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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Myers-Briggs
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Assistant Village Idiot
Shipmate
# 3266
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Posted
The political compass thread in heaven acquired a Myers-Briggs subplot.
For the record, the Myers-Briggs Personality Inventory is a parlor game, not a scientific tool. Why don't you ask me what my sign is instead?
[ 25. April 2003, 14:55: Message edited by: sarkycow ]
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formerly Logician
Posts: 885 | From: New Hampshire, US | Registered: Sep 2002
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Willyburger
Ship's barber
# 658
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Posted
Or maybe I could ask you about your Taylor-Johnson results. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Willy, Unix Bigot, Esq.
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Why is it that every time I go out to buy bookshelves, I come home with more books?
Posts: 835 | From: Arizona, US | Registered: Jul 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Logician, I dare you to find a single piece of psychology that can be considered as hard science - without involving samples of hundreds.
Nevertheless, I think a personality inventory can be an important part of a psychological evaluation (black magic though that may be). What's amusing is the number of times I been given a Myers-Briggs as part of a job interview.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
Most of my professinal life has been in a field where the Myers-Briggs is used as a diagnostic tool sometimes. Used as a starting point or a way to put certain things in perspective, but not, I repeat not, as a way to lump people into categories (much like astrology as Logician has already mentioned).
Using Myers-Briggs as a means for perspective is much different (and more helpful in specific cases) than the way people latch onto their type and use it as some sort of predictor of behavior. This reminds me of highly reputable work done on non-verbal communication which has now also entered into popular culture as a predictor. e.g., a person rubs his/her nose = they are lying. Sometimes the nose itches.
I am ambivalent about all this. On the one hand, I think it is beneficial for research to be accessible to the general public. On the other hand, I dislike when such research is reduced to "he's an INFP--no good to as a love interest, etc." (no offense meant toward people who have recieved the INFP result.)
And on the third hand--bet you didn't know I had one ![[Smile]](smile.gif) --I resented being given the MMPI for a job interview, and don't get me started on the Enneagram (also useful in certain cases, but highly abused).
Many of these inventories are promoted and interpreted by people with very little training, alas. I've seen the Myers-Briggs brought out at parties. Alas again.
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
I once had a love interest who was an INFP--he was a pretty good guy. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
sabine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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anglicanrascal
Shipmate
# 3412
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
I once had a love interest who was an INFP--he was a pretty good guy.
sabine
"They" generally are.
Posts: 3186 | From: Diocese of Litigalia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
What's amusing is the number of times I been given a Myers-Briggs as part of a job interview.
They might as well analyse your handwriting or read your bumps. Reading entrails - now that would be interesting.
There are some serious privacy issues in using pyschological profiling in recruiting - not least that any consent to the collection and processing of your personal data is likely to be vitiated by the fact that you had to agree to be tested in order to be considered for the job. (Except in Australia of course, where the so-called privacy law is so woolly and inexact that very few people actually understand it.)
Recruiting is an inexact science, but I wouldn't want to be a part of any organisation that placed its trust in psychological profiling as an aid to selection.
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2^8, eight bits to a byte
Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
When I saw the MBTI available on the Political Compass link, I thought, "Oh, Lord, not this too!" I worked several years in a company that used Myers-Briggs extensively and I am weary of it. Here are my complaints:
(1) While I admit that there is some value to such tests -- I would say in terms of one's personal growth and self-knowledge (and, since these are often administered in the workplace, they can help with professional growth as well) -- this is not how I have seen Myers-Briggs used. It is used for "team building" in many corporate environments. Now, I have done team building interventions [not MBTI-based ones], having spent the last decade in the corporate training/performance improvement biz. But I don't think you improve the performance of a group by giving them four-letter handles with which to stereotype one another. OK, I overstated that a bit. It does help somewhat to see where, say, an ENFJ could potentially lock horns with a colleague who was an INTP [and I worked in banking, where there were INTPs coming out of the woodwork]. Aside from helping people "get along better" on a pretty superficial level, the Myers-Briggs doesn't do squat to improve a team's job performance, yet this is how it's being used.
(2) It's attained almost cult proportions. There's a whole industry out there that manufactures MBTI "stuff". I've seen vendors displays at training conferences, booths piled high with coffee mugs that proclaim "ENTJ" and cute little plaques to hang in your cubicle to show the world you're an ISTP. Good grief!
