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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Queen Elizabeth and Communion
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
On Friday I watched on TV some parts of the State
Funeral of the recently deceased Queen Fabiola of the Belgians.
A state ceremony with lots of music but at the same time a simple and dignified Funeral Mass.
Very moving were the prayers offered by three very young members of the Royal family,one in Dutch,one in French and one in English.
At the appropriate moment the Royal family received Communion.
I understand that the Supreme Governor of the Church of England does not normally receive Communion in public. Since the eucharist is considered to be the most important part of the Anglican liturgy ,I think, why is it that the eucharist is never ? a part of Anglican Royal ceremonies ?
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
It is part of the Coronation, isn't it? But was it then administered out of public view?
I don't know why the Queen does not communicate in public, especially as she is in other ways very willing to witness to her faith. I wish she would.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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# 10745
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Posted
I have heard it said that our present Monarch prefers Morning Prayer as her chosen worship service, rather than Holy Communion. I cannot say how often she receives Communion. A future British Monarch will not necessarily take the same point of view regarding their preferred worship service.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Until well on in the current reign, Morning Prayer was the normal Sunday morning (ie the one starting between 10 and 11 in the morning)service in the CofE. As it had been for a century or more, since monarchs started attending SUnday service in public. For all we know, she routinely attends an earlier said service of Holy COmmunion -- which would again be in line with practices in the church from the 1870s on to at least when she was growing up and in her young adulthood.
We know nothing at all about her faith or her worship preferences from this custom. As HM is notoriously conservative when it comes to changing things from the way they have been, I suspect the custom of HM not receiving is a habit and a hang over from earlier times.
John
[ 13. December 2014, 14:03: Message edited by: John Holding ]
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
from the late John Betjeman on the death of King George V
"Old men who never cheated, never doubted,
Communicated monthly, sit and stare
At the new suburb stretched beyond the runway
Where a young man lands hatless from the air."
I can't answer the question but one should not forget that HMQ was born as long ago as 1926. She grew up in the days when all services were 1662. The normal morning service was Morning Prayer. Holy Communion was celebrated at 8 am without music, and probably without a sermon.
The Belgian royal family is Catholic. Belgium is traditionally defined as a Catholic country, the provinces that remained Hapsburg, in contrast to Holland which speaks the same language but became independent as Protestant. The House of Windsor is Protestant.
The CofE has not traditionally understood Holy Communion as a mass that can be offered on behalf of someone or something else. So a CofE funeral is not a requiem.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I have heard it said that our present Monarch prefers Morning Prayer as her chosen worship service, rather than Holy Communion. I cannot say how often she receives Communion. A future British Monarch will not necessarily take the same point of view regarding their preferred worship service.
It wouldn't seem to be primarily about personal preference, though, since it's not just the Queen but the royal family as a whole who don't (normally) receive the Sacrament in public. I was at St James' Cathedral in Toronto on a Sunday when the Earl of Wessex read the first lesson, and the 11am service was replaced with Mattins. At half past noon those who wanted to make their Communion gathered in the choir stalls for a low mass at the high altar.
We have had a couple of threads on royal churchmanship in the past. It was suggested that there is a more high-church strain through the Scottish influence of the Bowes-Lyons, and that the late Queen Mother and Princess Margaret were known to buck the foregoing trend.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I have to say that if I lived in the public eye (as unlikely a thought as it would be unwelcome!) and was frequently filmed or photographed, I would much prefer to keep Holy Communion a private thing as well. Yes, it publically witnesses to one's faith but it is also a very intimate act.
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Flinging wide the gates...
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Nor would I want my tongue photographed whilst sticking it out, either to receive the Most Precious Body or otherwise.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Utrecht Catholic
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# 14285
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Posted
With regard to some remarks made about Holland and Belgium I have to correct some information.
Holland or better the Netherlands has never become a full Protestant Country,about 40% of its population has remained Roman-Catholic.The Southern part has always been predominantly Catholic.]
Furthermore, Belgium is a bilingual country 60% is Dutch speaking,and 40% is French speaking.
I was not so amazed to learn that Toronto Cathedral replaced its customary Choral Eucharist with Mattins, because of the visit of Prince William.The same decision was made a few years ago when Prince Charles visited St.George's Cathedral in Caoe Towwn.
Frankly is it not a weird or arrogant attitude of the Britsh Royal family not to accept the tradition of the Cathedral/Church they attend for the Sunday Worship ?
