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» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Purgatory: What Is A Christian? (Page 4)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: What Is A Christian?
strathclydezero

# 180

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BigAL - sorry to say I'm with Freddy on that one.

--------------------
All religions will pass, but this will remain:
simply sitting in a chair and looking in the distance.
V V Rozanov

Posts: 3276 | From: The Near East | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Manx Taffy
Shipmate
# 301

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quote:
Originally posted by strathclydezero:
BigAL - sorry to say I'm with Freddy on that one.

Me too. Big Al your comments might make more sense if I understood what 'to be saved' means to you?


Posts: 397 | From: Isle of Man | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

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quote:
Originally posted by BigAL:
Only people who are saved are Christians....Why would people want to be Christians if they don't feel they want or need to be saved.

The point is that to be saved you need to love God and love your neighbor, as Jesus commanded.

Many people do this without ever even having heard of Jesus.

Still, doing as Jesus said is the only way to salvation. He is the way, the truth and the life. If you hear His sayings and do them you will be like a wise man. These sayings teach the way of salvation more clearly and truly than any other on earth. There is, in fact, only one way of salvation, which is the way that Jesus taught: love God and love your neighbor.

This doesn't mean that non-Christians aren't saved. It means that those who fail to do as Jesus taught are not saved. Non-Christians who live as Jesus taught are in unity with true Christians, whether they have ever heard of Jesus or not.

Everyone needs to be saved from the power of evil. Becoming a Christian is learning the right path, which Jesus taught, and following it. This is why we should become Christians.

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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg


Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15

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quote:
Originally posted by BigAL:
Why are people making such a simple and easy thing so complicated.

Because the last 2,000 years have shown that this is not a simple and easy thing.

The early church started off by saying that anyone who believed in their heart and confessed with their lips that Jesus was Lord would be saved - yet Christian history has shown that many people who did both were not exactly paragons of the Christian life - by their fruit one could reasonably conclude that they weren't Christians at all.

The point has to be made that there is a difference between formally identifying oneself with the word "Christian" - for example, is as used by the far right organisaation "Christian Identity" - and the actuality of living up to that identifier. Calling yourself Christian doesn't make you one. And this is particularly true in the light of several centuries of "Christian(ised)" culture, which has the Christian story in its consciousness and therefore assumes it is Christian.

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt


Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Russ
Old salt
# 120

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Attempting to address the original question:

Seems to me that if a hypothetical non-believing Robinson Crusoe on a desert island were to find a Bible washed up on the beach one day, and reading it, decide that for the sake of being more like Jesus he would be more forgiving to Man Friday, then I'd be happy to include said Crusoe as a Christian - a follower of Christ. At least until the next book washed up on the shore...

My previous doubt related to a different question, which might be phrased as "who should the worldwide community of Christians recognize as being Christian". In which case willingness to recognize other Christians as Christians might in principle be considered a requirement (if it could be implemented in a way that didn't result in circular reasoning).

Abo - thanks for the reassurance.

Carmel - sorry; I had no intention of trying to make you justify the Catholic position on anything and everything, still less of attacking your beliefs. I suppose I'm interested in the relationship between the beliefs of Catholics (what they think inside their own heads) and the official doctrine of the Catholic institution - the process of belief rather than the content.

Peace be with you.

Russ

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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas


Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Campbellite

Ut unum sint
# 1202

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quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
Attempting to address the original question:
"who should the worldwide community of Christians recognize as being Christian". In which case willingness to recognize other Christians as Christians might in principle be considered a requirement (if it could be implemented in a way that didn't result in circular reasoning).

Russ


Obviously, anyone who agrees with ME!

Seriously, I tend to err on the side of being open to all who call themselves Christian, unless by their own actions or words they show themselves to be completely at odds with Scripture and Tradition. After all, we are not authorized to pass judgement on anyone.

A little heresy never hurt anyone, a LOT of heresy OTOH...

--------------------
I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?


Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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willingness to recognize other Christians as Christians might in principle be considered a requirement (if it could be implemented in a way that didn't result in circular reasoning).

Amen!


Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Big Chicken
Apprentice
# 1271

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To Believe in God is Wisdom
To Know God is Life.

As my journey through life crosses the paths of many genuine believers who's stance on some issues are quite different to mine. I become bewildered and ask my creator "Whats it all about?" He replies " It's all about knowing Me Jesus and the One who sent me. When you turned to Me I came and lived with you." (Something like that anyway) The question is not so much is a Catholic a Christian because that's to general, rather is the individual a follower of Christ and does Christ dwell with them. I cannot live without my Lord, I am nothing and without identity other than that which Christ has given me. If a man can say that, who can judge, only God who knows all things. Beware of labels, sometimes there on the wrong box.

over and out


Posts: 1 | From: Lincolnshire | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
BigAL
Shipmate
# 750

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quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
The point is that to be saved you need to love God and love your neighbor, as Jesus commanded.


yes...also Romans 10:9 ... John 3:16 ....
has some bearing.

quote:

This doesn't mean that non-Christians aren't saved. It means that those who fail to do as Jesus taught are not saved. Non-Christians who live as Jesus taught are in unity with true Christians, whether they have ever heard of Jesus or not.

There is a difference which must be addressed between being a christian and having a christian lifestyle.
There is only one way to be saved and that is through Christ (John 14:6). Works by themselves are no good (paul.. somewhere)..

We can walk the walk but unless we are saved there is no point it will not get us anywhere. So yes people can be nice people and do good things but it will not get you anywhere in the long run, praise from man in the short term but thats worth nothing once you are dead and it holds no favour with God.

Anyone who is saved is also a Christian ...
By saved I mean " will not face gods judgement at the great white throne and have their names written in the lambs book of life. They have done this by accepting Christ as Saviour(John 3:16)"

Splitting being Saved and being a Christian is sheer madness. I can see no justification for doing so.

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The Bible contains the Answer of that I am certain


Posts: 507 | From: Newcastle, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Is it possible to believe in God and follow Christ's teaching, but not believe that Christ is the only way, and be a Christian?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

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I think it depends on what you mean by "not believe that Christ is the only way."

If it means that you believe that someone could live opposite to the way that Christ taught and still be saved, the answer is no. You can't be a Christian and think that way.

But if it means that those are saved who live as Christ taught, whether they know about Christ or not, then the answer, in my book, is yes.

So I disagree with BigAl when he says:
There is a difference which must be addressed between being a christian and having a christian lifestyle.

I think the two are one and the same in essence, assuming that by lifestyle you mean a genuine and sincere life from a true love and God and of the neighbor.

The trick, however, which I think is at the root of the power of Christianity, is that you are handy-capped in acquiring this "lifestyle" unless you know God as He revealed Himself in Jesus Christ. Without knowing who God is, how can you know what true goodness is? Jesus is the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him.

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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg


Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged



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