(3)There are instruments that give individuals more in-depth, insightful information, IMHO, such as the Birkman analysis. But they are more expensive, take longer, are more complex.And that makes them a tougher sell for companies that want an intervention that's quick, cheap, and easily explained.
OK, now I feel better.
-- Mamacita, ENFJ (there aren't many of us)
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Logician, I dare you to find a single piece of psychology that can be considered as hard science - without involving samples of hundreds.
You can take a look at my CV (link available on PM request) for some nice studies (well I think so) with about 30 or 40 subjects with very interesting effects. If the effect is big enough you can do replicable studies with fairly small numbers.
Myers-Briggs however has been used on hundreds of people and fails two major tests that psychometric instruments need to pass before they are any use:
It is not reliable - it is supposed to be a personality test, not a "current mood state test", yet the same person can take it a week apart and get completely different results. Personality doesn't change that fast.
It is not valid - it does not predict behaviour or circumstances in real life - so it's no use as a job performance predictor, or a social-dynamics predictor, or anything else.
In other words it's about as much use as your star sign or the bumps on your head for such purposes. Probably best used as a parlour game. I won't participate even in parlour game uses of it, though, because I feel its inherent untruthfulness is unchristian.
Other psychometric tests ARE valid and reliable and DO predict job performance, future behaviour etc.
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Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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auntbeast
Shipmate
# 377
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Posted
Weeee, other people who don't like the Myers-Briggs Yippeee.
The only thing I have ever managed to figure out from the M-B is that I suffer from multiple personality Disorder. I clock in as something different every time. It has created some interesting discussions among people of their styles but that is where its usefullness ends IMO. Apparently you can now M-B your whole life... prayer styles for each type, communication styles, jobs etc etc etc.
As for other psychometrics, there are some very good ones, which are very helpful when administered by competent clinicians. We use them frequently in our court assessments at work and find them invaluable.. however it will be a cold day in hell when any of our doctors gets up and says "you honour, based on the Meyers Briggs test the accused should be dealt with in the following manner".
Back to the parlour with it I say.
Cheers,
Auntbeast
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"My vices are the children of a forced solitude that I abhor; and my virtues will necessarily arise when I live in communion with an equal" - Mary Shelley (Frankenstein)
Posts: 820 | From: Vancouver, Canada | Registered: Jun 2001
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JimT
Ship'th Mythtic
# 142
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Posted
Logician, you are "INTJ."
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001
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Katie H. L.
Shipmate
# 1996
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Posted
I've taken the test lots of times, and have always felt that almost every answer was either "well...it depends really..." or something of that ilk. It's always seemed ridiculous to me.
The only thing that does seem right to me is that when the test was given to a bunch of librarians, almost all of us came out "I!"
Katie
(INFP, and really an excellent love interest)
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Katie L. just using her middle initial for a while.
Posts: 606 | From: San Francisco, USA | Registered: Dec 2001
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JimT
Ship'th Mythtic
# 142
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Posted
Ha! There you go, Logician! An INFP "Crusader" like Joan of Arc, whose handle is "Zealous Convert." And show me an extroverted librarian while you're at it!
Thank you Zealous!
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001
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anglicanrascal
Shipmate
# 3412
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zealous Convert:
(INFP, and really an excellent love interest)
INFPs in fact are the best love interests that there are ... well, that's the way it is in my internal private world, anyway. Feel happy to disagree with this if you want to and it will make you feel better. You are probably right in your own way.
Posts: 3186 | From: Diocese of Litigalia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
I've done the Myers-Briggs test several times now, and while if I'm honest, I always come out at the scary extreme end of ENFP, I've found it really, really easy to cheat. You can come out of it with any result you want, really.
Which is good news for job interviews. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
The Milkman of Human Kindness - you must be my twin sister/ brother.... I too am extremely ENFP. I kind of liked it though , cause i can now blame my procrastinating inability to actually start or finish anything (being a 'visionary.....') on my personality?!
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Astro
Shipmate
# 84
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Posted
Whenever I've taken it I've always come out slightly differently so I am probably unclassifyable
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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)
Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001
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Quidnunk
Shipmate
# 2901
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Posted
I think RooKs has a point in Myers-Briggs sometimes being useful as a starting point. I know it helped my sister and brother-in-law to understand where the other was coming from in discussions and decision making, but it doesn't allow for bad days or any sort of outside influences that effect the way we are but aren't intrinsic to who we are.