If they are unwilling to receive, they can stay in their pews.
I have never heard of these strange conditions made by other Royal families.
I watched too the whole funeral mass for Queen Fabiola and I was deeply moved by the beautiful liturgy, sermon and its music.
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Robert Kennedy
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
May I suggest you might be reading too much into the situation? I suspect no demands/requests were made at all. But it is a tad awkward to have Holy Communion when some of your most, er, visible guests cannot participate, and would not be permitted to receive even if they wished to--and perhaps the planners (NOT the guests) chose to alter things to avoid this.
A similar problem comes up for my own congregation occasionally, though more to do with Buddhist visitors than with another Christian denomination.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Utrecht Catholic writes:
quote:
Frankly is it not a weird or arrogant attitude of the Britsh Royal family not to accept the tradition of the Cathedral/Church they attend for the Sunday Worship ?
Not necessarily, and in my former RL when I was on the fringes of state ceremonial activities, there were three reasons which came up at planning sessions. A non-Communion services encourages the participation of other Christians outside the denomination in question. It is shorter and easier to schedule details-- remember that public worship at which a monarch or president assists ends up being a public and official act, no matter what the local establishment-of-religion rules might be and their time is so tightly scheduled that it is borderline unbelievable. And, perhaps most seriously, it is much easier for security considerations, as there are fewer people moving in and around and about; with people going up to receive, it is difficult to provide control of access and protection to the VIP, and ensure rapid exit should a situation require it.
My own preference is that presidential and royal types should worship in private chapels away from the public gaze, but I was never at a level where my opinion was going to be sought.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Utrecht Catholic:
I watched too the whole funeral mass for Queen Fabiola and I was deeply moved by the beautiful liturgy, sermon and its music.
It is not too late to file a Mystery Worship report if you remember enough details of the service.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Nor would I want my tongue photographed whilst sticking it out, either to receive the Most Precious Body or otherwise.
I'm sure Her Majesty would never do something as Romish as to receive on the tongue.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Utrecht Catholic:
I watched too the whole funeral mass for Queen Fabiola and I was deeply moved by the beautiful liturgy, sermon and its music.
It is not too late to file a Mystery Worship report if you remember enough details of the service.
I thought you were supposed to actually be at the service to submit a report.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I thought you were supposed to actually be at the service to submit a report.
We've made several exceptions in the case of noteworthy services that it would have been difficult or impossible to attend: for example, here, here and here.
It strikes me that this service would have been a good candidate, but I don't mean to derail the thread with this tangent.
[ 14. December 2014, 10:50: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
For anyone interested in the funeral ceremonies for Queen Fabiola,one can find a number of short clips with commentary in Dutch under the rubric Kon Fabiola at De Redactie.BE.
There are full videos of the RTBF coverage in French,but they are not authorised for viewing in the UK at the moment
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Must have a look at them. On a slight tangent, who could fail to have a soft spot for a Queen whose name sounds like a piece of Polari?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Must have a look at them. On a slight tangent, who could fail to have a soft spot for a Queen whose name sounds like a piece of Polari?
Or sticky-backed plastic à la Blue Peter.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Arch Anglo Catholic
Shipmate
# 15181
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Posted
I understand, from someone well placed to be right and have knowledge of such things, that Her Majesty regularly receives communion, but usually within the royal residence and at the private chapel therein.
It is also correct that Holy Communion forms an integral part of the Coronation Service.
That our monarch quietly gets on with her faith and work, and that we know little about the intimate details thereof, says much about her and perhaps something else about our prurience.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
... That our monarch quietly gets on with her faith and work, and that we know little about the intimate details thereof, says much about her and perhaps something else about our prurience.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I'll back that view as well.
The Windsor fire in 1992 destroyed the private chapel and HM was most distraught that she lost the book of devotions she had been given by Geoffrey Fisher before her coronation.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Vidi Aquam
Apprentice
# 18433
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Posted
Queen Elizabeth II attended my parish church (St. John's Episcopal) in Versailles, Kentucky (USA) one Sunday in the 80s when I was there. All 3 services on Sunday were always Holy Eucharist, but when HM came it was changed to one service of "Mattins", since she did not receive Communion in public. St. John's was about halfway up the candle, but when the Queen came, they pulled out all the stops! The rector even wore a biretta (!), which he never did, before or since. I still have the program from the day, and I can scan it in if anyone wants to see it.
