Ship of Fools: Non-PSA Worship songs for dummies

Thread: Non-PSA Worship songs for dummies Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by *Leon* (# 3377) on :

The church I'm currently going to has anglo-catholic ceremony, liberal preaching and a worship group that mostly plays hillsong stuff. I'm probably in a minority here, but I think this is a completely reasonable way of running a church; I don't agree with hillsong theology at all, but I think that a church that can truly be a broad church within one congregation is utterly wonderful.

However, due to an incident involving musical differences resulting in most of the worship group leaving, musicians who don't have any experience of church 'worship music' are getting dragged into the worship group. Including me. And if I'm going to be in the worship group, I feel I ought to be suggesting some songs I agree with. But my church background is the sort of places which grumbled when they had to change from The English Hymnal to the New English Hymnal.

So... can anyone point me to resources to help me discover such songs? Which musicians/churches should I be listening to? Any great songs I really should know? Where do I start?

For political reasons I don't feel able to rock the boat at all musically, so the ideal is worship songs that are like hillsong material in every respect except the words. I'm assuming that since Hillsong is particularly criticised for its theology there must be a corpus of musically similar worship songs with theology that's more evangelical than my own position but doesn't always involve very extreme statements of PSA.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

There's always Graham Kendrick.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

If I've read that right, you're after something that, musically, would be most naturally at home in a charismatic evangelical church, but which theologically steers clear of atonement debates. So no references sacrifice, to Jesus giving his life for sins, to blood or anything like that. Is that right?

I can't guarantee all of the following suggestions will have atonement expunged from them, but I expect you'll be able to find some songs that fit the bill. I would try:

They won't be to everyone's taste, but I hope that's a fair starting point for you.

Posted by *Leon* (# 3377) on :

Sipech: Wonderful. Thanks,

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

A very different idiom which you might wish to think about is Wild Goose (Iona).

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

I too feel much the same about EH/NEH and share a similar suspicion of many songs from the con-evo stable. However I regularly worship with a congregation which is liturgically low, theologically liberal, and very short of resources. The 'worship group' consists very often of one man and a viola, sometimes assisted by a guitarist.

What we find works, are many well-known traditional hymns, many of the John Bell/Wild Goose songs which often have folk-song tunes, and a judicious selection of Graham Kendrick and others. Not all of these are overtly evangelical, and only one or two of them would I rate unsingable (for theological rather than musical reasons).

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Do you feel vineyard songs are sufficiently similar, Leon ? I know lots of vineyard songs and I would say not many are about atonement.

I don't know many Hillsong songs, though the two that immediately spring to mind My Jesus My Saviour, and The Power of Your Love aren't about PSA either.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Garth Hewitt (remember him?) produced a book of stuff about 25 years ago that never took off. I quite liked it, very PSA free.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

You may find Song Select a helpful resource for digging around. weareworship.com is the online presence of Integrity Music. It may be worth exploring, and if you sign up offers a free song of the week, and IIRC a free hymn of the month.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

I go to a church (and play in bands) that selectively use Hillsongs material. They also dip into a huge range of other things, including traditional hymns, but sticking with the "Hillsongs-ish" modern vibe it might be worth checking out:

Ben Cantelon
Tim Hughes
Chris Tomlin
Jesus Culture
Rend Collective (a bit more hoedown, but often used in these contexts)
Stuart Townend
Keith Getty
City Harmonic (I think they're more performance than congregational, personally, but mileage varies)
Brenton Brown
Brian Johnson/Jeremy Riddle (Bethel - more iffy theology, but some good tunes that don't require the iffy theology)

A lot of those are almost certainly comfortable with PSA but PSA is by no means a feature in every single song. As with all things, there's a wheat/chaff exercise to go through and there will be lots you hate, but probably some you can use too.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

*Leon*, just for information, what hymn/song book(s) does your church use at present?

Our Place - fairly trad A-C but with a smattering of evos in our now (alas) very small congregation* - uses Mayhew's oft-maligned Complete Anglican Hymns Old and New (known to us as CAHON). It gives a wide choice of classic hymns, along with a fair number of more modern stuff (Bell/Kendrick/Taize et al), and we find it pretty useful.

