Ship of Fools: Catholic Intercommunion for Lutheran Spouses

Thread: Catholic Intercommunion for Lutheran Spouses Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by sonata3 (# 13653) on :

Whispers in the Loggia gives an extended summary of Pope Francis' recent comments at a Lutheran parish in Rome; in addition to some provocative comments to a question from a Lutheran spouse about intercommunion, he brought to the Lutherans a gift of paten and chalice with papal insignia - just as he brought to American archbishops on his recent trip to America.
http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/

Three questions for discussion: since the Pope usually asks for questions at a forum such as this to be submitted in advance, can we assume that these are not off-the-cuff remarks (Cardinal Kasper was in attendance)? Second, do these comments in any way tip the Pope's hand as to how he will handle two issues from the recent synod: communion for divorced and remarried Catholics, and communion for Anglican spouses of Catholics (the latter was mentioned in the synod's final document)? And finally, is there any real chance of intercommunion between Catholics and Anglicans/Lutherans in 1517, the 500th anniversary of the Reformation?

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

A helpful discussion is going on at Pray Tell right now. The Pope's remarks clearly seem to be off-the-cuff, personal and full of questions. So, we should be wary of reading them like fully considered universal answers.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

There's three very interesting things about that report. First, and second are the two mistranslations marked with asterisks. Both appear to be fairly serious misrepresentations - I hesitate to say censorships - of what the Holy Father appears actually to have said.

The third is his own statement (if that isn't a mistranslation as well)l "I would never dare to give permission to do this, because it’s not my competence.". To a non-Catholic, that is a revolutionarily unpapal thing to say. If the next sentence isn't also a mistranslation, "One baptism, one Lord, one faith. Talk to the Lord and go forward.", that context changes the possible meaning from something that John Paul II could have said to something truly remarkable. It goes against every Proddy prejudice over the last four and a half centuries.

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

After due consideration, we have concluded that as intercommunion belongs in Dead Horses, where a fuller discussion can take place, this thread will be moving there.

John Holding
Ecclesiantics Host

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

It's not exactly a "yes" or a "no" is it? It could be taken either way especially when baptism is defined in narrow or broad terms

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

If accuracy of translation is an issue, it appears that the full text of the Q & A session can be found at the Vatican website, albeit currently you can only get it in German or Italian.

Neither of which is much help to me, although I know a smattering of German. Still, I suspect if we wait patiently for a bit, an English version will appear.

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

In his reply the pope aska if the Lord's Supper (together) is the end/aim of our journey together or is it our strengthening/viaticum on the way ?
The pope says :
'We believe that the Lord is present. He is present. You believe that the Lord is present.
What is the difference then ? Well, there are explanations and interpretations. Life is greater than these. I do not dare to give you permission (to go to communion) as it is not within my competence. Speak both of you with the Lord and move forward both of you (in your married life and relationship ? or towards the table of the Lord ?)

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

Now the link I gave above has an English translation available (we had to wait for the Portuguese translation first--really, it is an exercise in humility. Portuguese came first?!?!??!).

Having read the Pope's response, I've got to say that he was floundering. And I say that with due respect.

What is of more interest to me is the response he gave to little Julius, when the Pope explains that he'd rather be just a pastor, a parish priest. I think that is why I like and respect him so much.

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :

He is answering a question from a Lutheran, not a Catholic. Even if the Pope believes (as I'm sure he does) that all Christians should be reconciled to his branch of the Church before taking communion in accordance with its doctrines, the question he's addressing is what should someone do who doesn't believe that. To reiterate the Catholic discipline as if it automatically applied to a Lutheran conscience would have been wrong. I don't think the Pope gave a very clear or helpful answer to the question raised*, but did show considerable wisdom in recognising that a non-Catholic won't make decisions like this on Catholic principles, as well as fidelity to his own tradition in acknowledging both our differences in doctrine and our unity in baptism.

(*I'm not sure there is one.)

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Now the link I gave above has an English translation available (we had to wait for the Portuguese translation first--really, it is an exercise in humility. Portuguese came first?!?!??!).

Portuguese is a growing global language. Moreover, the country with the largest number of RCs in 2010 was in fact Brazil. Of the ten countries with the largest RC communities in 2010 it would appear that the Phillipines and the USA were the only ones where English is an official language. Perhaps the majority of the world's RC's don't even speak English.

I'm sure there was no attempt to deliberately snub English speakers, though.

Posted by sonata3 (# 13653) on :

Further development:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/lutherans-receive-communion-at-vatican-after-meeting-with-pope-report

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