If I remember correctly, HM was visiting a horse farm in the area. She entered the church in the back entrance, to avoid the paparazzi, and was going to sneak out the same way, but I guess she changed her mind, because her procession went on out the main door of the church, where she passed right by me on her way. There was a huge crowd of people outside, new crews, etc. They all let out a magnificent cheer!
I will never forget it!!!
My mother said that it was ironic that I saw the Queen when I lived in Kentucky, but not when I lived in London.
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
In my experience the Anglican Church has changed over the years in relation to Communion services. In my youth my church only celebrated Communion once a month and Mattins on all the other Sundays. I'm not sure at what stage or why this changed to the point that Communion is now obligatory and Mattins is viewed as an anachronism. Many younger people in my church have never experienced Mattins even though the service appears in print in the prayer book.
I would think that the Queen would certainly have experienced predominantly Mattins services from early childhood and I can understand why she would then want to keep this tradition. She is of the same generation as my late parents who very much favoured the Mattins service.
I admire the fact that she keeps her participation in the Eucharist private. Why should she be treated as though she is in a goldfish bowl for all occasions? She is entitled to some personal privacy.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Do you think those changes arose as a result of the "Parish Communion" movement in the 1950s?
Certainly the Low Church CofE in which I was brought up moved from having 11 am "Matins" as its main service (probably with an 8 am Communion), to having 9.30 am "Family Communion" on a weekly basis. That would have been around 1962 I guess, and it provoked mixed reactions. It still seems to have much the same pattern, although Matins seems to have vanished completely.
Conversely, a local "civic" church I know has 8 am Communion, 9.30 am Choral Matins and 11 am Parish Communion each week (usually sung, too). I don't know the relative numbers at the two later services.
[ 02. July 2015, 14:02: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Not just Low Church. 8 am HC & 11 am Mattins was pretty well the definition of Middle of the Road.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The attitude of the CofE towards communion has changed, or at least the attitude of the clergy.
Back in the day when the BCP first appeared (I'm talking 1549) the habit of taking one's communion daily was a fairly new one that arrived in court circles in England with Catherine of Aragon.
Before that, if you read contemporary records of people like Erasmus, Thomas More, John Colet, etc, although the service of the Mass might be celebrated daily, that didn't mean that everyone at the service took communion. When Catherine arrived she brought the habit of daily communion within the Mass with her.
The BCP had the service of Matins placed in such prominence because the morning offices were usually well-attended before the daily celebration of the Mass.
You could argue that the loss of Matins is, in fact, taking the CofE away from its roots.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Do you think those changes arose as a result of the "Parish Communion" movement in the 1950s?
Absolutely. What I find funny/ironic now is that this change has been so completely accepted that people can really get huffy if you suggest doing a non-Eucharistic service for any reason. And I am not talking about particularly "high" Anglicans either.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Queen Victoria couldn't understand why such a morbid service as Holy Communion should be compulsory on Easter Day.
Well, I agree with her. Communion on Maundy Thursday evening - absolutely.
Early on Easter Day - perhaps.
As the culmination of a service celebrating Jesus' risen life - no way. (But not all my congregation would agree).
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
I understand, from someone well placed to be right and have knowledge of such things, that Her Majesty regularly receives communion, but usually within the royal residence and at the private chapel therein.
It is also correct that Holy Communion forms an integral part of the Coronation Service.
That our monarch quietly gets on with her faith and work, and that we know little about the intimate details thereof, says much about her and perhaps something else about our prurience.
Communion is just that: communion. It's designed to be shared with others in public. faith is personal but never private.
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
As the culmination of a service celebrating Jesus' risen life - no way. (But not all my congregation would agree).
Nor would I. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
"As often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes again." There is no coming again without the resurrection. There are a number of stories in the NT, starting with the Emmaus story, that show the early church clearly associated the breaking of bread with the risen Christ.
I welcome Easter communion as a chance to counter that tendency all too common, at least in Protestantism, to see Jesus's crucifixion and his resurrection as two separate things rather than as part of the one paschal mystery.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Rowan Williams commented, in his latest book,Being Christian, that Queen Victoria couldn't understand why such a morbid service as Holy Communion should be compulsory on Easter Day.
Typical of that queen's screwed-up Hanover/Coburg theology! (At least IMNSHO)
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You can't retire from a calling.
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The attitude of the CofE towards communion has changed, or at least the attitude of the clergy.