(*small, not because of the choice of music, but because of the laziness and incompetence of our so-called parish priest - a fine subject for a Hell thread, I'm afraid)

Ian J.

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

I'm just curious: what is PSA? Here in the US it usually stands for Public Service Announcement.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
I'm just curious: what is PSA? Here in the US it usually stands for Public Service Announcement.

Or prostate-specific antigen.

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

Penal substitutionary atonement

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Sipech wrote:

quote:
So no references sacrifice, to Jesus giving his life for sins, to blood or anything like that. Is that right?

Blimey! That would exclude loads of stuff way beyond con-evo. It's surely the con-evo take on these things that is problematic for Leon.

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Sipech wrote:
quote:
So no references sacrifice, to Jesus giving his life for sins, to blood or anything like that. Is that right?
Blimey! That would exclude loads of stuff way beyond con-evo. It's surely the con-evo take on these things that is problematic for Leon.

Yes, I assume it's the penal substitution theory of the atonement that is problematic, not the atonement per se.

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
Penal substitutionary atonement

Thanks. And as a middle-aged male I'm also familiar with the one Oblatus mentioned.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Are you worried about what the belief of the author likely is, or just what the song itself says ?

For example I had in mind the song 'Jesus Christ, I think upon your sacrifice' by Matt Redman. He is certainly an evangelical but there's nothing about penal substitution in that song.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

I think most charismatic evo songsmiths are well aware of the controversial nature of PSA these days, such that even Stuart Townend, of whom, it was once said by a shipmate here, couldn't write a birthday song for his granny without bringing PSA into it, now tend to steer clear.

So newer is probably better than older. If you dig far enough down into even Kendrick's back catalogue, you can find songs that major on PSA, songs that I'm sure he would never write today.

I would agree that most Vineyard songs are probably safe bets, if that sort of thing is your musical bag - I love them, but they have been mercilessly parodied as "Jesus is my boyfriend". I'm afraid Bethel doesn't do it for me, but there is no doubt that many of their songs are very popular. Hillsong's "Man of Sorrows" (the one with the intro that's almost identical to "Hold Back The River") is the only recent song with a strong PSA message that I can recall.

Matt Redman's stuff is great, with a good and positive theology, for those who have the vocal range to sing it, and there are signs that since his time in America, he has toned down the whole "verse too low, chorus too high" thing.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

I'm not familiar with Hillsong or most of the other sources mentioned. But I grew up in a fund. church, where we had both a regular hymnal and a book of praise songs. And I gave up PSA a long time ago.

So a few ideas:

--"Praise Ye The Lord, The Almighty, The King Of Creation" (Cyberhymnal) was one of my fave songs in the praise book. I skimmed through the lyrics at the link. There are some new-to-me verses, but I didn't see anything that set me off. [Biased]

However,...it's also the kind of song that talks about God guiding, being merciful, and comforting. Sometimes, those sentiments can be wonderful. But, if you're going through bad times, they can be exactly what you *don't* need to hear--because it doesn't seem to happen.

So YMMV.

--You might check out songs from the Taize community. IIRC, there are some that don't focus on atonement.

--Try songbooks for youth groups. There'll be some PSA, but there should also be some fun songs.

--You might see if you can find Unitarian-Universalist songs. They don't believe in atonement.

All I can think of, right now.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

Ah, yes, can't believe I forgot Matt Redman. He's not as bad for stupid ranges as Tim Hughes, but a lot of the recorded/written keys are a bit high (in my experience). Nothing wrong with dropping all the Bb ones to A or G as an act of mercy [Biased]

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

If singability is an issue, then Stuart Townend and Robin Mark are both excellent tunesmiths who are careful to write so that untrained voices, both male and female, can easily manage the range.

Posted by *Leon* (# 3377) on :

Thank you very much for all the stuff here - I've certainly got enough to keep me busy for a bit. It seems Matt Redman is a key person I need to be listening to.

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