Posts: 152 | From: Nam | Registered: Jun 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
I've alwways thought it an entertaining starting point for discussion of how different people operate, so in a way a bit of a parlor game. I wouldn't bet my love life or my career on such a thing. That doesn't mean it's entirely useless.
Laura
(INTJ)
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Warrior Tortoise
Shipmate
# 2682
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Posted
I have don MB 3 times now and come out as an ENFP each time (and scarily quite high results too, is that part of the ENFP personality??)
Anyway I've also done it as a prayer/worship type and again I came out ENFP. Very odd. But bizarrely the suggestions were to pray in a quiet way, which is the opposite "natural" response for an ENFP (or so I was lead to believe).
I always thought that if I met someone who was my total opposite (ISTJ) I would realy hate them. It actually turned out to be one of my good friends.
I was told when I first did the test that it wasn't "allowed" to be used in job interviews. You could do it with candidates, but the final selection choice should not be based on the outcome.
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"Inconceivable!" You use that word a lot, I do not think it means what you think it means. - The Princess Bride
Posts: 82 | From: the pit of despair | Registered: Apr 2002
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
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Posted
Hmm, the first time I took the test I was ENTP, and all subsequent tests show me as ENXP (meaning I scored equally on the N and F portions.)
I've used the MBTI as nothing more than a tool to see how I process information and relate with people, and see how they relate with me. I'm not a psychologist, so I have no idea of the "worthiness" of the MBTI, but I found it both amusing and an aid in helping me understand myself and others. For example, it helped me understand I wasn't "wrong" because I like my options open rather than closed, and that the "NT" facet of my personality didn't mean I was some robot, but just someone very logical at times.
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
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Nanny Ogg
Ship's cushion
# 1176
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Posted
Errr...
Can add my name to the growing list of ENFPs on the Ship? ![[Embarrassed]](icon_redface.gif)
Apparently we are not a common group - but I know of at least 5 and all of those have been at the church I go to ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
No wonder we never seem to manage to get anything done - but then again we need a few more practical people rather than intuitive dreamers ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Buy me a beer and I'm you friend forever
Posts: 4137 | From: Away with the fairies | Registered: Aug 2001
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
just thought that Id add that I married my complete opposite - ISFJ!!!!!!
Its working ok so far.....
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
Well you've all managed to prove both of my points - Myers-Briggs doesn't give the same result twice for a large number of people, and it doesn't predict behaviour or relationships at all well!
I don't like it as I've said, even as a parlour game, because of its inherent untruthfulness
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Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kenwritez:
I was ENTP
Yes! Another ENTP! I thought I was the only one. We should form a club. Maybe get our own section on the Ship... ![[Love]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
Happy to double post, I just want to agree with all of the above.
In a previous job we all were forced to take the MB and had fun comparing our scores and qualities. We "P"s noticed that we needed "J"s, who are generally mean and judgmental people (which I'm sure I need not point out to anyone), in order to function. Without "J"s around we just got all mushy and were unable to do the job right.
On a particular occasion, a young woman and I were flubbing up a particular project, and she summed it up by confiding in me, "Well, I'm just afraid that my "P"ness is showing."
I tried not to look, but I just couldn't help myself. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
good grief, people are taking this seriously!
If you want to rain down hearts on each other because of a completely rubbish test, maybe it should be done in Heaven.
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Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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WorkInProgress
Shipmate
# 3597
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Posted
I covered Myers-Briggs a while ago in my course then, and again just recently (different course). Both times it was used as an example of a 'bad' psychometric test. The first time I didn't understand why this was the case and the tutor didn't bother to explain. However, I went to a party (we were lead to believe it would be, any peg) in September. The woman who had volunteered to 'do the serious bit' (in our host's own words) decided to start by making us all complete the test. Three of the 'party-goers' had done the test previously. I didn't admit it, one gave the 'got the same results' answer and the other gave the 'can't quite remember...' answer. Not sure, but I think we all lied (shock - horror - Christian party where people lie!) - I know I did. Point being, most people at this party didn't really want to stay on and play a naice game of 'Therapy'. Although I understand the party got better when the game got going, I made excuses and left. Quickly. With a friend, who also could not decide who she was most embarrassed for - the host/s, the speaker or the rest of the group.
Any peg. I agree, Chukovsky - not even as a parlour game.