Back in the day when the BCP first appeared (I'm talking 1549) the habit of taking one's communion daily was a fairly new one that arrived in court circles in England with Catherine of Aragon.
Before that, if you read contemporary records of people like Erasmus, Thomas More, John Colet, etc, although the service of the Mass might be celebrated daily, that didn't mean that everyone at the service took communion. When Catherine arrived she brought the habit of daily communion within the Mass with her.
Indeed, well into the 20th century in Anglo-catholic parishes it was not unusual to attend Mass and not receive Communion. We referred to it as 'hearing Mass.' One typically received Communion only when fasting (from midnight! in those days), and of course having been to Confession.
This was, I admit, in a rather high-up-the-candle situation.
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Rowan Williams commented, in his latest book,Being Christian, that Queen Victoria couldn't understand why such a morbid service as Holy Communion should be compulsory on Easter Day.
Typical of that queen's screwed-up Hanover/Coburg theology! (At least IMNSHO)
I have heard that she preferred the CoS*. But she did take a serious interest in the CofE, as, come to think of it, have most of our Queens- Elizabeth I, Anne, and of course Her present Majesty.
*Another trait of hers against which her eldest son reacted. Insofar as he had any religion it was, AIUI, a long way up the candle, and there were rumours in the 1940s/50s that he had been received into the RCC on his deathbed. But perhaps this just reflected Victoria's love of all things Scottish and Edward VII's of all things French. BTW I wonder what kind of churchman Dean le Breton- Lily Langtry's father- was.
[ 02. July 2015, 21:21: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The BCP Holy Communion going on and on and on about sin may be morbid.
The Christian Eucharist (of which it is a decadent variant) certainly isn't as it celebrates Christ's risen presence among us in word and sacrament.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
The reason why in more normal parishes Holy Communion was at 8 am was so that people could receive before breakfast, and without having to go without their breakfast.
As I mentioned on 13th December, the usual pattern in the CofE from the mid C19 until well after the 2nd World War, was Holy Communion 8am, Matins 11 am, Evensong 6 or 6.30 pm. The more pious tended to take Communion once a month and at big festivals.
As the 1950s moved into the 1960s churches gradually began to introduce a monthly Family Communion.
Old men who never cheated, never doubted,
Communicated monthly, sit and stare
At the new suburb stretched beyond the runway
Where a young man lands hatless from the air.
John Betjeman on the Death of King George V.
I hope that quotation doesn't infringe ship rules. It complies with s 30 of the UK Copyright, Design and Patents Act 1988 as amended.
[ 02. July 2015, 21:55: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Do you think those changes arose as a result of the "Parish Communion" movement in the 1950s?
Yes, though the parish communion movement dates to the 1920s, with the Anglo-Catholic Congresses.
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Communion is just that: communion. It's designed to be shared with others in public. faith is personal but never private.
While I agree with this, I don't have to contend with the problem that my mere presence may be a significant distraction to others from what ought to be their focus at communion, and where the details of how I participate may be a matter of public scrutiny, and attract the intrusive interest of others.
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
Utrecht Catholic writes:
quote:
Frankly is it not a weird or arrogant attitude of the Britsh Royal family not to accept the tradition of the Cathedral/Church they attend for the Sunday Worship ?
Not necessarily, and in my former RL when I was on the fringes of state ceremonial activities, there were three reasons which came up at planning sessions. A non-Communion services encourages the participation of other Christians outside the denomination in question. It is shorter and easier to schedule details-- remember that public worship at which a monarch or president assists ends up being a public and official act, no matter what the local establishment-of-religion rules might be and their time is so tightly scheduled that it is borderline unbelievable. And, perhaps most seriously, it is much easier for security considerations, as there are fewer people moving in and around and about; with people going up to receive, it is difficult to provide control of access and protection to the VIP, and ensure rapid exit should a situation require it.
My own preference is that presidential and royal types should worship in private chapels away from the public gaze, but I was never at a level where my opinion was going to be sought.
Organizing timing and security sounds like the best explanation of Her Majesty's custom of attending services of the Word. And making it a standard MO avoids people analysing why she would receive Communion at one church event and not another.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Organizing timing and security sounds like the best explanation of Her Majesty's custom of attending services of the Word. And making it a standard MO avoids people analysing why she would receive Communion at one church event and not another.
It may also suggest that the Queen is not as enamoured of her subjects as is sometimes pointed out. What, share with all those unwashed people? They're not wearing gloves!
