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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Are you interested in current treatment or also historical treatment? Some of the churches have changed considerably in recent years.

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Here is Sydney - the Roman Catholic and Anglican Dioceses are both heavy-handed anti-gay: the Cardinal has refused communion to people wearing a rainbow sash or badge; the Anglicans believe that homosexuality is a choice.

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Reading the Oblivionated thread about HTB's church plant in Brighton (you know your insomnia is bad when you're going through Oblivion ) got me wondering - how have various groups of churches dealt with having a gay scene on their doorstep, whether affirming, condemning, whatever? I used to live in Eastbourne for several years but I was not out to my church and also the churches in Eastbourne are not as diverse as in Brighton - Eastbourne (for Anglicans at least) is almost entirely conservative evangelical in terms of churchmanship - so I can't talk from experience about how the Brighton churches interacted with the gay scene. I have heard positive things about the AffCath churches being very welcoming, but I would especially like to know how the NFI/HTB churches deal with it. Do they ignore the gay scene or actively oppose it?

I'm guessing TEC have a more uniform approach to the whole thing!

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
But the effort in purposely not thinking it through for the ten seconds it takes to realise it's utter bullshit must be immense!

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Here is Sydney - the Roman Catholic and Anglican Dioceses are both heavy-handed anti-gay: the Cardinal has refused communion to people wearing a rainbow sash or badge; the Anglicans believe that homosexuality is a choice.

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How anyone can believe this obviously utter shite I do not understand. I mean, I never chose to be straight; I just, am. I could no more choose to be gay than I could choose to have red hair.

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Originally posted by Hawk:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Here is Sydney - the Roman Catholic and Anglican Dioceses are both heavy-handed anti-gay: the Cardinal has refused communion to people wearing a rainbow sash or badge; the Anglicans believe that homosexuality is a choice.

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How anyone can believe this obviously utter shite I do not understand. I mean, I never chose to be straight; I just, am. I could no more choose to be gay than I could choose to have red hair.

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No one chooses to be. But everyone has a choice to do or not do something. I assume these people being denied communion weren't born wearing a rainbow sash?

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Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Here is Sydney - the Roman Catholic and Anglican Dioceses are both heavy-handed anti-gay: the Cardinal has refused communion to people wearing a rainbow sash or badge; the Anglicans believe that homosexuality is a choice rather than a genetic disposition.

However, even with this said, I can advise that there are a number of Anglican parishes and communities (I can only speak with confidence about the Anglican scene) throughout the city who are openly and warmly accepting of ALL people, and who go out of their way to be supportive of GLBT worshippers and seekers, many of whom have been deeply hurt by the official stances and actions of their denominations, etc.

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So odd considering that RC organisations like Pax Christi frequently use rainbow motifs as a symbol of peace - I have one of their rainbow badges and it has nothing to do with LGBTQ issues.

As for the Anglicans, well - not sure I would expect anything else from Sydney. My church in Eastbourne was a big fan of Matthias Media

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Originally posted by Albertus:
I do think that for some people the form in which their sexuality is manifested in their way of life is a matter of choice, albeit one structured and constrained by societal norms.
Where I disagree with the church authorities in Sydney is that I don't think there's anything wrong with this.

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
What's a rainbow sash and who wears them? Is it like a proper sash right across the body?

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
Oh I see. Why on earth would someone wear that to Church?

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
Oh I see. Why on earth would someone wear that to Church?

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Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
IME most Anglo-Catholic congregations and clergy in both TEC and the CofE are quite gay friendly and gay populated. This is perhaps apt to be partly an artifact of the urban location of most such parishes in combination with the urban concentration of gay communities. London, NYC, Philadelphia, and Chicago would all be good cases in point.

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Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Well, AffCath parishes clearly are Anglo-Catholic to anyone viewing things objectively. I have studiously avoided FiF places apart from special events like their May Festival or Patronal.

