy it (is it available in print? Not easily, anyway!)
To my delight I found that it's very good and catches the spirit of the sagas extremely well, right down to the give-away turns of phrase such as ... and now so-and-so is out of this story - without which you know that a character who has just left the scene will come back unexpectedly some day, probably bringing trouble in his / her wake.
Could I have enjoyed it again without Kindle? Probably not.
Advice to others: read this one! Haggard actually learnt Old Norse purely in order to be able to read the sagas in their original language, and his hommage to them really is worth a read, and quite different from his usual work.
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
... actually on checking up I see that Amazon do have it in print!
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God's on holiday.
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Adrian Plass
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I thought the Wuthering Heights cover actually captured the whole foile a deux thing Cathy and Heathcliff had going on. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I thought the Wuthering Heights cover actually captured the whole foile a deux thing Cathy and Heathcliff had going on.
What a strapline, though. 'Love never dies'. Geez. Everyone fucking dies.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
As someone who works in a charity bookshop, hardbacks do seem to be bought for presents, then donated to said charity bookshops, where they don't sell.
I work in the book section of a charity shop, and I would agree with this. But I think oversized paperbacks are even worse than hardbacks; they look awkward on shelves (if they even fit) and aren't as hard-wearing as hardbacks.
A writer who wants their novel (whether new or secondhand) to be read by as many people as possible, should focus on paperbacks of the standard size. In the UK look at what's displayed on tables in Waterstones to see what that looks like.
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
My latest read (Diarmaid MacCulloch's "Thomas Cranmer") is not fine for bathtime at c.150mm x c.23mm.
Um... That should, of course, read "c.230mm". I don't think MacCulloch has ever written a sentence 23mm long, let alone a book!
That’s less of a book and more of a doorstop or offensive weapon. Books like that are perfect for Kindle. They're too large for carrying about too read on the train and if I saw how large they actually were, I might decide not to bother.
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Amazon Kindle publishing is a poor way to -begin-. If nobody knows who you are, your work is going to get lost in the raging torrent of other unknowns pushing their works out onto an unsuspecting market. If you are already known, in any way, then it is possible to make some money.
It is the only way, for instance, to get your backlist earning again -- the works that were published years ago and are now out of print. I know of older writers who enjoyed a popularity in the 70s or 80s. All their paper books are long out of print, and it is not worth while for any commercial publisher to put out a new edition. But in electronic format a steady trickle of money comes in. It is the 'long tail' concept of marketing.
There are exceptions … The Martian started out as a Kindle freebie as did Fifty Shades of Whatnot … I remember The Martian going viral as my boss picked it up as a freebie, insisted I read it as it was so good and then we both watched it fly. (Sorry!) It totally deserved the success it’s had as it’s an amazing idea well done. Be interesting to see what he does next. The other one, well … Not so much.
A few authors have said on their websites they’re reformatting their old books for Kindle. And are finding a whole new market as well as a very pleased set of existing readers who want to replace their very tatty elderly copies. I just wish Freda Warrington worked faster! I’m still waiting on the Elfland books.
Tubbs
[ 02. November 2016, 09:07: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
No point in being precious about this, I write because I have something to say and want to be paid for doing so! So readers who pick up a second-hand copy aren't a major preoccupation for me, unless it tempts them to spend their money on something else I've written.
My current publishers won't touch Kindle and refer to it as the 'K word'. Given Amazon's attitude to publishers and authors I don't blame them.
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Adrian Plass
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
If they aren't interested in the electronic rights, be sure that you retain them. Read your contract. Do not let them default to a publisher who will do nothing with them! If the work is a hit you can market the electronic rights separately.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If they aren't interested in the electronic rights, be sure that you retain them. Read your contract. Do not let them default to a publisher who will do nothing with them! If the work is a hit you can market the electronic rights separately.
Thanks, already sorted! Of course this raises other issues such as use of cover art but I don't think there's a major stumbling block there.
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Adrian Plass
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
You may well be able to discuss getting permission to use the cover for the electronic edition. Failing that, find the artist. The artist usually retains the art itself, and all the rights to it. She will have licensed them to the publisher for use on the book cover. And she might well be happy letting you have the same art for the ebook edition. All you'd have to do then is to get someone to put the title, your name and so on onto the art.
This is how it worked with my novel How Like A God, which had an extremely evocative cover by artist Rick Berry. Berry was perfectly happy to license me the ebook rights to his art. If you google around you can see both covers -- they are slightly different even though the art is the same, because I had to put on the various bits of type.