(I seem to recall both our host and her husband being rather desparate to take myself and the friend to where we were going, even though we could have walked...)
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Madkaren reckons I should quit lurking and start posting...
Posts: 349 | From: The middle of the road... | Registered: Nov 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Didn't we just do this a few months ago??? What MBti score repeats things?
Moving on....understanding personality types can be useful but...stereotyping them is dangerous. The current fad usage of the MBti will end when HR people realise the limitations and, more importantly, realise how much money all this useless testing is costing them.
I look forward to the day when the ultra righteous conservatives start complaining about Myers-Brigg and its relationship to Harry Potter.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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coffee jim
Shipmate
# 3510
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Posted
I'm INFP (but not extremely - pretty borderline on the T-P axis). What's all this crap about us being 'bad love interests' (bizarre wording, I know)?
The test was dumped on us during my year at the Corrymeela Community by a psychologist/RC priest. The actual test was carried out in a 'schoolroom' atmosphere, which didn't bring out the best in everyone (especially me). The 'unveiling' of our results was good fun, I suppose; and the ISTP profile fitted our maintenance guy to a T. When the said priest went on a Jungian tangent about our Shadows, what the handout said about mine made quite a bit of sense.
I wasn't best pleased (well, I became rather paranoid) when I found our types (inaccurately) recorded on the wall of the main meeting room.
Purely for decorative purposes - no one had the motivation or time to allocate us to work with specific groups on the basis of our results. The idea of an employer actually doing this chills me.
Posts: 367 | From: Belfast | Registered: Nov 2002
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coffee jim
Shipmate
# 3510
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Posted
P.S. That bit where we had to give a preference for words - without taking into account the sound or look of the word - was just stupid.
Posts: 367 | From: Belfast | Registered: Nov 2002
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maleveque
Shipmate
# 132
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
Ha! There you go, Logician! An INFP "Crusader" like Joan of Arc, whose handle is "Zealous Convert." And show me an extroverted librarian while you're at it!
Thank you Zealous!
I resemble that remark! As one of the half-dozen or so extroverted librarians in the United States, I feel I must object to such rank stereotyping!
Chukovsky - thanks for your analysis of MB. I told my mom (who loves the stuff) that I thought it was as valid as a horoscope, and her reply was "that's just what an ENTJ would say." Guess that's my j-ness showing.
Anne L.
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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.
Posts: 1496 | From: Washington, DC or thereabouts | Registered: May 2001
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Lioba
Shipmate
# 42
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
snip, snip, snip
-- Mamacita, ENFJ (there aren't many of us)
I'm one as well. But I think it would be very easy to cheat if I wanted to. My results didn't surprise me at all and it's a nice coincidence that I'm a happy and successful teacher by profession.
I find those test rather amusing. What I find less amusing is if people take them seriously.
They can be a helpful tool if they are used with a grain of salt. We did a similar test within our team at work and it very much helped us to understand priorities, irritations, occupational needs etc. of each other (and ourselves!) much better. But I think the decisive factor was not the test as such but the lengthy discussions that followed.
Abo
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Conversion is a life-long process.
Posts: 502 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2001
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
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Posted
Well, the MBTI was useful to me in helping me understand some aspects of my personality, so I have some liking for it, but it's not as if the results of taking it are carved in stone or the MBTI itself has been handed down from God with thunder and lightning.
I don't know whether or not the MBTI is a useful psychological diagnostic (and I've heard from sources off-Ship that it is not) so I won't worry about it. I agree that using it during a job hiring process is pretty silly--how is it supposed to realistically benefit either the prospective employee or the employer?
I think it seems to work well as a sort of popular "rule of thumb" personality illustrator (for that particular moment) and in my experience with it, it is a tad more accurate than astrology or entrail reading (and certainly much, much easier to clean up after!) It allows the test taker to hear some explanations for aspects of his personality that he may not have heard before, so he can consider them and see if they're accurate or not.
No, I don't take the test or its results as Gospel, nor do I use the test as a definitive lens through which I view other people and my interaction with them. Frankly, I don't give a rip what anyone's MBTI type is. If I know someone's MBTI type, then I have, at the absolute best, an extremely general idea of a few facets of their personality.
(ENTPs rock, tho. Yeah, Freddy! ) ![[Not worthy!]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
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ptarmigan
Shipmate
# 138
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Posted
I once came out ISTJ and two years later ENFP.