Of course, in the USA, virtually all Anglo-Catholic parishes are essentially AffCath in orientation, and the policy of the Church nationally is inclusive and generally gay-friendly. Those who don't like this have pretty much walked out.

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I misread 'patronal' as 'paranormal' and thought you must move in some exotic circles!

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Not being a church goer I don't track this closely. Seattle has a large community. In recent years, the Vatican has replaced priests in position of responsibility who were trying to welcome Gay and Lesbians Catholics.

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Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
For all the nearly naked bodies and gyrations shown in gay pride parades on TV, the truth is that a very large number of the entries are religious organizations. Most of the mainline Protestant denominations and liberal religious bodies (Reform and Conservative Jews, Unitarians, Buddhists, etc.) have quasi-official groups marching in the parade, often with clergy in collars and the local bishop or district president in tow. Gay members of less accepting groups like Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, conservative evangelicals, Muslims, JWs, etc., would march with their support groups like Dignity (Catholic), Axios (E. Orthodox), Affirmation (Mormon), etc., sans any official presence. Everyone considers those parades to be the most visible way to help gay people who have left organized religion get plugged back in, or reach out to new members.

In the cities I've lived in, many religious organizations also set up colourful booths at gay pride festivals with literature, pictures, etc. staffed by volunteers that would give info on the state of the gay community in their respective denomination, listen to stories by passerby and help guide people to more friendlier places of worship.

It seems to do some good. There are many people who have spiritual needs that left their churches as young adults, who aren't aware of how much things have changed since then and may give it a second try. We'd always get a few new faces after a parade event at church. A few have even become regulars.

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I have never seen that many religious groups at a British pride event. The MCC, sure, and maybe Reform Jews, but that's about it. Maybe LGBT+ people in the US are more inclined to be religious?

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Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I have never seen that many religious groups at a British pride event. The MCC, sure, and maybe Reform Jews, but that's about it. Maybe LGBT+ people in the US are more inclined to be religious?

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It's surprising that groups such as the Quakers and Unitarians don't have more of a presence. I wonder why that is. Obviously, British people, whether gay or straight, are less likely to be religious than Americans, but you'd think that openly liberal religious groups such as these would see Gay Pride as an opportunity for low-key, cheerful evangelism.

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Willing to bet that there are some conservative parts of Canada, but seriously Canada, why so great?

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
...I have never seen that many religious groups at a British pride event. The MCC, sure,...

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Originally posted by Bostonman:
Personally, I feel the need to qualify statements about the fact that I'm a Christian with "but the kind with gay marriage" when discussing it with relative strangers. It goes a long way, here.

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Originally posted by leo:


Re FIF, I know one Fif which wouldn't survive without its gay men in the choir, serving team etc.

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Only one?

No, seriously, although I've never had a FiF church as my regular place of worship, I've known a few. They are, almost without exception very gay. I also know at least one FiF church that blesses same-sex unions, with the full knowledge of both the Diocesan Bishop and the FiF hierarchy.

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Originally posted by S. Bacchus:

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Originally posted by leo:


Re FIF, I know one Fif which wouldn't survive without its gay men in the choir, serving team etc.

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Only one?

No, seriously, although I've never had a FiF church as my regular place of worship, I've known a few. They are, almost without exception very gay. I also know at least one FiF church that blesses same-sex unions, with the full knowledge of both the Diocesan Bishop and the FiF hierarchy.

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Originally posted by Soror Magna:
I had to do a couple of errands downtown today, at exactly the time the Pride Parade started. Downtown was very quiet, even though it is a sunny Sunday on a holiday weekend, and Costco was deserted with no lines at the cashiers. Why? The annual Pride Parade.

Our regional population is about 2.5 million people. Half a million of them are expected at the Pride Parade.

Even allowing for tourists, it's clear we don't just have a large LGBQTTI community, we also have a vast and diverse community of allies. So homophobic churches aren't just pissing off gay people, they're also pissing off a far greater number of straight people.

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