Ship of Fools: Incoming Missals

Thread: Incoming Missals Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

We have inherited a collection of liturgical texts. The family professional market researcher has scoped the market, and we will in time dispose of them to various dealers, who will put them on their shelves/online inventories.

What I am idly curious about is the reaction of such as might be interested in such texts. How thrilled/bored would you be to, for example, encounter -

Missel des Saintes Femmes de France - avec illustration par Elisabeth Sonrel. Tours. Maison A Mame et Fils, 1900. Watered satin endpapers and its own satin lined box.

The Psalter in English Verse by John Keble. London. Blackie & Sons, 1906. Soft leather binding with a bit of Art Nouveau gold tooling.

Prayers in use at Cuddesdon College. Parker & Co. 4th ed. 1882.

A miniature BCP, undated, but possibly bound in ivory with a metal clasp.

Does anyone acquire this sort of thing for any practical use, or is it all for the quaint texts and the pretty pictures and the fancy bindings?

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

Clergy have libraries of such things for reference and personal devotion.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

The odd inscription indicate many of these came from personal collections. You wonder what became of the Welsh ordinand who wrote his name on the title page in 1912.

Our researches indicate they have some (if not a great deal) of resale value. More, certainly, than the other large segment of eng lit critics of the early to mid 20th C. F R Leavis is an absolute drug on the market.

But if you wanted a 'working' library, would you buy new? Or would you feel some kind of mana attached to one belonging to some priestly predecessor?

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

When I had a 'proper job', I amassed a fair library of relevant (engineering) text books. In my area old texts were often better than new - the content in newer volumes tended to either have been watered down to nothing or developed into such esoteric presentations (by authors with a contribution to establish?) as to be needlessly tough for undergrads.

I wonder if ecclesiastical books are at all the same. I like old books - not least they smell better than the internet.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

In my experience at various churches, many people have old Bibles, Prayer Books, etc. (especially if there's been a death in the family). Throwing them away doesn't seem right, so they decide "I know! let's give them to the church." So then the churches have to figure out what to do with them...

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Our researches indicate they have some (if not a great deal) of resale value. More, certainly, than the other large segment of eng lit critics of the early to mid 20th C. F R Leavis is an absolute drug on the market.

But if you wanted a 'working' library, would you buy new? Or would you feel some kind of mana attached to one belonging to some priestly predecessor?

The Ogre of Downing College! Are we the only 2 remaining alive who remember his name? When I did English in my Arts degree over a half century ago, the Department was split in 2 by debates about him.

About the real topic - donation to a theological college? Cathedral library? A religious community? It may well be that the cost of finding a buyer would outweigh any money received.

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

There is a whole research area around the missals of years gone by. A combination between history and theology. It is so big you can buy facsimile copies of many historical missals. So yes they have resale value and their modern equivalents will not do instead.

Jengie

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:

About the real topic - donation to a theological college? Cathedral library? A religious community? It may well be that the cost of finding a buyer would outweigh any money received.

Not entirely so. You need to research their requirements, and provide photographic evidence of condition (more significant apparently than bibliographic minutiae). Some will bulk buy because they have a global operation, others will take dross provided it comes with a few sweeteners.

Consensus going rate for a nice missal seems to be about £30. If you have 5,000 of them, then.... (Even if only a fraction realise the top whack, you have, besides the money, the virtuous glow of having released the books to those who can give them a loving home).

<tangent> I did once hear Leavis speak - but could distinguish little of what he said as his diction was poor. Except at one point he raised his head - a tad reptilian above the lurid mauve of a 1960s shirt - and said in a sneering cackle 'I seldom laugh...' I could well believe it. </tangent>

Posted by Bibaculus (# 18528) on :

I suppose it depends what you consider a 'practical use'. I like to have old liturgical works, I will look at them and make use of them from time to time. I find it interesting to see how things have changed. Many such works are not in print and not easily found. Can you buy, say, the (Knott) English Missal new?

Posted by Peter Owen (# 134) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
Can you buy, say, the (Knott) English Missal new?

Is this reprint of the 1958 edition what you are looking for?

The English Missal

Posted by Bibaculus (# 18528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Owen:

quote:
Originally posted by Bibaculus:
Can you buy, say, the (Knott) English Missal new?
Is this reprint of the 1958 edition what you are looking for?

The English Missal

The question was rhetorical, but the link fascinating. Well done Canterbury Press.

Not only can one get from them, new, the English Missal, but also such joys as the English Office and Ritual.

And this is an answer to the OP. I would buy those books if I could justify the expenditure. Maybe I will at some point. They would be more works of reference than something to use liturgically. And on the other point, I would, for reasons I cannot quite articulate, rather have them second hand than new. Somehow there is something more 'real' about the original. I know that makes no sense, and maybe is rather silly, but there we are.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

There seems to be a category of the mini missal. We turned up a whole boxful of tiny ones. I suppose they could be designed for travelling. But the fact that some are quite ornate - in one case with a carved ivory inset - makes me think they are more like trinkets or objets de vertu.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
F R Leavis is an absolute drug on the market.

The Ogre of Downing College! Are we the only 2 remaining alive who remember his name?

"Milton’s dislodgement in the past decade after his two centuries of predominance was effected with remarkably little fuss. The irresistible argument was, of course, Mr Eliot’s creative achievement; it gave his few critical asides – potent, it is true, by context - their finality and made it unnecessary to elaborate a case."

Swinburne, too, depends for his effects upon a suspension, in the reader, of the critical intelligence."

F R Leavis Revaluation 1936. What an arrogant plonker, even if Swinburne was also. I've only just got round to appreciating the poetry (though not the dodgy theology) of Paradise Lost as a result.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

3 of us then! The Leavisite argument in Sydney was lead by Maggie and Jock Tomlinson, who had transferred from Melbourne in '62. I have no idea if they are still alive. The novelist Howard Jacobson arrived a few years later, after I had finished Arts. He had studied under Leavis, but seemed to alter his line.

Punch once described the Leavisites as insignificant new graduates making Significant Findings.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
The odd inscription indicate many of these came from personal collections. You wonder what became of the Welsh ordinand who wrote his name on the title page in 1912.

Crockfords could of course be your friend. Alternatively you could watch paint dry.

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