Ship of Fools: Identifying Lay Worship Leaders

Thread: Identifying Lay Worship Leaders Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

I apologise to those for whom a Lay Worship Leader is a detestable enormity to quote an ancient Prayer Book phrase, but we are a fairly conservative anglican congregation about to train a crop of Lay Worship Leaders. And of course the make-or-break question is the vital issue: What are they going to wear? [Big Grin]

We are looking for some kind of 'badge' by which they may be identified. Albs seem like overkill, while teeshirts labelled World's Best Worship Leader are commendably cheap but somehow lack proper anglican humility. You can get lapel badges for virtually every other kind of church functionary (including some I've never heard of) but apparently not for Worship Leaders.

I guess we might be looking for something modest worn in lapel or on a cord, but we are open to ideas. Anybody got any suggestions please?

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

My immediate response is that the correct answer is black cassock and surplice but I gather that's not going to be helpful to your query.

One possibility might be a wooden or ceramic pectoral cross suspended on a coloured cord around their neck. This would obviate the problem of uniform Tshirts (perhaps a bit too informal) or golf shirts (the latter of which has class signifiers, and is not ideal).

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

By Worship Leader, do you mean someone who leads non-Eucharistic services, the sort of thing that a Lay Reader does in England, and a Church Warden can do in a vacancy? Or do you mean a person who leads a praise band?

If the former, and they aren't actually licensed by the diocese, it would be misrepresentation to put them in cassock, surplice and blue scarf.

Black cassock and surplice, with no scarf might well be the answer. Choirs often wear that. They could wear a white cravat as well.

A possible alternative might be civvies + some sort of badge on a coloured linen strip round the neck, like the long service awards given out by some choirs.

I'd have thought that if there are people supplying lapel badges, for a small extra charge they would give you ones made to your own design. Alternatively, if they are expected to wear suits, they could have special ties.

Another possibility might be sports sweaters with a suitable church logo on them. There are organisations that provide these in England e.g. for clubs, primary schools. Do the equivalent exist in France?

Posted by Chapelhead (# 21) on :

As Enoch says, it depends on what you mean by 'worship leader' as to whether they should wear one of these or one of these or one of these.

As for actual dress, I suspect that a polyester cassock-alb in oatmeal would be most appropriate.

[Smile]

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

[Killing me]

Ian J.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Where they were part of an accredited Local Ministry Team, lay team members who officiated at worship in places I knew of, were free to either wear cassock-albs or their own ordinary Sunday clothes. The congregations involved were equally happy with both. Outside of the church building, eg, with lay chaplains, lapel badges were the thing.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
As Enoch says, it depends on what you mean by 'worship leader' as to whether they should wear one of these or one of these or one of these.

As for actual dress, I suspect that a polyester cassock-alb in oatmeal would be most appropriate.

Hmm, do I detect a
point of view lurking here......?

Posted by Chapelhead (# 21) on :

Oh, I'm just a cynic.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
I apologise to those for whom a Lay Worship Leader is a detestable enormity to quote an ancient Prayer Book phrase, but we are a fairly conservative anglican congregation about to train a crop of Lay Worship Leaders.

Maybe my ecclesial context is too far away for me to be able to say anything useful, but I have some questions before I can say anything. What are these people doing? And what do other people who do these kind of things wear? Unless no-one does these kind of things right now.

quote:

Albs seem like overkill,

I don't really see why it's ever overkill for a baptized person to wear an alb (unless they're a competitive swimmer or something). Maybe if you answer the above questions, I might understand why you do.

[ 25. October 2015, 23:12: Message edited by: Adam. ]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Maybe I missed the point somewhere along the line, but ISTM that a 'lay minister', like a bishop, priest or deacon, is identified by DOING his/her appointed office.
Is it necessary to identify them at other times? Perhaps so, but it seems not very important.

Many of us through the years (and I include myself here) have gotten far too wrapped up in vesture rather than ministry.

'By their works ye shall know them' is perhaps apropos here.

Just my opinion, of course.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

Cassock-albs seem like the simple solution to me. That was the practice for when lay people led the Ministry of the Word when I was growing up. Of course if your priests are wearing combats and a leather jacket that might not quite work for you. If I'm leading worship here I wear my normal clothes - chinos and a woolly jumper - but that's because the minister doesn't robe either.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

[Mad]

Cassock-albs are not the solution to anything! [Mad]

(unless the problem in hand is is 'how can we make the baby Jesus cry?')
Proper apparelled albs, certainly, where appropriate. But in this case, if you want robes/ vestments, I'd say cassock and surplice. Otherwise whatever is acceptable churchgoing mufti, maybe with a badge or as suggested pectoral cross, or some such thing.

[ 27. October 2015, 19:58: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :

I guess I don't get out much, but I honestly don't understand the function of lay worship leaders in an Anglican church.

If their function will be leading daily morning prayer and/or evening prayer (aside from that, I don't know what they would do), I'd vote for cassock only as that's what I've seen in my limited experience.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I guess I don't get out much, but I honestly don't understand the function of lay worship leaders in an Anglican church.

I wish the Ship had a like button.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I guess I don't get out much, but I honestly don't understand the function of lay worship leaders in an Anglican church.

If their function will be leading daily morning prayer and/or evening prayer (aside from that, I don't know what they would do), I'd vote for cassock only as that's what I've seen in my limited experience.

When I was growing up lay ministers sometimes led the Ministry of the Word to allow the priest to stay and talk to the congregation from the first service in the adjoining parish in the benefice without constantly clock watching and making the 20 minute dash from the end of one service to the start of the other. There is also a need for lay leaders in areas where priests are few and far between. The diocese of Argyll and the Isles has 5 stipendiary priests, including the dean, spread among 32 churches across a large area of rugged terrain and inhabited islands. Not every church is in range of a communion service every Sunday. Lay led worship is therefore an essential part of the life of some local congregations.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Exactly. The same is true in many denominations (and the Methodists in Britain have never had "one minister, one church"). It does cause issues where the Sacraments are concerned - does the Minister rush around doing the holy stuff or do you authorise Lay Presidents or Communion by Extension (and if so, how)? The URC's Mission Council (= General Synod) will be discussing this very thing next month.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

Lots of good points to think about here - thank you everybody for responding.

To pick up one point - when I took on a multi-church parish I resolutely refused to run a system where someone else started a service in the expectation I would arrive in the middle. My refusal to do this led to the introduction of Worship Leaders so that each church in its distinctive community had weekly worship at a fixed and sensible time. In two cases this led to the reintroduction of weekly worship in one parish where it had lapsed.

The system was good for the churches, but I found it hard on me as priest never to be in the same place two Sundays running.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Presumably, though, you conducted all the Eucharistic services?

Posted by mettabhavana (# 16217) on :

quote:
(and the Methodists in Britain have never had "one minister, one church")

except in certain one-church circuits (I call them "royal peculiars") where there may even be more than one stipendiary minister.

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Presumably, though, you conducted all the Eucharistic services?

Yes - plus a Methodist colleague in the one shared church.

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