[ 02. November 2016, 23:14: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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cattyish
Wuss in Boots
# 7829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by andras:
Thanks for the comments so far.
Yes, I was surprised to be asked for my input about this, but then this is a new publisher for me; <snip>
Legio IX Hispana!
I wonder whether your existing readers might like a similar format to previous books published through another house. then they would happily sit on the shelf together.
Cattyish, at the NaNoWriMo lark.
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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I think a book should be long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to be interesting...
I think someone said that first about skirts,
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
You may well be able to discuss getting permission to use the cover for the electronic edition. Failing that, find the artist. The artist usually retains the art itself, and all the rights to it. She will have licensed them to the publisher for use on the book cover. And she might well be happy letting you have the same art for the ebook edition. All you'd have to do then is to get someone to put the title, your name and so on onto the art.
This is how it worked with my novel How Like A God, which had an extremely evocative cover by artist Rick Berry. Berry was perfectly happy to license me the ebook rights to his art. If you google around you can see both covers -- they are slightly different even though the art is the same, because I had to put on the various bits of type.
Very impressive cover(s) - and thanks for the tip!
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Adrian Plass
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cattyish:
quote:
Originally posted by andras:
Thanks for the comments so far.
Yes, I was surprised to be asked for my input about this, but then this is a new publisher for me; <snip>
Legio IX Hispana!
I wonder whether your existing readers might like a similar format to previous books published through another house. then they would happily sit on the shelf together.
Cattyish, at the NaNoWriMo lark.
Now that might be a very sensible idea for some writers, but my previous published writing has consisted of (1) a lot of computer and programming books, manuals etc and (2) short stories and poems published in anthologies or broadcast.
Whether A Small War in Eden and the rest of the quartet would sit comfortably on a shelf alongside a book on programming in C++ seems unlikely to me, beside which the other books were in a variety of different formats, and not all in English!
Good idea though, just sadly not practical this time!
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God's on holiday.
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Adrian Plass
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It is far more important if your books are similar in topic or genre, or part of a series. It is to J.K. Rowling's advantage if all the Harry Potter books look similar (but by no means identical) so that people can immediately recognize them on the store shelf.
All these details are properly the domain of the Art Dept. and book designers. Which is an arcane and very specific art; you can usually tell by looking at the covers the professionally published books versus the self-pubbed. I could show you oh! such examples as would make your hair stand on end.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is far more important if your books are similar in topic or genre, or part of a series. It is to J.K. Rowling's advantage if all the Harry Potter books look similar (but by no means identical) so that people can immediately recognize them on the store shelf.
All these details are properly the domain of the Art Dept. and book designers. Which is an arcane and very specific art; you can usually tell by looking at the covers the professionally published books versus the self-pubbed. I could show you oh! such examples as would make your hair stand on end.
I'm sure you could! My own bugbear is poor choice of fonts and leading, but then I come from a family of printers and learned how to do it properly from an early age.
Question - is Comic Sans the actual work of the powers of darkness, or just a sign of man's innate foolishness?
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Adrian Plass
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
It is a clear argument for Original Sin.
I am (for my sins) on a jury panel this year for one of the major awards, and my mailbox is full of books. I could sit here and immediately sort out for you the ones which were self-published and the ones that had a professional publication. Wouldn't even need to read the words, one glance would do it.
And the errors to which the self-pubber is prone! It would bring tears to your eyes. I have a book here which has no author name on it. Neither on the front cover, nor the spine, nor the title page. For added aggravation, the title of the book is in eight-point italic in the lower right hand corner, just where your thumb will cover it.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Once upon a time there was something called the Vanity Press, where the unpublished could spend their money for the thrill of seeing their work in print. In fairness, some good stuff was published in that way, including Fitzgerald's translation of Khayyam, but most of it was pretty dire.
Nowadays there's Self Publishing, which I'm afraid I think of as the Vanity Press by another name, with the added disadvantage that the poor writer has to try to do it all him- or herself. This is not to say that all self-published stuff is bad or a waste of paper, but there aren't a lot of people out there who have the skills to produce a professional-looking book. Like you, Brenda, I've seen some quite ghastly covers, often enclosing equally badly written prose.
It's not quite panic-stations here, but I had a very friendly email from my editor this morning warning me that publication of A Small War has been brought forward to early 2017 and please can I hurry up with my final edit. Aaarrrggghhh!
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God's on holiday.
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Adrian Plass
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