In today's world it is perfectly possible to fit communion within security and time constraints. The Queen and others simply chose not to - thereby making a very profound statement.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Organizing timing and security sounds like the best explanation of Her Majesty's custom of attending services of the Word. And making it a standard MO avoids people analysing why she would receive Communion at one church event and not another.
It may also suggest that the Queen is not as enamoured of her subjects as is sometimes pointed out. What, share with all those unwashed people? They're not wearing gloves!
In today's world it is perfectly possible to fit communion within security and time constraints. The Queen and others simply chose not to - thereby making a very profound statement.
I suppose it would be possible to jump to those conclusions, but I can't help feeling that one would have to be standing on a springboard which was biased towards ungenerosity of spirit and ingrained snarl to do so.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
It might be a bit contentious if the Queen suddenly allowed herself to be filmed taking Communion in public now, but it might have been constructive earlier in her reign, when the nation was more comfortable with displays of Christian faith.
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
I think that if anything she has become more publicly explicit about her faith as time has gone on- look at the content of her Christmas addresses in recent years, for example. I've never heard that this makes anyone particularly uncomfortable.
Of course there's communcating in public, and being filmed doing so. I don't care how many people see me receiving the Sacrament but I think I'd draw the line at being filmed doing so except perhaps very incidentally- just wouldn't seem right, for some reason.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Utrecht Catholic
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# 14285
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Posted
If other kings and queens e.g.the Scandinavian
Lutherans, of Denmark,Norway and Sweden and the Catholics of Belgium and Spain,receive communion during public celebrations of the Eucharist then I am wondering why does the Britsh Monarch not do the same ?
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Robert Kennedy
Posts: 220 | From: Dordrecht | Registered: Nov 2008
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Augustine the Aleut
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# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Organizing timing and security sounds like the best explanation of Her Majesty's custom of attending services of the Word. And making it a standard MO avoids people analysing why she would receive Communion at one church event and not another.
It may also suggest that the Queen is not as enamoured of her subjects as is sometimes pointed out. What, share with all those unwashed people? They're not wearing gloves!
In today's world it is perfectly possible to fit communion within security and time constraints. The Queen and others simply chose not to - thereby making a very profound statement.
Having had to work IRL with security and scheduling of state ceremonial, I will assure any reader, and do so with strength of expression, that this is not so. While it is not impossible, it requires other layouts (such as seating the King & Queen of Spain in the chancel and ensuring a security barrier between them and the congregation) or placing communion stations well away from the seated VIP. It also creates a 5-10 minute period beyond control, which with these events is too great and makes an emergency exit much more difficult.
A further consideration for a ceremonial event is that Communion is highly exclusive, not only of RCs, but of Jews and Muslims, as well as a big chunk of non-religious citizens-- this was something Edward VII figured out a century ago. In planning state ceremonial occasions, Muslim and Jewish representatives told me of their relief when they learned a service was to be Morning Prayer.
Coronations include a communion service, but then the day is set aside for the Coronation, and schedules can accommodate it. That's not so easy when you're squeezing 4-8 events for a woman in her late 80s.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Vidi Aquam
Apprentice
# 18433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
A further consideration for a ceremonial event is that Communion is highly exclusive, not only of RCs, but of Jews and Muslims, as well as a big chunk of non-religious citizens-- this was something Edward VII figured out a century ago. In planning state ceremonial occasions, Muslim and Jewish representatives told me of their relief when they learned a service was to be Morning Prayer.
I don't know about other events, but when Queen Elizabeth came to St. John's, only parishioners were allowed to attend, and we had to sign up well in advance. So it was all just us Episcopalians/Anglicans.
I wonder if the Queen receives on the tongue or in the hand? I suppose there might be a worry that some crazy person would try to poison HM. I wonder if they did background checks on the rector, or even me?
Posts: 33 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Jun 2015
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betjemaniac
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# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Utrecht Catholic:
If other kings and queens e.g.the Scandinavian
Lutherans, of Denmark,Norway and Sweden and the Catholics of Belgium and Spain,receive communion during public celebrations of the Eucharist then I am wondering why does the Britsh Monarch not do the same ?
Because they're different people following different denominations in a different country; with different historical traditions and indeed present contexts that govern how they behave in every area of their life?
You may just as profitably ask why all those monarchs feel they can when the British monarch doesn't?
[ 03. July 2015, 15:12: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
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And is it true? For if it is....
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