Ship of Fools: Binary Judgement?

Thread: Binary Judgement? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Every now and then I come across someone's beliefs, pesented as mainline and accepted theology, which seem to me to be from an entirely different parallel universe that I do not inhabit. (This is not unconnected to my finding myself in the Quakers.)

Today, it was on the BBC Radio 4's programme "Beyond Belief". The Programme It was about church's response to transgender people.

During it, and I listened twice to try to sort out the concept, it appeared to be postulated that, because of the Genesis account of the creation of humanity, when we come before the judgement throne, as each of us will, we will be judged on criteria including our chromosomal make-up. That in some way, whether we are male or female will be included in the evidence.

It seemed to be suggested, implicitly (possibly because one of the speakers was a transgender woman priest), that people who do not represent their birth gender will have failed more than those who have stuck with whatever stereotype they suppose is expected of them, to be complementary to the other sex.

(I'm cis, het, female, and I have failed. I wear trousers more than skirts. I do DIY. I do not have a male as my head. I do not hunger for shoes, handbags and I do not make cookies or cupcakes.)

Surely this sort of idea about what we are to be judged on has no proper founding in anything sensible.

[ 23. June 2014, 20:11: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
pesented as mainline and accepted theology, .... it appeared to be postulated that, because of the Genesis account of the creation of humanity, when we come before the judgement throne, as each of us will, we will be judged on criteria including our chromosomal make-up. That in some way, whether we are male or female will be included in the evidence.

I'll admit to not having had time to listen to the programme. But, if what appeared to be postulated is what was actually said then it's something I have never come across before. It may have been presented as mainline and accepted theology, but seems to be way outside anything I would recognise as mainline and accepted.

I'm willing to accept that we will be judged on the basis of what we have been given and how we have used that, for good or ill. I'm also willing to accept that our gender and sexuality is part of the package of who we are and what we have been gifted with. I also know God will be just and fair and reasonable, and I very much doubt he'll judge us according to how well we conform to some arbitrary gender roles defined by subsets of human societies.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

There certainly are people out there who blindly believe that the world is neatly divided into males and females and that any crossing of the boundaries is somehow wrong.

But it's high school level science. Anything more advanced than that should, at the very least, introduce you to the information that there are people walking around looking female, born looking female, who grew up with a female sense of identity, who have a Y chromosome. Androgen insensitivity is a not-uncommon and well-recognised condition that has that result: female body, with a male chromosomal makeup.

Such a piece of evidence has a tendency to make the head of a binary judgementalist explode. There's no 'wrong choices' involved for them to criticise. This is incontrovertibly how people are born.

[ 24. June 2014, 13:41: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

That programme was very good. Few religious programmes have ever dared to tackle this subject and it is clear that evangelicals like the one on the programme are woefully ignorant of modern science. Despite saying that he didn't want to dismiss people, his whole theology dismisses people - which is probably why he kept repeating that he didn't want to dismiss people.

The churches cannot cope with homosexuality, which is 'so yesterday'.

I am having my thinking stretched, here on The Ship and in my church, by 'binary' trans etc. and welcome the challenge.

Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on :

Wouldn't it be good if people stopped deciding for God how everyone will be judged, and got on with doing our best to be Christ-like!

If we believe that Jesus loves all people for who we are, doesn't it follow that we should try to do the same?

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

[Confused]

I thought we were going to be divided into sheep and goats...

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I notice the transgender participant talks in terms of "divergent" gender identity and "outside of the normal understood... naturalistic" pattern.

I could go a long way with that vocabulary, but I'm not sure that would satisfy everybody...

Posted by Persephone Hazard (# 4648) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Anything more advanced than that should, at the very least, introduce you to the information that there are people walking around looking female, born looking female, who grew up with a female sense of identity, who have a Y chromosome. Androgen insensitivity is a not-uncommon and well-recognised condition that has that result: female body, with a male chromosomal makeup.

And, hell, I've never had my chromosomes tested. How would you even know?

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