It is drivel.
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All shall be well. And all shall be well. And all manner of things shall be well. (Julian of Norwich)
Posts: 1080 | From: UK - Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
Go and share your MBTI scores in heaven and all those warm fuzzy thoughts.
Anyway I suspect Myers- Briggs is only one step ahead of star signs in accuracy with one difference Christians fall for it.
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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anglicanrascal
Shipmate
# 3412
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The one & only Nanny Ogg:
Errr...
Can add my name to the growing list of ENFPs on the Ship?
Ahh ENFPs.
So close, and yet so far!
Posts: 3186 | From: Diocese of Litigalia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Scarlet
Mellon Collie
# 1738
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Posted
For what it's worth, I'm an INFP.
I don't care a thing about being a love interest. I would run if I thought I was. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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They took from their surroundings what was needed... and made of it something more.
—dialogue from Primer
Posts: 4769 | Registered: Nov 2001
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Eanswyth
Ship's raven
# 3363
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Posted
You know what Jesus' MBTI was?
INRI
I crack myself up.
Posts: 1323 | From: San Diego | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ender's Shadow
Shipmate
# 2272
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Posted
It's a useful guide on the job front, though needs to be taken cautiously; I'm extremely well suited to being a computer programmer as an ISTJ, grinding the logic of situations into ever smaller pieces until they can be built into what we need, a task that would drive an ENFP nuts very very fast. And it has certainly been a major source of personal growth for me as I came to understand why other people react so differently from me. A particularly valuable issue was the S/N distinction; we did a mass assessment of my church, and found we relatively N as a congregation - which revealed why I found myself frustrated when on church council so often; they were talking vision and generalities - I was thinking specifics. A VERY valuable insight for me.
On the broader horizon, the reality of 'F' people in the world explains why logical analyses of situations actually don't work out; at some point the emotional component overwhelms the logic - a concept that a hardline 'T' struggles to allow for!
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Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Please don't refer to me as 'Ender' - the whole point of Ender's Shadow is that he isn't Ender.
Posts: 5018 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Feb 2002
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Assistant Village Idiot
Shipmate
# 3266
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Posted
quote:
Logician, I dare you to find a single piece of psychology that can be considered as hard science - without involving samples of hundreds.
Before I give my disagreements, Rook, let me acknowledge considerable agreement with that sentiment. For more ammunition, I recommend Robin Davies' House of Cards (I think I got that right).
If you include in psychiatry and neuropsychology, you find increasingly evidence-based fields. But even in psychology proper, there is good evidence for Cognitive-Behavioral techniques, and a fair bit of behaviorism. The MMPI is basically an empirical test. Given that even the hard sciences have an unfortunate softness in their publication, psychology is making its way along as an evidence-based field.
JimT -- An extroverted librarian? Uh, my wife. Her oldest friend. Her assistant. Her first boss. Her first trainee. I don't want to smack you around because you're a smart guy, but gee, you walked into that one.
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formerly Logician
Posts: 885 | From: New Hampshire, US | Registered: Sep 2002
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JimT
Ship'th Mythtic
# 142
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Posted
Of course there are extroverted librarians! Someone has to work the front desk and interact with the public. I was baiting you with a trick question. I am an ENTP (very borderline T my ENFP brethren and sistren), so I have an answer for everything, can change tactics in mid sentence, and weasle into a winning position every time.
Now tell me you are not an 'INTJ.' You left that out didn't you? Thought you had me on the librarian thing. Bring it on buddy, I like you well enough to have a Hellish fight with you. I'll buy you a drink when it's all over, but first I've got to kick your ass.
Moving right along, why are there almost no 'S' people around here? Almost everyone is an 'N.' Isn't it true that 'N' is only 1/4 of the US population? This is not random, it is statistically significant! We would expect 'N' for a religious site, and we get exactly that in disproportionate numbers. And you are an N!
Moving right along, we have an equal split of 'T' and 'F.' The 'T' people, like you and me, are always stressing logic and principles and the 'F' people think we're a little arrogant sometimes and too impressed with our reasoning ability. We expect the Ship to follow half and half on this, just like the general population, and we get a mix of systematic theologians and "go with your heart" truth seekers. And you are a T!
Then there are the 'P's and the 'J's. I'd say we have a few more 'P's and bet it is statistically different from the general population. I'd expect a few more 'P's because this is an 'open-minded debate' style board. But 'J's who like to argue their point do stick around, taking strong positions. The 'P's twist things around from all angles. And you are a J!
Of course people can lie and come out any way they like, especially once they've taken the test. Of course some people have weak preferences and come out different on different days. They don't understand themselves. Give me a couple of days, let me ask them anything I want, do not tell them I am evaluating them, and I will guess them better than an astrologist can guess their sign I assure you of that!
Now. A really diabolical therapist like you with a bug up his ass about this test probably can't even take it honestly. So if you have not come out INTJ it's not because you aren't; it's just that you need me as a disinterested expert to tell you what's going on. I really like this argument because it means I can't be wrong. Fellow ENTPs take note of this tactic!
The test can't tell you if a person's crazy and it can't tell you exactly what job they will want or be good at, but it does tell you about how they make decisions, analyze ambiguous situations, and most of all argue with other people when conflicts arise.
Now, tell me why you called it a "Parlor Game." And please summarize "House of Cards" because I don't have time to read it.
Look deep inside yourself and realize that you are INTJ.
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
...Now, tell me why you called it a "Parlor Game."...
I can't speak for Logician, but I call it that, too. Aside from the fact that one generally gets different results at different times and in different moods, I object to the fact that one gets the label -- the pigeonhole -- regardless of one's actual numeric score. One can be at the very top or the very bottom for a given category, and the letters come out the same.
Furthermore, Jung himself admitted that it wasn't scientific, and that he'd based his study on an extremely limited sample of individuals.
Along with the apt comparisons to astrology and phrenology, I would point out that it also resembles the Japanese fashion for assigning personality traits by blood type.
A truly frightening report from an online friend notes that most people at her church have their MB "types" on their name tags! Pseudoscience of that sort is as bad as regular superstition.
Finally, my dear mother is an extroverted librarian. And the only times she's ever worked the front desk is when they were short-handed.
Rossweisse // who walked out on the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (given to all freshmen) because my feelings about the possibilities of demons cannot be summed up in a simple "yes" or "no" -- and any test-maker who obsesses that much about fecal matter is FAR sicker than I could ever be
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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JimT
Ship'th Mythtic
# 142
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Posted
INFP. Textbook. Classic.
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally bandied about by logician:
If you include in psychiatry and neuropsychology, you find increasingly evidence-based fields. But even in psychology proper, there is good evidence for Cognitive-Behavioral techniques, and a fair bit of behaviorism. The MMPI is basically an empirical test. Given that even the hard sciences have an unfortunate softness in their publication, psychology is making its way along as an evidence-based field.
I must confess, my actual knowledge of psychology is extremely limited. Mostly I was baiting a particular stalker of mine that is a doctoral student of psychology, specializing in cognitive-behavioural evaluation. She's threatened me with the MMPI, but I suspect she'll save that for when I propose.
I'm hoping she loves my insanity as much as all of you seem to.
Now, now, stop adoring me all at once like that.
By the way,
[TRANSMOGRIFY INTO A HOST-BEAST]
Nightlamp's assertion that the proper place for joyfully comparing neuroses is Heaven makes sense to me. When I check back tomorrow, if some other Hell-host hasn't already killed or punted this thread, I will.
[/HOST MODE]
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
INFP. Textbook. Classic.
Guys, you can't close this thread. Not with the baiting that's going on.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ham'n'Eggs
Ship's Pig
# 629
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Posted
I am amazed that this shite has never ended up in Dead Horses.
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"...the heresies that men do leave / Are hated most of those they did deceive" - Will S
Posts: 3103 | From: Genghis Khan's sleep depot | Registered: Jun 2001
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
Me too, but last time I asked that about something I was told "You don't have to read the stuff".
Maybe it's just my overdeveloped sense of responsibility that leads me to want to save my fellow shipmates from something that is, as logician said, worse than astrology - just as little value but people actually fall for it.
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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.
Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
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Posted
On MBTI I come out strongly Introvert.
On another test chukovsky posted a link to some time back, which had sub categories of traits, I came out very extrovert in general, but anti social.
It's not that I'm scared of humans, I just don't like them much. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
TME
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Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
INFP. Textbook. Classic.
Are you speaking to me?
Nope. Try again.
Rossweisse // and tell me my star sign and blood type while you're at it
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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